"Views on Atonement for Sin."

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It is like we are a family linked on this forum, but if nothing changes, we will all be going separated ways forever. Jesus asked his disciples, "Who do people say I the son of man am?" People were calling Jesus Elijah the prophet and John the Baptist. Jesus asked his disciples, "Who do you say I am?" Peter called out, "You are the Christ the Son of the living God." Jesus said, "Blessed are you Simon Peter flesh and blood did not reveal this to you. It was shown to you from above." If you ask me about atonement, I would tell you that only the perfection of God is good enough to make it to paradise. We need to be atoned for with someone who is perfect. Nothing, but what God has provided is perfect for our redemption. He provided himself through Christ!
 
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Christians see that God requires the payment of inocent blood to atone for sin. This "payment" was made at Calvary and is now a free gift for the asking.

Muslims ask for and have the expectation of forgiveness of sin directly from Allah without an atoning sacrifice. We believe that as long as we do not ascribe partners with Him that He is willing and able to forgive any other sin straight away.
 
MustafaMc said:
Christians see that God requires the payment of inocent blood to atone for sin. This "payment" was made at Calvary and is now a free gift for the asking.

Muslims ask for and have the expectation of forgiveness of sin directly from Allah without an atoning sacrifice. We believe that as long as we do not ascribe partners with Him that He is willing and able to forgive any other sin straight away.
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Yes, innocent blood, but it is only Jesus' blood that is innocent. All others, people, apostels and prophets through the millenniums of time up till now are not innocent of sin. Guilty blood cannot pay for sin. Remember God is merciful but He is also just. His mercy to us is Christ and only Christ.
 
alapiana1 said:
Yes, innocent blood, but it is only Jesus' blood that is innocent. All others, people, apostels and prophets through the millenniums of time up till now are not innocent of sin. Guilty blood cannot pay for sin. Remember God is merciful but He is also just. His mercy to us is Christ and only Christ.
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His mercy to us is Christ and only Christ.

To me that is saying that Allah(swt) is powerless to forgive sin and Jesus(as) alone has that power, making Jesus separate from God(swt) and more powerful in granting Mercy.
 
Woodrow said:
His mercy to us is Christ and only Christ.

To me that is saying that Allah(swt) is powerless to forgive sin and Jesus(as) alone has that power, making Jesus separate from God(swt) and more powerful in granting Mercy.
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What Alapiana is describing is not about the power of God but the economy of God. God, the one being who exists in three person, has determined within himself the means by which he would accomplish this, thus it is not a question of power or preimmenance, but of process. Who are we to judge the process that God might choose to use to save us, we who should not even question if he chose not to save us at all.
 
vpb said:
:( , here we go again, a loop
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Yep, I think we have validated that this is a topic we have no way to agree on. Let us move on to something else before the thread falls apart.

I can see no need for me to discuss or debate any concepts of the trinity any more. we have all seemed to come to the understanding that it is an area that we have no agreement on.
 
It must be a wierd and wonderful feeling to know what other person (who scurries away after posting) was meaning/thinking and be able to reply for them!
 
NoName55 said:
It must be a wierd and wonderful feeling to know what other person (who scurries away after posting) was meaning/thinking and be able to reply for them!
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Well, I understood what that post was trying to convey, and obviously Grace Seeker did as well. I decided not to respond because my psychic powers told me sarcastic posts would follow....too bad Grace Seeker didn't get that PM in time.
 
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it would be much more benifical for our time, to talk about Tawheed.
 
Start up a conversation then.
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We could, as long as we talk about basic things.Aqeedah is a delicate topic and have to be careful what we speak.
 
vpb said:
We could, as long as we talk about basic things.Aqeedah is a delicate topic and have to be careful what we speak.
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I have a suggestion. When you use non-English words like "Aqeedah" and "Tawheed," could you please put a parenthetical explanation after it, so all us English-only people can have an idea of what you're talking about?

I thought "Tawheed" referred to God's Oneness. If so, that is all part of the Trinity discussion, not a separate discussion.

I have no idea what "Aqeedah" is.
 
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Originally Posted by vpb
We could, as long as we talk about basic things.Aqeedah is a delicate topic and have to be careful what we speak.
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I have a suggestion. When you use non-English words like "Aqeedah" and "Tawheed," could you please put a parenthetical explanation after it, so all us English-only people can have an idea of what you're talking about?

I thought "Tawheed" referred to God's Oneness. If so, that is all part of the Trinity discussion, not a separate discussion.

I have no idea what "Aqeedah" is.
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Phil12123 said:
Originally Posted by NoName55
Aqeedah is belief
Tawheed is Oneness of God
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Isn't that what we've been talking about all along? How is either a new topic?
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I have no certainty as to what was being talked about, All I could see was arguments and threats. anyhow all I did now was to tell you the meaning of what you asked him/her.
 
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Woodrow said:
His mercy to us is Christ and only Christ.

To me that is saying that Allah(swt) is powerless to forgive sin and Jesus(as) alone has that power, making Jesus separate from God(swt) and more powerful in granting Mercy.
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God is anything but powerless. He is all-powerful. It is through Jesus God works. God made everything through him. And there was not anything made that was not made by him and for him whom we have to do with. God is not powerless to forgive sin it is just another work that he does through Jesus. If God chooses to forgive in this way, who are we to say He cannot or how can we expect to receive forgiveness if we don’t meet God on his terms? In order to reject this message, you come against all the authorities in the Bible which include prophets and apostles. If I ACCEPT this message, I only reject one apostle or prophet as beginning God’s messenger. If you want to go by logic, the odds are in my favor, but I don’t go by logic or lean to my understanding. I walk and live by faith. It is God who has shown me whom I have to do with - not another man. I hear from God for myself about what to believe. Jesus said, “Beware of false prophets.” If you haven’t heeded his advice, you can rest assure to fall victim to it. I speak from experience. It happened to me. I will now try every spirit to see if it is from God and not lean to my understanding. I will hear from God for myself. I believe that I can do that; therefore, I do.
 

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