"Views on Atonement for Sin."

[Redeemed]

Re: Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?

This deception of falsely being assured of salvation is what may mislead Muslims from the straight path they are on. Muslims be warned!

Muslims don't have eternal security. They don't know they are saved what difference does it make to be on the Islam's straight path as you call it if they are not guranteed or secured in their salvation? In other words, you could live as a good Muslim all your life and ALLAH MIGHT DECIED TO SEND YOU TO HELL. Since Christianity is based on the work of Christ, we are not depending on our works for salvation; nevertheless, we have good works, because we life by faith in him that died for us and rose ever making intercession. We have Jesus praying to Allah for us.

 

[vpb]

Muslims don't have eternal security. They don't know they are saved what difference does it make to be on the Islam's straight path as you call it if they are not guranteed or secured in their salvation. In other words, you could live as a good Muslim all your life and ALLAH MIGHT DECIED TO SEND YOU TO HELL. Since Christianity is based on the work of Christ, we are not depending on our works for salvation; nevertheless, we have good works because we life by faith in him that died for us and rose ever making intercession. We have Jesus praying to Allah for us.

hahah what a post. alapiana, sometimes I miss your posts. cuz they're just hilarious. haha

 

[MuhammadRizan]

Salam.

In other words, you could live as a good Muslim all your life and ALLAH MIGHT DECIED TO SEND YOU TO HELL

you just shot ur own foot, alapiana.

please do not pretend like u know what Allah want to do.

3:76. Yea, whoever fulfills his promise and guards (against evil)-- then surely Allah loves those who guard (against evil)

40: 3. The Forgiver of the faults and the Acceptor of repentance, Severe to punish, Lord of bounty; there is no god but He; to Him is the eventual coming

46:31. O our people! accept the Divine caller and believe in Him, He will forgive you of your faults and protect you from a painful punishment.

Allah promised us forgiveness..any doubt about this promise represents lack of faith..any demand of eternal security without doing anything is arrogance.

Arrogance is the cause Satan and his follower will going to Hell.

Read my sig...Look into the Mirror.

 

[Redeemed]

hahah what a post. alapiana, sometimes I miss your posts. cuz they're just hilarious. haha

I am not trying to be funny or hilarious.

 

[vpb]

I am not trying to be funny or hilarious.

I know, but when I read your posts about muslims, and check it with what Islam teaches, they become hilarious.

You are trying to make us muslims think "ohh, we have no security, let's pick christianity, we are safe there"

Do you really think after Allah swt guided us we would drop the guidance for something which would lead us to hellfire???

 

[Redeemed]

Salam.



you just shot ur own foot, alapiana.

please do not pretend like u know what Allah want to do.

3:76. Yea, whoever fulfills his promise and guards (against evil)-- then surely Allah loves those who guard (against evil)

40: 3. The Forgiver of the faults and the Acceptor of repentance, Severe to punish, Lord of bounty; there is no god but He; to Him is the eventual coming

46:31. O our people! accept the Divine caller and believe in Him, He will forgive you of your faults and protect you from a painful punishment.

Allah promised us forgiveness..any doubt about this promise represents lack of faith..any demand of eternal security without doing anything is arrogance.

Arrogance is the cause Satan and his follower will going to Hell.

Read my sig...Look into the Mirror.

I don't understand Y U say I shot myself in the foot. As I mentioned, men chose a religion, but Christians are chosen by Jesus Christ. I cannot convince you to become a Christian nor do I hope to make you my convert. Only if God draws you can you come to Christ for salvation. Then and only then can you choose. Those who choose to be Christians without being called of God are only nominal Christians or someone’s convert not Christ’s. They are the ones that most commonly revert to other religions.
What you call arrogance, I call confidence and security. My boasting is in the Lord not myself. The arrogance is actually coming from those who reject God's provision for salvation. It is like someone who is guilty of sin going in front of the judge with no defense attorney and expects to stand alone against a very powerful prosecuting adversary the devil and with you own heart condemning you. On that day, I will stand with boldness before God. Will you???:statisfie

 

[vpb]

I don't understand Y U say I shot myself in the foot. As I mentioned, men chose a religion, but Christians are chosen by Jesus Christ. I cannot convince you to become a Christian nor do I hope to make you my convert. Only if God draws you can you come to Christ for salvation. Then and only then can you choose. Those who choose to be Christians without being called of God are only nominal Christians or someone’s convert not Christ’s. They are the ones that most commonly revert to other religions.
What you call arrogance, I call confidence and security. My boasting is in the Lord not myself. The arrogance is actually coming from those who reject God's provision for salvation. It is like someone who is guilty of sin going in front of the judge with no defense attorney and expects to stand alone against a very powerful prosecuting the devil and with you own heart condemning you. On that day, I will stand with boldness before God. Will you???

Indeed powerful evangelical speech

 

[Redeemed]

Indeed powerful evangelical speech

That is why the devil fights the Christian message so hard. He does not want Muslims hearing it let alone living it. The opposition against Christianity is in modern days coming mainly from Muslims in the form of severe persecution. Like I shared before in Northern Nigeria (1992) where they went on a rampaged against Christians where two pastors were killed along with 300 laymen. The fanatics severed Pastor Selchun's hand. When it fell to the ground, he raised the other hand and sang, "He is Lord. He is risen from the dead and he is Lord Every Knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Look at what happened in 1986 in Pakistan circa. "When you catch the infidels beat them! Allah will be pleased,” Zahid said. The young men of his mosque waived sticks and iron bars in agreement combing the streets for Christians. Zahid had a proud heritage in Pakistan. His father and older brother were Muslim priests. To these Muslims, rejecting Mohammad or the Koran by being Christian is the highest form of blasphemy and calls for Sharia law. He led the attack and the young Christians ran for their lives and one dropped his Bible. Zahid said, "Burn them all," but he kept one to prove it wrong to other Muslims. He reports in his own words what happened to him: “I was reading the Bible, looking for contradictions I could use against the Christians' faith. All of a sudden, a great light appeared in my room. “Then the voice asked, ‘Zahid why do you persecute me?’ “I was scared. I didn’t know what to do. I thought I was dreaming. I asked who are you? “ I heard, ‘I am the way the truth and the life’ “ for the next three nights the light and voice returned. Finally, on the fourth night, I knelt down and I accepted Jesus as my SAVIOR.” Zahid told his family and they didn’t believe him. They had him arrested he was considered an apostate a traitor to Islam and a man of lies. He was locked up for two years. The guards beat him and pulled out his finger nails in order to break his faith; they even tied him to a ceiling fan by his hair to let him hang. Finally, he was sentenced to death by hanging. No one knows how, but an unexpected court release came through for him. He went to the Christians he once persecuted, and they didn’t trust him. He was, however, eventually accepted by them and changed his name to Larazus. This is a case in point of one who didn't choose to be Christian, but was chosen. It is written, "Many are called but few are chosen."

 

[vpb]

He reports in his own words what happened to him: “I was reading the Bible, looking for contradictions I could use against the Christians' faith. All of a sudden, a great light appeared in my room. “Then the voice asked, ‘Zahid why do you persecute me?’ “I was scared. I didn’t know what to do. I thought I was dreaming. I asked who are you? “ I heard, ‘I am the way the truth and the life’ “ for the next three nights the light and voice returned. Finally, on the fourth night, I knelt down and I accepted Jesus as my SAVIOR.” Zahid told his family and they didn’t believe him. They had him arrested he was considered an apostate a traitor to Islam and a man of lies. He was locked up for two years. The guards beat him and pulled out his finger nails in order to break his faith; they even tied him to a ceiling fan by his hair to let him hang. Finally, he was sentenced to death by hanging. No one knows how, but an unexpected court release came through for him. He went to the Christians he once persecuted, and they didn’t trust him. He was, however, eventually accepted by them and changed his name to Larazus. This is a case in point of one who didn't choose to be Christian, but was chosen. It is written, "Many are called but few are chosen."

wow. interesting.
but did he die?

 

[Woodrow]

That is why the devil fights the Christian message so hard. He does not want Muslims hearing it let alone living it. The opposition against Christianity is in modern days coming mainly from Muslims in the form of severe persecution. Like I shared before in Northern Nigeria (1992) where they went on a rampaged against Christians where two pastors were killed along with 300 laymen. The fanatics severed Pastor Selchun's hand. When it fell to the ground, he raised the other hand and sang, "He is Lord. He is risen from the dead and he is Lord Every Knee shall bow and tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Look at what happened in 1986 in Pakistan circa. "When you catch the infidels beat them! Allah will be pleased,” Zahid said. The young men of his mosque waived sticks and iron bars in agreement combing the streets for Christians. Zahid had a proud heritage in Pakistan. His father and older brother were Muslim priests. To these Muslims, rejecting Mohammad or the Koran by being Christian is the highest form of blasphemy and calls for Sharia law. He led the attack and the young Christians ran for their lives and one dropped his Bible. Zahid said, "Burn them all," but he kept one to prove it wrong to other Muslims. He reports in his own words what happened to him: “I was reading the Bible, looking for contradictions I could use against the Christians' faith. All of a sudden, a great light appeared in my room. “Then the voice asked, ‘Zahid why do you persecute me?’ “I was scared. I didn’t know what to do. I thought I was dreaming. I asked who are you? “ I heard, ‘I am the way the truth and the life’ “ for the next three nights the light and voice returned. Finally, on the fourth night, I knelt down and I accepted Jesus as my SAVIOR.” Zahid told his family and they didn’t believe him. They had him arrested he was considered an apostate a traitor to Islam and a man of lies. He was locked up for two years. The guards beat him and pulled out his finger nails in order to break his faith; they even tied him to a ceiling fan by his hair to let him hang. Finally, he was sentenced to death by hanging. No one knows how, but an unexpected court release came through for him. He went to the Christians he once persecuted, and they didn’t trust him. He was, however, eventually accepted by them and changed his name to Larazus. This is a case in point of one who didn't choose to be Christian, but was chosen. It is written, "Many are called but few are chosen."

There is little we can do for you except pray that you will see the truth before it is too late. We all sincerely hope that you will not go to the end of your life without ever walking on the path to heaven.

Allah(swt) calls those who will listen and lets those who refuse to know him face judgment with no hope.

 

[snakelegs]

alapiana,
why don't you go fish somewhere else? surely it must be at least beginning to dawn on you that you won't find any buyers here......

 

[vpb]

alapiana,
why don't you go fish somewhere else? surely it must be at least beginning to dawn on you that you won't find any buyers here......

lolllll, dude, whatever u say more for today, will destroy everything.

 

[Redeemed]

wow. interesting.
but did he die?

No, but he is constantly having to watch his back. It has happened to others where they didn't agree with the court and contracted out the assinations of individuals that held religious views that differed.

 

[vpb]

No, but he is constantly having to watch his back. It has happened to others where they didn't agree with the court and contracted out the assinations of individuals that held religious views that differed.

was it Jesus that visited him?

 

[MuhammadRizan]

Salam.

I don't understand Y U say I shot myself in the foot.

u said "Allah might decide"...duh!...why don't you said "Allah will send you to hell anyway"...Allah promised paradise to the faithful and righteous...why He should break his own promise?...i think u get this understanding coz god in the bible occasionally change his mind.

in the OT god says He will protect His messiah.
in the NT messiah must die for sin of world.
this happen eventhough Jesus(God Himself) pray to His father(which is Himself)
to be save.

I don't understand Y U say I shot myself in the foot. As I mentioned, men chose a religion, but Christians are chosen by Jesus Christ. I cannot convince you to become a Christian nor do I hope to make you my convert. Only if God draws you can you come to Christ for salvation. Then and only then can you choose. Those who choose to be Christians without being called of God are only nominal Christians or someone’s convert not Christ’s. They are the ones that most commonly revert to other religions.

i will tell this to those amateur missionary that keep bugging me during lunch time..thank u alapiana.

What you call arrogance, I call confidence and security.

it's arrogance no matter what kind of gymnastic trick u tried.

It is like someone who is guilty of sin going in front of the judge with no defense attorney and expects to stand alone against a very powerful prosecuting adversary the devil and with you own heart condemning you.

if i'm a sinful person any form of defense attorney will be useless because God is All Knowing, what's the point to defend myself anyway?

if i'm a righteous person, what's the point for me to prove that in front of All Knowing God?

On that day, I will stand with boldness before God. Will you???

if u a sinful (or even righteous person) and you still planning to "stand with boldness before God" the God which is actually already knew watever u do here on earth...:giggling: :giggling: :giggling: :happy: :happy:

and now ur telling me that's not arrogant and ur not trying to be funny?
why on earth i have so much problem to believe you?:giggling: :giggling:

about this Vision.

You will never know which is satan or which is Jesus...why?....Duhhh! coz u never see jesus or heard his voice.

this kind of trick is easy for satan..he just need to appeare with my face(i'm so handsome and have beard too) then said "behold! i'm Jesas,ur going to reject me????"

you expect civilized human to believe this...the time of physical miracle is over alapiana...now it's time for intellectual miracle...don't u read? most revert to islam because they studied Islam, ask question and reflect...no need for Muhammad or Allah came to us in form of vision...

u tell the world Jesus(God Himself)will come just to convince mere human?
it's another arrogance..

read my sig...look into the mirror...

 

[Redeemed]

was it Jesus that visited him?

Actually, his story is similar to that of the apostle Paul. Saul was a zealot bent on destroying all Christians. When he was on his way to Damascus, he was knocked off his horse and there was a bright light that blinded him and a voice spoke to him saying "Saul, Saul why do you persecute me?" Saul asked, "Who are you?" The answer he got was, "I am Jesus whom you persecute." Zahid's conversion was like Paul's. He didn't see Jesus, but he spoke and the Muslim heard and obeyed the heavenly vision with a great price. It is painful to be ostracized by your family and friends imprisoned and tortured than rejected by Christians for a time. He had nothing but him and God with no one believing him and having to look behind his back in hiding for his life. But that is what happened to Jesus. He came unto his own, but his own received him not, but as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the children (sons) of God. Here is another recorded incident in 1992 in Pakistan. The judge looked at Sajjad Husain, who was the only witness against the Christian Gul Masih. No one could confirm that Gul had defamed Mohammad. The judge looked at Gul Masih the Christian and said, “I have no reason not to believe this witness against you.” He was sentenced to death by hanging. Christians prayed and encouraged him and wrote letters to the Pakistani Ambassadors saying we are aware of the unproven and unjust sentence of Gul Maish and two other Pakistani Christians. This law is being used as a weapon against Christians from jealous people who make up lies to destroy them. Twelve other Pakistani Christians have been accused by blasphemy laws. Five out of the twelve were acquitted only to later be found illegally murdered by Muslim extremists. Many are still being accused. After three years imprison, Gul was released in 1994 of Nov. by the Lahore High Court, but his life remains threatened. Islamic fundamentalists outraged by the court’s decision issued a fatwa in Sarghode. Wanted posters were put out and threats shouted over the loud speaker from the local mosques. He, too, fears in hiding for his life.:rollseyes

 

[vpb]

Actually, his story is similar to that of the apostle Paul. Saul was a zealot bent on destroying all Christians. When he was on his way to Damascus, he was knocked off his horse and there was a bright light that blinded him and a voice spoke to him saying "Saul, Saul why do you persecute me?" Saul asked, "Who are you?" The answer he got was, "I am Jesus whom you persecute." Zahid's conversion was like Paul's. He didn't see Jesus, but he spoke and the Muslim heard and obeyed the heavenly vision with a great price. It is painful to be ostracized by your family and friends imprisoned and tortured than rejected by Christians for a time. He had nothing but him and God with no one believing him and having to look behind his back in hiding for his life. But that is what happened to Jesus. He came unto his own, but his own received him not, but as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the children (sons) of God. Here is another recorded incident in 1992 in Pakistan. The judge looked at Sajjad Husain, who was the only witness against the Christian Gul Masih. No one could confirm that Gul had defamed Mohammad. The judge looked at Gul Masih the Christian and said, “I have no reason not to believe this witness against you.” He was sentenced to death by hanging. Christians prayed and encouraged him and wrote letters to the Pakistani Ambassadors saying we are aware of the unproven and unjust sentence of Gul Maish and two other Pakistani Christians. This law is being used as a weapon against Christians from jealous people who make up lies to destroy them. Twelve other Pakistani Christians have been accused by blasphemy laws. Five out of the twelve were acquitted only to later be found illegally murdered by Muslim extremists. Many are still being accused. After three years imprison, Gul was released in 1994 of Nov. by the Lahore High Court, but his life remains threatened. Islamic fundamentalists outraged by the court’s decision issued a fatwa in Sarghode. Wanted posters were put out and threats shouted over the loud speaker from the local mosques. He, too, fears in hiding for his life.

should I wait then, till the light appears to me? or does that happen only in Pakistan, if that is the case then do I have to go to live in Pakistan?

 

[Redeemed]

should I wait then, till the light appears to me? or does that happen only in Pakistan, if that is the case then do I have to go to live in Pakistan?

I think you know the answer to that. Since you believe that Jesus is still alive, why don't you ask him to show you what part He wants to play in your life? You have nothing to lose by asking him that. You aren't even going against the Koran. I know if you ask him sincerely you will be presented with a choice. That choice determines what religion you will hate and which you will love

 

[vpb]

I think you know the answer to that. Since you believe that Jesus is still alive, why don't you ask him to show you what part He wants to play in your life? You have nothing to lose by asking him that. You aren't even going against the Koran. I know if you ask him sincerely you will be presented with a choice. That choice determines what religion you will hate and which you will love

do you think that I would ever exchange something with

????

Nothing in this world is worthy of that black banner there.

 

[Redeemed]

do you think that I would ever exchange something with

????

Nothing in this world is worthy of that black banner there.

Yes, if you experience what Zahid or Paul did! What does the banner mean Allah is Great?