Voters Slam MP For Introducing Burqa Ban Proposal To UK Parliament

[Rabi'ya]

Hi Glo

Personally I have come across very few people who have a huge issue with covering. Most of the questions come from people who simply don't understand. I really feel that the "general public" need to know only a little before they realise the true picture which is that the majority of women in this country who choose to cover in fact do so by their own will and desire not because somebody else has forced them.

However, it would be naive of Muslims to claim that ALL Muslim women cover by their own choice. There are women in this country(and others) who are made to cover by other people and not necessarily through their own desire.

I feel that the people who have been misinformed about the Muslim women who choose to cover only need a simple explanation to understand the true picture.

 

[cat eyes]

well the way i see it if that was the case that a minority of muslimahs were getting forced to wear the burka i don't think any muslimah would tolerate that because its against islam to force some one to wear the veil and living in the west, the sister would probably move out of her parents home if that was the case if her family was to extreme or something.

 

[Rabi'ya]

cats eyes

Please tell me, how many Muslimahs you know who would be strong enough to move out simply if their parents asked them to do something which they weren't happy about. Islam guides us in many ways but when it comes to families there are a lot of other issues to consider. Its not simply a case of "up and leave". There are people who marry because their parents ask them to. They dont question, they just do. Again this is a small minority but I am making a point that it is naive of us to deny that it takes place at all. I think the ummah needs to acknowledge it before it changes. A ban on the burka will not solve the problem, it will just alienate the Muslim community more and will cause more people to wear a veil in support of those who wear it now, even though they themselves may not have chosen to wear it previously. Which kind of defeats the point of the ban.

 

[cat eyes]

cats eyes

Please tell me, how many Muslimahs you know who would be strong enough to move out simply if their parents asked them to do something which they weren't happy about. Islam guides us in many ways but when it comes to families there are a lot of other issues to consider. Its not simply a case of "up and leave". There are people who marry because their parents ask them to. They dont question, they just do. Again this is a small minority but I am making a point that it is naive of us to deny that it takes place at all. I think the ummah needs to acknowledge it before it changes. A ban on the burka will not solve the problem, it will just alienate the Muslim community more and will cause more people to wear a veil in support of those who wear it now, even though they themselves may not have chosen to wear it previously. Which kind of defeats the point of the ban.

what do you mean people should marry to please there parents?:hmm: you talking about forced marriage. this is not allowed in islam sister and its also not allowed to force your daughter to wear niqaab and yes she can disobey her parents and move out if she feels she is under pressure to do such things.

your making out islam is difficult. as i said there is a small minority of extremism

 

[tango92]

^ i think the point was its difficult due to economic and social pressures to just leave your family behind. in that sense you would have alot of pressure to obey your family cause theyre your only means of survival.

i know strong muslimahs like yourself may have the courage, but even I would feel a greater sense of loss having to leave my family and fending for myself before i was ready.

although i guess most reverts have already gone through something smilar when coming to islam.

 

[cat eyes]

^ i think the point was its difficult due to economic and social pressures to just leave your family behind. in that sense you would have alot of pressure to obey your family cause theyre your only means of survival.

i know strong muslimahs like yourself may have the courage, but even I would feel a greater sense of loss having to leave my family and fending for myself before i was ready.

although i guess most reverts have already gone through something smilar when coming to islam.

Yeah i know what you mean i might have been harsh but i just do not know why most people make out that you should stick living with your parents even in adult hood

we need to live our own life, we need to pay our own way. this is what my parents thought me anyway. you can still support and take care of them living in separate apartments. the scholars have agreed you can still fufil the rights of your parents, of course im not implying that you move hundreds of miles away lol

of course it might be difficult for a muslimah to move out of her house but actually some muslimahs are brave enough to do it because they want to live there own independent life yes? they don't want to live off there parents there whole life. in some cases where parents are extreme the only option for a happier atmosphere is to move out. nothing wrong with that at all. shes not disobeying her family by wanting to live her own independent life this is what i mean by when i say islam is not a difficult religion but people make it.

there is a lot of options available if she does not have a job, if your living in u.k ud certainly know this.

well i hope i didn't say anything to offend anyone and forgive me if i have but i'm just making a valid point

and its a little bit off topic sorry

 

[Ramadhan]

Despite from people assuming (rightly or wrongly) that some women are forced to cover up, what do you think about the general attitude that women should be permitted to cover up and that it is 'not the British way' to prevent them from doing so?
What about the suggestion that any women who may be forced to cover up (if that kind of thing does indeed take place) are enabled to leave the house whilst covering up, and that they would be prevented from leaving the house if the proposed law ever became valid?

Until western media change, in that they write and publish articles about Islam and muslims from the point of few of muslims, I cannot see how western people change their attitude towards this issue in particular and Islam in general. There are however, small fractions of westerners who on their own educate themselves about the matters, but as I said, the number is very small.

 

[dew of paradise]

i just do not know why most people make out that you should stick living with your parents even in adult hood
we need to live our own life, we need to pay our own way. this is what my parents thought me anyway. you can still support and take care of them living in separate apartments. the scholars have agreed you can still fufil the rights of your parents, of course im not implying that you move hundreds of miles away lol

of course it might be difficult for a muslimah to move out of her house but actually some muslimahs are brave enough to do it because they want to live there own independent life yes? they don't want to live off there parents there whole life. in some cases where parents are extreme the only option for a happier atmosphere is to move out. nothing wrong with that at all. shes not disobeying her family by wanting to live her own independent life this is what i mean by when i say islam is not a difficult religion but people make it.
well i hope i didn't say anything to offend anyone and forgive me if i have but i'm just making a valid point

I agree childrn should nt b forced in to marriges bt wt valid point u r making???did our mother felt hapines wen she carried us for 9months in her womb n felt sick?did she felt hapiness r she gave us birth so v can get our own appartment for tht day?she woke up all nite so v can hv good sleep bt wen v grow so v can hv our own place?ya u can liv away if u r marrid so u hv obligation on ur husband bt if nt wt if thy need water r medicine in nite so hw can v care for thm?hw can women liv alone wen there is so much fitnah n shaitan easy target is the person who is alone!!!v cannot say tht ohhh no fitnah will happen!!!!Islam builds a family in which prevails mutual respect and care. Parents and children in Islam are bound together by mutual obligations and reciprocal arrangements.Allah (SWT) Says “…No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child…” [Quran 2: 233]
"Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or more attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honor. And out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say, "my Lord! bestow on them Thy Mercy, even as they cherished me in childhood." (Quran 17: 23,24)
Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (A.S.), the great-great-grandson of the Prophet Muhammad is reported to have quoted Imam 'Ali (A.S.) that, "disobedience to parents is a major sin." He also stated that, "if a person looks at the face of his or her parents with wrathful eyes, despite the fact that injustice was done to him or her by the parents, his or her salah (prayer) will not be accepted by God."will u agree with scholar r Prophet pbuh hadith???
According to one of the Hadith-e-Qudsi, the following is reported about the status of parents:
"God has commanded that if anybody prays equal to the invocations performed by the prophets, such prayers will do no good if that person has been cursed by his or her parents."
Narrated 'Abdullah: I asked the Prophet "Which deed is the dearest to God?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents"...(Bukhari)
so which commandments do u follow nw??dnt mind sister i thnk u r revert n frm west u need bit knowledge b4 u post sumthing so plz it hurts person feelings whose parents r sick!!!i hope ths wont b harsh!!!!!!!

 

[syed_z]

Yeah i know what you mean i might have been harsh but i just do not know why most people make out that you should stick living with your parents even in adult hood

Salaam Hope your doing fine Sister Cat eyes, thanks for making your point... Dew paradise is right what said about parents... just to add on top of what she said...


When asked by some one that what are the rights of parents over their children.... Messenger of Allah (saw) said.. "They are Your Heaven and Hell." (Ibn Majah Hadith 3625)



There are 2 ways in regards to your parents, you either obey them and Earn paradise and disobey them and earn Fire..... we need to serve them and take care of them until they are pleased and if they are pleased then God is pleased... if God is pleased then every thing will be fine....


This is true that whenever the Topic of Parents is mentioned in the Quran, its always mentioned after the Importance of the Oneness of Allah (swt) i.e Tauhid ... letting us know and reminding us that if there is ANY one whom we should be careful of our duties to, after Allah (swt), is our Parents...


Just like the Verse mentioned by Sister...

(17:23)for thy Sustainer ordained that you shall worship none but Him. And do good to (thy) parents....


Since Allah (swt) is the Ultimate cause of our Existence on Earth, the Physical or Medium for that cause are our Parents.... without them there wouldn't be any of us here.... so we have to Respect and Love that Medium and by respecting and loving that Medium we respect Allah (swt) ...


The Western way of life, has definitely made an impact on Our Muslims lives, specially those who live in the West... that when You grow old, you can leave... this is being Selfish.. that when we needed them we lived with them, but as soon as we are Strong enough to take care of ourselves, we forget them! (Not trying to point towards you just in general)


The ONLY time we Disobey our parents is when they tell us to Associate any one or Anything in the Worship of Our Lord, Sustainer Allah (Swt)...


(29:8) We have enjoined upon man kindness to his parents, but if they exert pressure on you to associate with Me in My Divinity any that you do not know (to be My associate), do not obey them.


Because of the Above Verse and all other Verses of the Quran stressing on the point of duties to our parents, we are to even obey them if they are non believers... and we still do NOT disobey them if they have not believed in your Sustainer....

we need to live our own life, we need to pay our own way. this is what my parents thought me anyway. you can still support and take care of them living in separate apartments.

The reason why we stay with them is, because since this Life is nothing but a Test for each and every one of us, if we bear with Patience their Anger and their being difficult with us, we are shown Mercy by Allah (Swt) and choose Heaven over hell.... Allah (Swt) loves us to be with them and take care of them not only, BUT bear with patience whatever they say or do... rather pray for them....


(17:24) My Lord, show them (my parents) mercy just as they cared for me when i was a little child.


you would pray this when you are able to see them at all times in the same house where you live, and not when you are few miles away.....


Also the part of wearing a Hijab is part of Islam, thats fine if you may not agree, as we all make our own choices, but if Parents say so and keep informing you to do it... remember that it is NOT their Order, but the Order of Allah (Swt) that they convey to you, since you Believe and Worship that same Lord...

 

[Rabi'ya]

what do you mean people should marry to please there parents?:hmm: you talking about forced marriage. this is not allowed in islam sister and its also not allowed to force your daughter to wear niqaab and yes she can disobey her parents and move out if she feels she is under pressure to do such things.

your making out islam is difficult. as i said there is a small minority of extremism

I wasnt saying whether people should or shouldnt do it. that wasnt the question. merely that it does take place. Personally, it is wrong and Islam says its wrong. but it does happen. parents can put a lot of psychological pressure on girls. and girls may feel that there are no other options. regardless of how "independant" the girl is. And believe you me, leaving family behind and not having a mahram can shut more doors than it opens. No matter how strong the girl is, we all need family. living a life without any kind of support from kin can cause many problems.

 

[Rabi'ya]

so which commandments do u follow nw??dnt mind sister i thnk u r revert n frm west u need bit knowledge b4 u post sumthing so plz it hurts person feelings whose parents r sick!!!i hope ths wont b harsh!!!!!!!

revert or not this attitude, i feel, is not the right way to approach the subject.

PS I am a revert - i dont know is cat eyes is

 

[cat eyes]

I agree childrn should nt b forced in to marriges bt wt valid point u r making???did our mother felt hapines wen she carried us for 9months in her womb n felt sick?did she felt hapiness r she gave us birth so v can get our own appartment for tht day?she woke up all nite so v can hv good sleep bt wen v grow so v can hv our own place?ya u can liv away if u r marrid so u hv obligation on ur husband bt if nt wt if thy need water r medicine in nite so hw can v care for thm?hw can women liv alone wen there is so much fitnah n shaitan easy target is the person who is alone!!!v cannot say tht ohhh no fitnah will happen!!!!Islam builds a family in which prevails mutual respect and care. Parents and children in Islam are bound together by mutual obligations and reciprocal arrangements.Allah (SWT) Says “…No mother should be harmed through her child, and no father through his child…” [Quran 2: 233]
"Thy Lord hath decreed that ye worship none but Him, and that ye be kind to parents. Whether one or more attain old age in thy life, say not to them a word of contempt, nor repel them, but address them in terms of honor. And out of kindness, lower to them the wing of humility, and say, "my Lord! bestow on them Thy Mercy, even as they cherished me in childhood." (Quran 17: 23,24)
Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq (A.S.), the great-great-grandson of the Prophet Muhammad is reported to have quoted Imam 'Ali (A.S.) that, "disobedience to parents is a major sin." He also stated that, "if a person looks at the face of his or her parents with wrathful eyes, despite the fact that injustice was done to him or her by the parents, his or her salah (prayer) will not be accepted by God."will u agree with scholar r Prophet pbuh hadith???
According to one of the Hadith-e-Qudsi, the following is reported about the status of parents:
"God has commanded that if anybody prays equal to the invocations performed by the prophets, such prayers will do no good if that person has been cursed by his or her parents."
Narrated 'Abdullah: I asked the Prophet "Which deed is the dearest to God?" He replied, "To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times." I asked, "What is the next (in goodness)?" He replied, "To be good and dutiful to your parents"...(Bukhari)
so which commandments do u follow nw??dnt mind sister i thnk u r revert n frm west u need bit knowledge b4 u post sumthing so plz it hurts person feelings whose parents r sick!!!i hope ths wont b harsh!!!!!!!

have you got anger issues ? please get checked out


also if you really have a problem with ''western reverts'' don't come to this forum. we don't accept racism here.

 

[cat eyes]

Salaam Hope your doing fine Sister Cat eyes, thanks for making your point... Dew paradise is right what said about parents... just to add on top of what she said...


When asked by some one that what are the rights of parents over their children.... Messenger of Allah (saw) said.. "They are Your Heaven and Hell." (Ibn Majah Hadith 3625)



There are 2 ways in regards to your parents, you either obey them and Earn paradise and disobey them and earn Fire..... we need to serve them and take care of them until they are pleased and if they are pleased then God is pleased... if God is pleased then every thing will be fine....


This is true that whenever the Topic of Parents is mentioned in the Quran, its always mentioned after the Importance of the Oneness of Allah (swt) i.e Tauhid ... letting us know and reminding us that if there is ANY one whom we should be careful of our duties to, after Allah (swt), is our Parents...


Just like the Verse mentioned by Sister...

(17:23)for thy Sustainer ordained that you shall worship none but Him. And do good to (thy) parents....


Since Allah (swt) is the Ultimate cause of our Existence on Earth, the Physical or Medium for that cause are our Parents.... without them there wouldn't be any of us here.... so we have to Respect and Love that Medium and by respecting and loving that Medium we respect Allah (swt) ...


The Western way of life, has definitely made an impact on Our Muslims lives, specially those who live in the West... that when You grow old, you can leave... this is being Selfish.. that when we needed them we lived with them, but as soon as we are Strong enough to take care of ourselves, we forget them! (Not trying to point towards you just in general)


The ONLY time we Disobey our parents is when they tell us to Associate any one or Anything in the Worship of Our Lord, Sustainer Allah (Swt)...


(29:8) We have enjoined upon man kindness to his parents, but if they exert pressure on you to associate with Me in My Divinity any that you do not know (to be My associate), do not obey them.


Because of the Above Verse and all other Verses of the Quran stressing on the point of duties to our parents, we are to even obey them if they are non believers... and we still do NOT disobey them if they have not believed in your Sustainer....




The reason why we stay with them is, because since this Life is nothing but a Test for each and every one of us, if we bear with Patience their Anger and their being difficult with us, we are shown Mercy by Allah (Swt) and choose Heaven over hell.... Allah (Swt) loves us to be with them and take care of them not only, BUT bear with patience whatever they say or do... rather pray for them....


(17:24) My Lord, show them (my parents) mercy just as they cared for me when i was a little child.


you would pray this when you are able to see them at all times in the same house where you live, and not when you are few miles away.....


Also the part of wearing a Hijab is part of Islam, thats fine if you may not agree, as we all make our own choices, but if Parents say so and keep informing you to do it... remember that it is NOT their Order, but the Order of Allah (Swt) that they convey to you, since you Believe and Worship that same Lord...

i think you didn't read my post, neither did dew of jannah. exactly where did i say you should disobey your parents? if you could actually point that part out then i will at least understand i did something wrong.

but i never said any such thing. a woman has to wear the niqaab for her own self not because the order of some one else. she has to do it for Allah first so she would be type of hypocrite in her heart going around pretending to be something shes not. women don't want to do that and there right.

now what i mean't is she'd have to move out for many reasons whether it be for studies or whether it be for marriage, it could be that she found a job and its in a different city. i bet half the members in this forum are not living with there parents even the members who quoted me so are you honestly trying to tell me that for a muslim to fufil the rights of there parents they have to be living with them? this is what you are saying.

brother i'm sorry but this is nonsense and until you can find me a fatwa to prove this i will accept i'm wrong

however it depends on your parents situation OF COURSE! if the parents are healthy then there shouldn't be a problem and no parent would ever stop there child from education or working even if it means moving at.

 

[cat eyes]

revert or not this attitude, i feel, is not the right way to approach the subject.

PS I am a revert - i dont know is cat eyes is

i think i must have misunderstood you sister.

yes i am a revert Alhamdulilah

 

[cat eyes]

I wasnt saying whether people should or shouldnt do it. that wasnt the question. merely that it does take place. Personally, it is wrong and Islam says its wrong. but it does happen. parents can put a lot of psychological pressure on girls. and girls may feel that there are no other options. regardless of how "independant" the girl is. And believe you me, leaving family behind and not having a mahram can shut more doors than it opens. No matter how strong the girl is, we all need family. living a life without any kind of support from kin can cause many problems.

i have heard of muslimahs living under there parents roof and doing all sorts of haraam even having boyfriends and majority of the time, the parents don't care or they either fool there parents into thinking they would never do anything of the sort.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

People need to start talking to each other in respectful manner otherwise don’t jump into the people’s conversation.

And we are getting off topic.

To add one point though, it all cool to obey your parents but we don’t obey them to the point we say “yes” to marriage we do not want. No means no in force marriages.

And we have to do things for the sake of Allah (swt) not for our parents. Rewards depend on our intentions.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

I'm sorry you feel that way. I was trying to emphasize that most people are tolerant and have no problem with women covering up ... even if they personally don't agree with it. It was meant to be a positive and encouraging post. :hmm:

I have to admit that I didn't read all articles in detail.
On closer reading there certainly does seem to be a perception that some Muslim women are forced to cover up.

Whilst I am sure that that isn't the case for the vast majority of muslimahs in this country, do people here think that there are perhaps some muslimahs who may indeed be forced to cover up?
Or do you think such stories are entirely fabricated by the media?

Despite from people assuming (rightly or wrongly) that some women are forced to cover up, what do you think about the general attitude that women should be permitted to cover up and that it is 'not the British way' to prevent them from doing so?
What about the suggestion that any women who may be forced to cover up (if that kind of thing does indeed take place) are enabled to leave the house whilst covering up, and that they would be prevented from leaving the house if the proposed law ever became valid?

Salaam

Hey,

Read my post before that, I generally agree that British people are tolerant. And even if it “few” women that are forced to wear it, it does not justify idiots claiming vast majority of them are forced without any proof. And no one will be able to prove that they are forced because “oppressed” women hardly report to the police and are unlikely to participate in a survey.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

salaam

I agree with you recently theres a serious vile attack on muslims and Islam on these comment sections in the Guardian and other newspapers. The telegraph is a conservative paper anyway but some of the comments on there are seriously disturbing.

peace

Salam

Actually I used to read the telegraph, even as a conservative paper it never used to be like this.

 

[syed_z]

i think you didn't read my post, neither did dew of jannah. exactly where did i say you should disobey your parents? if you could actually point that part out then i will at least understand i did something wrong.

but i never said any such thing. a woman has to wear the niqaab for her own self not because the order of some one else. she has to do it for Allah first so she would be type of hypocrite in her heart going around pretending to be something shes not. women don't want to do that and there right.

now what i mean't is she'd have to move out for many reasons whether it be for studies or whether it be for marriage, it could be that she found a job and its in a different city. i bet half the members in this forum are not living with there parents even the members who quoted me so are you honestly trying to tell me that for a muslim to fufil the rights of there parents they have to be living with them? this is what you are saying.

brother i'm sorry but this is nonsense and until you can find me a fatwa to prove this i will accept i'm wrong

however it depends on your parents situation OF COURSE! if the parents are healthy then there shouldn't be a problem and no parent would ever stop there child from education or working even if it means moving at.

Salaam... Sister... Hope Your doing fine

Never meant to argue with you or anything like that.... just helping a sister out... as we're all brothers and sisters in Islam... so i read when you said...

Yeah i know what you mean i might have been harsh but i just do not know why most people make out that you should stick living with your parents even in adult hood

...so all i was trying to do was explain the Importance of living with their parents, regardless whether they are old, healthy, weak, angry, very gentle etc... doesn't matter... whatever i posted from Quran and Hadith, was to show that Parents are to be with, for as long as them and we are alive.... and it does not matter even if we have reached adult hood..... we should stay with them.... UNLESS... like you said if we have to move out to study or marriage... etc...

For women when they marry, they move out from their parents and live with their Husband, i agree with you sister.... unless her husband is nice enough, and sees that parents have only this girl child, whom i married, and nobody is going to take care of them after i marry her, then i should invite them to stay with us.... that's just one case if it does happen that way....however girls always stay with their husbands ... no Doubt they leave their parents....

But sons, they take care of their parents when they are old.. and not leave them just because he has grown up in to an adult... ... about studying ... yes sisters and brothers, both are allowed to stay away for their parents if they have to leave for education.... no doubt about that... i never said that was wrong...


may be its just because you just mentioned adulthood, and not specifically mentioned Studies and Marriage, may be thats why i thought that your saying that if any Muslim/Muslimah reach adult hood its not important to live with their Parents.....

About studies and marriage i Agree with you sister

however, i disagree regarding just being 18 or 20 or more, and moving out like Western Way of life, people usually do... and because parents are old they need to move in to some retirement Home... thats sad and thats what i was referring to is AGAINST the teachings of Islam and Quran is very clear about it as i have mentioned Ayaat... don't need a Fatwa for it...


About Niqab, its NOT necessarry and Hijab is what i was referring to... that is VERY important for every woman to do, and if parents force their daughter to wear, they are forcing it for their Own good... while many sisters wont understand, but its for their own good.... about the Girl wearing in front of parents and then taking it off later on, she is responsible for her own act ... and basically that is a test from Allah, in which she would not be doing good...


i apologize since there was misunderstanding .... Salaam

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

Also, if it's illegal to cover face, say goodbye to any costume parties, use of full face helmets, sunglasses or, to the EDL's detriment, balaclavas.

I am sure the idiot wouldn’t mind that, his son not wearing mask for party.... Another reason why I think this idiot is targeting Muslims only.