war against islam or war on terrorism?

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We may see it different because we both live in different parts of the Western World. Here on this end I see Islam being very well tolerated and even exerted a lot of influnce in the areas of high Muslim presence. It is also extremely well accepted in Mexico. I believe Mexico will be predominatly Muslim in the foreseeable future.

I will admit there does seem to be some problems in Canada in the Toronto area. But Canada has a much smaller Muslim population.

The Muslim Population is quite large, however there are few Masjids and the existing ones are quite small. But, you will find many Muslims during prayer time in the larger cities praying in the open plazas and numerous parks.

Canada Mexico and The USA are the only Western Countries I have personaly been in within the past 5 years. It is based on what I have seen as my reason for saying I do not see any war on Islam. But, reading these threads it seems the situation in the UK is much different than here.

One must also clarify and distinguish between the people (be it individual, groups) within the society i.e. USA, and the people (be it individual groups) that are in authority or and their foreign policy i.e. their goals and intention in other parts of the world.

One of the resounding statement one will hear is we are bringing democracy to the world, we are fighting terrorism. How true that statement must sound to the lay person. Well you can Judge.

So what is apparent in front of one's eye from one's geographical sphere, the attitude of people around one, is not neccessarily inclusive to the intention of other people especially their intention in the other parts of the world. The manifestation of it is clear.

I do wan't to clarify this: if I do make statement mainly with certain emphasis on U.S or other western countries I am not exactly alluding to the general public within those geographic or what is going on within although this can give hints.
Nor I am trying to say something bad about the american or british people.

Oyeah One more thing to add, Don't think I am blaming all on west or something, but their is enough blame to go on about. However I am pointing to the current activities of the western countries on other parts of the world.
 
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We may see it different because we both live in different parts of the Western World. Here on this end I see Islam being very well tolerated and even exerted a lot of influnce in the areas of high Muslim presence. It is also extremely well accepted in Mexico. I believe Mexico will be predominatly Muslim in the foreseeable future.

I will admit there does seem to be some problems in Canada in the Toronto area. But Canada has a much smaller Muslim population.

The Muslim Population is quite large, however there are few Masjids and the existing ones are quite small. But, you will find many Muslims during prayer time in the larger cities praying in the open plazas and numerous parks.

Canada Mexico and The USA are the only Western Countries I have personaly been in within the past 5 years. It is based on what I have seen as my reason for saying I do not see any war on Islam. But, reading these threads it seems the situation in the UK is much different than here.

Mexico predominatly Muslim? I don't buy that for a minute. The Catholic tradition in Mexico and Latin America is old and a huge part of the culture down there. I think some Muslims need to settle down with this idea they have that Islam is somehow going to dominate everything. Yes, many Muslims are immigrating to the U.S. and elsewhere, that doesn't equate to some Muslim takeover.
 
Mexico predominatly Muslim? I don't buy that for a minute. The Catholic tradition in Mexico and Latin America is old and a huge part of the culture down there. I think some Muslims need to settle down with this idea they have that Islam is somehow going to dominate everything. Yes, many Muslims are immigrating to the U.S. and elsewhere, that doesn't equate to some Muslim takeover.

Catholochism is essentialy the "Official" religion in Mexico. But most Mexicans actually practice a modified form. Based on Mayan tradition. Islam seems to be making more headway there than any place else. At this time it is the States that are predominatly Mayan that are reverting the fastest.

Islam Is Gaining a Foothold in Chiapas
By Jens Glüsing

Long a bastion of Catholicism, southern Mexico is quickly turning into a battleground for soul-savers. Islam, too, is gaining a foothold and the indigenous Mayans are converting by the hundreds. The Mexican government is worried about a culture clash in their own backyard.

Source: http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,358223,00.html

Starting in the 1980s or early 1990s many protestant enabgelicals have been going to Mexico and have swayed many of the Mexicans from Catholochism. It seems to be those who have become dissastisfied with both and are now turning to Islam. I know of several Masjids(Mosques) in Mexico City and Guadalajara, However most of the Mexican Muslims prefer to pray outdoors and these is bringing much attention to Islam in Mexico.

I do not see any Islamic takeover by the immigration of Muslims, but I do see a very large and very noticible increase in the number of reverts on almost a daily basis.

I won't be at all surprised to see Mexico become predominatly Muslim through the reverts.
 
I think I can see where islamophobia comes from. It isn't just irrational fear of terrorists. It isn't only KKK mentality.

Islam is one of if not THE fastest spreading religion in the world, by conversion and especially by breeding. Add to that that Muslims have a code of conduct so well defined that many wish to use it as rules of governance.

If Islam overtakes Christianity as the dominant religion here the legal system as it now exists may be in peril. The muslim majority may decide to push Sharia law on the rest of us. That is a scary thought to non-muslims.

I'm not entirely sure how rational that concern is. But it is a concern.

Christianity is very much tamed in the west by secularism. We don't let Christians tell us how to live our lives much anymore. Heresy isn't illegal. Atheists can testify in court. Stores are even open on Sundays now.

Once they become the majority in our democracy, will Muslims be willing to tolerate the secular MULTI cultural society that we've worked so hard to establish? Or will they tear it down and replace it with Sharia law?
 
I think I can see where islamophobia comes from. It isn't just irrational fear of terrorists. It isn't only KKK mentality.

Islam is one of if not THE fastest spreading religion in the world, by conversion and especially by breeding. Add to that that Muslims have a code of conduct so well defined that many wish to use it as rules of governance.

If Islam overtakes Christianity as the dominant religion here the legal system as it now exists may be in peril. The muslim majority may decide to push Sharia law on the rest of us. That is a scary thought to non-muslims.

I'm not entirely sure how rational that concern is. But it is a concern.

Christianity is very much tamed in the west by secularism. We don't let Christians tell us how to live our lives much anymore. Heresy isn't illegal. Atheists can testify in court. Stores are even open on Sundays now.

Once they become the majority in our democracy, will Muslims be willing to tolerate the secular MULTI cultural society that we've worked so hard to establish? Or will they tear it down and replace it with Sharia law?

I would say your fear is hypothetical and should not be a major concern. The only way sharia law would be implanted is if it where the choice of the people and then the concept would be welcomed. So the fear would be a moot point.
 
I think I can see where islamophobia comes from. It isn't just irrational fear of terrorists. It isn't only KKK mentality.

Well, the Islamophobia we are refering to is Just hate of Islam for the sake of Hate and spreading fear, be it out of ignorance or intent.


Islam is one of if not THE fastest spreading religion in the world, by conversion and especially by breeding. Add to that that Muslims have a code of conduct so well defined that many wish to use it as rules of governance.

Well we as a muslim desire nothing but Islam. Hence we are Muslim.

If Islam overtakes Christianity as the dominant religion here the legal system as it now exists may be in peril. The muslim majority may decide to push Sharia law on the rest of us. That is a scary thought to non-muslims.

Well one is talking hypothetical, and it is not really foreseen if Muslim becomes a majority or the majorit will adhere to Islam.

I'm not entirely sure how rational that concern is. But it is a concern.

Christianity is very much tamed in the west by secularism. We don't let Christians tell us how to live our lives much anymore. Heresy isn't illegal. Atheists can testify in court. Stores are even open on Sundays now.

I don't know why atheist won't be able to testify in courts. Or why stores can't be open on sunday's.

Once they become the majority in our democracy, will Muslims be willing to tolerate the secular MULTI cultural society that we've worked so hard to establish? Or will they tear it down and replace it with Sharia law?
I think one should set aside one's fear of Islam. If you are asking do we believe in Islam yes, and all that goes with it (according to the Quran and the Sunnah).

One is speaking hypothically, and their is a need of Islam to implemented in muslim countries let alone being implemented here.
 
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Re: "war against terror and its targets--A question for non-Muslims"

This boils down to the second important distinction I made in my post. I don't dispute that Iraqis or Afghans have the right to fight the occuption forces. What I do dispute is that:
1. They may attack civilian targets (which seems their primary tactic at the moment)
2. Any Muslim anywhere has the right to attack any Western country, which seems a popular enough sentiment as well.

What you see is that the French resistance did indeed accept these rules. They did not infiltrate into Germany to detonate car bombs on markets for example.

If we do not at least set up these restrictions Western civilians would be just as entitled to attack any Muslim in any country, especially their own. If indeed - as you seem to believe - this is a war between the West and Islam, then why would any American (or American militia, there are plenty) not be allowed to hunt down any Muslim they can find in America? Just like in fact the Muhajedeen are doing in Iraq and Afghanistan? Where no Western humanitarian worker, civilian contractor or journalist is in fact safe?

So, as a compromise, I would say them not wearing uniforms is not really an issue as far as resistance fighters IN IRAQ are concerned who attack the OCCUPATION FORCES. Anyone who does not feel bound by these rules (Mulims in American attacking Americans or Iraqis in Iraq targeting civilians) can I believe be identified as a terrorist and dealt with accordingly.

So in short, there are some limits. While I believe both the Iraqi and Afghan resistance are doing more harm than good, I do think they have a right to fight the occupation forces. But what is happening in Iraq now is something completely different. In Afghanistan the Taliban are fighting a bit more traditional war, but even here car bombings and suicide bombings on civilian targets are becoming more popular.

Hello KAding,

I do not understand the purpose of all Attack in Iraq or Afgan.

Some say some events are intentionally created by the western for to broke the unity.

Ask a question in your mind

Do you see picture or do you getting the news from both side. Answer is no.
So why anyone believe Israeli/american and their created media. It’s a proven fact they are a big liar. They can do anything to achieve their goal.

I believe they only provide news only that much what can not harm them. And I also want to believe many people know it.

Many countries fought their own Liberation War.

What felling do they have for those people who are from their own country but helping/fueling the enemy greatly?
What felling does u have for them who assist those destroyers who destroyed your thousand year’s culture and security?

We cannot /should not/ must not ………………… criticize those who are defending their own religion/dream/culture/security/home/family.

We should criticize the invader.
We should criticize those who’s pack of lie destroyed and destroying a entire civilization of Iraq and Afghan.
Their action creating and fueling the entire thing.
They are the only responsible for any wrong doing of anywhere simply bcoz they stared/created and still doing the same massacre for a pack of lie.

Do u how many people suffering by their action?
The entire Muslim Ummah.

A Muslim will feel the same feelings what a brother of Iraq or Afgan(it does not matter what the state is) is feeling.
 
Lets keep some perspective here. This same movement of Muslims that is fighting a Jihad against the US is essentially also at war with:
1. India
2. Russia
3. Ethiopia
4. Thailand
5. Philippines
6. Niger
7. Israel
And last but not least
8. Most muslim states and their leaders

This makes me think the American 'war on terror' is not really the cause of this conflict, since it is so much broader and older. Isn't it all related to this desire to recreate the caliphate and liberate Muslims from kafir/munafiq rule? This goal is a threat to the national interest and even territorial integrity of many states, causing so many conflicts?

I could be wrong though :).
 
Lets keep some perspective here. This same movement of Muslims that is fighting a Jihad against the US is essentially also at war with:
1. India
2. Russia
3. Ethiopia
4. Thailand
5. Philippines
6. Niger
7. Israel
And last but not least
8. Most muslim states and their leaders

This makes me think the American 'war on terror' is not really the cause of this conflict, since it is so much broader and older. Isn't it all related to this desire to recreate the caliphate and liberate Muslims from kafir/munafiq rule? This goal is a threat to the national interest and even territorial integrity of many states, causing so many conflicts?

I could be wrong though :).

Well, that is the problem, when someone see al-qaeda everywhere. They did a very good Job getting the al-qaeda terrorist in everyone mind's so it's easy to jump to conclusion.
They are not fighting their own people.
 
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Well, that is the problem, when someone see al-qaeda everywhere. They did a very good Job getting the al-qaeda terrorist in everyone mind's so it's easy to jump to conclusion.

Who's 'they'? The US?

Anyway, all I'm saying is that most Muslim resistance conflicts have both a local and more international part. You saw this very well in Afghanistan during the 1980's, where many Muslims from all over the world joined in the fight. The same is happening or has happened in Bosnia, Chechnya, Kashmir, Somalia, Iraq and Algeria. There is a global Jihadist movement which seeks to reinforce local groups fighting non-Muslims or Munafiq. Al-Qaeda does not equate this movement, but it is nevertheless part of it.

They are not fighting their own people.

Again, who is 'they'? Al-qaeda? And who are 'their own people'? Muslims?
 
Re: "war against terror and its targets--A question for non-Muslims"

Thankfully the world isn't that black and white....
 
Who's 'they'? The US?

Anyway, all I'm saying is that most Muslim resistance conflicts have both a local and more international part. You saw this very well in Afghanistan during the 1980's, where many Muslims from all over the world joined in the fight. The same is happening or has happened in Bosnia, Chechnya, Kashmir, Somalia, Iraq and Algeria. There is a global Jihadist movement which seeks to reinforce local groups fighting non-Muslims or Munafiq. Al-Qaeda does not equate this movement, but it is nevertheless part of it.

Why do you think this Resistance Groups are springing up?
Who are the non-muslim/munafiq theya re fighting in their land?

Again, who is 'they'? Al-qaeda? And who are 'their own people'? Muslims?

Exactly, the use of al-qaeda is used to spring up certain image in mind when one see muslim resistance around the world.
 
I would say your fear is hypothetical and should not be a major concern. The only way sharia law would be implanted is if it where the choice of the people and then the concept would be welcomed. So the fear would be a moot point.

If muslims become the majority then it WILL be the choice of the people, just not of those of us in the now non-muslim minority. That was my point.
 
Well one is talking hypothetical, and it is not really foreseen if Muslim becomes a majority or the majorit will adhere to Islam.

Not sure I understand what you are saying here. Muslims won't adhere to Islam?

I don't know why atheist won't be able to testify in courts. Or why stores can't be open on sunday's.

The Sundays thing still exists in some places. THe idea is that SUnday is the Lord's day and Christians forbidded people to work on it. Even if you weren't christian you were not allowed to have a store open on Sunday. In many places you still can't buy alcohol on sundays.

Atheists couldn't testify in court until sometime in the mid 1900s. The logic was that if you don't fear eternal punishment you have no reason to tell the truth.
 
If muslims become the majority then it WILL be the choice of the people, just not of those of us in the now non-muslim minority. That was my point.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest we don't have anything to worry about....
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest we don't have anything to worry about....

I don't hold this as a serious fear. I don't lose sleep over this lol. I'm just saying its not hard to see how somebody could go through this logic and become anti-islamic.
 
Fear is a very strong force. When we experience a feeling of fear our logic dictates we find a cause for it. If we do not see an immediate cause, possible threats become strong realities.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest we don't have anything to worry about....

I agree. There are actually just two groups who seem to believe Islam will be taking over 'our countries'. Right-wing extremists and Muslim extremists.

I think the rise of Islam in Europe is already slowing due to:
1. Falling birth rates among second and third generation immigrant children
2. Increasingly strict immigration laws.
3. A natural proces that eventually affects any immigrant group: assimilation (kafirization if you will :rollseyes)
 

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