War in Southern Somalia nearly over

[salafy_masry]

I really can't understand how muslims would trust that the "west" would approve on having a muslim leader that will "rule" with quran and sunnah ..

If someone here knows anything about that .. would you please show me evidence that they will approve it !!

 

[Maryan0]

sister there are certain things that are 'known by necessity' in islam, certain matters which no matter how strongly a person claims islam, if they cross these lines they are apostates.

now one of these is the matter of allying with the non muslims whilst they are fighting the believers, this is clear cut kufr known by necessity.

Allah saying in the Quran,

"O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as 'Auliya' (friends, protectors, helpers etc.), they are but 'Auliya' to one another. And if any amongst you takes them as 'Auliya' then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrongdoers and unjust)." 5:51

so do you accept this is a matter of kufr akbar, kufr which will take you outside of islam?

So thought sheikh sharif may have done some good in the past, that is not doubted if he turns away from that then he will be judged by what he is doing now.

Now he is going to the kuffar, allying with the british, americans, ethiopians, the AU, the UN, all those who have shown themselves clear enemies of islam and yet he goes with them, smiles as his shakes their hands and signs agreements with them.

shaking hands with non muslims doesn't prove kufr, that's a pretty narrow way to look at things. how exactly is he supposed to go about it in the world we live in today threaten to kill them? sometimes you need to compromise for the sake of other people or at least save your threats until you have some sort of power base to threaten from. sheik sharif understands that and that's why he has continuosly asked for every group to bring something to the peace process and this says alot about his character, the fact that al shabaab continues on with pointless fighting irregradless of the suffering it is causing says alot about them.

anyways the only way you can fight a muslim goverment is if the goverment is seriously off the right path ignoring the quran or sunnah or insulting the quran and sunnah or neglecting the fundamentals of islam.
the fact that every single group in somalia is opposed to this group says alot about them and should serve as a warning to those who support them.
salaam

 

[Dawud_uk]

I really can't understand how muslims would trust that the "west" would approve on having a muslim leader that will "rule" with quran and sunnah ..

If someone here knows anything about that .. would you please show me evidence that they will approve it !!

Allah swt informs us in the Quran they will never be pleased with you, not unless you become like them, so if they are pleased with you then there is something one with you!

Never will the Jews or the Christians be satisfied with you unless you follow their form of religion. Say: "The Guidance of Allah,-that is the (only) Guidance." 2:120

 

[Maryan0]

I really can't understand how muslims would trust that the "west" would approve on having a muslim leader that will "rule" with quran and sunnah ..

If someone here knows anything about that .. would you please show me evidence that they will approve it !!

who knows? maybe they think they can bend him to their will. time will tell, until than i think he deserves to be given a chance
salaam

 

[Dawud_uk]

shaking hands with non muslims doesn't prove kufr, that's a pretty narrow way to look at things. how exactly is he supposed to go about it in the world we live in today threaten to kill them? sometimes you need to compromise for the sake of other people or at least save your threats until you have some sort of power base to threaten from. sheik sharif understands that and that's why he has continuosly asked for every group to bring something to the peace process and this says alot about his character, the fact that al shabaab continues on with pointless fighting irregradless of the suffering it is causing says alot about them.

anyways the only way you can fight a muslim goverment is if the goverment is seriously off the right path ignoring the quran or sunnah or insulting the quran and sunnah or neglecting the fundamentals of islam.
the fact that every single group in somalia is opposed to this group says alot about them and should serve as a warning to those who support them.
salaam

you have put across a straw man argument, did i say he was a kaffir because he shook hands with them?

no i said he was a kaffir for allying with them, taking as his allies the same who are fighting the believers the world over.

do you agree alliance with the kuffar who are warring with the believers is a form of kufr akbar, and kufr known by necessity?

Ibn Hazm Stated in Al-Muhalla (11/138):

"What is correct is that His statement, the Most High, "And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them." (The Quran 5:51), should be understood on the basis of its apparent meaning. The person being referred to is a disbeliever from the generality of disbelievers, and no two Muslims disagree regarding this."

Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab, may Allah have mercy on him, gathered ten actions that negate one's Islam (Nawaqid ul-'Ashr), the eighth one of which states:

"Assisting the disbelievers (against the believers) (Mudhaharatul Mushrikeen) and supporting them against the believers (is from the actions that negates of one's faith). The Proof being the statement of Allah, "And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust). (The Quran 5:51)."

Sheikh Abdul Latif bin Abdur Rahman bin Hassan Aal-Sheikh, may Allah have mercy on him stated (Ad-Durrar 8/326):

"Whosoever helps the disbelievers or draws them to the country of Ahl Al-Islam (People of Islam), then such is a manifest apostate by consensus."

Sheikh Abdullah ibn Humaid may Allah have mercy on him, stated(Ad-Durrar 15/479):

"Whoever expresses Tawalli [2] towards the disbelievers (Tawalli Kuffar) and supports and helps them against the believers, then such constitutes apostasy by one's (proceeding) actions. It is obligatory to apply the rules of apostasy upon such a person as is proved by the book, the sunnah and the consensus of the scholars.

Sheikh Ibn Baz stated (Al-Fatawa 1/274):

"There is a consensus amongst the scholars that whoever supports the disbelievers against the believers (Dhahar Al-Kuffar 'Ala Al-Muslimeen), and assists them by any means of assistance, then he is a disbeliever just like them (the disbelievers he supported)…"

 

[salafy_masry]

who knows? maybe they think they can bend him to their will. time will tell, until than i think he deserves to be given a chance
salaam

So you really believe that they would agree on having a country that is ruled by shariah .. the quran and sunnah that allah swt wants muslims to rule with ?

 

[Maryan0]

So you really believe that they would agree on having a country that is ruled by shariah .. the quran and sunnah that allah swt wants muslims to rule with ?

lol didnt he already agree to shariah?
for somali news, hiiraan.com would be a start
salaam

 

[Maryan0]

you have put across a straw man argument, did i say he was a kaffir because he shook hands with them?

no i said he was a kaffir for allying with them, taking as his allies the same who are fighting the believers the world over.

do you agree alliance with the kuffar who are warring with the believers is a form of kufr akbar, and kufr known by necessity?

Ibn Hazm Stated in Al-Muhalla (11/138):

"What is correct is that His statement, the Most High, "And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them." (The Quran 5:51), should be understood on the basis of its apparent meaning. The person being referred to is a disbeliever from the generality of disbelievers, and no two Muslims disagree regarding this."

Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab, may Allah have mercy on him, gathered ten actions that negate one's Islam (Nawaqid ul-'Ashr), the eighth one of which states:

"Assisting the disbelievers (against the believers) (Mudhaharatul Mushrikeen) and supporting them against the believers (is from the actions that negates of one's faith). The Proof being the statement of Allah, "And if any amongst you takes them as Auliya', then surely he is one of them. Verily, Allah guides not those people who are the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers and unjust). (The Quran 5:51)."

Sheikh Abdul Latif bin Abdur Rahman bin Hassan Aal-Sheikh, may Allah have mercy on him stated (Ad-Durrar 8/326):

"Whosoever helps the disbelievers or draws them to the country of Ahl Al-Islam (People of Islam), then such is a manifest apostate by consensus."

Sheikh Abdullah ibn Humaid may Allah have mercy on him, stated(Ad-Durrar 15/479):

"Whoever expresses Tawalli [2] towards the disbelievers (Tawalli Kuffar) and supports and helps them against the believers, then such constitutes apostasy by one's (proceeding) actions. It is obligatory to apply the rules of apostasy upon such a person as is proved by the book, the sunnah and the consensus of the scholars.

Sheikh Ibn Baz stated (Al-Fatawa 1/274):

"There is a consensus amongst the scholars that whoever supports the disbelievers against the believers (Dhahar Al-Kuffar 'Ala Al-Muslimeen), and assists them by any means of assistance, then he is a disbeliever just like them (the disbelievers he supported)…"

brother you have put up a weak arguement.
you have accused a muslim man of apostasy and kufr, yet you have brought absolutely no proof to support your allegations,false accusations are a crime in islam. because he has flown the world over that makes him an ally of the non muslims? that's called politics. you hold a very simplistic view.
where has he supported non muslims? where has he allied themselves with them?

it's easy to endorse a war behind a computer screen because the war doesn't hit close to home but you need to take into account the people who are dying everyday absolutly no reason at all other than the ambitions of selfish men.
salaam

 

[TrueStranger]

Dawud

Talking about allying with the kafurs, care to tell me where Aweys the leader of Al-Shabaab was the two years Ethiopia was in Somalia? Where did he go? Who did he go to? Why did he go to him?

I am tried of these double standards. I repeat myself again, praise not those you know nothing about.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Dawud

Talking about allying with the kafurs, care to tell me where Aweys the leader of Al-Shabaab was the two years Ethiopia was in Somalia? Where did he go? Who did he go to? Why did he go to him?

I am tried of these double standards. I repeat myself again, praise not those you know nothing about.

inform yourself more thoroughly next time before you cast your suspicions around.

sheikh aweys is not the leader of ash shabaab, he is not even the leader of hisbul islam, though he is a spiritual advisor to them.

 

[Dawud_uk]

brother you have put up a weak arguement.
you have accused a muslim man of apostasy and kufr, yet you have brought absolutely no proof to support your allegations,false accusations are a crime in islam. because he has flown the world over that makes him an ally of the non muslims? that's called politics. you hold a very simplistic view.
where has he supported non muslims? where has he allied themselves with them?

it's easy to endorse a war behind a computer screen because the war doesn't hit close to home but you need to take into account the people who are dying everyday absolutly no reason at all other than the ambitions of selfish men.
salaam

you are correct in what i am doing is sitting at home, i have made an intention to make hijrah but unless i do it and go there i am in reality little better than anyone else in talks about these issues.

but simuarly you are also at home, discussing something when you are not there. when the salaf had a big issue they would say to go ask those on the front line, because they had the greatest knowledge.

now you say i have produced no proof, perhaps that is my own weak way of putting the evidences across but do you agree to ally with the kuffar is apostasy, it is kufr known by necessity?

 

[Maryan0]

you are correct in what i am doing is sitting at home, i have made an intention to make hijrah but unless i do it and go there i am in reality little better than anyone else in talks about these issues.

but simuarly you are also at home, discussing something when you are not there. when the salaf had a big issue they would say to go ask those on the front line, because they had the greatest knowledge.

yes i am also at home but i'm not propagating a war, i'm somali, most of my family reside in somalia and having them call everyday because they have been displaced or their children have been killed over petty issues is not pleasent, neither is seeing the stress it causes my parents.
it's nice that you are for an islamic state and that is a dream that many muslims have but you won't find it in somalia neither will you find it with al shabaab.

now you say i have produced no proof, perhaps that is my own weak way of putting the evidences across but do you agree to ally with the kuffar is apostasy, it is kufr known by necessity?

again bro you have produced "no" proof of sheik sharif abandoning his beliefs and allying himself with the non muslims. again accusing a fellow muslim of apostasy and kufr (2 very serious crimes) without proof can itself lead to kufr.

salam

 

[salafy_masry]

lol didnt he already agree to shariah?
for somali news, hiiraan.com would be a start
salaam

lol .. yes the shariah of the UN for sure

 

[TrueStranger]

inform yourself more thoroughly next time before you cast your suspicions around.

sheikh aweys is not the leader of ash shabaab, he is not even the leader of hisbul islam, though he is a spiritual advisor to them.

Al-Shabaab and all these war lovers, along with Aweys are a danger to the innocent people of Somalia. Their war mentality is what you support, simply because you are not the one affected by it, nor is your family. They kill people indiscriminately , and their agenda is nothing but to bring destruction on opposing clans and tribes.

The people suffering are Somalis, the people dying are Somalis, the people who are becoming homeless are Somalis, the orphans are Somalis, the starving people are Somalis. Three million people are suffering because Aweys wants to become the president of Somalia by force. I have never seen people who are so happy to kill their fellow Muslim brothers and sisters, even when they were invited over and over again to peace talks. Are they doing anything for the people of Somalia but shot bullets that kill innocent Somalis and displaces them?

Aweys is the "spiritual" leader of the opposition groups, that includes Al-Shabaab, they oppose anyone he opposes, and they fight when he tells them to fight. Now why is Aweys allying himself with the Eritrean Christian Dictator against his Muslim brother Shiekh Ahmed?

 

[Intisar]

you are correct in what i am doing is sitting at home, i have made an intention to make hijrah but unless i do it and go there i am in reality little better than anyone else in talks about these issues.

but simuarly you are also at home, discussing something when you are not there. when the salaf had a big issue they would say to go ask those on the front line, because they had the greatest knowledge.

now you say i have produced no proof, perhaps that is my own weak way of putting the evidences across but do you agree to ally with the kuffar is apostasy, it is kufr known by necessity?

Now that's so easy for you to say because you're not Somali and thus you are not affected by the hardship going in my country. They have held Somalia captive for over 18 years now, and now these people have either drawn into Islamic factions or they're former warlords who participated in the carnage of their fellow Muslimeen and were apart of the Federal Gov't (the TFG). So please, spare me the ''mujahideen'' talk, when you yourself are sitting comfortably in your nice house not getting any calls begging for money just to make it to the next day, week, month. :rollseyes

I understand your support, and honestly Somalis want Shar'iah, they've never been opposed to it. But they have to live through it, they have to live through seeing the situation not changing at all for them (except for about 6 months of relative peace in 2006).

So yes, it is nice to make the intention for hijrah. But is that really realistic when the people who ran away from their own country, and were even telling themselves that the war would only last a mere weeks, months but never this long haven't been able to go back?

Understand the situation, for those who were born there, who lived there for a couple of years and then moved to the West never to see their beautiful country back to the way it was....it is more than ridiculous to call what these warlords are doing as jihad and calling them ''mujahideen''.

 

[TrueStranger]

lol .. yes the shariah of the UN for sure

Anything is better than the rule of Al-Shabaab.

 

[Maryan0]

lol .. yes the shariah of the UN for sure

well if you say so, no point in asking a question if you already have your answer made up
salaam

 

[nocturnal]

Would it not be feasible for Al Shaabab to form a coalition government with Sheikh Shariff's elected government rather than to forcefully and systematically take town after town in their declared endeavour to rid the country of AU peacekeepers but with no realistic vision in terms of how the country would be run.

Sheikh Shariff was an intrinsic part of the Islamic Courts that administered key civic functions of government and did so with a highly impressive level of efficacy. And it would be quite ludicrous to question his credentials as a principled politician, who does not allow himself to be drawn into western plots of subversion.

So surely with all that in mind, it would make sense for them to reconcile and consolidate a new political formation based on consensus in Somalia, rather than a country riven by warring factions plunging the country into carnage and mayhem.

 

[salafy_masry]

well if you say so, no point in asking a question if you already have your answer made up
salaam

I didn't realize what's going on with sheik sharif till I started to read this thread .. I was really wondering why was he accepted by the international community after what he was doing before ..

So I really didn't know

 

[Dawud_uk]

Now that's so easy for you to say because you're not Somali and thus you are not affected by the hardship going in my country. They have held Somalia captive for over 18 years now, and now these people have either drawn into Islamic factions or they're former warlords who participated in the carnage of their fellow Muslimeen and were apart of the Federal Gov't (the TFG). So please, spare me the ''mujahideen'' talk, when you yourself are sitting comfortably in your nice house not getting any calls begging for money just to make it to the next day, week, month. :rollseyes

sister, i dont think you realise how either misguided or insulting that reply is, so as a muslimah who is somali do you never comment on current affairs in any other nation?

no of-course not, this ummah is one body, if one part gets injured the rest gets fever so i am sure you would be as concerned as i am for muslims of whatever race or culture.

if you meant i have no right to comment, or advocate a particular solution just because i am not somali then that reminds of a situation at one of my local masaajid where some brothers were handing out fliers after jummah and one somali brother said ''how dare you do this in our community?''
so the brother giving out the leaflets said ''am i not muslim?''
the somali brother then said ''yes''
the leafleting brother giving out the leaflets then said ''are you not muslim then?''
the somali brother ''YES!''
the leafleting brother then refuted him and you if this was your intention by saying ''then we are both one community, one body no matter what race.''

I understand your support, and honestly Somalis want Shar'iah, they've never been opposed to it. But they have to live through it, they have to live through seeing the situation not changing at all for them (except for about 6 months of relative peace in 2006).

sister, it is because of the awful situation in somali that they need ash-shabaab to impose shariah, shariah will bring justice and law and order just like it did under the islamic courts, just like it did in afghanistan under the taliban and look what has happened in both countries without it.

surely you must see the only what in the long run peace and security will come to somalia is through the shariah and the mujahideen fighting for it not imposed from outside by the very countries who do not want shariah nor a strong somalia?

also sister it does not matter whether the people desire shariah or not, this is not an optional extra in islam, wherever we are we need to bring in as much shariah as possible in that part of the world with the ultimate objective being the whole system.

So yes, it is nice to make the intention for hijrah. But is that really realistic when the people who ran away from their own country, and were even telling themselves that the war would only last a mere weeks, months but never this long haven't been able to go back?

i have no doubt of the difficulty of making hijrah, but i knew people who went there under the previous islamic courts administration, they knew many more and not all somali.

if it wasnt difficult the reward would be so much less but it is a matter of balance, not taking stupid risks and not being so cautious it never happens, but that doesnt stop the fact it is a fard obligation for those of us living here in darul harb.

Understand the situation, for those who were born there, who lived there for a couple of years and then moved to the West never to see their beautiful country back to the way it was....it is more than ridiculous to call what these warlords are doing as jihad and calling them ''mujahideen''.

sister, this is several times you have made this allegation, do you have any proof to show that ash shabaab are run by former warlords like many of the transitional government were?