War in Southern Somalia nearly over

[salafy_masry]

The Somali parliament has voted unanimously for the implementation of Sharia which is seen as good news by many in the Muslim world - and it is - as it reflects the desire of the Somali people to live by the laws of Allah.

However there are some issues that need to be highlighted. First, there is a fundamental problem with the procedure in which the decision was made. The law of Allah should not be voted over. To give the people the choice whether to apply Sharia or not reflects a fundamental problem in the understanding of Tawhid.

Allah says: But no, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make you, [O Muhammad] judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full] submission. [al Nisa 65]

So people cannot be believers until they submit to the law of Allah and accept it without any reservations. The Islamic government exists to impose Sharia rather than submit it to a vote. Therefore a government that declares that it will accept the results of a vote for Sharia, even if the results are not to implement it, is by necessity a non-Islamic government.

Second, the Sharif government is using its application of Sharia to convince the other resistance groups to lay down their arms and join the government. But from a Sharia point of view the objectives of the Jihad in Somalia have not been achieved yet and therefore the Jihad of these groups needs to carry on.

Yes, the implementation of Sharia is the most important of these objectives, however, the Sharif government cannot be seen as a valid government for three main reasons. The first: Just as it applied Sharia by a vote it could dismantle Sharia by a vote. They have not implemented Sharia as a matter of principle but because it is the will of the people and therefore the Sharif government is closer to being a democratic government than it being an Islamic one. Second: The Sharif government is still allowing the existence of a foreign invading force represented in the forces of the African Union. The Jihad in Somalia should carry on until the last AU soldier leaves the country and any forces that side with the AU -including the Sharif government- become legitimate targets. And third: The Sharif government is basing its foreign relations with the outside world on a nationalistic basis rather that an Islamic one. The support it receives from the US, the EU and the UN is a reflection of it being a tool to advance the imperialistic interests of the West and to eradicate the strong Jihad movement in the country.
Therefore, even though it is good news for the ummah that Sharia will be implemented again in Somalia but we should not see this as an end to the struggle to establish an Islamic state and community and to free the country from foreign intervention and corruption.

http://www.anwar-alawlaki.com/?p=119

 

[Intisar]

sister, i dont think you realise how either misguided or insulting that reply is, so as a muslimah who is somali do you never comment on current affairs in any other nation?

How? Was there any truth to my statement? Do you get phone calls asking for money? Do you get relatives wanting to be sponsored to the West so they can live a better life, without fear of being shot in their sleep?

Even if I do only respond to Somali news, is there anything wrong with that? Does that make me a nationalist?

no of-course not, this ummah is one body, if one part gets injured the rest gets fever so i am sure you would be as concerned as i am for muslims of whatever race or culture.

I agree, and I never said the ummah isn't one body tyvm.

if you meant i have no right to comment, or advocate a particular solution just because i am not somali then that reminds of a situation at one of my local masaajid where some brothers were handing out fliers after jummah and one somali brother said ''how dare you do this in our community?''
so the brother giving out the leaflets said ''am i not muslim?''
the somali brother then said ''yes''
the leafleting brother giving out the leaflets then said ''are you not muslim then?''
the somali brother ''YES!''
the leafleting brother then refuted him and you if this was your intention by saying ''then we are both one community, one body no matter what race.''

Um no I never said you didn't have a right to comment, but rather being on the sidelines and getting your information not directly from Somali people affected by this gives you a false impression.

sister, it is because of the awful situation in somali that they need ash-shabaab to impose shariah, shariah will bring justice and law and order just like it did under the islamic courts, just like it did in afghanistan under the taliban and look what has happened in both countries without it.

Bro, the last thing they need is Al-Shabab. May Allaah grant Somalis peace they have longed for.

surely you must see the only what in the long run peace and security will come to somalia is through the shariah and the mujahideen fighting for it not imposed from outside by the very countries who do not want shariah nor a strong somalia?

Not through Al-Shabab.

also sister it does not matter whether the people desire shariah or not, this is not an optional extra in islam, wherever we are we need to bring in as much shariah as possible in that part of the world with the ultimate objective being the whole system.

Fair enough, but you were acting like Al-Shabab were a Godsend or something. You're getting it twisted, I was just trying to clarify that Somalis do want shar'iah law, and the parliament even voted on it. Their objective, Al-Shabab, was to get the Ethiopians out of our land and they did. So what's with the fighting still going on?

i have no doubt of the difficulty of making hijrah, but i knew people who went there under the previous islamic courts administration, they knew many more and not all somali.

The IUC and Al-Shabab aren't the same thing, IUC brought peace to the capital after 15 years.

if it wasnt difficult the reward would be so much less but it is a matter of balance, not taking stupid risks and not being so cautious it never happens, but that doesnt stop the fact it is a fard obligation for those of us living here in darul harb.

So your intention is to go, but you know it's impossible, especially to Somalia.

sister, this is several times you have made this allegation, do you have any proof to show that ash shabaab are run by former warlords like many of the transitional government were?

Read a bit more carefully, I said the TFG.

 

[Dawud_uk]

How? Was there any truth to my statement? Do you get phone calls asking for money? Do you get relatives wanting to be sponsored to the West so they can live a better life, without fear of being shot in their sleep?

Even if I do only respond to Somali news, is there anything wrong with that? Does that make me a nationalist?



I agree, and I never said the ummah isn't one body tyvm.



Um no I never said you didn't have a right to comment, but rather being on the sidelines and getting your information not directly from Somali people affected by this gives you a false impression.




Bro, the last thing they need is Al-Shabab. May Allaah grant Somalis peace they have longed for.



Not through Al-Shabab.



Fair enough, but you were acting like Al-Shabab were a Godsend or something. You're getting it twisted, I was just trying to clarify that Somalis do want shar'iah law, and the parliament even voted on it. Their objective, Al-Shabab, was to get the Ethiopians out of our land and they did. So what's with the fighting still going on?



The IUC and Al-Shabab aren't the same thing, IUC brought peace to the capital after 15 years.




So your intention is to go, but you know it's impossible, especially to Somalia.




Read a bit more carefully, I said the TFG.

assalaamu alaykum sister,

i do speak to a lot of somalis and have somali friends, i have had a somali family live in my home in the past when no one else would take them in and they were stuck living in the most jahil of kuffar areas near where i lived so i am not totally ignorant of the situation there or the dire situation of the somali people in general.

however, you almost certainly have more information than i do.

could you tell me why ash-shabaab are a bad thing? their stated intention is islamic rule, their actions are showing this in practice, yes they are likely to make mistakes along the way but i cannot see anything which would prevent my supporting them with my du'as at least?

to me i see the situation in somali continuing for a long time unless true islamic rule is established by the mujahideen, any other solution is only likely to lead to more war and more outside interference, the kuffar do not respect weakness only strength so if the somalis want to stand on their feet and end the blood shed it requires another last push to get rid of the warlords not just in southern somalia but in the whole nation there and only ash-shabaab have the will and strength to do it.

its like the ruling of ibn taymiyyah who said it is better to give money to those fighting in the path of Allah than to the poor, feeding the poor only helps with the symptoms, jihad is required to remove the cause of those problems and is better for those poor people in the long run.

 

[Intisar]

assalaamu alaykum sister,

however, you almost certainly have more information than i do.

I have family living almost everywhere in Somalia, and I plan on going back inshaAllaah next year. So in a sense I get the news straight from the horse's mouth.

You have to understand that Somali culture is that of an oral one, our written language only really started in the 60s due to the then dictator Siyaad Barre forcing Somalis to learn how to write in their own language. People only knew how to speak it, they could recite their lineage all the way back to their patriarch, but were illiterate in terms of Somali.

My mother was forced to go into the middle of baadiyo (the country) and teach everyone how to write in English, Arabic and Italian. Because we were colonised by the Brits and Italians. She remembers this so clearly, but if you ask my grandmother about this she wouldn't even know because she speaks Somali so eloquently but cannot write in Somali.

So when it comes to the news, it's spread around orally in Somali, and if you're lucky you can call family to tell them what's been going on. That's what I meant before, many people get their sources from bbc.com, when all they do is spew propaganda as usual.

And certain Somali websites, dare I say it, have a clan bias. Except for hiiraan.com.

So if I offended you, then inshaAllaah I apologise and please forgive me for the sake of Allaah.

could you tell me why ash-shabaab are a bad thing? their stated intention is islamic rule, their actions are showing this in practice, yes they are likely to make mistakes along the way but i cannot see anything which would prevent my supporting them with my du'as at least?

The bloodshed, the carnage, the damage they've caused. It's not as if Somalia is a kufaar country, alhamdulilah we are a 99% Muslim country. But I cannot support them when so many people die, and it's usually the innocent ones from the middle of baadiyo (the country) who have no idea what's going on because they are so far removed from the rest of the people. I mean who else are they killing? The Ethiopians are gone alhamdulilah.

One thing I support about them is that they destroyed many graves. Somalis have a history of suufism, although these days the majority are sunni who follow the shafi'i madhab. Somali people tend to travel to graves of the deceased and make supplication to them, which is shirk. So alhamdulilah for that.

But when they beheaded a man, and it was put on the internet. That was just so disgusting. Apparently a murtad, went from Islam to Christianity, fled from Somalia to Kenya and they captured him and beheaded him. May Allaah forgive me if I am wrong. The video was really really disgusting subhanAllaah.

to me i see the situation in somali continuing for a long time unless true islamic rule is established by the mujahideen, any other solution is only likely to lead to more war and more outside interference, the kuffar do not respect weakness only strength so if the somalis want to stand on their feet and end the blood shed it requires another last push to get rid of the warlords not just in southern somalia but in the whole nation there and only ash-shabaab have the will and strength to do it.

Exactly, which is why I supported the IUC. They brought peace and stability to Somalia alhamdulilah, Mogadishu and people were relatively happy about that. Although some were mad that jaad was banned. Either way, it was a good time for Somalia. They even gave back homes that some of the warlords and generally bad people stole from others in Mogadishu. For ex: I was a few months old, or a year old, I don't remember, when I fled from Mogadishu in a pick up truck. My mother had told me that people had looted our house, and homes in the entire city and used feces to write on the walls that a certain clan lived there and they even raped women in the masjid. Old and elderly women for God's sake!

But the IUC, which at that time was lead by Shaikh Shareef, evicted those people and gave back the homes.

If Al-Shabab can follow their example, and use more peaceful tactics instead of ''kill kill kill'', the mentality they have going on right now then they will have my support.

 

[KAding]

The Somali parliament has voted unanimously for the implementation of Sharia which is seen as good news by many in the Muslim world - and it is - as it reflects the desire of the Somali people to live by the laws of Allah.

However there are some issues that need to be highlighted. First, there is a fundamental problem with the procedure in which the decision was made. The law of Allah should not be voted over. To give the people the choice whether to apply Sharia or not reflects a fundamental problem in the understanding of Tawhid.

Allah says: But no, by your Lord, they will not believe until they make you, [O Muhammad] judge concerning that over which they dispute among themselves and then find within themselves no discomfort from what you have judged and submit in [full] submission. [al Nisa 65]

So people cannot be believers until they submit to the law of Allah and accept it without any reservations. The Islamic government exists to impose Sharia rather than submit it to a vote. Therefore a government that declares that it will accept the results of a vote for Sharia, even if the results are not to implement it, is by necessity a non-Islamic government.

Second, the Sharif government is using its application of Sharia to convince the other resistance groups to lay down their arms and join the government. But from a Sharia point of view the objectives of the Jihad in Somalia have not been achieved yet and therefore the Jihad of these groups needs to carry on.

Yes, the implementation of Sharia is the most important of these objectives, however, the Sharif government cannot be seen as a valid government for three main reasons. The first: Just as it applied Sharia by a vote it could dismantle Sharia by a vote. They have not implemented Sharia as a matter of principle but because it is the will of the people and therefore the Sharif government is closer to being a democratic government than it being an Islamic one. Second: The Sharif government is still allowing the existence of a foreign invading force represented in the forces of the African Union. The Jihad in Somalia should carry on until the last AU soldier leaves the country and any forces that side with the AU -including the Sharif government- become legitimate targets. And third: The Sharif government is basing its foreign relations with the outside world on a nationalistic basis rather that an Islamic one. The support it receives from the US, the EU and the UN is a reflection of it being a tool to advance the imperialistic interests of the West and to eradicate the strong Jihad movement in the country.
Therefore, even though it is good news for the ummah that Sharia will be implemented again in Somalia but we should not see this as an end to the struggle to establish an Islamic state and community and to free the country from foreign intervention and corruption.

http://www.anwar-alawlaki.com/?p=119

Wow, with such reasons this conflict could take a long time still. Since it basically boil down to 'we want the same as they do, but we don't trust them'.

I also like the 'our Sha'ria is better, because we don't seek public support' argument! Clearly pragmatism isn't one of their strong points .

 

[KAding]

a mujahid is one who fights in the path of Allah, fighting to make Allah's deen most high. do you not think this is the intention of ash-shahab?

have they not consistantly fought the enemies of Allah, the secularists, the warlords, the ethiopians, the AU forces?

are you saying they are not mujahideen, if so why do they not fight for Allah, if you believe they do not or do you have a different definition of mujahid to mine?

They are fighting other Muslims now though, Muslims that even profess that they want to implement Sha'riah law. So I don't understand how they can be Mujaheddin if they are fighting and killing fellow Muslims :hmm:.

 

[Trumble]

are you saying they are not mujahideen, if so why do they not fight for Allah, if you believe they do not or do you have a different definition of mujahid to mine?"

As usual, they fight for themselves and to force their will on others , not 'for Allah'. Religion is just the excuse and the 'mujahadeen' label for the gullible.

 

[Dawud_uk]

I have family living almost everywhere in Somalia, and I plan on going back inshaAllaah next year. So in a sense I get the news straight from the horse's mouth.

You have to understand that Somali culture is that of an oral one, our written language only really started in the 60s due to the then dictator Siyaad Barre forcing Somalis to learn how to write in their own language. People only knew how to speak it, they could recite their lineage all the way back to their patriarch, but were illiterate in terms of Somali.

My mother was forced to go into the middle of baadiyo (the country) and teach everyone how to write in English, Arabic and Italian. Because we were colonised by the Brits and Italians. She remembers this so clearly, but if you ask my grandmother about this she wouldn't even know because she speaks Somali so eloquently but cannot write in Somali.

So when it comes to the news, it's spread around orally in Somali, and if you're lucky you can call family to tell them what's been going on. That's what I meant before, many people get their sources from bbc.com, when all they do is spew propaganda as usual.

And certain Somali websites, dare I say it, have a clan bias. Except for hiiraan.com.

So if I offended you, then inshaAllaah I apologise and please forgive me for the sake of Allaah.



The bloodshed, the carnage, the damage they've caused. It's not as if Somalia is a kufaar country, alhamdulilah we are a 99% Muslim country. But I cannot support them when so many people die, and it's usually the innocent ones from the middle of baadiyo (the country) who have no idea what's going on because they are so far removed from the rest of the people. I mean who else are they killing? The Ethiopians are gone alhamdulilah.

One thing I support about them is that they destroyed many graves. Somalis have a history of suufism, although these days the majority are sunni who follow the shafi'i madhab. Somali people tend to travel to graves of the deceased and make supplication to them, which is shirk. So alhamdulilah for that.

But when they beheaded a man, and it was put on the internet. That was just so disgusting. Apparently a murtad, went from Islam to Christianity, fled from Somalia to Kenya and they captured him and beheaded him. May Allaah forgive me if I am wrong. The video was really really disgusting subhanAllaah.



Exactly, which is why I supported the IUC. They brought peace and stability to Somalia alhamdulilah, Mogadishu and people were relatively happy about that. Although some were mad that jaad was banned. Either way, it was a good time for Somalia. They even gave back homes that some of the warlords and generally bad people stole from others in Mogadishu. For ex: I was a few months old, or a year old, I don't remember, when I fled from Mogadishu in a pick up truck. My mother had told me that people had looted our house, and homes in the entire city and used feces to write on the walls that a certain clan lived there and they even raped women in the masjid. Old and elderly women for God's sake!

But the IUC, which at that time was lead by Shaikh Shareef, evicted those people and gave back the homes.

If Al-Shabab can follow their example, and use more peaceful tactics instead of ''kill kill kill'', the mentality they have going on right now then they will have my support.

sister i was aware of the oral traditions of the somalis, so as you can see i am not totally ignorant of your culture! as someone who takes hijrah very seriously i learn as much about a culture as i can so inshallah i know as much as i can before i leap.

as for the beheading, it might look harsh but this is from the deen of islam, we all know the ruling on killing an apostate and such punishments should be carried out publicly to give deterence to others. in the past this would mean the market square in the biggest city, today that means TV and internet. each serves as a deterence to others.

now i think the one thing we can agree upon is that somalia is a mess with clan fighting clan all over the place, now how exactly do you end these clan militias, these bandits and gangsters and warlords if they wont listen to reason and put up their arms? the only way is jihad.

jihad to bring these towns and villages into compliance so the graves can be levelled, the jahil customs challenged by the da'ee and peace restored. but it often requires violence to bring them into compliance first if they wont listen when the words of the Quran and sunnah are recited to them. how is it going to be possible to establish shariah if not by violence sometimes? remember just is individually we have no choice but to submit to Allah, each town or village has no choice but to submit to the shariah.

why do you feel sheikh sharif is the UIC as it was then and ash-shabaab not? remember ash-shabaab were part of the islamic courts, as was hisbul islam, sheikh sharif was only one leader amongst many and others have apposed him and his democracy and sucking up to the ethiopians, why have they done this?

finally, why is sheikh sharif president just because some kufr UN supported meeting involving the very people behind the transitional govt and others, many secularists supported him in a democratic election?

why does this man, whose selection by a non islamic body get to be amir when he controls only a few blocks of the capital, came late once the ethiopians were expelled and where as ash-shabaab and hisbul islam which control far more of the country and capital, have done all the fighting, and have their own leaders chosen through shura not democracy?

 

[nocturnal]

As usual, they fight for themselves and to force their will on others , not 'for Allah'. Religion is just the excuse and the 'mujahadeen' label for the gullible.

We can discuss whether the methodology they are employing is right or wrong, that certainly is open to scrutiny. But these people are fighting for an unquestionable declared objective, which is NOT the implementation of Sharia, because preisdent Sheikh Shariff has already done that, they are fighting for the expulsion of AU forces from the country.

That is what has caused the schism between those in government and those opposing it. Its not an ideological battle; it stems from the fact that Sheikh Shariff's administration has hitherto deemed it permissible to have these forces in the country.

 

[Omar_Mukhtar]

the implementation of Sharia, because preisdent Sheikh Shariff has already done that, they are fighting for the expulsion of AU forces from the country.

QUOTE]

They say that to the Somalis at home. But when they speak on western media outlets they claim that their sharia will not conflict with Western secularism. The "president" was quoted on western media as saying that Somalis did not need to change the constituion as the country was already muslim. The Prime Minister also told reporters in Ethiopia that they wouldn't be using the extremists methods such as chopping of hands for stealing and other hudood. So, I think it is bit of an exaggeration to claim that Shariff has introduced Sharia or accepted it entirely. Instead, what he has done is to desperately try to please the demands Somali Muslims and the UN/AU/USA at the same time. This is what he also done when he ignored the demands of the scholars to remove the AU troops. Personally, I believe he is not doing this out of hatred or dislike of Sharia or Islam, but he probably sincerely believes he can bring peace to Somalia and alievate the suffering of the people in this manner. However, all he is doing is confusing himself and confusinfg the SOmalis. This is even obvious to western observors, including Dr. Michael A. Weinstein, Professor of Political Science, Purdue University:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In sharp contrast to Al-Shabaab’s revolutionary and A.R.S.-A’s resistance postures, both of which fall within received modern paradigms, Sh. Sharif’s reformism is reactive, purposively vague, and seemingly expedient. In his letter to Prime Minister Omar Abdirashid Ali Sharmarke requesting that the cabinet adopt Shari’ah, Sh. Sharif reportedly wrote that the action was necessary to forestall “prolonged fights,” a justification that he later repeated at press conferences and in addresses. Caught between having to satisfy his clerical and clan bases, both of which favor implementation of Shari’ah, and the donor powers on which the T.F.G. is dependent financially, and which favor a secular government, Sh. Sharif, gave way to the former, but tried to mollify the latter.

Sh. Sharif’s brand of impromptu reformism emerged at a press conference in Nairobi on March 12, where he began with the assurance that the Shari’ah that he had in mind for Somalia was not the strict version forwarded by Al-Shabaab, but a more modern variant that would allow women to serve in parliament (an issue raised by the armed opposition) and an acceptance of democracy, which he said “is not inherently against Islam.”

As a compromise formation precipitated from the cross-pressures of base and donors, Sh. Sharif’s Islamic Reformism is the weakest of the ideological contenders by virtue of its transparent use of political Islam as a means to the end of saving the T.F.G. and its resulting vagueness.

 

[Maryan0]

al shabaab are also somali muslim people and i really wish they would join the peace process like they were invited to do. maybe if all the somali factions were united among themselves we wouldn't need amisom, the ethiopians and eritrians. expecting everything to happen at once is very unrealistic especially with a country like somalia. why doesn't anybody think of the people?
continuous bloodshed benefits nobody and causes greater enmity and i think somalis have seen enough of that.
i'd hate to be some of these people on the last day.
salam

 

[nocturnal]

There is nothing vague or dubious about Sheikh Shariff's reformism. He has undertaken the action of implementation of Sharia because that is what is in accord with the masses who have suffered unimaginably for almost two decades.

Also, a bit of common sense would make clear that Sheikh Shariff was a key figure in the Islamic Courts and given his clean reputation, it is scarcely credible to believe that he would institute any policies that are anti-Islamic.

You should not demonize him for his earnest efforts to restore peace to this war-ravaged nation.

 

[Omar_Mukhtar]

There is nothing vague or dubious about Sheikh Shariff's reformism. He has undertaken the action of implementation of Sharia because that is what is in accord with the masses who have suffered unimaginably for almost two decades.

Also, a bit of common sense would make clear that Sheikh Shariff was a key figure in the Islamic Courts and given his clean reputation, it is scarcely credible to believe that he would institute any policies that are anti-Islamic.

You should not demonize him for his earnest efforts to restore peace to this war-ravaged nation.

akhi, no one has demonised him. Everything I said is out in the open public.Believing someone is earnest or nice, means nothing, if they act contrary to what they state from their tongue. The first thing the man said when he got elected was that he would crush "extremists". What is so peaceful about that? He has recently recalled all the warlords( the ones he defeated in 2006) and they are infact leading his war effort. Again, what is so peaceful about that? Ethiopian troops are also back in the country, apparently with his governments collusion.And, yes, he has made contradictory statements on the issue of sharia, as well as his refusal to order out the African troops which, by the way he currently ordering to shell Somali civilians. The professor is right when he claims the man is torn between serving the interests and demands of his backers(US/AU, etc.) or the SOmali, Muslim people.

 

[nocturnal]

akhi, no one has demonised him. Everything I said is out in the open public.Believing someone is earnest or nice, means nothing, if they act contrary to what they state from their tongue. The first thing the man said when he got elected was that he would crush "extremists". What is so peaceful about that? He has recently recalled all the warlords( the ones he defeated in 2006) and they are infact leading his war effort. Again, what is so peaceful about that? Ethiopian troops are also back in the country, apparently with his governments collusion.And, yes, he has made contradictory statements on the issue of sharia, as well as his refusal to order out the African troops which, by the way he currently ordering to shell Somali civilians. The professor is right when he claims the man is torn between serving the interests and demands of his backers(US/AU, etc.) or the SOmali, Muslim people.

We need to set the record straight, resistance to ethiopian/american occupation and hegemony is one thing, but trying to reign in the likes of Al Shabaab, and draw them into the political process is another. Sheikh Shariff has not recalled the warlords he defeated in 2006, it his the supporters and military wing of the Islamic courts that is supporting him.

He hasn't staunchly defended AU troops in Somalia the way you are suggesting, but you can understand why he is a little hesitant to expel them given the impending collapse of his administration. If Al Shabaab however, took part in reconciliatory engagement with his government, then after working on a credible model for redevelopment and stability, they could concurrently set a timetable for AU withdrawal.

There is nothing to suggest that Sheikh Shariff is an American proxy, the previous TFG with Abdullahi Yusuf i concur was an abhorrent and callous government, we need to support this one.

 

[Omar_Mukhtar]

akhi,let us agree to disagree, since you are not willing to accept facts.

 

[Maryan0]

He hasn't staunchly defended AU troops in Somalia the way you are suggesting, but you can understand why he is a little hesitant to expel them given the impending collapse of his administration. If Al Shabaab however, took part in reconciliatory engagement with his government, then after working on a credible model for redevelopment and stability, they could concurrently set a timetable for AU withdrawal.
QUOTE]
exactly, but nobodies willing to think ahead.
the actions of certain somalis whether bad or good have brought somalia to the state it is today, not the ethiopians, not the eritrians, not amisom and not whoever else people want to scapegoat, somalia's conflict is an old one and reconciliation instead of fighting is the best route to go.

salam

 

[nocturnal]

He hasn't staunchly defended AU troops in Somalia the way you are suggesting, but you can understand why he is a little hesitant to expel them given the impending collapse of his administration. If Al Shabaab however, took part in reconciliatory engagement with his government, then after working on a credible model for redevelopment and stability, they could concurrently set a timetable for AU withdrawal.
QUOTE]
exactly, but nobodies willing to think ahead.
the actions of certain somalis whether bad or good have brought somalia to the state it is today, not the ethiopians, not the eritrians, not amisom and not whoever else people want to scapegoat, somalia's conflict is an old one and reconciliation instead of fighting is the best route to go.

salam

I agree totally. I think Insha'Allah that will happen; perhaps its one of these things where people only realise the most viable option when all else has been exhausted. Somalia has pretty much in the last two decades reached its nadir, and sooner or later, this whole fractious system of clan-based politics and militias will end and Somalia will prosper. The people have persevered alot and deserve nothing less than peace and harmony.

 

[Dawud_uk]

I agree totally. I think Insha'Allah that will happen; perhaps its one of these things where people only realise the most viable option when all else has been exhausted. Somalia has pretty much in the last two decades reached its nadir, and sooner or later, this whole fractious system of clan-based politics and militias will end and Somalia will prosper. The people have persevered alot and deserve nothing less than peace and harmony.

head in the clouds optimism, so your argument is let things be and they'll sort them selves out?

ash-shabaab have a plan to stop all the fighting, simply take away the guns from the clan based militias, either peacefully if they agree or forcefully from their dead fingers.

this is how this war will end, why would these clan leaders give us their power otherwise? it makes no sense for them to do so, they have everything they want now.

so to bring in shariah, to force out the kuffar forces, which would bring a final peace to the somali conflict, the only way is jihad.

 

[Maryan0]

head in the clouds optimism, so your argument is let things be and they'll sort them selves out?

ash-shabaab have a plan to stop all the fighting, simply take away the guns from the clan based militias, either peacefully if they agree or forcefully from their dead fingers.

this is how this war will end, why would these clan leaders give us their power otherwise? it makes no sense for them to do so, they have everything they want now.

so to bring in shariah, to force out the kuffar forces, which would bring a final peace to the somali conflict, the only way is jihad.

very unrealistic, so is your argument let muslims continue to kill each other and everything will be sorted out eventually never mind the deaths of innocents caught in the crossfire. i really hate when people disregard the deaths of civilians, the ends never justify the means, you sound like george bush and his cronies putting up an argumnet like that, the only difference is that he was a kufar who was killing muslim people and your a muslim justifying the killing of muslim people .
nobody cares about al shabaabs plans, and the last time i checked al shabaab were the ones with the guns and al shabaab were the ones using their guns to kill people. I wonder when the blood of innocent muslims became halal? who are these people fighting for and who do they represent?they don't represent me neither do they represent the vast majority of somalis.
again al shabaab would at least have some basis for their fighting if Sheik Sharif left them out of the peace process. but he has repeatedly asked for them to join and they have repeatedly chosen to ignore him.they have an agenda and i doubt it's islam.
"he doesn't want to implement the shariah properly" doesn't justify the unrest in somalia as of late caused by al shabaab and the hundreds of people that have died, neither does that argument justify the killing of other muslim people.
to fight a muslim government you have to have a stronger excuse than that and even then it has to be a last resort.
salam

 

[KAding]

so to bring in shariah, to force out the kuffar forces, which would bring a final peace to the somali conflict, the only way is jihad.

But I still don't understand. In your opinion, is or isn't it haram to wage a jihad against fellow Muslims who profess the oneness of Allah and who say they want to implement Sha'ria law?

I mean, I understand the complexity of the situation, but am I understanding right that you think that support from the African Union for the president is what trumps this general rule that Muslims can't fight and kill other Muslims? On what basis exactly? Is your position that the current Somali president and his soldiers are in fact apostates and because of that valid targets for a jihad?