Was the Prophet Illiterate or Literate?

[czgibson]

Greetings,

You make lots of good points. I think you're right to say that our different experiences will lead to us drawing different conclusions.

hope i didnt offend in anyway,

Of course not. I hope I didn't either.

Peace

 

[YusufNoor]

Greetings,

"The Prophethood will last among you for as long as Allah (God) wills, then Allah would take it away. Then it will be (followed by) a Khilafah [caliphate] Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood. It will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah would take it away. Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes. Afterwards, there will be biting oppression, and it will last for as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it if He wishes. Then there will be a Khilafah Rashida according to the ways of the Prophethood," then he kept silent.

This is utterly vague, as are most "prophecies". It's about as impressive as saying "something will happen; or, it may not".

How can anyone take this sort of thing seriously?

Peace

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

actually we're at the end of, but let me rephrase it:


"The Prophethood will last among you for as long as Allah (God) wills, then Allah would take it away.

nice starter sentence, we keep it


Then it will be (followed by) a Khilafah [caliphate] Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood. It will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah would take it away.


Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes.


Afterwards, there will be biting oppression, and it will last for as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it if He wishes.


Then there will be a Khilafah Rashida according to the ways of the Prophethood," then he kept silent.

let's look at it now:

"The Prophethood will last among you for as long as Allah (God) wills, then Allah would take it away.

Then it will be (followed by) a Khilafah [caliphate] Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood.

Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership

Afterwards, there will be biting oppression

Then there will be a Khilafah Rashida according to the ways of the Prophethood,"

so we were told that AFTER the Prophet, there will be some just rulers who rule just like him. this will be followed by some kind of dynasty; which will result in biting oppression. HOWEVER, before the end, we WILL have Just Ruler who follow the ways of the Prophet!

it's not that opaque, is it?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

How about "peace be upon everyone"? Why be so divisive?

it's not that opaque, is it?

It's clearer after you've rephrased it, yes, but it's vague as it stands before that.

And, if Whatsthepoint is right here, inaccurate too:

The hadith says there will be biting oppression after the hereditary leadership. There was oppresion during the hereditary leadership.

Peace

 

[YusufNoor]

Greetings,


How about "peace be upon everyone"? Why be so divisive?

it's Sunnah when talking to non-Muslims. if i understand it correctly, it's because the usual greeting Asalaamu Alaykum is a "guarantee" of peace to the other believer. you can't guarantee it to a non-Muslim unless they "follow/observe" the guidance. i could have it wrong


It's clearer after you've rephrased it, yes, but it's vague as it stands before that.

And, if Whatsthepoint is right here, inaccurate too:

i may have punctuated incorrectly: this will be followed by some kind of dynasty which will result in biting oppression. the mere fact that you are letting someone govern the ummah who doesn't rule "according to the ways of the Prophet" means you will stray from the STRAIGHT PATH [in the Fatihah, said at least 17 times a day we ask Allah to "guide us to the straight path]. this straying will result in biting oppression. THAT will happen individually and /or collectively if you follow someone who doesn't teach/live/govern "according to the ways of the Prophet" .

Peace

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

i was also meaning that since we're at the other end of the prophecy, that what we are concerned with is the "reinstatement of a Khilafah [caliphate] Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood. the rest, while historical, is now preamble...

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

it's Sunnah when talking to non-Muslims. if i understand it correctly, it's because the usual greeting Asalaamu Alaykum is a "guarantee" of peace to the other believer. you can't guarantee it to a non-Muslim unless they "follow/observe" the guidance. i could have it wrong

So your religion encourages you to be divisive?

i may have punctuated incorrectly: this will be followed by some kind of dynasty which will result in biting oppression. the mere fact that you are letting someone govern the ummah who doesn't rule "according to the ways of the Prophet" means you will stray from the STRAIGHT PATH [in the Fatihah, said at least 17 times a day we ask Allah to "guide us to the straight path]. this straying will result in biting oppression. THAT will happen individually and /or collectively if you follow someone who doesn't teach/live/govern "according to the ways of the Prophet" .

i was also meaning that since we're at the other end of the prophecy, that what we are concerned with is the "reinstatement of a Khilafah [caliphate] Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood. the rest, while historical, is now preamble...

I'm sure you've done a good job of interpreting the words, but the very fact that you've had to write so much by way of explanation proves that the original text is not at all clear.

Peace

 

[Muezzin]

...What does this all have to do with literacy or illeteracy?

 

[YusufNoor]

Greetings,


So your religion encourages you to be divisive?

not at all. just careful. you cannot guarantee peace to someone who has no interest in peace with you. makes perfect sense.


I'm sure you've done a good job of interpreting the words, but the very fact that you've had to write so much by way of explanation proves that the original text is not at all clear.

it was clear to Muslims!

Peace

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

are non-Muslims NOT understanding it or just doing their best to say that it's not understandable? that's generally [with a sideglance at Whatsthepoint].

don't forget. i usually close with:


:happy:

 

[YusufNoor]

...What does this all have to do with literacy or illeteracy?

meh, i thought i cleared that up: the Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam, was UNLETTERED!

 

[Muezzin]

meh, i thought i cleared that up: the Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alaihe Wa Salaam, was UNLETTERED!

I know. It's just the later posts in the thread have sort of veered away into discussions about prophecies and things

Kindly stay on-topic everybody. Thanks to those who have.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I know. It's just the later posts in the thread have sort of veered away into discussions about prophecies and things

Kindly stay on-topic everybody. Thanks to those who have.

There is a clear connection if you follow the thread all the way through. If the Prophet (pbuh) genuinely was illiterate, then the prophecies might carry more weight.

The discussion has moved on from the original topic in a way that seems perfectly natural to me. Is there anything wrong with that? If you think we're now onto a different topic, why not simply turn the second half of the thread into a new one of its own? That's what used to happen.

Peace

 

[------]

:salamext:

Don't you think that there has been enough discussion on this? :-\