Was Zul-Qarnain Alexander the Great?

[جوري]

The word Tafsir means an interpretation... Just because someone interpreted it this way doesn't make it so..

 

[جوري]

versers in the quran
18:83]
[18:84]
[18:85]
[18:86]
[18:87

Yes I am quite familiar with these verses.. in fact I just quoted you a few of them... No mention of Alex.. go ahead and read suret al-kahf I challenge you to come up with the name alex from the verses...

 

[yahia12]

The verser are familiar with the way Zul-Qarnain was moved forward(historical). and tafsir tell us name alexander. much like life of alexander the great. inshalla i get more facts.

 

[جوري]

وَيَسْأَلُونَكَ عَن ذِي الْقَرْنَيْنِ قُلْ سَأَتْلُو عَلَيْكُم مِّنْهُ ذِكْرًا {83}​

[Pickthal 18:83] They will ask thee of Dhu'l-Qarneyn. Say: I shall recite unto you a remembrance of him.

إِنَّا مَكَّنَّا لَهُ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَآتَيْنَاهُ مِن كُلِّ شَيْءٍ سَبَبًا {84}​

[Pickthal 18:84] Lo! We made him strong in the land and gave him unto every thing a road.

فَأَتْبَعَ سَبَبًا {85}​

[Pickthal 18:85] And he followed a road

حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَغْرِبَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَغْرُبُ فِي عَيْنٍ حَمِئَةٍ وَوَجَدَ عِندَهَا قَوْمًا قُلْنَا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِمَّا أَن تُعَذِّبَ وَإِمَّا أَن تَتَّخِذَ فِيهِمْ حُسْنًا {86}​

[Pickthal 18:86] Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. We said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Either punish or show them kindness.

قَالَ أَمَّا مَن ظَلَمَ فَسَوْفَ نُعَذِّبُهُ ثُمَّ يُرَدُّ إِلَى رَبِّهِ فَيُعَذِّبُهُ عَذَابًا نُّكْرًا {87}​

[Pickthal 18:87] He said: As for him who doeth wrong, we shall punish him, and then he will be brought back unto his Lord, Who will punish him with awful punishment!

وَأَمَّا مَنْ آمَنَ وَعَمِلَ صَالِحًا فَلَهُ جَزَاء الْحُسْنَى وَسَنَقُولُ لَهُ مِنْ أَمْرِنَا يُسْرًا {88}​

[Pickthal 18:88] But as for him who believeth and doeth right, good will be his reward, and We shall speak unto him a mild command.

ثُمَّ أَتْبَعَ سَبَبًا {89}​

[Pickthal 18:89] Then he followed a road

حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ مَطْلِعَ الشَّمْسِ وَجَدَهَا تَطْلُعُ عَلَى قَوْمٍ لَّمْ نَجْعَل لَّهُم مِّن دُونِهَا سِتْرًا {90}​

[Pickthal 18:90] Till, when he reached the rising-place of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had appointed no shelter therefrom.

كَذَلِكَ وَقَدْ أَحَطْنَا بِمَا لَدَيْهِ خُبْرًا {91}​

[Pickthal 18:91] So (it was). And We knew all concerning him.

ثُمَّ أَتْبَعَ سَبَبًا {92}​

[Pickthal 18:92] Then he followed a road

حَتَّى إِذَا بَلَغَ بَيْنَ السَّدَّيْنِ وَجَدَ مِن دُونِهِمَا قَوْمًا لَّا يَكَادُونَ يَفْقَهُونَ قَوْلًا {93}​

[Pickthal 18:93] Till, when he came between the two mountains, he found upon their hither side a folk that scarce could understand a saying.

قَالُوا يَا ذَا الْقَرْنَيْنِ إِنَّ يَأْجُوجَ وَمَأْجُوجَ مُفْسِدُونَ فِي الْأَرْضِ فَهَلْ نَجْعَلُ لَكَ خَرْجًا عَلَى أَن تَجْعَلَ بَيْنَنَا وَبَيْنَهُمْ سَدًّا {94}​

[Pickthal 18:94] They said: O Dhu'l-Qarneyn! Lo! Gog and Magog are spoiling the land. So may we pay thee tribute on condition that thou set a barrier between us and them?

قَالَ مَا مَكَّنِّي فِيهِ رَبِّي خَيْرٌ فَأَعِينُونِي بِقُوَّةٍ أَجْعَلْ بَيْنَكُمْ وَبَيْنَهُمْ رَدْمًا {95}​

[Pickthal 18:95] He said: That wherein my Lord hath established me is better (than your tribute). Do but help me with strength (of men), I will set between you and them a bank.

آتُونِي زُبَرَ الْحَدِيدِ حَتَّى إِذَا سَاوَى بَيْنَ الصَّدَفَيْنِ قَالَ انفُخُوا حَتَّى إِذَا جَعَلَهُ نَارًا قَالَ آتُونِي أُفْرِغْ عَلَيْهِ قِطْرًا {96}​

[Pickthal 18:96] Give me pieces of iron - till, when he had levelled up (the gap) between the cliffs, he said: Blow! - till, when he had made it a fire, he said: Bring me molten copper to pour thereon.

فَمَا اسْطَاعُوا أَن يَظْهَرُوهُ وَمَا اسْتَطَاعُوا لَهُ نَقْبًا {97}​

[Pickthal 18:97] And (Gog and Magog) were not able to surmount, nor could they pierce (it).

قَالَ هَذَا رَحْمَةٌ مِّن رَّبِّي فَإِذَا جَاء وَعْدُ رَبِّي جَعَلَهُ دَكَّاء وَكَانَ وَعْدُ رَبِّي حَقًّا {98}​

[Pickthal 18:98] He said: This is a mercy from my Lord; but when the promise of my Lord cometh to pass, He will lay it low, for the promise of my Lord is true.

وَتَرَكْنَا بَعْضَهُمْ يَوْمَئِذٍ يَمُوجُ فِي بَعْضٍ وَنُفِخَ فِي الصُّورِ فَجَمَعْنَاهُمْ جَمْعًا {99}​

[Pickthal 18:99] And on that day we shall let some of them surge against others, and the Trumpet will be blown. Then We shall gather them together in one gathering.

 

[جوري]

The verser are familiar with the way Zul-Qarnain was moved forward(historical). and tafsir tell us name alexander. much like life of alexander the great. inshalla i get more facts.

Indeed you'll find that zho El Qarnyen and Alex had moved in opposite directions one started from the east to west while the others from west to east... therefore they can't be one in the same...

 

[yahia12]

Zul-Qarnain who is he then?

 

[جوري]

he is who he is (min 3ibad Allah Asa'le7een)-- we should be content with that for now... though my inclination to go with Prophet Solomon PBUH is purely Speculative... based on his status both religiously and by the means of his kingdom and the strength of his person... But it isn't a fact and we may never know... And that is ok.. rather than making a grave mistake of attributing qualities of the righteous to a hedonist.

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

he is who he is (min 3ibad Allah Asa'le7een)-- we should be content with that for now... though my inclination to go with Prophet Solomon PBUH is purely Speculative... based on his status both religiously and by the means of his kingdom and the strength of his person... But it isn't a fact and we may never know... And that is ok.. rather than making a grave mistake of attributing qualities of the righteous to a hedonist.

Zul-Qarnain is not a prophet, which is why he is not named. If Solomon were Zul-Qarnain, then he would have been named as such. There are many contradictary historical accounts with regard to Alexander the Great. Why do you dismiss him as a hedonist? According to the Torah, Solomon had 700 wives!

 

[جوري]

Your point being? I don't take the Torah as my guide!

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

Your point being? I don't take the Torah as my guide!

But you would believe any historical account of Alexander the Great? Is not the Torah just as worthy a historical account? It should be noted that Alexander was also revered by the Jews, being mentioned in the book of Daniel.

 

[جوري]

my inference isn't etched in stones... whereas you don't see Prophet Solomon as having fulfilled certain criteria to be qualified as zho- el-Qarnyen--I don't see Alex as having fulfilled others... I believe at the very fulcrum of it should be his relationship to G-D... under no account is Alex a monotheist... you should see some of the books written about him if they in fact have an accurate historical account the man engaged in homosexual behavior... does that sound like something a man of G-D would do? Further
Zhu el qarnyen means (of two horns)... that is what the term denotes in Arabic--

we had this discussion before on the forum not so long ago.. but I felt it queer for a mother to name her son (of two horns).. I thought it was an alias given to him-- but was kindly corrected by another member that very possible it was his name? we may never know...


on a last note... though many believe Prophet Daniel to be a prophet, there is even a whole street dedicated to him by the marina in port saiid... there is no Islamic record of him, and if you read about him ( the Quran mentions prophets and states there are others we don't know of) from a biblical sense you'll find he (Daniel) has some very questionable traits, pls go ahead and read about him in more details...(traits that we know aren't of G-D's messengers) ... what I mean by that is not to deny that his prophet hood rather, (when the scriptures speak of Prophet Solomon) They don't have an accurate account and don't even pass him off as a prophet rather a (king).. I am able to verify Prophet Solomon's character from an Islamic perspective and it corrects some of these very sketchy views... not so with Daniel so frankly the whole Jewish account of should be negligible... if he were a prophet he isn't described in a flattering manner... and if he was, than I question what scribe described him in such an unflattering manner... thus enables me to dismiss the entire Jewish account of whom Zho- El- Qarnyen) was... I am still inclined to say it is prophet Solomon-- and have stated my reasons above... but will be just as comfortable not knowing at all... He was of the righteous, which Alex wasn't

I must be off for maghrib prayer
peace!

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

my inference isn't etched in stones... whereas you don't see Prophet Solomon as having fulfilled certain criteria to be qualified as zho- el-Qarnyen--I don't see Alex as having fulfilled others... I believe at the very fulcrum of it should be his relationship to G-D... under no account is Alex a monotheist... you should see some of the books written about him if they in fact have an accurate historical account the man engaged in homosexual behavior... does that sound like something a man of G-D would do? Further
Zhu el qarnyen means (of two horns)... that is what the term denotes in Arabic--

we had this discussion before on the forum not so long ago.. but I felt it queer for a mother to name her son (of two horns).. I thought it was an alias given to him-- but was kindly corrected by another member that very possible it was his name? we may never know...


on a last note... though many believe Prophet Daniel to be a prophet, there is even a whole street dedicated to him by the marina in port saiid... there is no Islamic record of him, and if you read about him ( the Quran mentions prophets and states there are others we don't know of) from a biblical sense you'll find he (Daniel) has some very questionable traits, pls go ahead and read about him in more details...(traits that we know aren't of G-D's messengers) ... what I mean by that is not to deny that his prophet hood rather, (when the scriptures speak of Prophet Solomon) They don't have an accurate account and don't even pass him off as a prophet rather a (king).. I am able to verify Prophet Solomon's character from an Islamic perspective and it corrects some of these very sketchy views... not so with Daniel so frankly the whole Jewish account of should be negligible... if he were a prophet he isn't described in a flattering manner... and if he was, than I question what scribe described him in such an unflattering manner... thus enables me to dismiss the entire Jewish account of whom Zho- El- Qarnyen) was... I am still inclined to say it is prophet Solomon-- and have stated my reasons above... but will be just as comfortable not knowing at all... He was of the righteous, which Alex wasn't

I must be off for maghrib prayer
peace!

Firstly, as I stated before, Zul-Qarnain was not a prophet. Solomon was. Therefore Zul-Qarnain could not be Solomon.

Secondly, you deny that Alexander the Great could be a righteous man based on historical accounts. By similar historical accounts one could dismiss Abraham, for according to the Torah he married his own sister (Sarah was his half-sister by the same father). Moses could be dismissed as a murderer. Soloman had 700 wives. Jesus, of course, never married, and according to the Gospels, the one he loved was another man, John. You are very selective as to which historical accounts you believe. You reject the Zul-Qarnain/Alexander orthodoxy for purely political reasons that have nothing to do with truth.

 

[جوري]

You are free to believe what you wish. If the Torah is your doctrine then you are welcome to it and all its contents... I don't judge the characters of the prophets from the accounts written in the Torah or the bible... Do you really want to go down that path? You have written a preamble and have drawn your own conclusion to which I saw more power to you-- I don't see this as a subject to debate, this is simply your belief!

peace

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

You are free to believe what you wish. If the Torah is your doctrine then you are welcome to it and all its contents... I don't judge the characters of the prophets from the accounts written in the Torah or the bible... Do you really want to go down that path? You have written a preamble and have drawn your own conclusion to which I saw more power to you-- I don't see this as a subject to debate, this is simply your belief!

peace

You purposely try to miss the whole point of what I said. Typical woman.

 

[جوري]

Do you have a point? I inferred from the title that you were questioning was Zho El Qarnyen Alex the great. I believe we have replied to adequately.. The answer is apparently is not agreeable with you... Yes I enjoy my typical woman status!

 

[Woodrow]

just a reminder. I get displeased when threads go off topic and even more displeased when personal insults are added.

Please be nice. Address refutations to the topic not to the person.

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

Do you have a point? I inferred from the title that you were questioning was Zho El Qarnyen Alex the great. I believe we have replied to adequately.. The answer is apparently is not agreeable with you... Yes I enjoy my typical woman status!

Speak for yourself. A simple disagreement is not an argument. You haven't made a credible case for anybody other than Alexander being Zul-Qarnain, which leads me to believe that you're not interested in truth.

 

[Abu Zakariya]

That was the view of many Islamic scholars for many hundreds of years after the time of Mohammed. It plainly is the orthodox view. If Alexander the Great is not Zul-Qarnain then who is the Qur'an refering to? Any other candidates such as Cyrus or Solomon are anything but orthodox.

I didn't say that it was Cyrus or Solomon, so this is a red herring.

What I did say is that this isn't, as you say, the Orthodox position. That simply is not true. Some scholars have said that it might be Alexander the Great, others have said that it can't be him. For instance, take a look at what is said in the Tafsir of ibn Kathir (perhaps the most popular Orthodox tafsir book).

 

[جوري]

Speak for yourself.

I believe I have been!

A simple disagreement is not an argument.

Agreed-- so why are you turning it into one?

You haven't made a credible case for anybody

That is true admittedly I have stated we should be content just not knowing, and that it was purely speculative an (inclination) if you will that it might be Prophet Solomon PBUH

other than Alexander being Zul-Qarnain,

I don't see how? is he the default choice even if he doesn't fit the bill?

which leads me to believe that you're not interested in truth.

What sort of logical fallacy is this? An argumentum ad odium?

peace

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

QUOTE=Laith Al-Doory;727164]Speak for yourself.

I believe I have been!

Agreed-- so why are you turning it into one?


That is true admittedly I have stated we should be content just not knowing, and that it was purely speculative an (inclination) if you will that it might be Prophet Solomon PBUH


I don't see how? is he the default choice even if he doesn't fit the bill?

What sort of logical fallacy is this? An argumentum ad odium?

peace
[/QUOTE]

My whole point is that Alexander is not the default choice if you bother to read the original thread. To argue that he could not have been a believer shows an ignorance of the culture of ancient Greece. Secondly, there are lurid historical accounts about just about any historical figure one could care to mention; that doesn't make them true. Thirdly, as one of the most important figures in history in defining our modern age, it would seem odd that he was not mentioned in the Qur'an, which is after all, for the most part a historical account of acient times in the Middle East.