We are sorry

[Sis786]

You live in a society where people are not jailed for cartoons any more. You do not think that is somehow related to your ability to protest peacefully??

Yes i do agree with this! But again it was a few that went overboard and errupted to violence NOT ALL. Majority of the demonstrations have been peaceful BUT its a shame that MEDIA pick and choose what they want the public to see.

I did not think you were talking about yourself. If you put religious people in charge of science or in charge of determining what scientists can or cannot say, they will decide that the Bible or the Quran or the Torah or whatever is a better source of Truth than experiments. And everywhere scientists have been forced to "respect" the feelings of the pious they have been persecuted. You can choose between respect for science or respect for religion. But I don't think you can choose both. Perhaps you can think of a society where that was true??

As a Muslim i obviously choose Religion over Science. But that doesnt mean I disrespect one. I might not agree with ALL the theories that some of the scienist come up with BUT i dont DISRESPECT them.

So you see the problem - I can have free speech as long as I do not say anything you find offensive. It is odd that you think British society should respect your mores, but you do not need to respect British ones. I agree it is rude to say bad things about peoples' mothers or about the religious figures. But society also needs to protect people who want to talk about peoples' mothers and religious figures.?

Nope i said YOU can say something that is offensive BUT there is a manner in which you must say it and a reason as to why you are saying it. In particular the Media need to be careful. They are aware that what they are printing in thier papers will be published and this can reflect opinion on a certain subject. Now if you have that POWER you must NOT abuse it! Thats MY POINT!

I think the holy place of the Sikhs is in Amristar in India. There are a lot fewer Churches now. There are vastly fewer Hindus and Sikhs. A few mosques were vandalised by criminals in the West. I do not just hear one event. I can read books - have you ever read the Chachnama? I can go, and have been, to cities in the Middle East. Can you name a city in the Middle East that is not full of Churches or Temples that are now mosques? How many mosques can you name that are now Churches?

Nope i havnt read this book. And i cant asnwer your question But if there are a majority of Muslims in a Country then is there a need to have hundreds and hundreds of Churches and other places of worship. In Muslims countries there are places of worship to accomadate the people that are NOT muslim. Execpet in Saudi where i dont think there are any!

But places like Pakistan and Malaysia and Indonesia have places of worship for people who are not Muslim. But there are MORE mosques are there are MORE Muslims. For example Britain when my dad came to this country he had to travel miles to go to a Mosques as there were few Muslims and therefore NOT a need for a mosque on every corner. Now Thanks be to Allah There are 78 mosques in the City i live in alone and this has increased due to the increase of Muslims!

 

[HeiGou]

Yes i do agree with this! But again it was a few that went overboard and errupted to violence NOT ALL. Majority of the demonstrations have been peaceful BUT its a shame that MEDIA pick and choose what they want the public to see.

The media is highly predictable - they will go with good pictures. And those protests were very good pictures. Deny them the pictures and they will not show the story. Unfortunately the peaceful majority do not provide good pictures. It is a shame, but I think that opinion within the Western Muslim community is changing and they are recognising that this sort of thing is counter-productive. I wonder how many opinion polls have been taken on issues like informing the police of terror plots, or support for Al-Qaeda.

As a Muslim i obviously choose Religion over Science. But that doesnt mean I disrespect one. I might not agree with ALL the theories that some of the scienist come up with BUT i dont DISRESPECT them.

I am not really talking about respect, but about the right of scientists to do their work. If a group of radicals decided that some forms of scientific research was un-Islamic, do you think they ought to do it or teach it?

Nope i said YOU can say something that is offensive BUT there is a manner in which you must say it and a reason as to why you are saying it. In particular the Media need to be careful. They are aware that what they are printing in thier papers will be published and this can reflect opinion on a certain subject. Now if you have that POWER you must NOT abuse it! Thats MY POINT!

I have no problem with that as a point and the newspapers in Britain have been careful. I don't think any of them have published it. But that goes both ways. That Danish imam had the power to take those cartoons to the Middle East and he chose to do so. He ought to have been more careful. Presumably he got what he wanted.

Nope i havnt read this book.

Well may I recommend you do and think about it from a Hindu perspective.

And i cant asnwer your question But if there are a majority of Muslims in a Country then is there a need to have hundreds and hundreds of Churches and other places of worship. In Muslims countries there are places of worship to accomadate the people that are NOT muslim. Execpet in Saudi where i dont think there are any!

As I understand Islamic law, non-Muslims are allowed to keep, but not repair, old religious sites that pre-date the Muslim conquest (as long as they are not pagan or Hindu or Buddhist), but not build new ones. Except in Saudi and the Arabian peninsular as a whole where all forms of religion except Islam is forbidden.

But places like Pakistan and Malaysia and Indonesia have places of worship for people who are not Muslim. But there are MORE mosques are there are MORE Muslims.

That is not really the point though is it?

For example Britain when my dad came to this country he had to travel miles to go to a Mosques as there were few Muslims and therefore NOT a need for a mosque on every corner. Now Thanks be to Allah There are 78 mosques in the City i live in alone and this has increased due to the increase of Muslims!

And the tolerance of the British. They could have enforced an equivalent law to the Muslims and not allowed the building of any new mosques. But they did not. They accepted Muslims, they respected their religion, they allowed them to build mosques and do dawa. They must be pretty annoyed by now that their hospitality has been abused so badly.

 

[Christian_dove]

The Taliban in Afghanistan destroyed some of the most valuable and important religious icons of the world. I saw them blast the statues into pieces with hand held bazookas. What a shame, I mean, I am not a buddhist, but those were really beautiful architectural wonders...

http://www.usatoday.com/news/science/archaeology/2001-03-22-afghan-buddhas.htm

 

[mizan_aliashraf]

They are threatening to kill us, because muslims are burning our flags and burning our embassies.

'Our' Flags?' Subhanallah, you are a Muslim! The only flag you should consider to be yours is the black one with the Shahadah.
'Our Embassies?' You are a Muslim. You may not live in a muslim country, but you are a muslim so it is not 'your embassy'
There is no nationalism in islam
Wassalam

 

[Christian_dove]

'Our' Flags?' Subhanallah, you are a Muslim! The only flag you should consider to be yours is the black one with the Shahadah.
'Our Embassies?' You are a Muslim. You may not live in a muslim country, but you are a muslim so it is not 'your embassy'
There is no nationalism in islam
Wassalam

No offense, but what utter nonsense. A muslim living in Denmark is obviously danish. A christian living in Ethiopa is Ethiopian. You are confusing nationality with faith. These are two completely different things...

 

[Ghazi]

No offense, but what utter nonsense. A muslim living in Denmark is obviously danish. A christian living in Ethiopa is Ethiopian. You are confusing nationality with faith. These are two completely different things...

Salaam I agree but and disagree, today muslims have been divided by culture and nationality, I think muslims should remember their culture, but as the brother said above should unite under one flag.

 

[mizan_aliashraf]

Peace
We as muslims are not divided by colour, race, sex, disability or anything else. We all unite under the banner of our shahadah (testimony of faith). that is what i meant about the danish flag and embassy. Its just sad that muslims today are so divided.

 

[Sis786]

No offense, but what utter nonsense. A muslim living in Denmark is obviously danish. A christian living in Ethiopa is Ethiopian. You are confusing nationality with faith. These are two completely different things...

You cant have both! All Muslims idenitiy is thier religion Nationality is something on our Passports it doesnt mean anything! What i am trying to say YES i am a Muslim and YES im living in Britain. I consider myslef a Muslim British, If i was to leave Britain i wont remain a British BUT my Faith will go with me and this is the true idenity.

Its Nationality and Racism that leads to Hatred amoung people. Look at Malcom X he went to Hajj and he was overcome with the way a Black Brother Stood next to a WHITE Brother and HOW even the ROYAL FAMILY (SAUDI) Have the same colour and gown as the SHOE CLEANER FROM MOROCCO.

Islam is about Peace and Peace can only be achieved if we break the borders that divide us, RACE, SEX, AGE, etc etc

 

[Christian_dove]

You cant have both! All Muslims idenitiy is thier religion Nationality is something on our Passports it doesnt mean anything! What i am trying to say YES i am a Muslim and YES im living in Britain. I consider myslef a Muslim British, If i was to leave Britain i wont remain a British BUT my Faith will go with me and this is the true idenity.

Its Nationality and Racism that leads to Hatred amoung people. Look at Malcom X he went to Hajj and he was overcome with the way a Black Brother Stood next to a WHITE Brother and HOW even the ROYAL FAMILY (SAUDI) Have the same colour and gown as the SHOE CLEANER FROM MOROCCO.

Islam is about Peace and Peace can only be achieved if we break the borders that divide us, RACE, SEX, AGE, etc etc

Well, in my opinion, a big part of breaking those borders can only happen when you are able to become a part of the society where you and your children actually spend most of your time (in your "new" home country) in stead of physically and mentally separating yourself from it, as many muslims do. There are plenty of problems amongst muslim parents here, some refuse to learn our language, they deny their children to spend time with norwegian children, parents don't show up at school meetings (in some cases, not their kids in school either...), hence not following up their kids education, they have made parts of the bigger cities into ghettos, in stead of moving to for instance north or west in the country, were there are more jobs available and clean, beautiful nature.

Islam has to open up, otherwise I'm afraid good integration will be impossible. The muslims from Pakistan living here are actually more conservative then those back in Pakistan. This is because most pakistanis came from the countryside, and while Pakistan itself has moved further and become more modern, these muslims living here are stuck back in the 70'ies, still following traditions Pakistan followed 30 years ago, thinking this is what it is like back home. We are all confused.

 

[UmmKhadi]

'Our' Flags?' Subhanallah, you are a Muslim! The only flag you should consider to be yours is the black one with the Shahadah.
'Our Embassies?' You are a Muslim. You may not live in a muslim country, but you are a muslim so it is not 'your embassy'
There is no nationalism in islam
Wassalam

If I was in lets say Syria, and needed help because I lets say lost my passport... Where should I go?

Yes exactly, to my homelands embassy... Norwegian embassy, they are the only one who legally can help me get a new passport.

 

[UmmKhadi]

Salaam I agree but and disagree, today muslims have been divided by culture and nationality, I think muslims should remember their culture, but as the brother said above should unite under one flag.

I know what you mean, and I agree. But at the same time, I once converted to islam. Allah only knows the future, we have no guarantee that we will remain muslims. Ofcourse thats what we all wants, and Alhamdulillah, but same time, we have no guarantee... But I will always be what they so "nicely" call "Ethnic Norwegian". I am a Norwegian, nothing can change that. I might change my citizenship, but I will not really *be* something else. Unless my name was Micael Jackson, and I could change myself from a pretty, young, black man, to an ugly, old white woman...

 

[songinwind]

Well, in my opinion, a big part of breaking those borders can only happen when you are able to become a part of the society where you and your children actually spend most of your time (in your "new" home country) in stead of physically and mentally separating yourself from it, as many muslims do. There are plenty of problems amongst muslim parents here, some refuse to learn our language, they deny their children to spend time with norwegian children, parents don't show up at school meetings (in some cases, not their kids in school either...), hence not following up their kids education, they have made parts of the bigger cities into ghettos, in stead of moving to for instance north or west in the country, were there are more jobs available and clean, beautiful nature.

Islam has to open up, otherwise I'm afraid good integration will be impossible. The muslims from Pakistan living here are actually more conservative then those back in Pakistan. This is because most pakistanis came from the countryside, and while Pakistan itself has moved further and become more modern, these muslims living here are stuck back in the 70'ies, still following traditions Pakistan followed 30 years ago, thinking this is what it is like back home. We are all confused.

This is really intresting comment you made .....let me ask you---Did you go to the people you are talking about and put your hand out in friendship? ....as I live here in American, and been in a new area:rollseyes , and i never saw one hand out, or one smile---what I did see, was rude stares, glares, grabbing of kids with "Don't go near thoese peopel"...You know what I am talking about, right .....
I am so Happy that I am a "Muslim", alhamdolillah... ....because you can't hurt me..We are surrounded by something you may never know or understand ..The beautiful life of Islam....and if we stay to ourselves, maybe , just maybe---we were forced too ..no matter what u think, people do feel and know when to stay away...and its all about "attitude" ..which is all I have seen from you in your posts here ....This is My homeland, and just converting to islam, I feel maybe 1/2 of what my fellow muslims feel moving here from another country :X ...
I think it better to ask ourselves "what can I do", instead of "they should, and they shouldn't".....so easy, like islam is---reach out your hand to that new person near u home,,,give a smile...just a little one..to one u see on the street, or stores...You might be shocked:rollseyes ..peace to you...

 

[Christian_dove]

I am so Happy that I am a "Muslim", alhamdolillah... ....because you can't hurt me..We are surrounded by something you may never know or understand

Why would I wanna hurt you? Are you paranoid? How can I reach out to muslim imigrants, I live on the country side, they live in their self made ghettos... I would not go to live with my children in the middle of a big city with all its traffic and pollution. And I don't understand why a whole bunch of muslims would either. And it is not much I can do for those parents who keep their children home from schools or just ignore meetings and following up their kids. I can't do it for them, you know... A "hand in friendship" from my side wont make much of a difference.

"Don't go near thoese peopel"...You know what I am talking about, right

No, as a matter of fact i don't. My kids play with kids from other cultures every single day. It's not a problem for me at all and no matter how much you seem to "know" me, I don't have an "attitude" towards people based on their belief or color, in fact my own children are a blend of two cultures, so just cut it.

You are surrounded by something I may never know or understand??? Oh, that sounds wonderful, now I feel terrible for not being able to share that fantastic "something" with you... Stop looking down on people who don't share your religion! I could say the exact same thing to you, I am surounded by something you may "never know or understand", but it sounds so pathetic I wouldn't. It isn't very respectfull.

 

[songinwind]

Why would I wanna hurt you? Are you paranoid? How can I reach out to muslim imigrants, I live on the country side, they live in their self made ghettos... I would not go to live with my children in the middle of a big city with all its traffic and pollution. And I don't understand why a whole bunch of muslims would either. And it is not much I can do for those parents who keep their children home from schools or just ignore meetings and following up their kids. I can't do it for them, you know... A "hand in friendship" from my side wont make much of a difference.

No, as a matter of fact i don't. My kids play with kids from other cultures every single day. It's not a problem for me at all and no matter how much you seem to "know" me, I don't have an "attitude" towards people based on their belief or color, in fact my own children are a blend of two cultures, so just cut it.

You are surrounded by something I may never know or understand??? Oh, that sounds wonderful, now I feel terrible for not being able to share that fantastic "something" with you... Stop looking down on people who don't share your religion! I could say the exact same thing to you, I am surounded by something you may "never know or understand", but it sounds so pathetic I wouldn't. It isn't very respectfull.

Salam...I am a very respectful person...and I have sat here, seeing u being very rude, with "sly" remarks ....and I am still respectful..and when I spoke of things,," I was talking about people as a whole", not to u solo".....anything I said,,"it was about society as a whole". and not to u --But to a whole group of you's"....and one thing I am not is rude, to you or anyone, I don't even know you...
I look down on no-one...why would I ? In Gods eyes we are all equal...and given "free will" to make choices....you make yours, and thats your right...as I also have the same right...
I can say this ..as I was once where you are...and I got to see and experence the "love" of christains...I chose to be muslim, where I feel things, that u may feel in your own choice of religions....this makes no one better than the other.....
I do have one bit of advice for you tho, "where I am concerned".....Please read what I write carefully, as people tend to have "tunnel vision", which I see you did, as You missed many words I wrote, and picked what you pleased,,,,,,peace to you...and my responces to you have ended...

 

[Christian_dove]

Salam...I am a very respectful person...and I have sat here, seeing u being very rude, with "sly" remarks ....and I am still respectful..and when I spoke of things,," I was talking about people as a whole", not to u solo".....anything I said,,"it was about society as a whole". and not to u --But to a whole group of you's"....and one thing I am not is rude, to you or anyone, I don't even know you...
I look down on no-one...why would I ? In Gods eyes we are all equal...and given "free will" to make choices....you make yours, and thats your right...as I also have the same right...
I can say this ..as I was once where you are...and I got to see and experence the "love" of christains...I chose to be muslim, where I feel things, that u may feel in your own choice of religions....this makes no one better than the other.....
I do have one bit of advice for you tho, "where I am concerned".....Please read what I write carefully, as people tend to have "tunnel vision", which I see you did, as You missed many words I wrote, and picked what you pleased,,,,,,peace to you...and my responces to you have ended...

Sorry if I appear blunt to you, I just don't like to cover up my meanings behind a hazy wall of words. And I am a man, we are as you may now, often a lot more impatient and abrupt than women. That's why we have you to keep the balance. Bear over with me.

 

[songinwind]

Sorry if I appear blunt to you, I just don't like to cover up my meanings behind a hazy wall of words.

whats worse than hazy wall of words....is shy, rude remarks... , as I said...This topic as far as you and me, has ended..I am not here to argur religion...But to learn, and share...a far as why you are here, only you know..... , peace to you... Allah Hafiz

 

[HeiGou]

You cant have both! All Muslims idenitiy is thier religion Nationality is something on our Passports it doesnt mean anything! What i am trying to say YES i am a Muslim and YES im living in Britain. I consider myslef a Muslim British, If i was to leave Britain i wont remain a British BUT my Faith will go with me and this is the true idenity.

At the moment that is your right. And I for one hope you will always retain that right. However if you do not feel yourself to be British in any real sense, how can you complain if more and more British people do not see you as British in any real sense? You should be able to have both. For the moment you can have both.

Its Nationality and Racism that leads to Hatred amoung people. Look at Malcom X he went to Hajj and he was overcome with the way a Black Brother Stood next to a WHITE Brother and HOW even the ROYAL FAMILY (SAUDI) Have the same colour and gown as the SHOE CLEANER FROM MOROCCO.

I would say it is not nationalism or racism that is the problem but the hatred that lies in the hearts of all men and which not enough of us do enough to root out. I think Malcolm X would agree with me. After all it was not those racists that killed him, but his fellow Muslims. Islam was not enough to over come their hatred.

Islam is about Peace and Peace can only be achieved if we break the borders that divide us, RACE, SEX, AGE, etc etc

 

[Sis786]

At the moment that is your right. And I for one hope you will always retain that right. However if you do not feel yourself to be British in any real sense, how can you complain if more and more British people do not see you as British in any real sense? You should be able to have both. For the moment you can have both.

At the momement i can BUT looking at the way things are going i think there will be a time that many mulsims will not be able to pratice thier religion properly and live in this country! Im sure at a time like that All Muslims would need to make a decision and i know which way im going!


I would say it is not nationalism or racism that is the problem but the hatred that lies in the hearts of all men and which not enough of us do enough to root out. I think Malcolm X would agree with me. After all it was not those racists that killed him, but his fellow Muslims. Islam was not enough to over come their hatred.

Hmmm I suppose BUT Islam is meant to get rid of that evil. Those that still find this evil in thier hearts are missing something out in the way they are practsing thier religion!

 

[Kittygyal]

well here we go am practising me religion

 

[Christian_dove]

Re: We are sorry x 3

They are sorry:

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1217889.ece

He is probably also sorry (but for other reasons..):

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1223819.ece

And finally the danish imams are sorry:

http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/uriks/spesial/article1224007.ece (this article will probably be translated in Aftenposten in a day or so, it is to be found in the english section..)

They say that they are willing to take 1/3 of the blame for the riots. Actually I think they deserve to be spanked with a frozen salmon and put behind bars for at least 20 years for causing the death of lots of muslims throughout the world. Luckily (yes, luckily!) as far as I know most of those who were killed were violent and fanatic participants of demonstrations, and as it is written, "if you live by the sword you will die by the sword", they did.