We Are Untouchables...

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Keltoi said:
If you add up all the deaths attributed to World War II...well, let's just say its hard to comprehend.
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According to Shaikh Wikipedia, holocaust also claims non-jews lives:

1) Poles - 140,000
2) Russians - 5,000,000
3) Ukrainians - 3,000,000
4) Belarusians - 1,500,000
5) Gypsies - 800,000
6) Serbs - 1,200,000
7) Freemasons - 200,000
8) Communists - 100,000
9) Homosexuals - 25,000
10) Disables - 300,000
10) Jehovah's Witnesses - 5,000
11) Others - 10,000 - includes Africans, Non Japanese Asians, Rich Elites, Prostitutes, Alcoholics, Drug Addicts, Criminals, Pedophiles, feminists, tobacco sellers, astrologists

Plus 6,000,000 Jews - 18,280,000 perished in concentration camps of which 32.82% are Jews...
 
north_malaysian said:
You should mention too the gypsies, poles and ukrainian killed.....jews are not the sole victims of holocaust..:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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:thumbs_up good reply bro! that's exactly what i'm interested to highlight. nobody in their right mind would ever deny the holocaust. but, the jews r not the only who suffers. there r many more who suffers, even during d ww2, all d world. even now. being d victim of d holocaust, doesn't gave d jews of israel d prevelage of turning d tables on others (mainly palestine & now lebanon). they r d victim then, they r not d victim now! any arguments that continuously portrayed them as victims r very much hollow....:omg:
 
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Exactly thats my point too. How could be the victim when they crossed the border with the army. Honestly i can't see which country in this world would do nothing when another country cross his broders with the army.
 
adi8putra said:
:thumbs_up good reply bro! that's exactly what i'm interested to highlight. nobody in their right mind would ever deny the holocaust. but, the jews r not the only who suffers. there r many more who suffers, even during d ww2, all d world. even now. being d victim of d holocaust, doesn't gave d jews of israel d prevelage of turning d tables on others (mainly palestine & now lebanon). they r d victim then, they r not d victim now! any arguments that continuously portrayed them as victims r very much hollow....:omg:
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According to Shaikh Wikipedia, only 32.82% (6 mil) of the holocaust victims are Jews...if we count war casualties in both Asian and European parts in WW2, i think the % will be smaller.....

I mean, gypsies were killed... why nobody dares to give them a country too.
 
north_malaysian said:
According to Shaikh Wikipedia, only 32.82% (6 mil) of the holocaust victims are Jews...if we count war casualties in both Asian and European parts in WW2, i think the % will be smaller.....

I mean, gypsies were killed... why nobody dares to give them a country too.
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hahaha... just asked that to guyabano:p
 
Dear all, i came acrross some articles when searching d net & find it somehow a little bit disturbing. just go through d link provided & give some comments on it. it is written by Professor Israel Shahak. i would like to hear some opinion on this. thanks.

Murder and Genocide

ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH religion, the murder of a Jew is a capital offense and one of the three most heinous sins (the other two being idolatry and adultery). Jewish religious courts and secular authorities are commanded to punish, even beyond the limits of the ordinary administration of justice, anyone guilty of murdering a Jew. A Jew who indirectly causes the death of another Jew is, however, only guilty of what talmudic law calls a sin against the 'laws of Heaven', to be punished by God rather than by man.

When the victim is a Gentile, the position is quite different. A Jew who murders a Gentile is guilty only of a sin against the laws of Heaven, not punishable by a court.1 To cause indirectly the death of a Gentile is no sin at all.2

Thus, one of the two most important commentators on the Shulhan Arukh explains that when it comes to a Gentile, 'one must not lift one's hand to harm him, but one may harm him indirectly, for instance by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice .., there is no prohibition here, because it was not done directly:3 He points out, however, that an act leading indirectly to a Gentile's death is forbidden if it may cause the spread of hostility towards Jews.4

A Gentile murderer who happens to be under Jewish jurisdiction must be executed whether the victim was Jewish or not. However, if the victim was Gentile and the murderer converts to Judaism, he is not punished.5

All this has a direct and practical relevance to the realities of the State of Israel. Although the state's criminal laws make no distinction between Jew and Gentile, such distinction is certainly made by Orthodox rabbis, who in guiding their flock follow the Halakhah. Of special importance is the advice they give to religious soldiers.

Since even the minimal interdiction against murdering a Gentile outright applies only to 'Gentiles with whom we [the Jews] are not at war', various rabbinical commentators in the past drew the logical conclusion that in wartime all Gentiles belonging to a hostile population may, or even should be killed.6 Since 1973 this doctrine is being publicly propagated for the guidance of religious Israeli soldiers.

http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/shahak.html#Murder
 
north_malaysian said:
You should mention too the gypsies, poles and ukrainian killed.....jews are not the sole victims of holocaust..:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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This is true. There was also a Russian Holocaust where Stalin killed more people than Hitler did. Not many people talk about it though.
 
adi8putra said:
Dear all, i came acrross some articles when searching d net & find it somehow a little bit disturbing. just go through d link provided & give some comments on it. it is written by Professor Israel Shahak. i would like to hear some opinion on this. thanks.

Murder and Genocide

ACCORDING TO THE JEWISH religion, the murder of a Jew is a capital offense and one of the three most heinous sins (the other two being idolatry and adultery). Jewish religious courts and secular authorities are commanded to punish, even beyond the limits of the ordinary administration of justice, anyone guilty of murdering a Jew. A Jew who indirectly causes the death of another Jew is, however, only guilty of what talmudic law calls a sin against the 'laws of Heaven', to be punished by God rather than by man.

When the victim is a Gentile, the position is quite different. A Jew who murders a Gentile is guilty only of a sin against the laws of Heaven, not punishable by a court.1 To cause indirectly the death of a Gentile is no sin at all.2

Thus, one of the two most important commentators on the Shulhan Arukh explains that when it comes to a Gentile, 'one must not lift one's hand to harm him, but one may harm him indirectly, for instance by removing a ladder after he had fallen into a crevice .., there is no prohibition here, because it was not done directly:3 He points out, however, that an act leading indirectly to a Gentile's death is forbidden if it may cause the spread of hostility towards Jews.4

A Gentile murderer who happens to be under Jewish jurisdiction must be executed whether the victim was Jewish or not. However, if the victim was Gentile and the murderer converts to Judaism, he is not punished.5

All this has a direct and practical relevance to the realities of the State of Israel. Although the state's criminal laws make no distinction between Jew and Gentile, such distinction is certainly made by Orthodox rabbis, who in guiding their flock follow the Halakhah. Of special importance is the advice they give to religious soldiers.

Since even the minimal interdiction against murdering a Gentile outright applies only to 'Gentiles with whom we [the Jews] are not at war', various rabbinical commentators in the past drew the logical conclusion that in wartime all Gentiles belonging to a hostile population may, or even should be killed.6 Since 1973 this doctrine is being publicly propagated for the guidance of religious Israeli soldiers.

http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/shahak.html#Murder
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Just went to your link and it has absolutely no credibility.
 
Geronimo said:
This is true. There was also a Russian Holocaust where Stalin killed more people than Hitler did. Not many people talk about it though.
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Reading Soljenitin's books i realised communism has killed lot of people and destroyed innocent lifes for good. The russian authorities never kept an evidence of the murdered people so we will never can find out the real number of those who died in Siberia and other camps.
 
north_malaysian said:
According to Shaikh Wikipedia, holocaust also claims non-jews lives:

1) Poles - 140,000
2) Russians - 5,000,000
3) Ukrainians - 3,000,000
4) Belarusians - 1,500,000
5) Gypsies - 800,000
6) Serbs - 1,200,000
7) Freemasons - 200,000
8) Communists - 100,000
9) Homosexuals - 25,000
10) Disables - 300,000
10) Jehovah's Witnesses - 5,000
11) Others - 10,000 - includes Africans, Non Japanese Asians, Rich Elites, Prostitutes, Alcoholics, Drug Addicts, Criminals, Pedophiles, feminists, tobacco sellers, astrologists

Plus 6,000,000 Jews - 18,280,000 perished in concentration camps of which 32.82% are Jews...
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Well, I meant if you add up all the civilians and soldiers killed in WWII, it makes the Holocaust itself pale in comparison. Not that I'm making light of the Holocaust, before I'm accused, but as horrific as this event was, the death toll from the war itself was far more horrific.
 
Keltoi said:
Well, I meant if you add up all the civilians and soldiers killed in WWII, it makes the Holocaust itself pale in comparison. Not that I'm making light of the Holocaust, before I'm accused, but as horrific as this event was, the death toll from the war itself was far more horrific.
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So should we only concern ourselves with that which was the "MOST" horrific?
 
wilberhum said:
So should we only concern ourselves with that which was the "MOST" horrific?
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Of course not, I'm only mentioning the huge cost of World War II as a whole. I think sometimes when people think of WWII they automatically think of the Holocaust. Nothing wrong with that, it was a horrific event. As a student of history, I tend to look at things on a large scale, and millions upon millions of people who died as a direct result of WWII is almost beyond comprehension. Like I stated earlier, I'm not making light of the Holocaust, only pointing the broader cost of WWII itself.
 
Keltoi
Thanks, Maybe I’m a little sensitive after, what I conceder, a cheap shot by Ähmed with his “11 September Tribute to Innocent Victims of Terrorism” post.
 
Geronimo said:
Just went to your link and it has absolutely no credibility.
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i'm posting it just 4 it 2 be examined by others....& hv some comments on it. if u think that it hv no credibility, that's fine! just like what i've said, it is written by one Professor Israel Shahak (he is supposed 2 be a jew, i presumed?). but please give reasons for it. as i also would luv 2 know ur reason behind it...:uuh:
 

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