What about animals?

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VegetarianSoul

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I never saw exclusivly any animal killing or slaughtering in factory farms , but I was aware something is just not right about it. Everything is kept so much hidden from people that they dont actually see or realise it. And then I watched one video where a piglet was left consciously bleeding to death, was painfully crying a LOT just that sound touched my heart and I wished I could go and stop it, I felt really horrible.

And too many diseases. Mad cow disease is just another horror in meat industry, when I read about it I was very disgusted to hear that they even feed garbage of blood,carcass waste from slaughter industry, to herbivorous cattles eventually bringing diseases like MAD COW disease, you can check that out. . The government has tightened cattle-feed rules, but loopholes still permit cattle blood as a milk substitute and chicken waste as a protein supplement. If you live in U.S. or Canada you probably know that it remains common to include the blood, bone, and unwanted flesh of all types of farmed animals in the feed of chickens, turkeys, and pigs,etc which is illegal in Europe and Japan
 
I never saw exclusivly any animal killing or slaughtering in factory farms , but I was aware something is just not right about it. Everything is kept so much hidden from people that they dont actually see or realise it. And then I watched one video where a piglet was left consciously bleeding to death, was painfully crying a LOT just that sound touched my heart and I wished I could go and stop it, I felt really horrible
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If you analyse the teeth of the cow , you would notice that it has grinding teeth fit for chewing grass and leaves where as the Lion has canines to tear flesh . We humans have both types of teeth . If God almighty wanted us to be Vegetarians, he would have given us grinding teeth

And its not just animals that feel pain , Today scientists have proven that Plants suffer pain as well , pain is felt and NOT seen.

do you think that killing plants is better than animals just because plants dont show feelings , i dont think so . I would say you killed something that cannot flee or defend itself is worse ,for eg : how killing a physically challenged person is worse than killing a normal person ,because a normal person would give a tough fight


Its not just man who kills other living thing . Carniovorous animals kill humans as well .

There is nothing wrong in being a non-vegetarian
Brother ,we cannot survive in this world without killing another living thing be it a plant or an animal
 
Hi, Vegetarian soul.
I've been looking at some posts about the vegetarian issue that you've spread over this forum. I very rarely eat meat, and feel much more peaceful and mellow when I haven't eaten any. If eating meat would have been forbidden, I don't think it would have been that hard on me. That being said, I must say that while I grant most of the things you say are right, you are making some slippery-slope deductions. You seem to have this narrow view where things are either right or wrong, and there are no grey zones in-between.

For example, even if there are many important issues with the food-industry; that doesn't mean that all sorts of meat-consumption is bad/immoral right?

On another note, I find some offence in your claim that choosing to be a vegetarian is the compassionate choice; which kind of infers that choosing not to, is the opposite of compassionate. it is incredibly difficult to actually demonstrate that eating meat is immoral by use of logical argument rather then appealing to emotions by using cleverly montaged videos. I'd like to invite you to attempt to build arguments to back that up; be them from a either a philosophical, sociological, psychological or scientific point of view. I hold that it cannot be done without first taking extreme premises. You're welcome to prove me wrong, but until you have; I'd advice you to not be so condescending against those who choose to eat meat after all.
 
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Animals have rights in Islam, if you look up, there is no toher religion in the world that gives rights to animals as Islam does, not even animal right groups. :D You don't have to be a vegeterian to give an animal its right back. There is an hadith which I don't remember well, which says that you most treat an animal very well even if you're going to slaughter it. This is rather a poor collection of memory, it's better if you do some research on animal rights in Islam. I am sure you find plent of satisfying information.:)

Peace
 
I've been looking at some posts about the vegetarian issue that you've spread over this forum.
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Yes, 3 threads have been posted by him on the same topic already .


http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134284776-vegetarianism-islam.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134291207-how-can-you.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/134284787-soul-concept.html

Cant understand why the same subject is being raised again and again by the same person again , even after having received the answers
 
AlHoda said:
Animals have rights in Islam, if you look up, there is no toher religion in the world that gives rights to animals as Islam does, not even animal right groups. :D You don't have to be a vegeterian to give an animal its right back. There is an hadith which I don't remember well, which says that you most treat an animal very well even if you're going to slaughter it. This is rather a poor collection of memory, it's better if you do some research on animal rights in Islam. I am sure you find plent of satisfying information.:)

Peace
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Here is an excellent article

http://islam.thetruecall.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=296
 
:sl:,

Islam has always had a superior treatment of animals than any other religion, while at the same time avoiding making idols of them, as extremist groups such as PETA do. In fact, I believe that this obsession with animals is an atheistic neurosis, based on the West's idea of universal empathy but without the restraint of religion. Here's an excerpt from an article I wrote about Islam and animals for an Islamic blog.

This clip may call out some strange imagining; some distant vision of myriad worlds, bound to geodesics like notes to melodies; some starless vision of alien oceans. We see sea life orbiting in liquid ellipses; a thousand lives swimming, floating, like space debris, or the sounds in an unwritten symphony; soft against faintly-curved gravity, governed in the finest grain of time, like planets and stars under glass, and indifferent.

Naturally, I expected to see appreciative comments for this video, and truly appreciative, at the very least, for offering a moment's escape from internet inanity. I was, then, quite surprised to see comments such as the following, which follow this clip wherever it's posted.

1) Mixed feelings ... As a Scuba Diver I want to do nothing but get in there , But as a Person all I want to do is to put them back in the Sea where they belong . They are so wonderfull. But it dose WOW me.

2) It's so beautiful, but at the same time its very sad to know that those animals are stuck in a box with no freedom to swim where they wish, being surrounded by people who watch them all the time. It's sort of like prison to me.

3) Or you can look at it as cages and the animals can't escape. These animals are meant to have HUGE areas to swim in and swim miles and miles. They need that. It is not our right to take them away from their natural homes, no matter how it educates us. We can be educated through video and lessons, not imprisoning other species.

Of course, we know that no one truly cares about fish. This is an affected piety to signal one’s commitment to Gaiaism, which is a perversion of a perversion of Christianity.

It's disgusting that Christianity, the foundation of Western culture, has been contorted into these sickening, hyper-feminine worldviews; it becomes more intense and irrational once limits set by tradition and command are stripped away. Its permutability allows for markets and scientific revolutions, but its more strongly imprinted traits inevitably evolve, in the absence of religious dogma, toward totalitarian ideologies.

Mencius Moldbug brilliantly describes the metamorphosis of "mainline progressive Protestantism", the dominant U.S. denomination, into "Universalism" here. TGGP originally noted that Islam seemed the best fit for Moldbug's system.

Read more »
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The slaughtering in Islam was never been kept hidden... actually you can see lots of it in the youtube
 
Thank you all for responding


@Airforce

I am wondering, do we have natural tendencies to jump at the sight of flesh, blood and capture our prey on our own. On the other hand, we loose our appetite at the sight of blood and carcass.

I heard many people compare plants with animals, animals have brains,heart, blood and feel pain just like us humans.
See the video below, my heart goes out to this one imsad how scared these sentient beings are..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUkHkyy4uqw


@Abdul Fattah

I dont know much about vegetarianism in Islam, but I am sure that you can be one, and I am sure that Prophet (PBUH) did have compassion for animals, and If I read it correctly, He was also against imprisonment of birds and animals. Today's factory farms are just horror industries.


@AlHoda

Yes I read somewhere too, that animals should be treated nicely and with compassion. But unfortunately, they have quite miserable fate and live in extreme torture, inside those factory farms.

@ syilla

The slaughtering in Islam was never been kept hidden... actually you can see lots of it in the youtube
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You have a point, the slaughtering is not hidden anymore, slaughter houses are exposed. Someone rightly said that, if slaughterhouses had glass walls, everyone would go vegetarian.
There are many videos that show how it looks like, with dead carcass hanging and blood dripping down their bodies.
 
Airforce said:
If you analyse the teeth of the cow , you would notice that it has grinding teeth fit for chewing grass and leaves where as the Lion has canines to tear flesh . We humans have both types of teeth . If God almighty wanted us to be Vegetarians, he would have given us grinding teeth
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We are equipped to eat whatever was going when, long before agriculture was even thought of, food was hard to come by. That feeble excuse has no currency today.

Quite apart from teeth, cruelty and even pink-and-fluffy issues, though, a far more significant one is that as a source of food meat is so grossly inefficient compared with vegetarian alternatives in terms of the resources needed to produce it. And every day there another 203,800 mouths to feed.
 
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You are right Trumble, we dont have scarcity of resources to feed the hungry and yet global hunger continues to plague hundreds of millions of people around the globe. Land, water, and other resources that could be used to grow food for human beings are being used to grow crops for farmed animals instead. It takes up to 16 pounds of grain to produce just 1 pound of edible animal flesh.

Because the industrial world is exporting grain to developing countries and importing the meat that is produced with it, farmers who are trying to feed themselves are being driven off their land. Their efficient, plant-based agricultural model is being replaced with intensive livestock rearing, which also pollutes the air and water and renders the once-fertile land dead and barren.
 
VegetarianSoul said:
Thank you all for responding


@Airforce

I am wondering, do we have natural tendencies to jump at the sight of flesh, blood and capture our prey on our own. On the other hand, we loose our appetite at the sight of blood and carcass.

I heard many people compare plants with animals, animals have brains,heart, blood and feel pain just like us humans.
See the video below, my heart goes out to this one imsad how scared these sentient beings are..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LUkHkyy4uqw
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Well , What can I say ? I'd say you are just sensitive

By your logic , Every living things has a right to live and Human being cannot survive without killing other living thinks. so I suggest you live on water if you care so much about suffering of other living things .

I am not sure if you read the article posted in the link and let me know what you think


9 Even plants can feel pain
They further argue that plants cannot feel pain, therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime when compared to killing an animal. Today science tells us that even plants can feel pain. But the cry of the plant cannot be heard by the human being. This is due to the inability of the human ear to hear sounds that are not in the audible range i.e. 20 Hertz to 20,000 Hertz.

Anything below and above this range cannot be heard by a human being. A dog can hear up to 40,000 Hertz. Thus there are silent dog whistles that have a frequency of more than 20,000 Hertz and less than 40,000 Hertz. These whistles are only heard by dogs and not by human beings. The dog recognizes the master’s whistle and comes to the master. There was research done by a farmer who invented an instrument which converted the cry of the plant so that it could be heard by human being. He was able to realize immediately when the plant itself cried for water.

10 Killing a living creature with 2 senses less is not a lesser crime. Once a vegetarian argues his case by saying that plants only have two or three senses while the animals have five senses. Therefore killing a plant is a lesser crime than killing an animal.

Suppose your brother is born deaf and dumb and has two senses less as compared to other human beings. He becomes mature and someone murders him. Would you ask the law to give the murderer a lesser punishment because your brother has two senses less? In fact you would say that he has killed a ‘masoom’, an innocent person and you should give the murderer a greater punishment. Islam is not based on such logic.



11 Over population of cattle
If every human being was a vegetarian, it would lead to overpopulation of cattle in the world, since their reproduction and multiplication is very swift. Allah (SWT) in His Divine Wisdom knows how to maintain the balance of His creation appropriately. No wonder He has permitted us to have the meat of the cattle.

12 Cost of meat is reasonable since all aren’t non-vegetarian
I do not mind if some people are pure vegetarian. However they should not condemn non-vegetarians as ruthless. In fact if all Indians become non-vegetarians then personally I would be a loser since the prices of meat would rise



.
 
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I did went through the link you sent me above and let me tell you that no sane person can fall for those arguments.

For instance , the author says that plants have shown sensitivity, so he is trying to equate to that level of pain to animals, who are higher and complex living organisms , who have brains, heart, they bleed when cut.....
and feel similar pain like in humans.
I would like to ask that author if he would feel disgusted at the same level, if he sees a dead body of an animal bleeding and lying or an apple that feel apart from the tree? Ofcourse the brother who is deaf and blind still has a heart and blood running in his body and can feel pain.

Another point that goes on, (which in my opinion is absolute nonsense, forgive me) that if you dont eat animals then the world will become overcrowded. Well, have you heard about extinct dodo bird? And many more birds and animals go on EXTINCT due to hunting, poaching, and so on. Animals on the contrary are RAISED artificially and pumped in hormones and breeded in artificial way, just to meet the requirements of meat industry.
I am happy to learn that in Islam it is mentioned about the balance in nature. Well, when you learn about factory farms, you come to know that there is nothing balanced ( or natural ) about these slaughtering.

Cost of meat is reasonable since all aren’t non-vegetarian
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But the price you pay in nature is quite heavy. Please read my post right above, and you can see the relation world hunger has with meat industry and you will get the point


Peace to you all
 
I would like to ask that author if he would feel disgusted at the same level, if he sees a dead body of an animal bleeding and lying or an apple that feel apart from the tree?
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This question should also be asked to the carnivorous man eating animals and Virus & bacteria that are killing humans , if they feel disgusted by what they're doing to humans .Even plants kill other animals like the Venus's-flytrap, pitcher plants, sundews, and bladderworts
Living things kill one another on this planet and thats the way it is.


Ofcourse the brother who is deaf and blind still has a heart and blood running in his body and can feel pain.
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You missed the point .An animal can fight , struggle or flee , plants dont .

The below video tells us how muslims slaughter the animals unlike others

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WqHzTJMCjA

I am with Abdul Fattah on this one , you have no right to be so condescending on Non-vegetarians atleast among muslims .I dont think you will find many too many buyers here for your logic,so better take your vegetarianism campaign elsewhere.
 
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Well you said in your own words that animals ( due to their higher intelligence) are capable to fight and flee, and have a chance to escape.

But unfortunately, humans capture them forcefully and breed then unnaturally to meet the "demand" , and then these animals and birds live all their lives locked up, in tiny cages, without sunshine , open sky above their head.
In the pool of their vomit, urine, stool and so on.

If you havent seen any slaughterhouse then I suggest you can see some videos online that gives the inside look of how the conditions are for animals and birds. To me, it doesnt look like these animals and birds, are raised with any compassion
 
IVoIIIoVI said:
I agree. And I'm going to eat a steak tonight in honor of VegetarianSoul.
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IVoIIIoVI said:
I'm going to go out with my shotgun this afternoon, and for every post you make, kill a bird.
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I think we got your point the first time <_< In case you actually plan to do it, the number of birds is supposed to be 24 :rollseyes
Why don't you debate with VegetarianSoul instead of making comments like these anyway? :mmokay:
 
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VegetarianSoul said:
Well you said in your own words that animals ( due to their higher intelligence) are capable to fight and flee, and have a chance to escape.

But unfortunately, humans capture them forcefully and breed then unnaturally to meet the "demand" , and then these animals and birds live all their lives locked up, in tiny cages, without sunshine , open sky above their head.
In the pool of their vomit, urine, stool and so on.

If you havent seen any slaughterhouse then I suggest you can see some videos online that gives the inside look of how the conditions are for animals and birds. To me, it doesnt look like these animals and birds, are raised with any compassion
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Its no different from what happens to plants. Please see the below shocking video of what people are doing the poor plants and vegetables and I also dont think they are raised with any compassion , they are grown and then killed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KtmbonxBv8 :cry:
 
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