What are the Responsibilities of a Believer with Regards to an Unbeliever?

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It basically says, now you have read this thread , you are warned. accept islam or burn.
what do u want us to say? do u want us to lie and tell u that if you don't accept islam you will go to heaven??. it's common . I understand if a christian tells me that if u don't believe in Jesus a.s u go to hell. the message is simple.
You accept Islam you get rewarded, u dont, u get punished. Only a stupid/foolish person would not be afraid of punishment. (whatever type of punishment)
 
So reading a thread on a forum explains all there is to know in order to accept Islam as the ultimate truth?

C'mon!
 
barney, I totally don't care. This is forum is to teach people about Islam. You accept Islam or not, I don't care. It;s your choice. you will be judged for youself not me. I will be judged for my own deeds. You take it or leave it.
 
For myself I find that to be a difficult question to answer. I do know that I am responsible for telling as much about Islam as I can in accordance with the abilities and knowledge Allah(swt) has given me. So my first question when a person refuses to accept it is to ask myself "How much of that refusal is my fault?" "Did I fail in presenting Islam as it is, and therefore the person does not know of Islam because I did not explain what it is." " Or did the person understand and is deliberately turning away even tho the believe it is the path they should look deeper into."

The final answer is I will one day have to explain if i truly tried my best to spread knowledge of Allah(swt) The person who refused to accept it will one day have to explain why they did not listen or show show that they truly did not receive enough information to say they had heard of Islam.

The final decision affecting both of us is in the will of Allah(swt).

Just my opinion, astagfirullah.
thanks for your reply.
but it does make a muslim's responsibiliy much more serious than his christian counterpart because of this.
sometimes when you fail it is because most people you are talking to do not have an open mind. for example, i think i am pretty open-minded about islam (and there are a lot of things i like about it), but i am not open minded about joining any religion. you can make the world's best presentation, but you can not unlock another's mind.
but you already know that anyway.
 
what do u want us to say? do u want us to lie and tell u that if you don't accept islam you will go to heaven??. it's common . I understand if a christian tells me that if u don't believe in Jesus a.s u go to hell. the message is simple.
You accept Islam you get rewarded, u dont, u get punished. Only a stupid/foolish person would not be afraid of punishment. (whatever type of punishment)

in order for a person to be afraid of punishment, he must first have to believe in an after-life.
but i agree - you are just telling it like it is in islam.
 
thanks for your reply.
but it does make a muslim's responsibiliy much more serious than his christian counterpart because of this.
sometimes when you fail it is because most people you are talking to do not have an open mind. for example, i think i am pretty open-minded about islam (and there are a lot of things i like about it), but i am not open minded about joining any religion. you can make the world's best presentation, but you can not unlock another's mind.
but you already know that anyway.

you never know :). one my friends was so anti-Islam, that if someone would try to talk to him about Islam would be ready to beat him, but now he is a very pious muslim. :) himself can't understand what happened :)

Whomsoever Allah guides, nobody can lead him astray, but whomsoever Allah leaves astray, nobody can guide him. :)
 
in order for a person to be afraid of punishment, he must first have to believe in an after-life.
but i agree - you are just telling it like it is in islam.
I'm not talking just about the punishment in the afterlife, I'm talking about punishment in general, a person who doesn't have fear from a punishment is not considered as normal. He is either stupid or doesn't comprehend the reality of punishment. Humans should have the feeling of fear and love. There should be a balance between, once cannot exist without the other,otherwise life is degenereated and the world of ilusions and dreams appears.
 
true, but in order to believe in the concept of divine punishment, a person first has to believe in the divine, and the concept in general. and next they have to believe that god wants you to follow a religion. so there have to be some common assumptions in order for the communication to work.
i realize what you are saying is islam's position and there is no need to sugar coat it, but personally, i think showing the good things about islam is much better.
just my 2 cents....
 
barney, I totally don't care. This is forum is to teach people about Islam. You accept Islam or not, I don't care. It;s your choice. you will be judged for youself not me. I will be judged for my own deeds. You take it or leave it.
Yeah sure, and I agree with you. i was just saying in the context of the thread , that writing a few paragraphs on a forum for people to read isnt "accepting Islam" if you read them. And threatening the hellfire is a sure way to put most people off.

Sure for some people, they'll read it and say "Freaking heck! I better accept this!" after reading it, but mayby not so many.:)
 
Hi IbnAbdulHakim:

I do not know how you can interpret that music is forbidden from 31:6.

31:6 - But there are, among men, those who purchase idle tales, without knowledge (or meaning), to mislead (men) from the Path of Allah and throw ridicule (on the Path): for such there will be a Humiliating Penalty.

However, let us assume that these “idle tales” are music, then it is referring to those who purchase it ignorantly for the expressed purpose of misleading others. This seems to indicate that there is a correct use of music.

Hi Malaikah:

It was reported in a saheeh hadeeth from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “In my ummah there will be people who allow fornication/adultery (zina), silk, wine and musical instruments [ma’aazif]. Some people will stay at the side of a mountain, and they will have flocks of sheep. When a poor person comes in the evening to ask them for something he needs, they will say. ‘Come back to us tomorrow.’ Then during the night Allaah will destroy them by causing the mountain to fall upon them, while He changes others into apes and swine. They will remain in such a state until the Day of Resurrection.’”

From this, the shepherds appeared to be punished for not lending assistance. Also, because “musical instruments” is used in this context does not imply that it is forbidden in my opinion. I agree that I may be wrong, but the evidence is certainly inconclusive.

Hi VPB:

Let me apologise for not writing Qur'an correctly. I was unaware that it was incorrect and was not previously instructed. Is this common knowledge and if so, can you direct me to a reputable source for verification? Thank you.

Your response, like that of Malaikah and IbnAbdulHakim seems to indicate that forbidding music is an Islamic tradition rather than a command from God. Please note that if it were a command from God, then it would be the first clear unexplainable case of inconsistency between the Books that came before and what was revealed in the Qur'an. I am therefore encouraged.

Have a great weekend everyone.

Regards,
Grenville
 
Yeah sure, and I agree with you. i was just saying in the context of the thread , that writing a few paragraphs on a forum for people to read isnt "accepting Islam" if you read them. And threatening the hellfire is a sure way to put most people off.

Sure for some people, they'll read it and say "Freaking heck! I better accept this!" after reading it, but mayby not so many.

That's why Allah swt always mentiones punishment and reward, if you read the Qur;an, you see that most of the time they are very close. Some people might not get interested if they are warned for punishment, but some people might get warned by telling them about Paradise. So it depends, some poeple are affected by telling them about punishment, some about the reward. That's why Allah swt talks about both. It's not about just accepting it. Allah swt wants people to look at the creation, contemplate, and reflect. Allah requires people to read, and get knowledge, so they can recognize Allah swt more and more, so that their belief gets stronger everyday.There is no blind faith in Islam, just accept it. You need to understand it. So that's why Allah swt brings examples of unbelievers and believerss, so people can think and see .

verily Allah is most merciful.
 
Let me apologise for not writing Qur'an correctly. I was unaware that it was incorrect and was not previously instructed. Is this common knowledge and if so, can you direct me to a reputable source for verification? Thank you.
thx for your understandings. the Qur'an is the source itself about its name. bc Koran is not a good looking word for Qur'an. It's like calling u Kronfille. :p

Your response, like that of Malaikah and IbnAbdulHakim seems to indicate that forbidding music is an Islamic tradition rather than a command from God. Please note that if it were a command from God, then it would be the first clear unexplainable case of inconsistency between the Books that came before and what was revealed in the Qur'an. I am therefore encouraged.
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I think you didn;t pay attention much to my previous post. but i'll sumarize it for u again,.

1.Scholars are people who have a wider range of knowledge, so they see things further than we do.
2.Scholars know the classification of verses and hadiths for certain topics.
3.Scholars take those verses, and they come up with the answer for a certain issue.
4.or while they comment Qur'an, some ruling are derived.
5.Scholars don't make rulings just for the sake of tradition, or their desires.
6.Qur'an warns about making hallall haram and haram halall.
7.Nothing is made haram in Islam unless there is proof of it.
8.Commands come from God thorught directly and indirectly.
so we don't make rulings based on our own desires. actually everyone loves music, but it's not allowed :) so why would scholars forbid it even if we assume that they follow they own desires?

and I would recommend that the rulings about music, is not a topic which should be discussed with a non-muslim. cuz there are more important topics, much much more than music.
 
and I would recommend that the rulings about music, is not a topic which should be discussed with a non-muslim. cuz there are more important topics, much much more than music.
i understand what you are saying and i don't want to go in to the subject of music, because by now i know the ruling, but i feel that i should tell you that this is a major stumbling block for lots of non-muslims, so it is not as un-important as you may think.
 
Your response, like that of Malaikah and IbnAbdulHakim seems to indicate that forbidding music is an Islamic tradition rather than a command from God.

It is a command from God because the prophet Muhammad pbuh said it was forbidden, he didn't forbid anything based on what he felt like, rather based on what Allah told him to do.

Please note that if it were a command from God, then it would be the first clear unexplainable case of inconsistency between the Books that came before and what was revealed in the Qur'an. I am therefore encouraged.

You mean like how the OT was all about pure monotheism and then the NT is somehow all about a trinity model of God? :)

I think we are rather off topic...
 
i understand what you are saying and i don't want to go in to the subject of music, because by now i know the ruling, but i feel that i should tell you that this is a major stumbling block for lots of non-muslims, so it is not as un-important as you may think.
Yes it is a major stumbling block for major of muslims, that's why I'm saying it's a subject which shouldn't be discussed with non-muslims, bc non-muslims don't have the faith in Allah, and when they see the ruling about music thay might say "woowww, this is extreme, I can't give up music, why would God forbid music...etc". Same thing happened in Arabia, arabs loved so much alchool, that many of them didn't accept Islam just bc they had to give up alchool, that's why Muhammed saws preached the oneness of Allah for 13 years, so when they become firm in belief, they don't say "ohh, but I love it,... but this and that". So when the became firm on their belief, when Muhammed saws got the reveleation about the ruling of alchool, the streets of Madinah we flooded by alchool. that's why I'm saying these are just things that non-muslims should not concentrate bc they don't have the thing of "hugging the tawheed of Allah swt and follow what He ordered through Gabriel a.s -> Muhammed saws".

Non-muslims should only be concentrated on learning about the Tawheed of Allah swt, once they learn that, and they understand and accept it, then they go the the second pillar, and then third ....and after 5 pillars then can go to more detailed things. Embracing Islam in one day is not recommended at all, otherwise it will win on the person and then he will drop it, as Muhammed saws said.

so again I advise non-muslims to concentrate only on learning about the tawheed(oneness of Allah swt).
 
Hi VPB:

Fair enough. Let us not discuss music or other similar traditions. However, these traditions where there is no explicit commandment from God within the Qu’ran is exactly the same issue as Christians and Jews having traditions that have no or at best very weak scriptural support. These traditions are OK once they do not violate what is written or inhibit a relationship with God.

Jesus was very critical about religious leaders whose religious tradition conflicted with God’s commandments as seen in the passage below.

1 Then the Pharisees and some of the scribes came together to Him, having come from Jerusalem. 2 Now when they saw some of His disciples eat bread with defiled, that is, with unwashed hands, they found fault. 3 For the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat unless they wash their hands in a special way, holding the tradition of the elders. 4 When they come from the marketplace, they do not eat unless they wash. And there are many other things which they have received and hold, like the washing of cups, pitchers, copper vessels, and couches.

5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked Him, “Why do Your disciples not walk according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashed hands?” 6 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written:

‘ This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
7 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’

8 For laying aside the commandment of God, you hold the tradition of men —the washing of pitchers and cups, and many other such things you do.”
9 He said to them, “All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is Corban”—’ (that is, a gift to God), 12 then you no longer let him do anything for his father or his mother, 13 making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do.”

14 When He had called all the multitude to Himself, He said to them, “Hear Me, everyone, and understand: 15 There is nothing that enters a man from outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. 16 If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear!”

17 When He had entered a house away from the crowd, His disciples asked Him concerning the parable. 18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?” 20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.” Mark 7:1-23

Regards,
Grenville
 
I suppose if your asking "how should Muslims respond to unbeleivers" in respect to propergating the faith.

I would suggest taking advice from Converts (reverts!) to Islam and promote the aspects of it that they found goodly.
 
However, these traditions where there is no explicit commandment from God within the Qu’ran is exactly the same issue as Christians and Jews having traditions that have no or at best very weak scriptural support.
a 234234234249871348729478923749872194239472 pages book should have been written in order to tell explicitely thing which are haram/hallall.
but that's why we have hadiths which portray the behaviour and the sayings of the Prophet Muhammed saws. and we have hadiths that explicitely say that the time will come when muslims will consider music as lawful. now it depends some scholars grade the hadith in different ways , that's a different thing. but anyways we better drop this topic :)
 

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