What atheism is for?

[Uthman]

Greetings,

From reading these holy books I see far more bits about God hating you worshiping false Gods than God hating you worshiping no God at all.

In Islam, excessively following ones desires at the expense of what Allah has revealed is also a form of associating partners with Allah. In such a case, one is essentially submitting to their desires instead of submitting to Allah and, in the broad sense of the word, taking their desires as their 'God'. Thus, even atheists can be seen as worshipping a 'false God' from this perspective.

 

[JaffaCake]

Everything that is moving is moved by a mover.

Not everything that moves has a mover. Spontaneous radioactive decay changes one stationary particle into two particles moving in opposite direction.

Everything that is caused is caused by something else.

Again, spontaneous radioactive decay breaks this rule.

Therefore, there must be a necessary being whose existence is not contingent on any other being or beings.

First cause argument. Everything must be contingent except this special thing which we've chosen. More holes in that than a teabag.

These degrees assume the existence of an ultimate standard of perfection.

Entirely subjective.

All natural bodies in the world act toward ends.

A mistake in your perception of the world.

 

[Khaldun]

If I might throw in a sie question [I do not mean to hijack the thread]

Is it just me or do alot of members notice an unusually how number of atheists on an Islamic discussion board?

What makes an atheist who denies the very exsistence of God to go out of his way and actually sign up on a forum like this? I mean if this forum wasnt an Islamic forum then I could have seen a reason, but since this is a purely Islamic Forum I am baffled. Maybe I am speaking about myself but I wouldnt sign up in an atheist forum because we disagree on the fundamentals. Or maybe atheist see it upon themselves to save mankind from the opium of the people?

 

[Trumble]

"IMHO an atheist has no more to fear from death than a believer, who will always be in doubt"

This is an emotional argument and is not valid. ''Im not afraid of there being no life after death'' Please refrain from using these fine peices of sophistry.:hiding:

It's not an 'argument' at all, emotional or otherwise; it's an opinion. Please refrain from using technical terms unless you actually understand what they mean. :hiding:

 

[Justufy]

you clearly misunderstand ALL of the five ways, offering simplistic rebuttals, let me rephrase argument number 3: According to Aristotle existing things are said to exist in act and in potency (power) This means that their essence is not made of exactly what they are at some point, but what they have in them to become, they also have the potential to become something entirely different, for example, gold has the potential to become a statue it also has the potential to become floor tiles therefore becoming something different in act, this is what potency is.

potency of beings also includes the possibility of not-being, because all things that exists have potency and the attributes of potency there must necessarily have been a time when nothing existed, In the time when nothing existed it s impossible to derive existence from non existence, even a thousand nothings cannot make the smallest something, this being said something must exist that is necessary in itself and thereby causes in all other things the necessity.

This argument supposes that the opponent holds that things have existed from eternity.

 

[Justufy]

you clearly misunderstand ALL of the five ways, offering simplistic rebuttals, let me rephrase argument number 3: According to Aristotle existing things are said to exist in act and in potency (power) This means that their essence is not made of exactly what they are at some point, but what they have in them to become, they also have the potential to become something entirely different, for example, gold has the potential to become a statue it also has the potential to become floor tiles therefore becoming something different in act, this is what potency is.

potency of beings also includes the possibility of not-being, because all things that exists have potency and the attributes of potency there must necessarily have been a time when nothing existed, In the time when nothing existed it s impossible to derive existence from non existence, even a thousand nothings cannot make the smallest something, this being said something must exist that is necessary in itself and thereby causes in all other things the necessity.
Edit:
And this all men know as God*
as the god concept does not hold any internal contradictions.

 

[KAding]

This is an emotional argument and is not valid. ''Im not afraid of there being no life after death'' Please refrain from using these fine peices of sophistry.:hiding:

I'm not following you. That was a reply to your own statement that "as my last breaths expires into the world.. and bearing the fear, in those lasts instants that I might have been wrong all these years.".

You were the one that started talking about fear, not me. How could me disagreeing with that view be any more an 'emotional argument' than your own assertion that you would still fear God even if you were envision yourself to be an atheist :hiding:?

 

[Justufy]

Not everything that moves has a mover. Spontaneous radioactive decay changes one stationary particle into two particles moving in opposite direction

you cannot use a theory that has been acquired using inductive reasoning to disprove another one that has been acquired with the same reasoning they are on a foot of equality.

 

[KAding]

What brings you to this assumption?

Being dead means not being conscious. I was not conscious before I was born. So I assume when I die I'll similarly will simply not be...ehm...conscious. I will no longer capable of experiencing anything.

But I have to admit, the concept of consciousness is difficult to grasp. What is it exactly? I suspect it is a product (or by-product?) of our brain. We cannot have consciousness when we don't have a body. That much clear, since our physical state determines whether we are conscious or not. Thus we cannot be conscious when we die.

I just don't know to be honest though. But that sounds most reasonable to me.

 

[KAding]

If I might throw in a sie question [I do not mean to hijack the thread]

Is it just me or do alot of members notice an unusually how number of atheists on an Islamic discussion board?

What makes an atheist who denies the very exsistence of God to go out of his way and actually sign up on a forum like this? I mean if this forum wasnt an Islamic forum then I could have seen a reason, but since this is a purely Islamic Forum I am baffled. Maybe I am speaking about myself but I wouldnt sign up in an atheist forum because we disagree on the fundamentals. Or maybe atheist see it upon themselves to save mankind from the opium of the people?

The mere fact that I 'disagree with the fundamentals' is what attracts me to a forum like this. Surely you and I are both reasonable beings? How come we reach such different conclusions then? That baffles me. That is why I am here. To figure that out. I really don't think there is a reason beyond satisfying my personal interest on this subject.

So rest assured, I am not here to save you, nor do I think you need saving . I'm not really that altruistic .

 

[Justufy]

The mere fact that I 'disagree with the fundamentals' is what attracts me to a forum like this. Surely you and I are both reasonable beings? How come we reach such different conclusions then? That baffles me. That is why I am here. To figure that out. I really don't think there is a reason beyond satisfying my personal interest on this subject.

So rest assured, I am not here to save you, nor do I think you need saving . I'm not really that altruistic .

I think it would be possible to correlate Atheism on this board with some of the lowest IQ's.:hiding: Inductive reasoning has led me to this.:hiding:

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I think it would be possible to correlate Atheism on this board with some of the lowest IQ's.:hiding: Inductive reasoning has led me to this.:hiding:

Once again, welcome to the forum. It's refreshing to have someone so intelligent on board.

Peace

 

[Trumble]

you cannot use a theory that has been acquired using inductive reasoning to disprove another one that has been acquired with the same reasoning they are on a foot of equality.

I'm sorry, but that is complete gibberish. Or do you seriously claim, for example, that Newton's law of gravitation is 'on a foot of equality' with Ptolemy's idea that the Earth was at the centre of the universe because all things fell towards it!

I really would suggest you refrain on commenting about other people's IQs when it is quite clear you don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about!

 

[KAding]

I think it would be possible to correlate Atheism on this board with some of the lowest IQ's.:hiding: Inductive reasoning has led me to this.:hiding:

That is not a nice thing to say :hmm:. And quite uncalled for!

I know you are new here, but this is not how we generally interact with each other on this forum.

 

[JaffaCake]

Maybe I am speaking about myself but I wouldnt sign up in an atheist forum because we disagree on the fundamentals. Or maybe atheist see it upon themselves to save mankind from the opium of the people?

You want people to believe what is true rather than what is false, yes? Same thing for me... you make Da'wah, I join an Islamic forum.

 

[JaffaCake]

you clearly misunderstand ALL of the five ways, offering simplistic rebuttals, let me rephrase argument number 3: According to Aristotle existing things are

If they only require a simple rebuttal why would I offer anything more?

An 800 year old theological argument based on 2000+ year old science and philosophy is not a formidable challenge to modern science.