What can we Muslims in the UK do to combat extremism

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Saghas said:
You have no idea...I don't mean to frighten you or anything but I travel in circles that have interaction with these guys and so I know their numbers and their strength. They work tirelessly to push for those "extreme and violent measures". Some of them are insane and racist, but most are very well educated and normal folk who know more about Islam than you would think but they still are fighting to get you guys out...

Here in the US we are used to having wave and wave of immigrants with different religions and cultures but the UK doesn't have that kind of experience. They just don't know how to deal with it.
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Numbers and strength doesn't bother me really. If my time is up then my time is up, nothing i can do can change that.

I grew up with a lot of racism and it took me a while to realise that not all white people are the same so i have no resentment towards white people at all. However i really don't want my son to go through any of that. I was lucky enough to see through all the garbage. Will my son be able to? Who knows....
 
Saghas said:
Yeah, its not just Muslims its all non-white folk really. Agreed, the fear of forced conversion might be there but it is more of a general hatred...unfortunately
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True, but Britain is no wear near as racist as America. The reason many white, lower class working people dislike immigrants in this country is essentially a class issue, not a race issue. Britain has always had more of a problem with class, whereas America has always had more of a problem with race.
 
Uncle Jee said:
I'm getting increasingly fed up of hearing how Muslims in the UK don't do enough to combat extremism, how our silence on extremist matters is deafening and even that by doing nothing we are showing our silent support to extremists.

Now the questions i have are;

1- What can we do about the extremists?
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Educate the true teachings of Islam, try and stop vulnerable young men asking the wrong people for advice, try and stop the wrong people being put in a position where they can give such advice in the first place.

On a macro-level, we have to be able to discuss things civilly with other Muslims - learning to actually talk through disagreements, rather than instantly reacting in a hostile manner to a Muslim who disagrees with our own perceived understanding of Islam. So, the more 'militant' Muslims should not call the more 'peaceful' ones hypocrites simply for thinking differently, and vice versa - instead they should actually discuss their differing interpretations in order to find the middle (and probably correct) ground. All in light of scholars' interpretations, with the Quran and Sunnah on the highest rung of the intellectual ladder.

2 - How can we distance ourselves from them?
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Well, if the more jittery members of the Islam-hating (sorry, terrorism hating) proponents of the war on terror are to be believed, terrorists (the 'evil' Muslims) plot in secret, undetectable, and yet their 'good and righteous' counterparts are expected to somehow detect and prevent these people from committing atrocities. Which the 'evil' ones plot in secret. Which means they lie to others. Which means they're not easy to detect. Which means you probably won't find them unless you're actively looking for them. Which means this is the job of secret service types.

3 - Will Joe public ever be happy with any of our efforts?
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If the Internet is to be believed, Joe Public views the perceived silence of Muslims regarding terrorism with suspicion, and focuses only on the minority who celebrate such atrocities. You know, the 'Judge the Group by the Vocal Troublemaking Minority Who Nobody Else in the Same Group Agrees With' method.

If we are to regard this approach as accurate, then according to this thread about a prominent Muslim unequivocally condemning terrorism, in which the sole non-Muslim member replying at the time of writing, expresses dissatisfaction over the most ridiculous of semantic points - then no, Joe Public will never be happy with any of our efforts.

Fortunately, I think that judging an entire group by its vocal minority of troublemakers is idiotic, if predictable human behaviour.

Also, since when has preventing terrorism had anything to do with placating Joe Public? If we want to help stop a problem, we have to do so out of a genuine desire to solve the problem, not to win over the crowd. That's not to say winning over the crowd is not desirable or neccessary, it's just popularity or reputation should not inform a person's decision to help solve the problem of terrorism.

4 - Any other idea on how we can actually change public opinion that the majority of Muslims are normal folk etc etc...
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Just live your life as a good Muslim, law-abiding citizen, hard worker, and friendly presence, without getting involved in terrorism.

Which is what 99% of Muslims (and people in general) are doing (or trying to do) anyway.

I don't really believe in 'changing public opinion'. It's too fickle. Other people will think what they think.

5 - Anything?
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If you want to help solve the problem of terrorism, don't make popularity your motivation.
 
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Saghas said:
Show them that you don't want to convert all of them .........
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I agree. Muslims can live by their values and at the same time show that they don't want to convert anybody.

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I feel Islamist extremism is a more accurate term as it (1) avoids labeling an act of terrorism as "Islamic" whilst (2) focusses on the acts itself rather than getting sidetracked into niqabs and other such issues.

Watching the Dispatches programme it is obvious that the internet plays a huge role in creating Islamist extremists. The internet allows extremists to meet other extremists quite easily even though they may live worlds apart. This makes it easier to recruit vulnerable people and feed them with propaganda.

But our (Western) foreign policy doesn't help. Our governments created alot of the resentment which fuels this propaganda.

Realistically I agree with Br. Uthman - if the khutbas are in English this will prevent Muslim children who perhaps cannot speak Arabic or Urdu from being alienated by their own community. This would be quite easy to do and would have widespread effects.

I also feel we should avoid getting into discussions about the 'end times' as this always carries a sense of complacent fatalism where one accepts that there is no hope for peaceful coexistence. We have to believe that there is.
 
Isnt just weird how the termonology 'extremist' has been related to Islam in recent years.

Never heard of such word back in early 90's... until recently...

Any excuse needed to go against a peaceful religion..

With regards to Khutbas in English, what about all the brothers that don't understand English and prefer them to be in their own language..

One way to solve this problem is to bring in the khilafah system....
 
The_Prince said:
you can do nothing, no matter what you do, they will still attack and demonize you, that is until you follow their religion, their culture, and their way. the Quran already told us this, they will NEVER be satisfied with you until you do this.

now im not saying we should not combat the extemists, because we should, but what i am saying is dont count your chickens, dont believe for one second that even if you do manage to combat the extremists and shut them up that all of a sudden the anti-Islamic anti-Muslim bigotry will go away.

many anti-Islamic are already comming and out and saying that all Muslims are the same, all radical, all bad, and no such thing as a moderate, that Islam itself is violent and extreme. that Muslims who do good and combat the bad guys are merely using deception to dupe the none-Muslims to eventually take them over.

what does the burqa, hijab, mosque minaret, halal food, and Islamic banking have to do with extremism???? to many western secularists they want to outright ban all of these things, and always demonize such principals as evil, and backward, and barbaric! also dont forget that if you support Palestine and the right to resist Israel you are an extremist as well, and that if you dont fully agree with western foreign policy and oppose it, then you are also an extremist.

heck if your a Muslim who supports Sharia, and wants Sharia in the Muslim world you will also be labelled as an extremist!

last but not least, the last i checked, it was white english hooligans going around england protesting and causing violence and mayhem on the streets of england, costing the government millions of pounds during an econamic recession, so who are the real extremists here, and who should really be combated?
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that.

.............
 
waqas maqsood said:
Isnt just weird how the termonology 'extremist' has been related to Islam in recent years.

Never heard of such word back in early 90's... until recently...
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Not really.

'Extremist' is now used to describe people who take their personal beliefs, religious beliefs or political beliefs to extreme levels. Au contrare from being a term invoked by anti-muslims it appears to be a term negotiated in defence of the mainstream Muslim. After all, it is rather self-defeating to use the term 'extremist' (the abnormal by definition) in order to attempt to discredit the average Muslim. Just consider how it is used.
 
lol... equivalent to a wikipaedia answer..

So is it wrong to take your religion belief to an extreme level?
 
waqas maqsood said:
lol... equivalent to a wikipaedia answer..

So is it wrong to take your religion belief to an extreme level?
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I gave you an explanation for why I think the term 'extremist' exists. Lets put it into perspective (and I don't believe it was concoted by anti-muslims): I do not expect someone who despises Islam and/or Muslims is going to distinguish a difference between an 'extremist' and a 'moderate'. They are far more likely to consider all Muslims an issue rather than just some of the more literal or devoted ones.

In any case, it can be wrong to take your religious belief to an 'extreme' level, yes. A Christian who demands that the United States ought to be run by specific moral standards found in the old testament proposes dangerous stuff. People similarly who vote to remove the rights of others based on their own beliefs are wrong in doing so. It matters not to me (in a moral sense), whether the actions of someone is 'extreme' or not but rather how they impact on the lives of others.
 
Skavau said:
I gave you an explanation for why I think the term 'extremist' exists. Lets put it into perspective (and I don't believe it was concoted by anti-muslims): I do not expect someone who despises Islam and/or Muslims is going to distinguish a difference between an 'extremist' and a 'moderate'. They are far more likely to consider all Muslims an issue rather than just some of the more literal or devoted ones.

In any case, it can be wrong to take your religious belief to an 'extreme' level, yes. A Christian who demands that the United States ought to be run by specific moral standards found in the old testament proposes dangerous stuff. People similarly who vote to remove the rights of others based on their own beliefs are wrong in doing so. It matters not to me (in a moral sense), whether the actions of someone is 'extreme' or not but rather how they impact on the lives of others.
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Well.. I guess everyone is entitled to share their opinion...

I can now see why country like France wanted to dissociated religion from politics..

I totally disagree with the concept that it is wrong to take your religion belief to an extreme level.
You just quoted that if a Christian demands the US to be ran by specific moral stadards found in the Old testament proposes to be dangerous stuff..... THEN THATS WHAT I CALL TERRORISM..
 
It all depends on the definition of extreme...

I would describe most main stream Muslims as 'extremely' self centred and lazy in their "affections" of their "brothers and sisters" who are being slaughtered on an almost daily basis around the globe.

So many arm chair warriors!
 
Tribalism is the problem, not the solution. If you think about your "muslim brothers and sisters" instead of just fellow human beings and get all enraged in a tribal way, you are falling into exactly the same mind trap that the westerners do, the ones who count the american soldiers and civilians who died (their tribe) in Iraq but paid no attention to how many Iraqis died (not their tribe).
 
Joe98 said:
I agree. Muslims can live by their values and at the same time show that they don't want to convert anybody.

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Yes, this would help for sure. Not sure if people would believe them though (that they don't seek to convert us or force their ways on us). Not after the Christian example in the west anyway.
 
^^ a little off topic...

Pygoscelis... Thats is some ugly dog on your avatar

With regards to your previous post, we do not force the message of Islam but convey in a peaceful manner.. You can believe whatever you see on different channel of media but we have a purpose to convey the true religion in a peaceful, manner way... NOT force it down your throat of course..

It's upto you at the end of the day of accept it or reject it..

It's so surprising that an atheist believes theres no God but believes in the air theu breathe in, even though they cannot see it...
 
waqas maqsood said:
^^ a little off topic...

Pygoscelis... Thats is some ugly dog on your avatar
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It's my dog, Cody after his bath. I thought the photo was cartoon like with the ears sticking way out. Anyway, he thanks you for the compliment on his appearance and returns the compliment, ugly human.

It's so surprising that an atheist believes theres no God but believes in the air theu breathe in, even though they cannot see it...
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There are many things we can't see but know are there: Oxygen, radio waves, etc. The difference between these and gods is that these are detectable and tangible and theories are built around these which are then scrutinized in great detail.
 
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