What do they think of the Quran.
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SirZubair
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Re: To Non Muslims: Who wrote the Koran?
Take your time sis
There is no rush.
For more beautiful lectures by Traditional Sunni Shaykhs,visit :
http://www.zaytuna.org/multimedia.asp
Wa'salaam
Take your time sis
There is no rush.For more beautiful lectures by Traditional Sunni Shaykhs,visit :
http://www.zaytuna.org/multimedia.asp
Wa'salaam
Re: To Non Muslims: Who wrote the Koran?
What would be the penalty in Islamic law for someone who wrote something like it and proclaimed it as such?
You know there are Western scholars (who do not have to fear Islamic law of course) who are less than impressed by the poetry of the Quran?
It is part of the Muslim tradition that Muhammed could not write, but I have my doubts. Either way there were no eyewitnesses to its writing except, according to the Muslim tradition, when Umar set up a committee to compile the Quran for the first time.
Only if you interpret those scriptures in interesting ways.
What would be the penalty in Islamic law for someone who wrote something like it and proclaimed it as such?
You know there are Western scholars (who do not have to fear Islamic law of course) who are less than impressed by the poetry of the Quran?
It is part of the Muslim tradition that Muhammed could not write, but I have my doubts. Either way there were no eyewitnesses to its writing except, according to the Muslim tradition, when Umar set up a committee to compile the Quran for the first time.
Only if you interpret those scriptures in interesting ways.
Trumble
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Re: To Non Muslims: Who wrote the Koran?
Like most religious works it doesn't matter who wrote the Qur'an.. what is important is who is believed to have written it. Obviously muslims believe it to be the direct Word of God. Equally obviously non-muslims don't; it would be insane to believe it was and NOT be a muslim!
It must be said, though, that I find the assorted "proofs" of authorship less than convincing. I have read it (although only in translation) with an open mind, as have many others and we were not convinced. That said, I wouldn't disagree that there is much evidence (not "proof") that suggests it is unlikely the Qur'an was the work of Mohammed as actual author.
To me its an open question, I think. As I am not insane, or at least I don't think I am, were I ever to become convinced it IS the direct word of God I would become a muslim. But I can't see that happening.
Like most religious works it doesn't matter who wrote the Qur'an.. what is important is who is believed to have written it. Obviously muslims believe it to be the direct Word of God. Equally obviously non-muslims don't; it would be insane to believe it was and NOT be a muslim!
It must be said, though, that I find the assorted "proofs" of authorship less than convincing. I have read it (although only in translation) with an open mind, as have many others and we were not convinced. That said, I wouldn't disagree that there is much evidence (not "proof") that suggests it is unlikely the Qur'an was the work of Mohammed as actual author.
To me its an open question, I think. As I am not insane, or at least I don't think I am, were I ever to become convinced it IS the direct word of God I would become a muslim. But I can't see that happening.
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Greetings,
Threads merged.
You may also be interested to see:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13658-prove-quran-not-word-god.htmlhttp://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13658-prove-quran-not-word-god-12.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13998-prove-quran-word-god.html
Peace.
Threads merged.
You may also be interested to see:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13658-prove-quran-not-word-god.htmlhttp://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13658-prove-quran-not-word-god-12.html
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/13998-prove-quran-word-god.html
Peace.
north_malaysian
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kay:Well, anyways... I picked up Maulana Muhammad Ali's translation (with footnotes), and me and a bunch of other atheists who are reading the Quran for the first time are going to coordinate our reading chapter-by-chapter and discuss it on another board. While I don't expect to be converted by this :happy: at least I will come to know more about this very important work.
north_malaysian
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Skillganon
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WOW! Atheist reading a "translation" of the Quran.
czgibson
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Greetings,
A few thoughts from a convinced atheist:
The view that the Qur'an represents the finest poetry of all time is surely a very subjective one that has been institutionalised into Islamic tradition. There's no way anyone can prove conclusively that any piece of poetry is better than all others. The recorded recitations I've listened to sound fantastic, but at the same time so do recitations of Homer, Virgil, Shakespeare or Milton.
Similarly, regarding the famous challenge to produce a work like it: once everyone has decided to agree that the challenge can never be met, then that seals it - any suggestions won't even be considered seriously.
On the actual content of the book, I've never seen anything in it that has convinced me it's anything other than the work of human hands. I've no idea who the author(s) was/were though. I've read widely in world literature, and I've read many books containing ideas that seem to me to be far more subtle and ingenious than any I've come across in the Qur'an. I haven't read all of it, though, so if anyone has any sections they find particularly profound I'd be interested to see them and be corrected on this.
The Qur'an is filled with simplistic binary oppositions that make it seem (to me) repetitive and hectoring, and whenever I've attempted to read it all the way through I've just found the tedium too much to endure. There are some great passages in it, it's true (I particularly like the Opening), and it's clearly a book of huge importance and influence, but I just can't get through it.
Peace
A few thoughts from a convinced atheist:
The view that the Qur'an represents the finest poetry of all time is surely a very subjective one that has been institutionalised into Islamic tradition. There's no way anyone can prove conclusively that any piece of poetry is better than all others. The recorded recitations I've listened to sound fantastic, but at the same time so do recitations of Homer, Virgil, Shakespeare or Milton.
Similarly, regarding the famous challenge to produce a work like it: once everyone has decided to agree that the challenge can never be met, then that seals it - any suggestions won't even be considered seriously.
On the actual content of the book, I've never seen anything in it that has convinced me it's anything other than the work of human hands. I've no idea who the author(s) was/were though. I've read widely in world literature, and I've read many books containing ideas that seem to me to be far more subtle and ingenious than any I've come across in the Qur'an. I haven't read all of it, though, so if anyone has any sections they find particularly profound I'd be interested to see them and be corrected on this.
The Qur'an is filled with simplistic binary oppositions that make it seem (to me) repetitive and hectoring, and whenever I've attempted to read it all the way through I've just found the tedium too much to endure. There are some great passages in it, it's true (I particularly like the Opening), and it's clearly a book of huge importance and influence, but I just can't get through it.
Peace
wilberhum
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But no human beings ever can have such poetry skills as the author of Koran. God is too perfect in His words.
And
The recent thread on the punishment for Apostasy is an example. It ought to be YES or NO. The post is 1,000 words.
They must not be talking about the same book.
And
The recent thread on the punishment for Apostasy is an example. It ought to be YES or NO. The post is 1,000 words.
They must not be talking about the same book.
So, tell us who wrote the opening:
The Opening
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[1.1] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
[1.2] The Beneficent, the Merciful.
[1.3] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1.4] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
[1.5] Keep us on the right path.
[1.6] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
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The Opening
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
[1.1] All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the Worlds.
[1.2] The Beneficent, the Merciful.
[1.3] Master of the Day of Judgment.
[1.4] Thee do we serve and Thee do we beseech for help.
[1.5] Keep us on the right path.
[1.6] The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favors. Not (the path) of those upon whom Thy wrath is brought down, nor of those who go astray.
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north_malaysian
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The traditional blessing before reading the Torah:
Baruch Atta Adonai, Eloheynu Melech HaOlam
"Blessed are you Lord our God, King of the Universe/World"
Koran 1:1
Baruch l'Elohim, Ribon HaOlamim (translated to Hebrew)
"Blessing to God, Master of the worlds"