What does this mean to you?

  • Thread starter Thread starter EdUaRDo2
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 20
  • Views Views 4K
E

EdUaRDo2

New member
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Hey guys,

It's my understanding that anyone can read the Bible for the FIRST time and clearly read that Jesus is NOT refered to as God in the New Testament, so I pose this question for you.

- John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.

- John 20:27 Next he said to Thomas: “Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop being unbelieving but become believing.” 28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.”

- Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? 8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? 9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) 11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. 12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.


After reading these verses, is Jesus being refered to as God the Almighty? Let's keep in mind that first century jews were strongly monotheists, and they either believed Jesus was claiming to be the God of Abraham or an idol for which he would had been stoned.

Your help will be greatly appreciated.
 
Peace Eduardo,

There are many a verse that reveal Jesus' Divinity. The very reason why Christ was executed was because according to the Jewish ulema he had committed Shirk. It's because of His Resurrection that we know Jesus was innocent of shirk and therefore truly Divine.
 
Rasema said:
From an unreliable document.
Click to expand...

To your surprise the New Testament does contain reliable information, it's why even secular historians turn to the NT when writings books on Jesus. Sure, they may reject a great portion of it, even all His miracles, but the Crucifixion of Christ is not something they reject. Even the first century Roman Historian Tacitus records Christ was executed under the Procurator Pontius Pilate.
 
Sojourn said:
To your surprise the New Testament does contain reliable information, it's why even secular historians turn to the NT when writings books on Jesus. Sure, they may reject a great portion of it, even all His miracles, but the Crucifixion of Christ is not something they reject. Even the first century Roman Historian Tacitus records Christ was executed under the Procurator Pontius Pilate.
Click to expand...

It does" HAVE YOU NOT SEEN THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN A PORTION OF THE SCRIPTURE. THAY HAVE BEEN INVATED TO THE BOOK OF ALLAH TO SETTLE THEIR DISPUTE BUT STILL PLENTY OF THEM TURN AWAY AND THEY ARE AVERSE." Qur'an(my wording)
 
Rasema said:
It does" HAVE YOU NOT SEEN THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN A PORTION OF THE SCRIPTURE. THAY HAVE BEEN INVATED TO THE BOOK OF ALLAH TO SETTLE THEIR DISPUTE BUT STILL PLENTY OF THEM TURN AWAY AND THEY ARE AVERSE." Qur'an(my wording)
Click to expand...

There is no dispute about the Crucifixion.
 
Rasema said:
Crucifixion is from the unreliable document. You can't prove that this piece is from the original Bible. No chain of authority,correct?
Click to expand...

The Gospels are our earliest and most reliable documents on Jesus Christ. They were written several decades after His Resurrection by people who learned from Jesus directly or learned from His Apostles and disciples. All the Gospels record Jesus' Crucifixion. We have authentic early Christian non-canonical writings that also testify to this fact. We have archeological evidence of early Christian cemeteries in Jerusalem bearing etchings of crosses where the dead Jewish Christians were laid. The evidence is simply overwhelming, but you will reject it because the Quran says He was not crucified, and you believe it to be the word of Allah. Shrugs... to you be your way and to me be mine...
 
Salam Sojourn
Even some Christian documents say that he was not crucified. If you read gospel of Barnabas, it says Judas was crucified instead of Jesus.
It can even be proved that Christ was not crucified according to the Bible. Check out this debate between Pastor Henry Pio and Dr. Zakir Naik
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPzZRn0lHXc&feature=related
As for historical proofs of crucifixion, we cannot bank on that since opinion in history vary so much that according to some historians, Jesus did not even exist. Surely we cannot believe that.
Peace
 
EdUaRDo2 said:
Hey guys,

It's my understanding that anyone can read the Bible for the FIRST time and clearly read that Jesus is NOT refered to as God in the New Testament, so I pose this question for you.

- John 1:1 In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.
Click to expand...

It doesn't say the Word was 'a' God it says it was God.

EdUaRDo2 said:
- John 20:27 Next he said to Thomas: “Put your finger here, and see my hands, and take your hand and stick it into my side, and stop being unbelieving but become believing.” 28 In answer Thomas said to him: “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus said to him: “Because you have seen me have you believed? Happy are those who do not see and yet believe.”

- Mark 2:7 Why doth this man thus speak blasphemies? who can forgive sins but God only? 8 And immediately when Jesus perceived in his spirit that they so reasoned within themselves, he said unto them, Why reason ye these things in your hearts? 9 Whether is it easier to say to the sick of the palsy, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and take up thy bed, and walk? 10 But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (he saith to the sick of the palsy,) 11 I say unto thee, Arise, and take up thy bed, and go thy way into thine house. 12 And immediately he arose, took up the bed, and went forth before them all; insomuch that they were all amazed, and glorified God, saying, We never saw it on this fashion.
Click to expand...

The point of this passage was, that it was easier to proclaim to someone that their sins had been forgiven. So Jesus backed up that he could forgive sins by healing him also, something only God can do.



EdUaRDo2 said:
After reading these verses, is Jesus being refered to as God the Almighty? Let's keep in mind that first century jews were strongly monotheists, and they either believed Jesus was claiming to be the God of Abraham or an idol for which he would had been stoned.

Your help will be greatly appreciated.
Click to expand...

Well, there are scriptures--even in the Old Testament--that points to Jesus and who he is, such as Psalms 110: 1

'The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.' Here's Jesus referencing this verse:

'Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is is he? They say unto him, The son of David.

He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying, The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand, til I make thine enemies thy footstool?

If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?

And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.' Matthew 22: 42-46.
 
_ALI_ said:
Salam Sojourn
Even some Christian documents say that he was not crucified. If you read gospel of Barnabas, it says Judas was crucified instead of Jesus.
It can even be proved that Christ was not crucified according to the Bible. Check out this debate between Pastor Henry Pio and Dr. Zakir Naik
www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPzZRn0lHXc&feature=related
Click to expand...

Wa salaam Ali,

The "Gospel of Barnabas" you're referring to is a late 16th century forgery.

As for historical proofs of crucifixion, we cannot bank on that since opinion in history vary so much that according to some historians, Jesus did not even exist. Surely we cannot believe that.
Peace
Click to expand...

I don't know of any historian who seriously proposes Jesus of Nazareth did not exist. There are *authors* who claim this, but they are not historical scholars. I'd say its pretty much a consensus that Christ lived and that he was crucified.
 
naidamar said:
Doctors heal.
Are doctors God?
Click to expand...

Well, of course not. But even in the case of Doctors it is still God that uses the individual to do the healing. Just like today God uses people of faith as instruments to heal people supernaturally.
 
EdUaRDo2 said:
Hey guys,

Re: What does this mean to you?

.
Click to expand...
inspirational addendum to quell Christians to feel better about their delusions-- and as I pointed out in the other thread, not even in concert with all the 'four gospels' but, it is no matter, as I personally don't like to engage folly.. a couple of four mins vids. should shed some light on how others )outside of the zillion sects of Christianity who surprisingly deem each other heretics) view and understand Christianity ..
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnsPyhJj9Mg&feature=related[/MEDIA]

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIT_ZrXFjUM&feature=related[/MEDIA]
FROM MAN TO GOD BY POPULAR VOTE.

good luck with all of that :shade:
​
 
Last edited:
Fedos said:
Well, of course not. But even in the case of Doctors it is still God that uses the individual to do the healing. Just like today God uses people of faith as instruments to heal people supernaturally.
Click to expand...

I see.
So based on your explanation, that means God used Jesus pbuh to do the healing.

Thank You!
 
naidamar said:
I see.
So based on your explanation, that means God used Jesus pbuh to do the healing.

Thank You!
Click to expand...

This is what Jesus said:

'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.' St. John 5: 19.

And here:

'For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself...' St. John 5: 26

And also here:

'And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched (dried up).

And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me.

Luke 8: 43-46

Jesus has life in himself (he's the Son of God), just like the Father has life in himself, therefore he could heal people.
 
Last edited:
Sojourn said:
Peace Eduardo,

There are many a verse that reveal Jesus' Divinity. The very reason why Christ was executed was because according to the Jewish ulema he had committed Shirk. It's because of His Resurrection that we know Jesus was innocent of shirk and therefore truly Divine.
Click to expand...


I don't really think the eduardo knows what shirk is? or ulema.
What are Jewish "ulema" anyway?
 
Yes, thank you, it is very clear now.
So God gave power/miracle to Jesus Alaihi Salam to perform healing, just like God gave power to Moses Alayhi Salam to part the sea, and Sulaiman Alayhi Salam to talk to animals.


Fedos said:
'Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.' St. John 5: 19.


'For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself...' St. John 5: 26


'And a woman having an issue of blood twelve years, which had spent all her living upon physicians, neither could be healed of any,

Came behind him, and touched the border of his garment: and immediately her issue of blood stanched (dried up).

And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

And Jesus said, Somebody hath touched me: for I perceive that virtue is gone out of me

Luke 8: 43-46
Click to expand...
 
Salam Sojourn
Wa salaam Ali,

The "Gospel of Barnabas" you're referring to is a late 16th century forgery.
Click to expand...
The Gospel of Barnabas was accepted as a Canonical Gospel in the Churches of Alexandria till 325 A.D.

Iranaeus (130-200) wrote in support of pure monotheism. He had quoted extensively from the Gospel of Barnabas in support of his views. How can he quote a gospel which did not exist at his time? Ahmed Thomson, a convert to Islam from Christianity, wrote a book "Jesus, Prophet of Islam" with Muhammad Ata Ur-Rahim, which tells us about Iranaeus' references to the gospel of Barnabas.
www.answering-christianity.com/how_gospel_of_barnabas_survived.htm
I don't know of any historian who seriously proposes Jesus of Nazareth did not exist. There are *authors* who claim this, but they are not historical scholars. I'd say its pretty much a consensus that Christ lived and that he was crucified.
Click to expand...
First, I'll just clear it up that Muslims believe that Jesus existed and that he was a prophet of God. But there are scholars of history who think that Jesus did not exist. I'm telling you that to show that opinions of historians regarding Jesus' crucifixion vary from Jesus being crucified to Jesus not even existing so there is no point of crucifixion. Here are a few of them
Constantin-François Volney
Charles François Dupuis
George Albert Wells
Since the opinion vary so much, why should we believe some historians if they say that Jesus was crucified. History is not a definite science and has question marks. Furthermore, Quran explains why many historians think that Jesus was crucified.

004.157 وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِنْهُ مَا لَهُمْ بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلا اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا
004.157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

Al-Qur'an, 004.157 (An-Nisa [Women])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.910
Peace
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top