What has happened to Anwar Al awlaqi

[brotherubaid]

Is this some sort of a joke? I make du3a that Allah swt rids of him and his ilk. There is no Muslim rule in Egypt, Egypt doesn't follow Islamic jurisprudence but a french constitution from the 18th c -- Muslims are put in prison and tortured and he who tortures a Muslim by whips and chains as is the case there has a grievous penalty insha'Allah of course I don't have the time to populate ahadith to prove what should be quite the common sense!
Niqabis are banned from universities and certain areas at to not frighten the tourists, and extreme injustice toward the average citizen and you are asking me to make du3a for him whilst professing your 'hatred' to al'awlaqi? ''i hate him for the sake of Allam'' whilst quoting me ''the heart of a Muslim never shows hatred or rancour'' sob7an Allah akhi why this overt hypocrisy? .. I think you should simply take your own advise and quit writing on this thread!

I am not sure what you are hoping for as far as I am concerned, to be quite frank you inhabit a country that spends millions on bull on common prostitutes like Mariah carey and the hilton girl whilst your neighbors are struggling at the border simply to survive to eat and not be refugees in their own country.. go praise your ruler and pray for him.. the rest of the Muslim world needs awakening however!

Sister your not getting the message , may be coz ims aying too much in one reply, I hate him more than you by the way.

ALL that u said in the above quoted reply, Has all of that and even worst than that not happened in our history? Has the Islamic history nt seen worst than husni mubarak, each and everypoint u made, didnt great scholars n imams get prisoned? didnt muslims get killed by muslim rulers? all that has happened before , in the best generations n with our salaf, why dont we see how they dealt with it. do u really think that they did not suffer as much as egyptians suffer right now? They suffered way more than what egyptians suffer on the hand of husni, but either way im not praising the guy he will be taken into account by Allah, All i was saying is that I do not do his takfeer, and my lasy message was not only about husni mubarak, i clearly asked u if there were anyother muslim leaders that u considered kafir, coz u said u do see takfeer of SOME arab leaders, Musni mubarak was one u mentioned, so my answer was in general, about all the muslim rulers in general and i prvided links and evidence for the stance towards the unjust and tyranny and how our salaf us salih dealt with such unjust or sinful rulers.

It was in no way meant to praise the guy husni , wallahi i will say it again i hate him for the sake of Allah, He has wronged a lot but to do his takfeer n revolt against him n all i just dont see all that, not with him or anyother muslim ruler.

Ssister lets leave it all, my words or thoughts or yours mean absolutely notthing

i will leave u with something from an imam of sunnah

Sheikh Ibn baaz rahimahullah

Does takfeer alone give a license to publically criticize or revolt against the Rulers?

http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=31&Topic=10961

Imam Ahmad a good example of implementing the Sunnah over desires
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=8&Topic=9719

Imaam Ash-Shawkaanee said in his book Raf'-ul-Asaateen fee Hukm-il-Ittisaal bis-Salaateen (pg. 81-82):
It is well established in the Mighty Book (Qur`an) that we are commanded to obey the ruler. Allaah put obeying the rulers after obeying Him and obeying the Messenger (salallaahu 'alaihiwasallam). There are many ahaadeeth in the purified Sunnah, i.e. the main collections, and other books that state that it is obligatory to obey them [the rulers] and to be patient with their oppression. One of the ahaadeeth in which the Prophet (salallaahu 'alaihiwasallam) commanded us to obey them [the rulers] consists of the words: '...even if he beats your back and takes your money.' It is also authentically reported on him (salallaahu 'alaihiwasallam) that he said: 'Give them what they are entitled to (of rights), and ask Allaah for what you are entitled to (of rights).'

AND I AM NOT REFERING TO HUSNI, NOPE MUSLIMS RULERS IN GENERAL, WITH ALL THEIR SINS , N OPPRESSIONS WHAT SHOULD BE OUR STANCE TOWARDS THEM!!

THIS THREAD WAS ABOT AL AWLAKI AND HIS CALL TOWARDS JIHAD AND FIGHTING THE MUSLIM RULERS IN ARABIAN PENNINSULA, AND IN PARTICULAR THE SAUDI ARABIAN RULERS, AND ALL EVIDENCE I HAVE GIVEN IS TO PROVE THAT AWLAKI IS WRONG AND A FILTHY KHARIJ FOR HAVING THAT VIEW AND CALLING TOWARDS IT. ITS NOT ABOUT HUSNI MUBARAK. READ WHAT THE SCHOLARS HAVE SAID AND COMPARE IT WITH WHAT AWLAKI IS CLIAMING , AND SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT IS THE CURRENT POSITION OF AWLAKI.

and you sister have a lot to say a bout a lot of countries including the one i am in

I suggest u get your knowledge about what shouldbe your stance and position towards these rulers and leaders before soeaking ill of them and making their takfeer , see the life sof our salafus saalih and comapre your self with those men of sunnah, those imams of sunnah n peple of sunnah and see how much you are on te sunnah in regards to this matter.

Stop talking about the rulers , its from the way of the innovators, it is proved from a lot of salaf that "If u see a person talking agsinst the ruler then know that he is a person of innovation and if u see a person making duaa for the ruler then know that he is a person fo the sunnah"

and the lifes of great imams of sunnah and tabieen and the best generations prove exactly how they dealt with Unjust and sinful and oppressing rulers.

And what was their stance and behavior towards them, if they made duaa for the rulers we would do teh same, coz some of our present rulers DO NOT COMPARE IN ANY WAY TO THE BRUTALITY OF THE RULERS OF THE PAST! and yet the people of sunnah acted the way they acted, your mad coz i said we make dua for the rulers, well guess what thats what the IMAMS of sunnah did when they themselfes were wronged and tortured, me n u are not even tortured or wronged, yes our muslim brothers n sisters do get wronged by some rulers, yes they are unjust and sinful, but all we can do is make dua for them, and no in no way am i approving the tyranny of the rulers, it is wrong and Allah will take them to account for it, But we s muslim have to know what is our stance and our position n behavior and what are our limits.

Allahul Mustaan

Assalam OA likum

 

[brotherubaid]

Regarding the Origins and Nature of The Tyranny and Oppression of the Rulers

We see these days, and for many long years, very emotive and powerful statements regarding the rulers coming from a people largely poisoned with the Leninist-Marxist poison of Sayyid Qutb. Pointing all their fingers in one direction and attributing every evil and calamity to just one category - which is that of the rulers - yet all but characterized by a collective ignorance of the basic and fundamental laws of Allaah operative in His creation, which is that the rulers are just a reflection of what is in the society itself. This is the end result of being led by pseudo-intellectual self-styled scholars who champion the Marxist-Leninist discourse brought by Sayyid Qutb, covered in an Islamic garb.
It is great news that droves and droves of misguided youth, in the Arab lands and elsewhere, are seeing through the corruption in the contemporary takfiri and jihadi school of thought which is based upon other than the methodologies of Islam, Sunnah and the way of the Salaf. This is being brought about by reformative and educational programs that allow these misguided people to resolve their doubts academically along with the proliferation and wider availability of quotations from notable Islamic scholars of all ages and times in contradiction to these deviant orientations.

In this article we present a number of monumental statements from true Islamic scholars which help to destroy and lay to utter ruins, the false Leninist Qutbist methodology of focusing methodologies of reform around the revolt against sinful, tyrannical rulers. These discourses are central to recruitment of unsuspecting Muslims into takfiri, jihadi and extremist circles and thus it is essential that they are countered with sound principles elucidated by the true orthodox and moderate scholars of Islam.

Ibn al-Qayyim, the great Muslim scholar, said in his book, Miftaah Daar is-Sa'aadah (Daar Ibn 'Affaan, 2/177):


And reflect in His, the Most High's wisdom in making the kings of the servants, their leaders and their rulers to be of the same type as their actions (i.e. the actions of the servant's). Rather, it is as if their actions (those of the servants) became manifest in the appearances of their rulers and kings. If they remain upright, then their kings will remain upright, and if they turn away (from uprightness), then they (the kings) too will turn away from uprightness. And if they (the servants) oppress [themselves and others], then their kings and rulers will oppress [them], and if their appears plotting and deception from them, their rulers will [be made to] behave likewise (towards their subjects), and if they (the servants) prevent the rights of Allaah due amongst themselves, and become stingy with respect to them (i.e. withhold the rights of each other), then their kings and their rulers will withhold the right that they (the servants) have over them, and will become stingy with respect to them. And if they (the servants) take from the one who is considered weak what they do not deserve to take from him in their dealings (i.e. misappropriate from him), then the kings will take from them (the servants) what they do not deserve to take (from them) and will inflict them with taxes and [other forms of] service. And everything that they (the servants) take away from the weak person, the kings will take away from them with power, force.
So their actions (those of the servants) become manifest in their actions (those of the kings and rulers). And it is not from the Divine wisdom that the evil-doers and the sinners are made to be ruled over [by anyone] except by one who is of their like.

And when the very first band (of Islaam) was the best of the generations, and the most pious of them, then their rulers were likewise. And when they became tarnished (i.e. corrupted), the rulers were made corrupted over them.

Thus, the wisdom of Allaah refuses that the likes of Mu'aawiyah, and 'Umar bin 'Abdil-'Azeez are put in authority over us in the likes of these times [the 8th Century Hijrah], let alone the likes of Abu Bakr and 'Umar.

Rather, our rulers are in accordance with our (nature) and the rulers of those before us were in accordance with their (nature). And both of the two matters necessitate wisdom and what it requires.

And the one who has deep rooted intelligence, when he moves his thought around in this subject will see the Divine wisdom that runs through al-Qadaa wal-Qadar (Ordainment and Pre-Decree), externally and internally, just as it runs through al-Khalq wal-Amr (the Creation and the Command). So beware from thinking with your corrupt thought that anything of His ordainments and decrees are devoid of the far-reaching wisdom. Rather, all of His, the Most High's ordainments and decrees take place from the most perfect angles of correctness and wisdom. However, the weak intellects are veiled, by way of their weakness, from perceiving these [aspects of wisdom], just like eyes suffering day-blindness are veiled, by way of their weakness from the light of the sun &"

Stated Ibn Abil-Izz al-Hanafi in his explanation of Aqeedat ut-Tahaawiyyah:


And as for adhereing to obedience to them (the Rulers), even if they commit oppression, then this is because the evils and harms that arise on account of rebelling against them, is numerous times more than that which occurs as a result of the oppression of the rulers themselves. Rather, in having patience over their oppression there is expiation of sins, and a multiplication of the reward. For Allaah did not empower them over us, except due to the corruption in our actions, and the recompense for an action is its like (al-jazaa'u min jins il-'amal).
Hence, it is upon us to strive (ijtihaad) in seeking forgiveness, making repentance and rectification of our actions. Allaah the Most High said, And whatever affliction befalls you, then it is from what your hands have earned, yet He pardons many and He the Most High said, ... And whatever evil befalls you, then it is from your own soul , and He the Most High said, And thus do we turn some of the oppressors against others on account of what they used to earn Hence, if the subjects (of a state) wish to save themselves from the oppression of the tyrannical ruler, then let them abandon oppression themselves.

Ibn Sa'd relates in his Tabaqaat al-Kubraa (7/163-165):


A group of Muslims came to al-Hasan al-Basree seeking a verdict to rebel against al-Hajjaaj [a tyrannical and despotic ruler]. So they said, "O Abu Sa'eed! What do you say about fighting this oppressor who has unlawfully spilt blood and unlawfully taken wealth and did this and that?" So al-Hasan said, "I hold that he should not be fought. If this is a punishment from Allaah, then you will not be able to remove it with your swords. If this is a trial from Allaah, then be patient until Allaah's judgement comes, and He is the best of judges." So they left al-Hasan, disagreed with him and rebelled against al-Hajjaaj - so al-Hajjaaj killed them all. Al-Hasan used to say, "If the people had patience when they are being tested by their unjust ruler, it will not be long before Allaah will give them a way out. However, they always rush for their swords, so they are left with their swords. By Allaah! Not even for a single day did they bring about any good.
Al-Hasan al-Basree (d.110) said as occurs in "Minhaj us-Sunnah" of Shaikh ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah(4/528):


Verily, al-Hajjaaj is the punishment of Allaah. So do not repel the punishment of Allaah with your own hands. But you must submit and show humility, for Allaah the Most High stated, And indeed We seized them with punishment, but they humbled not themselves to their Lord, nor did they invoke (Allâh) with submission to Him. (Al-Mu'minun 23:76).

And al-Hasan al-Basree also said, as occurs in "Adaab Hasan al-Basri" of Ibn al-Jawzee, pp.119-120:


Know - may Allaah pardon you - that the tyranny of the kings is a retribution (niqmah) from among the retributions of Allaah the Most High. And Allaah's retributions are not to be faced with the sword, but they are to be faced with taqwaa and are repelled with supplication and repentance, remorse (inaabah) and abstention from sins. Verily, when the punishments of Allaah are met with the sword, are more severe. And Maalik bin Deenaar narrated to me that al-Hajjaaj (Ibn Yoosuf) used to say, "Know that every time you commit a sin Allaah will bring about a punishment from the direction of your ruler (sultaan)". And I have I have also been told that a person said to al-Hajjaaj, "Do you do such and such with the Ummah of Muhammad (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam)?" So he replied, "For the reason that I am the punishment of Allaah upon the people of Iraaq, when they innovated into their religion whatever they innovated, and when they abandoned the commands of the their Prophet - alaihis salaam - whatever they abandoned".

 

[Insecured soul]

i said in my very first post that YES the guy DID have some good lectures n all

not some but almost every lecture of his is good.

but that does not make him a scholar,

yeah, so u are a scholar here, right?

i wonder u lead a comfortable life behind computers and writing big articles, not like this pious awlaki who ask all muslim to help each other and get into some trouble.

imaam awlaki served this ummah a great deal, i pray allah keep him safe especially from our muslim brothers who raise fingers towards him

 

[brotherubaid]

the same fatalist madkhali propaganda. I really hate these salafitalk people ... for they have made a mockery out of Islam and spirituality. They continue to inhabit a kaafir country such as UK (ooh we were born here, its our country) yet pass ridiculous comments about others who decided to migrate out of your kaafir country.

I have never read soo many lies in one post before, may Allah forgive u and guide u.

lets count Fatalist , Wheer how?

Madhali = WHO? WHAT? there is no such thing as a madkhali or jaami, bring me one quote from one scholar clamiimgg there is a sect named madkhalis, rather, u should actualy read what EACH AND EVERY GREAT scholar has said about sheikh rabee, So to hate sheikh rabee bin hadi al madkhali is not justified in any way, nor can u hate those who claim to be with him, coz all the scholars have given praise for him, past and present and untill this day they do, this is not a cult or sect or anything at all, its pure way of salaf and salafi manhaj, If u want u can go back and see the pic i posted and see why the hate for sheikh rabee, if u have a heart in ur chect u will realise why is he hated and what is his crime.

U hate salafitalk people = well define salafi talk people? and let me know what is your probelm with them , there is gotta be something right? u cant just hate someone for no reason. so do let me know what is it that has got u sooo mad at them.

Mockery put of islam and spirituality??= Again a great lie, May Allah guide u , please give examples of this Mockery of ISLAMM! astaghfirullah


Inhibiting a kafir country= Well so ur saying salafi talk and everyone on it is living in kafir countries and they consider it their country? Astaghfirullah what a great lie, I am on salafi talk and i was born n raised in dubai. If some members are indeed living in the kaafir lands, or if some of the adminstartors are living in the kafir lands, well can u show me a website or forum which does not have ANY MEMEBR or Moderator from a kafir land or living in a kafir land?

Hey what about this islamic board? how many members are from kafir land and how many mods u be the judge, so this is not a refutation and dont knwo what u really mean by bringing this point up.

Ohh we were born here this is our country= lol again a great lie and slander, dont u have any fear of Allah? who said that, when and who approves that, we dont.

Salafis try harder than anyone out there to move out o fthe kafir lands and move to the muslim lands and wen they get teh chance they take the first flight akhi. again dont even know what ur point is here and how is this a refutation inany way.


We hate those who migrate? = A great number of members of salafi talk and salafis in the Uk have indeed migrated to saudi n other muslim countries, show me when and where have we REFUTED THEM and "passed ridiculous commenst" about the JUST FOR THE SAKE OF THEM MIGRATING TO A MUSLIM LAND, this can never be proved.


I will show u what u are trying to do , u did not read any thing that was posted here , nor did u read any of the links , u saw salafitalk and u jumped on the hate wagon, making ridicolus claims and made up great lies.

Lol do u think al awlaki was refuted coz he migrated? do u really think that? that would be a good way to make your self sleep at night if u are an awlaki fanatic, but if u want teh truth , His way and ideology has come out clearly and the scholars have spoken on the issue and its not hard to see just how misguided and deviatd awlaki is, its clear to any person of sunnah,

If u were truthful , u would have read the refutations and wrote a knowledge based reply, if u found any false claims in these refutations u would have countered them and refuted them with knwoledge and clarity, but lol u came here and made up a great lie that well.... when people migrate to muslim lands the salafi talk people n madkhalis refute them , lol go to sheikh rabee bin hadi al madkhalis house in makkah and see how many westerners are there to study, u lier!
so doe sheikh rabee n madkhalis make ridicolus comments about the students that are in saudia and why they moved there and left the kaffir country?

Lets get This straight and please DO answer this

You said that " They continue to inhabit a kaafir country such as UK (ooh we were born here, its our country) yet pass ridiculous comments about others who decided to migrate out of your kaafir country"

Now with all honesty please answer me this, Who are great in number in UK or in the west? "the so called madkhalis" or the "others"? How any masajid that are considered madkhali and how many are non-madkhali? which are more in number? and if u count individuals , would madkhalis in UK be more or Other than madkhalis? lol so u have actualy refuted your own self here, coz for every "madkhali" in UK THERE are about 1000 non-mdkhalis. Well why aint u mad at them then? why arent u opeining your moth about them and slandering them and refuting them, they are obviously more , which also proves that madkhalis migrate and the ones that actually dint migrate n sit there in a kafir country are actually the ones u support, lol this is actually funny may Allah guide u. why dont u have probelms with non-madkhalis in moving out of UK? they are proabably millions compared to a few hundred or thousand so called "madkhalis" .


U have no evidence or knowledge or intellect, u just came here and spoke your desires and may Allah guide u

Some horrendous lies and claims u have mae my friend , may Allah guide u.

And lets take this to PMs, i dont want to open up yet another topic in this thread after the whole husni mubarak fiasco.

As a brother i suggest u stop listening to those who have made up lies and great slanders of salafi publications n salafitalk n "madkhalis" and get ur facts, coz u will be taken to account for all the hate and slanders u are spreading.

Well let me give it to u in words of two great scholars

Sheikh Saalih al luhaidan was asked about people like u and he said" Its as if Allah wanted to raise the ranks of sheikh rabee, so he got people like them to speak ill of him and slander and curse him, so Allah can raise his ranks due to them, and they do not hurt or harm sheikh rabee in any way , rather they only raise his ranks with Allah"

And al Albani was asked about people like u and those whom u are listening to

"He said " Such peope are of two types"
Ignorant and followers of desires

as for ignorants than they are taught, and we ask Allah ti guide them

as for the ones that follwo their desires "WE ASK ALLAH TO BREAK THEIR BACKS"

so u choose which one are u , if ur just ignorant or lets say uninformed/misinformed , then go get ur facts

if ur following ur desires that the dua of al albani stands against u

salam


Every single one of you who came to this therad and used the word Madkhali , or madkhalist should know that they are the ones with propogands , coz forst of all none of the scholars acknowledge such a sect being present, second it is Exactly the same situation as with the sufis that fall in shirk, and how they cal the people of sunnah wahabi , This is exactly teh same situation, Just like they drive people away from people of sunnah and spread lies against them and have only one slogan to shout "wahabi, wahabi!" u do the same thing and claim "Madkhali , madkhali! While the right thing for Muslim be to actually read, teh sufis should read what the "wahabis" have to say and repernt from the shirk that they fall into and the Takfeeris and hizbis should read what the "madkhalis" have to say and see if its based on knowledge or evidence and if its right follow it and repent from your mistakes. We see the same old tactics of sufis, Just how they drive people away from the haqq, from teh scholars of sunnah , from the famous books that refute them and expose their aqeedah or calls them towards tawheed and towards correction, they just have one thing to ay , ohh this is wahabi propoganda! dont listen or read it , its all wahabi literature. Exactly in the same way the takfeeris n hizbis drive people away from the sunnah by claiming "madkhal websites , madkhali scholars, madhali cult etc etc.

 

[brotherubaid]

not some but almost every lecture of his is good.


yeah, so u are a scholar here, right?

i wonder u lead a comfortable life behind computers and writing big articles, not like this pious awlaki who ask all muslim to help each other and get into some trouble.

imaam awlaki served this ummah a great deal, i pray allah keep him safe especially from our muslim brothers who raise fingers towards him

even if he says its alright t kill civilans? even if he approves of bombing of paseneger planes, even if he claims that there needs t obe jihaad in saudi arabia? How and in what way is that Islamic? how is it allowed to shed the blood of the muslims and fight muslim leaders brother?

i said it clearly that the guy was good, but he has changed , and subhanAllah when and where did i say i was a scholar????

just answer the simple questions that i asked u ?

do u approve of that? do u know the islamic rulings on people who make such claims and call towards what he is calling to?

U did not even care to read what was said regarind awlaki, what is the problem with him and what is his mistake and u come in here to blindly support him with no knowledge and evidence, all u ahve is that he has great lectures. well guess what? people change, those who killed Ali and Uthmman radi allahu anhum chganed, they were not born misguided , they changed!! and al awlaki has changed and he is no longer a trusted person, rather a danger to Islamma nd musims and innocent human beings.


so why dont u first read and then judge

http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=9&Topic=10039
SCHOLARS WARN AGAINST ANWAR AL AWLAKI

 

[Cabdullahi]

I read a few articles....at salafitalk and some users* attacked....Ahmad deedat.......zakir naik.......Abdurahman green....yusuf estes...........Bilal philips.....the latter because he spoke about tawheed al hukumia in his book regarding tawheed

and thats when i had enough of salafitalk....so i had a chat with my sister and she told me about the madkhalis and their close ties with the rulers and it all made sense...everything clicked in place

 

[brotherubaid]

Akhi all the people u mentioned and the attacks on those people, Just tell me one thing , were they just attacks or were tey based on knoweldge n proofs and on truth or were they lies? was there a reason to "attack" them , did they give reason ? now were those reasons not enough for you? arent these people related to ou deen? arent we supposed to protect our deen from those who make mistaes?

As far as bilal philiphs, there are many things abouut him , and u mentioned tawheed al hakimiyyyah, well for the sake of Allah i ask u akhi, would u cosider sheikh salih al fawzaan and ibn baaz n ibn uthaimeen n al albani to be salafi scholars or are they also "Madkhali" scholars to you?
If they are salafi scholars in your book then go and read what they ALL have said about tawheed ul haakimiyah and see where bilal philiphs stands from them, if bilal philips is going aginst fawzan n bin baaz n all the great scholars what would your stance be? would u take the scholars or bilal philips?

Any way akhi as far as what your sister said, i suggest u go and get the facts coz these are matters related to our deen, and that was a great lie that "madkhalis" have close ties with rulers, this walahi is a great lie to keep people away from certain scholars, u know why they do that and make up such lies, coz "madkhalis" exposed some of their errors and instead of correcting themselfes and repenting they chose to retaliate, If u want everything to make sense n click in place may be u should read first and do a little bit of research and see what everypne actually has agaisnt sheikh rabee bin hadi al madhali and some of his students, even though i persoannly see some great harshness and mistakes from some f his students and those who claim to be with him , but in general to spread such lies like te ones your sister told u its not right ahki.

Its not about the rulers , and even if i is about the rulers , the "madkhalis" are upon the sunnah in that regard, if u dont wanna follow the sunnah in regards to the rulers than may Allah help you, our deen is complete and we know exactly HOW to deal with teh rulers and what our stance should be towards the leaders, Just coz we dont speak against the rulers and curse them and call them bad things people are quick to say ohhhh they are paid by the government and they are with the rulers but People dont know that speaking il of the rulers and cursing them and inciting hate agianst them is not from teh sunnah and is prohobited and tis is not what our salaf did with rulers worst than what we have now.

Now a days we have a strange phenomenon , Every one who does not speak against the ruler is Wrong , scared , Paid , Madkhlai , Agent , puppet , and every one who speaks against the rulers and in doing so goes against the sunnah , then he is all of a sudden a hero, brave , right , on haqq and is followed , So now the Standard between Haqq and batil right and wrong , sunnah and bidah is " Talkin about the rulers and critisizing them"?!

Is this the standard and criterion now ?

and when u will read teh sunnah and the way of the prophet and salaf us saalih m, the best generations u will find that lol actually it was not even alowed to speak agsint the ruler or to critisize him in pblic and speak ill of him coz its first of all not allowed in our deen and second it brings about much fithnah and destrutcion and bloodshed to the land.

so who was right and who was wrong? you were wrong all along while u thought u were upon the haqq, the reason lack of knowledge of the deen and the sunnah and the affairs of the rulers

any way

Oh Allah bear witness that I had provided in this thread enough links and materials and websites for anyone to check and know the truth , the Rest is in your Hands Lord, you guide whom U will , and i seek your forgiveness indeed u are the most forgiving.

http://www.themadkhalis.com/md/arti...di-the-rafidah-and-the-iranian-revolution.cfm

 

[$tranger]

He is not even close to an scholar nor does he have anyachievements

Assalaamu alykum,

please refer to:
http://mirror.robert-marquardt.com/cryptome/anwar-alawlaki/08-0812.htm

regarding Anwar al-Awlaki's 'achievements'-which you say he has none :-/

 

[Zafran]

Salaam

I think this has a gone far enough - the Mods should this thread down.

peace

 

[Dagless]

Does anyone have a link to him actually saying these things? In the news reports on youtube they say he said it but when they show the clip it's not actually what he's saying. It is just some stuff about how America assassinated someone and then said the Islamic extremists did it.

edit: I found another clip where he talks about jihad, but nothing about killing innocents. You'd think that would be the audio clip they play most!

 

[جوري]

Does anyone have a link to him actually saying these things? In the news reports on youtube they say he said it but when they show the clip it's not actually what he's saying. It is just some stuff about how America assassinated someone and then said the Islamic extremists did it.

edit: I found another clip where he talks about jihad, but nothing about killing innocents. You'd think that would be the audio clip they play most!

this is precisely why I have stated I haven't personally seen him advocating the killing of innocents, neither have I any proof that he has any link to that so-called fort crap bomber (which is another concocted reason in my humble opinion) to have him assassinated. America doesn't like folks who talk about uniting the Muslim world and we can see them benefiting greatly from dividing it up to pieces and havin a bite here and a bite there, casualties here and casualties there.. and how admirable those Muslims who love the rule by their despot kings and even offer them prayers!

I have stopped reading after a while.. all the crap can really get to you if you don't isolate yourself from it!

 

[brotherubaid]

folks who talk about uniting the Muslim

-----------------------------------------------

and how admirable those Muslims who love the rule by their despot kings and even offer them prayers!

I have stopped reading after a while.. all the crap can really get to you if you don't isolate yourself from it!

U are completely Ignorant of the sunnah and the more u post the more u prove it

Dont u know what is the stance of our deen and shareeah towards the rulers, The unjust, the sinful and corrupt ones?

Have there not been WORST rulers than we have now and have not our salaf shown us how to deal with them?

Peole like u are the ones dividing this ummah and bringing fithnah coz of ur ignorance of the basic fundamentals of the sunnah and our religion
and u go on talk about splitting the ummah!

What has awlaki done to bring the ummah together? lol is this a joke! How is raging war against saudi arabia and its rlers gonna bring the ummah together? how is critisizng the rulers and slandering them in public gonna bring the ummah together?

Its is against the sunnah and our deen to critisize the rulers , Ourdeen is complete and all the success lies in flowing it and Following the sunnah


فَلْيَحْذَرِ الَّذِينَ يُخَالِفُونَ عَنْ أَمْرِهِ أَن تُصِيبَهُمْ فِتْنَةٌ أَوْ يُصِيبَهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ﴿٦٣﴾
And let those who oppose the Messenger's (Muhammad SAW) commandment (i.e. his Sunnah legal ways, orders, acts of worship, statements, etc.) (among the sects) beware, lest some Fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, earthquakes, killing, overpowered by a tyrant, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them


Dont u know what is the sunnah in regards to the rulers? dont u know how much fithnah and blood shed and destruction can come about because of crtisizing the ruler and MORE than that if some one clearly not powerful enough or ready enough to rage war against the rulers??

U know what is the out come? destrutcion , killing of mulsims , blood shed , U knwo what happens when they cant really fight the rulers, Yes They go n bomb mosques , they go and bomb policestations, they go and bomb army checkposts Killing Thousands of muslims just to put pressure on government coz they cant fight man to man with the governmet and u Call that ISLAM !! astagfirullah

Go read the lifes of our pious salaf, the 4 imams , ibn taymiyah and all the great scholars and then look at yourself! Look at your claims and your open sttacks on the rulers and Look at the HARAM claims and devilish claims of awlaki aout raging war ins audi arabia and how the kings and ruling family are hyprocrites! Wjat good is that gonna bring? and OHH it also shows how igorant o fthe sunnah al awlaki is, but tell me wouldnt he be cosidered a kharij for his claims of fighting the saudi rulers and JIHAAD in the arabian penninsula?? If that is not khurroj then there is no khurooj , if that is not call for murder or innocent people and law enforcment agencies of muslim countries and rulers than there is no khorooouj.

Yes it hurts every muslim to see the stae of the Ummah, to see palestine, to see iraq , to se afghan , but its impatient emptional and ignorant people like awlaki and yourself that cant take it and end up doing much harm than good, end up doing that which is forbidden and hated by Allah, That which is prohibited.

Go get some nowledge of the deen and the sunnah in regards to rulers , in regards to jihaad,

And as for your attack about me praying for the leaders , Huh! that is the sunnah , so u can hate me as much as u want for adhereing to the sunnah and it does not hurt me , I proved to you that with unjust and sinful rulers our sharreah orders us to make dua for them, and it prohibits us from speaking agisnt them and fighting them , and u took the opportunity to make fun of that and make fun of my claim? than know that making fun of sunnah IS KUFR! and may Allah save u.

Making dua for the kings n unjust rulers has been the way of people of sunnah of our salaf,

And lol , u took a dig at my rulers of UAE, yes usee the billions they spend on sinful things, BUt U DONT SEE THE BILLIONS THEY SPEND IN good, The sins are not kufr, yes Allah can take them to account , but u were ignorant of the fact that we as muslims are NOT ALLOWED to critisize them in public.

Let me tell u the good that is with our leaders, Only if u could see the services and houses and support Sheikh muhamad bin rashid al maktoum gives to widows and orphans and divorced women n if u can see the CITIES that he has built for them u would be ashamed! only if u could see the thousands of Quran MEMORISING centers thorugh out dubai in every mosque, where chldren of all ages n nationalites are urged tomemorise the quran and even Rewarded generously U would be ashamed! Only if u could see their Financial suport to Muslim thorough out the world , in disacters n in problems u would be ashmed, Yes the yhave sins, Bu they have good too, yes me n yo have sins and good too, But know

إِنَّ الْحَسَنَاتِ يُذْهِبْنَ السَّـيِّئَاتِ
Verily, the good deeds remove the evil deeds (i.e. small sins)

I can count the mistakes n sins of my rulers BUT I CAN NEVER COUNT THEIR GOOD! U sister can live a million years and u will still NOT COME CLOSE TO THE GOOD DEEDS OF our rulers or the saudi royal family , WHY dont u count their good deeds , sins are sins they are not kufr! sins are removed by the good that they have , BUt lol people like u fall short in the rights of the rulers and u think ur doing sometng GREAT!

Tel me just one thing , very simple actually? Dou think u will ever spend a millon in the way of Allah in your life? do u ? well the rulers of uae spend Multi millions just in ramadan! How will u ever come close to their good deeds.

The good they do is on a big scale, and their reward is with ALLAH, and hey! on top of all that They will be rewarded for your attacks on them and Allah will raise their ranks by it so THANK U!

Now one more simple thing for u to understand , that in our deen and following the sunnah there are soo many benefits, and when the sunnah forbids us of something there are Many enefits and wisdoms behind it, so is the case with obeying the rulers and giving them their rights, a quick example

The recent floods in paksiatn , some on the areas where taliban are very active, they have the love, sympathy and support of the people , well when the floods hit, WHO RESCUED THEM? these were the same people fighting the government even days before the flods but when the floods hit they had no one to help them but THE SAME ARAMY THAT THEY WERE KILLING! so isnt the sulttan , and the one with authroty and the ruler appointd for the greater benefit and for great hukmah from Allah! If he is sinful and unjust u should read what i posted from the scholars like ibn al qayyim, ts only coz of the condition of the popel of that land and their own sins.

Now one last thing, Dont we have examples in the life of the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa sallam and his companions and tabieen n the bes t three generations and the salafus saalih? every body is talking about jihaad and fighting and all, well dont u have examples in their lifes related to jihaad, Did they always fight? under all circumstances, or did they have patience in some , sulh and truce in some ?? Its not always time to fight, specillay when ur not in authority like awlaki and when ur weak and u wil only bring about fithnah and blood shed and get muslims killed!

Assalaamu alykum,



please refer to:
http://mirror.robert-marquardt.com/cryptome/anwar-alawlaki/08-0812.htm

regarding Anwar al-Awlaki's 'achievements'-which you say he has none :-/

Im not going to read that, but would like u to answer me clearly on these simple questions

1- Is jihaad and calling towards jihaad in the arabian pennisula something that is allowed in our shareeah or can it bring about any good ? First of all its haram, and those who fight the rulers EVEN THE UNJUST ones are khawarij and the Prophet sala lahu alihi wa allam called them DOGS OF HELFIRE
They will only bring about blood shed, destructions and murder and much fithnah and fassad! So can we add that to his achievemnets , calling towards COLD MURDER!

2- How can killing any ciilian, american or any westener or kafir be justified in our beautiful religion and sharreah! now what would u say to some one who calls towards it and hails it and incites it? so can we add that to his achevemnets too?

3- Critisizing and speaking ill of the rulers and inciting public to fight them , HOw is that from our deen? dont we have Quran n sunnah and lifes of the pious preceedors? do we see it with them , dont we have examples , now what would u call some one who falls in such hedious crimes? can we add this to his list of achievements?


PEOPLE CHANGE , YES HE HAS SOME GOOD LECTURES , BUT HE CHANGED TO THE WORST AND MAY ALLAH SAVE US FROM HIM , MAY ALLAH GUIDE HIM TO THE SUNNAH AND SAVE EVERYONE FROM HIS EVIL.

PEOPLE CHANGE

THOSE WHO KILLED ALI AND UTHMMAN RADI ALAHU ANHUM WERE NOT BORN KHAWARIJ!! SHOULD SOME OF THEM HAD NOT BEEN MISGUIDED AND CHANGED THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN GREAT IMAMS FROM THE TABIEEN AND WE WOULD BE QUOTING THEM AS GREAT IMAMS OF SUNNAH AND HADEETH AND OUR DEEN IN GENERAL, BUT THEY CHANGED AND DEVIATED! SO NOW WE HATE THEM AND CALL THEM DOGS OF HELL FIRE!

GET UR KNOWLEDGE AND GET YOUR FACTS.

Here are some of his achievemenets
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=9&Topic=10039

a man is judged on his most recent condition and state!

and that link is actually old , he has since went on to record more deviations and misuidance and dallalaat in his resume like his recent videos where he said it is permissible to make planes targets like the underware bomber. He is clearly inciting MURDER which is prohibited in islam to the youth who are his fanatics like many on this forum and youtube,

Its important and its the best form of jihhad to warnagainst him , to save the youth from his misguidance and talbees , from his devilish ideology and his filth!

American-Yemeni cleric advocates killing of US civilians
http://gulfnews.com/news/world/usa/american-yemeni-cleric-advocates-killing-of-us-civilians-1.630909

Al Qaida in Yemen publishes shocking magazine article
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/yemen/al-qaida-in-yemen-publishes-shocking-magazine-article-1.695352

Al Qaida launches English language propaganda magazine
http://gulfnews.com/news/world/usa/al-qaida-launches-english-language-propaganda-magazine-1.648776

Awlaki, al qaida and their likes are OUT TO KILL, no Muslim approves it no matter how they justify it
read for youself , these devils will bring much harm ti islam and muslims and to their selfes first of all, they are not fighting in the way of Allah rather in the way of shytaan, this is not the jihaad of islam, they claim it but its a mere claim and its far fromw hat they claim , its murder and crime in every way and in our shareeah!

 

[Cabdullahi]

the Saudi establishment hate awlaqi so much....is it because they fear they might be toppled by an uprising people or is it because he is causing destruction and if so why dont the saudi establishment speak out against the destruction Israel causes which is much worse and needs much more attention why are they silent?

awlaqi is currently just a desert man

 

[brotherubaid]

the Saudi establishment hate awlaqi so much....is it because they fear they might be toppled by an uprising people or is it because he is causing destruction and if so why dont the saudi establishment speak out against the destruction Israel causes which is much worse and needs much more attention why are they silent?

awlaqi is currently just a desert man

And uprising is from ISLAMM!!!

Uprising against a muslim king like abdullah from islamm??

what are the consequences of uprising any way, apart from it being haram, which should be enough for any muslim to stay away from it, wouldnt it claim lifes of muslims? wouldnt it claim destruction of muslim property , wouldnt muslim blood be spilled

For Allah's sake think one second about your own sentecne and stamemet

They fear an uprising? do u think if there was an uprising who will win, in this age and time and with the power and athority and equipment of government who will win? u think any one can defeat the army? and Keep in mind its haram to revolt against the muslim ruler! now lets suppose some one did , who will die in the process, awlaki and company wont be able to fight the army man to man, what will they do? same old that goe son in pakistan for instance, Blow up a mosque , blow up a police stataion Lol in my city they blew up the post office? u know why? coz it was a government departemnt, They will blow up malls and markets just to push the gvernmnent and take revenge , and who will die in the midst of all this?? answer me ?!!

Revolting and uprising is not from islam its from the comunist lenenist and marzist movements read www.takfiris.com www.islamagainstextremism.com

Tell me how is it islamic? get ur knowledge and get ur facts!

lol they fear an uprising, and who will suffer the consequeces? and is it even right or islamic? u want an uprising in saudi arabia, u are worst than shaytaan if u want that and so is awlaki coz he wants it in the land of haramin

shame shme shame on him and anyone who suports him

 

[جوري]

U are completely Ignorant of the sunnah and the more u post the more u prove it

Islam goes with fitrah and everything you post has gone against fitrah! I have nothing to prove nor have I a desire to impress my points upon people even by your shove throat approach I don't need to write bulky foul smelling posts with the stench of disdain for the well fare of the ummah and other unrelated drivel to make a non-point.

at this stage I say لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

please go praise and pray for your sultan and his allies!

all the best!

 

[shuraimfan4lyf]

may Allah protect Sheikh Anwar from all evil, and forgive him and grant him patience. I can not believe that there are people labelling him as a khawarij and making takfir on him. He is far better than us, and knowledgeable than who are tagging him with words of kafir. All I have to say is, 7asbi Allahu wa ni3mal wakeel.

 

[CosmicPathos]

lol .... at obaid telling us that "how much fitna can come from criticizing the rulers." LOL, like there is no fitna right now in the mighty presence of KING ABDULLAH AL-SAUD THE GOD's APPOINTED CZAR .... i despise the fatalist Al-Saud family-licking bearded satanic scholars 4 dollars who teach us what the salaf did. If Prophet were to follow your footsteps, he'd never migrate to medina and there'd be no Islam.

 

[جوري]

All I have to say is, 7asbi Allahu wa ni3mal wakeel.

indeed 7asbona Allah wa'ni3ma alwakeel.. they pass the label of khwarij upon Muslims yet don't accept the label of kuffr against those who don't practice Islam.. curious world isn't it?

let's pose this question to our dear 'knowledgeable' member-- was there ever a time in Islamic history when Muslims allied themselves with kaffirs against other Muslims? and if so what became of them? were the Muslims complacent not to overthrow them accepting their terror and injustice simply because they bore the label of 'Islam' or were they fought like any other kaffir was fought to bring God's law and justice into the lands?

 

[جوري]

go ahead ubaid look this hadith up it is authentic and translate if for everyone like the knowledgeable brother that we all know you are:

فحديث: إذا بويع لخليفتين فاقتلوا الآخر منهما. ومثله حديث: إنه ستكون هنات، فمن أراد أن يفرق أمر هذه الأمة وهي جميع فاضربوه بالسيف كائناً من كان. ومثله حديث: من أتاكم وأمركم جميع على رجل واحد يريد أن يشق عصاكم أو يفرق جماعتكم فاقتلوه. روى ذلك كله مسلم في صحيحه.
قال الإمام النووي: فيه الأمر بقتال من خرج على الإمام أو أراد تفريق المسلمين ونحو ذلك، ونهي عن ذلك فإن لم ينته قوتل، وإن لم يندفع شره إلا بقتله قتل.
وفي الحديث دليل على منع إقامة إمامين أو خليفتين لأن ذلك يؤدي إلى الشقاق والمخالفة، وحدوث الفتن وزوال النعم، وقد نقل الإجماع على ذلك النووي في شرح مسلم فقال: اتفق العلماء على أنه لا يجوز أن يعقد لخليفتين من عصر واحد سواء اتسعت دار الإسلام أم لا،

وقال : { من جاءكم وأمركم على رجل واحد ، يريد أن يفرق جماعتكم ، فاضربوا عنقه بالسيف كائنا من كان } . { وأمر بقتل رجل تعمد عليه الكذب ،
​

 

[Muhammad]

Assalaamu Alaykum,

I don't think we are going to get anywhere with arguments. Remember that it's not our responsibility to place labels upon others, deciding who is kaafir, etc. Yes, we can all clearly see mistakes in some of the rulers but there is no benefit in attacking them here. Perhaps we might even earn sins for delving into things that did not concern us, or backbiting. Let us avoid such discussions Insha'Allaah and focus on the things that we can change and which truly benefit.

We are now in the 10 days of Dhul-Hijjah... let us enter them upon goodness and close the doors to all that does not benefit Insha'Allaah.

Thread closed.