What is Gaza?

[Woodrow]

I am writing this just to give some insight into what Gaza is and perhaps help explain why it brings about such strong emotions for Palestinians and Muslims in General.

In tems of real estate, it is quite small. Only 360 km² .



For comparison Greater London is 1579 km² , New York City is 790 km2, Rapid City SD is 115.7 km2 I mention Rapid City because it is considered to be a very small city.

Now why is there such a big fuss over such a small region?

Because it is in effect a prison camp and the residents are Palestinians exiled from their homes in what is now Israel. also even this crowed piece of real estate is slowly being taken away.

Environment - current issues:
desertification; salination of fresh water; sewage treatment; water-borne disease; soil degradation; depletion and contamination of underground water resources
Geography - note:
there are 25 Israeli settlements and civilian land use sites in the Gaza Strip (February 2002 est.)
People Gaza Strip
Population:
1,376,289
note: in addition, there are more than 5,000 Israeli settlers in the Gaza Strip (July 2005 est.)

The people are 100% dependent upon Israel for basic necessities such as water, electricity, sewarge disposal. The do not even have their own currency or means of importing/exporting except through Israel.

Currency (code):
new Israeli shekel (ILS)

Population:
1,376,289

Refugees and internally displaced persons:
refugees (country of origin): 922,674 (Palestinian Refugees

Economy - overview:
High population density, limited land access, and strict internal and external controls have kept economic conditions in the Gaza Strip - the smaller of the two areas under the Palestinian Authority - even more degraded than in the West Bank. An anticipated Israeli withdrawal from the Gaza Strip in 2005 may offer some medium-term opportunities for economic growth. The beginning of the second intifadah in September 2000 sparked an economic downturn, largely the result of Israeli closure policies; these policies, which were imposed in response to security interests in Israel, disrupted labor and commodity relationships with the Gaza Strip. In 2001, and even more severely in 2003, Israeli military measures in Palestinian Authority areas resulted in the destruction of much capital plant, the disruption of administrative structure, and widespread business closures. Including the West Bank, the UN estimates that more than 100,000 Palestinians out of the 125,000 who used to work in Israel or in joint industrial zones have lost their jobs. International aid of $2 billion to Gaza Strip and the West Bank in 2004 prevented the complete collapse of the economy and allowed some reforms in the government's financial operations. Meanwhile unemployment has continued at half the labor force.

Source for the Quotes:http://geography.about.com/library/cia/blcgaza.htm

 

[aamirsaab]

Good thread.

 

[Suomipoika]

also even this crowed piece of real estate is slowly being taken away.

Is that even true? Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. What have they slowly been taking away from Gaza strip?

 

[Woodrow]

Is that even true? Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. What have they slowly been taking away from Gaza strip?

I think the best answer for that will wait and see what the latest loss is after the truce is finalized.

In the meantime:

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1232143908.html

 

[sister herb]

Is that even true? Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005. What have they slowly been taking away from Gaza strip?

If they really withdrew from Gaza, why they still controll all borders of Gaza; on the ground, air and sea?

:X

Don´t look too much news from YLE or Helsingin Sanomat, dear Suomipoika. They lies to you as like Pravda before.

:statisfie

 

[sister herb]

For others as information Finland = Suomi.

 

[Suomipoika]

I think the best answer for that will wait and see what the latest loss is after the truce is finalized.

In the meantime:

http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1232143908.html

Personally I oppose the settlement building in West Bank. Are you trying to tell me that people are mad about Gaza strip because of what is happening in West Bank?

None of the prison like conditions would exist if Hamas and friends would leave Israel alone. I have very hard time understanding why randomly shooting rockets into Israel isnt such a big deal to so many (if I remember right, 6000 since 2005 withdrawal). Fire that actually has killed and wounded peole, women and children included. Those who suffer most from the actions of Hamas are unfortunately palestinians themselves when the innevitable retaliation from Israel comes. Why cant Israel try to stop Hamas from smugling rockets into Gaza that are used to attack them? Why is that so wrong and evil?

Basically I see your original post as saying people are mad at Israel over Gaza because Israel defends itself from regular attacks from Gaza. They havent taken anything from this small real estate since 2005 withdrawal and I am totally convinced that blockade, siege and prison like conditions would gradually go away once the attacks from Gaza stop.

 

[Suomipoika]

If they really withdrew from Gaza, why they still controll all borders of Gaza; on the ground, air and sea?

:X

Don´t look too much news from YLE or Helsingin Sanomat, dear Suomipoika. They lies to you as like Pravda before.

:statisfie

I dont like Yle or HS much but somehow I trust them more than someone who shows picture of a man holding anti-tank rocket and old muddy track as proof for dozens of destroyed Israeli tanks.

Besides, I think both Yle and HS have reported at one time or another that Israel controls the borders in Gaza and blockade it.

 

[sister herb]

Besides, I think both Yle and HS have reported at one time or another that Israel controls the borders in Gaza and blockade it.

So why you claim then: Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, if you know it is not true but lie of zionists?

 

[Suomipoika]

So why you claim then: Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005, if you know it is not true but lie of zionists?

Because dismantling settlements and withdrawing from Gaza and controlling its borders to prevent weapons from being smuggled in are two different things.

Besides I think Egypt controls the border between Gaza and Egypt.

 

[sister herb]

What is left from Gaza?

Ruins of destroyed mosques, homes, schools?

After the cease-fire, Palestinian climbing plant the green flag on the rubble of the bombed mosque in Gaza by the Zionist army. She talks to her even my brothers and sisters. The faith of Islam in Palestine and their just cause now seems unbreakable.

 

[aamirsaab]

...Those who suffer most from the actions of Hamas are unfortunately palestinians themselves when the innevitable retaliation from Israel comes. Why cant Israel try to stop Hamas from smugling rockets into Gaza that are used to attack them? Why is that so wrong and evil?....

The problem is when Israel's government attacks and kills civilians then passes the blame onto hamas, citing terrorism (which is EXACTLY what the israeli army is doing when it retaliates!).

If the Israeli government pushed for discussion and negotiation with hamas instead of blowing gaza to bits then I'd say ok hamas is being a real jackass and I wouldn't be as harsh on Israel. However, it was Israel who broke the ceasefire and then had the nerve to blame it on hamas...that's just outright bull crap. So on the one hand we've got hamas causing civilian deaths (which is completely forbidden in Islam) but we've also got Israel causing civilian deaths (more, in fact) and then blaming it on the opposition!

Both are as bad as each other but you cannot possibly agree with Israel when it not only lies about the situation but also passes the buck onto Hamas when itself cocks up.

Until Israel stops de-housing palestinians and up-rooting settlers, Hamas will continue to exist - not just as a goverment party, but as an idea. And everyone knows, you cannot kill ideas.

 

[Suomipoika]

However, it was Israel who broke the ceasefire and then had the nerve to blame it on hamas...that's just outright bull crap.

You are aware that there wasnt single month last year when rockets and mortar shells werent fired into Israel from Gaza? Ill say that again, not a single month when Israel wasnt targeted with rockets and mortars from Gaza. How long do they have to suffer this, during so callled ceasefire? Perhaps they also should allow palestinians to dig tunnels and kidnap their soldiers, because if they try to prevent it, like early november, they break the ceasefire. How close do they need to allow these tunnels to appear before they can respond?

So on the one hand we've got hamas causing civilian deaths (which is completely forbidden in Islam) but we've also got Israel causing civilian deaths (more, in fact) and then blaming it on the opposition!

If there was no attacks from Gaza there would be no civilian deaths in Gaza. Each and every death in Gaza strip for the past weeks/years is the fault of Hamas and the likes of them. Its really shockingly simple: stop firing rockets into Israel. I believe 100% that both civilian deaths and prison like conditions will go away once this happens.

Both are as bad as each other but you cannot possibly agree with Israel when it not only lies about the situation but also passes the buck onto Hamas when itself cocks up.

Amazingly enough this is the first conflict involving Israel where I find myself agreeing with them quite strongly. Id be lying if Id say this forum didnt have quite a strong effect on pushing me towards that direction, years ago I used to be quite anti-Israel. So yes, I agree with Israel, they arent perfect and the settlement building is wrong but they have every right to defend their civilians, their soldiers and their rightful homelands. If Gazans and palestinians want to improve their situation the first dreadful step is to leave Israel alone and accept that its not going anywhere.

 

[sister herb]

During so-called ceasefire, what only Hamas followed; during that time zionists continued they attacks against Palestinian civilians, both in Gaza and the West Bank, murdering civilians, destroying homes, kidnapping people and torturing them in they jails. Also they kept economical siege and kept borders closed. In cause of this siege hundreds of patients died; partly because they couldn´t travel to other countries for get treatment, zionists didn´t let medicines to Gaza.

"Hamas, Islamic Jihad set terms for mutual ceasefire, demand Israeli withdrawal from Gaza

Israeli troops withdraw from southern Gaza City, vacating Salah Ad-Din road!

;D Go away and never return...

 

[aamirsaab]

You are aware that there wasnt single month last year when rockets and mortar shells werent fired into Israel from Gaza? Ill say that again, not a single month when Israel wasnt targeted with rockets and mortars from Gaza. How long do they have to suffer this, during so callled ceasefire? Perhaps they also should allow palestinians to dig tunnels and kidnap their soldiers, because if they try to prevent it, like early november, they break the ceasefire. How close do they need to allow these tunnels to appear before they can respond?

And did Israel open any negotiation channels with hamas? No. They responded in kind and killed more than hamas did in a shorter period of time. Who is the greater evil here?

If there was no attacks from Gaza there would be no civilian deaths in Gaza. Each and every death in Gaza strip for the past weeks/years is the fault of Hamas and the likes of them. Its really shockingly simple: stop firing rockets into Israel. I believe 100% that both civilian deaths and prison like conditions will go away once this happens.

Hamas exist as a direct result of Israels government stealing land. If Israel gives the land back and stops trying to steal what little is left of palestinian land I'm pretty sure Hamas will stop firing rockets. If they don't - then fine, impeach them or whatever it is you do to oppressive regimes these days.

...So yes, I agree with Israel, they arent perfect and the settlement building is wrong but they have every right to defend their civilians, their soldiers and their rightful homelands.

But at what cost? Israel's army has already killed 1000+ people (majority being civilians) in less than a month. Hamas as a movement only gains momentum from this. Israeli lives are spared for the short term whilst thousands of palestinians die - and the so called cause of it all gets stronger and will as a direct result come back harder. This is not victory - this is a loss.

If Gazans and palestinians want to improve their situation the first dreadful step is to leave Israel alone and accept that its not going anywhere.

Hamas is the only thing keeping palestine on the world map. I don't particularly like that the situation has come to this (I have a lot of resentment for other muslim countries that are not even lifting a finger to help their fellow muslim brothers and sisters - some don't even have the guts to provide lip service!) but it is true: Hamas is the only road block palestine has left.

Remove hamas, say good bye 1.3 million people and the rest of palestine and say hello to the biggest terrorist regime on earth that just got away with mass murder/genocide, theft, hypocricy and deceit.

And just to clarify: I don't support hamas (in fact, I condemn them and any other regime that sees fit to kill civilians), but I do support what they fight for: Palestine.

 

[Woodrow]

I agree with Bro. Aamirsaab fully and even more with this statement:

And just to clarify: I don't support hamas (in fact, I condemn them and any other regime that sees fit to kill civilians), but I do support what they fight for: Palestine.

Gaza is a prison. Prisoners like to escape by any means possible. As bad as Hamas is, it is the only visible light to the people of Gaza.

The way for us to end the need for Hamas, is for us to provide the people in Gaza what Hamas offers, except in a better method. The problem is nobody seems to know what is a better method that will work.

Think, what can you and I do to provide the light that the people in Gaza believe Hamas shows them.

1. Make their plight known to the world

2. Do what we can to keep from supporting zionist aggression

3. Let our feelings be known to the leaders of our perspective countries.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

I am writing this just to give some insight into what Gaza is and perhaps help explain why it brings about such strong emotions for Palestinians and Muslims in General.

In tems of real estate, it is quite small. Only 360 km² .

What was the population of Gaza in 1948?

 

[Woodrow]

What was the population of Gaza in 1948?

Approxiamatly 60,000 to 80,000.

Sources:

http://english.aljazeera.net/focus/arabunity/2008/02/2008525185737842919.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza

In 1997 the population was Population (1997 estimate) 353,632. Which is acknowledged to be 6 times it's 1948 population, in the same source below
Source: http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761573091/gaza.html

 

[Suomipoika]

And did Israel open any negotiation channels with hamas? No. They responded in kind and killed more than hamas did in a shorter period of time. Who is the greater evil here?

So Israel broke the ceasefire because they didnt initiate negotiations with Hamas ? I dont quite follow that logic. Why doesnt it apply both ways? By for starters, I dont know, Hamas accepting Israels right to exist?

Hamas exist as a direct result of Israels government stealing land. If Israel gives the land back and stops trying to steal what little is left of palestinian land I'm pretty sure Hamas will stop firing rockets. If they don't - then fine, impeach them or whatever it is you do to oppressive regimes these days.

There is no excuse to land stealing however Israel withdrew from Gaza. Giving that land back apparently ammounted to nothing and only thing that caused was increased rocket fire. I just dont find your claim believable.

But at what cost? Israel's army has already killed 1000+ people (majority being civilians) in less than a month. Hamas as a movement only gains momentum from this. Israeli lives are spared for the short term whilst thousands of palestinians die - and the so called cause of it all gets stronger and will as a direct result come back harder. This is not victory - this is a loss.

Hamas is the only thing keeping palestine on the world map. I don't particularly like that the situation has come to this (I have a lot of resentment for other muslim countries that are not even lifting a finger to help their fellow muslim brothers and sisters - some don't even have the guts to provide lip service!) but it is true: Hamas is the only road block palestine has left.

Remove hamas, say good bye 1.3 million people and the rest of palestine and say hello to the biggest terrorist regime on earth that just got away with mass murder/genocide, theft, hypocricy and deceit.

And just to clarify: I don't support hamas (in fact, I condemn them and any other regime that sees fit to kill civilians), but I do support what they fight for: Palestine.

So you dont support Hamas. Israel is wrong when it resorts to violence and doesnt open negotiations with Hamas. Hamas is the only road block Palestine has left. Not for example Fatah, palestinian group that has opened negotiations with Israel, that has tried to avoid violence while negotiating with Israel.

I find this bit inconsistent: Israel is chastised for violence and the lack of negotiations but the only road block to Palestinian existence on map arent those who negotiate but the ones that keep the war going by purposefully targetting civilians and provoking Israel to attack them.

And at what cost? Over 1000+ people death most of whom are civilians in 3 weeks, who knows how many in all these year, not to mention all the poverty and prison like conditions. What the road block has caused is rather strong unity in Israel and the sence that they are justified in their actions and as seen past weeks very heavy direct results. Hamas isnt a road block, its a target sign for bombs and misery. The only thing they have really been blocking all these years is public world support for palestinians in any meaningful way.

 

[MO783]

What is left from Gaza?

Ruins of destroyed mosques, homes, schools?


very ture

such a shame