What is Islam’s understanding of this verse?
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Isa Abdullah
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No problem, Snake.
Snake Legs, I can see how the subject can be very confusing.
There are certain assumptions people make about, what the Bible say’s and doesn’t say.
Christians are no exception to the rule.
The fact is on certain issues, the more you learn the more you realize just how little we do know and have a fairly complete understanding of.
An example would be this:
God is all knowing, the bible states this.
God came down to see if the reports he had received concerning Sodom and Gomorra were true. God says that if the reports are true he will know it.
Jesus says he will send the Holy Spirit. The Bible records, in the book of Acts, Luke saying that the Holy Spirit Jesus warned Paul not to go into Asia until a later time.
Jesus say’s, when asked by the apostles to clearly show them the Father, if you have seen me then you have seen the Father.
Jesus say’s that he is in the Father and the Father is in him. That they are One and as seen in the book of Acts, Jesus is recorded as the Holy Spirit.
We as men want to reduce, what we know of, to something we can understand. That is perfectly natural, we all do it.
The personal make up of God’s being according to the bible is not to be completely understood by man.
I, personally find the term “Trinity” to be a bit lacking in answering some of the questions raised by thoughtful people.
I do not agree that there are 3 separate, but equal, Gods that are One in purpose.
I believe that there is but One God that has shown his self to us in 3 different lights.
In Old Testament scripture we find recordings of 4 four-faced creatures. The same four-faced creatures are recorded in the book of Revelation. There they are referred to as God’s Seven-Fold Spirit.
I, nor anyone else can explain the personal make-up of the four-faced creatures. None of the faces seem to be subservient to the remaining 3 faces. All appear equal. The four faces all have different attributes, yet they are all acting as one in purpose.
They are an example of a being/creature that is 4-in1.
The one face is in the others faces being, as the other 3 faces being is in the one face.
Each face has sets of hands that appear to be devoted to that face alone. Every face sits at the right hand of the other adjoining face.
When you have seen any one face, you have seen the being.
If I show the face of the Eagle, then you have seen the being that is the Man-face, and the being that is the Lion-face.
Four separate faces, yet one being, all one in purpose.
The nature of God’s make-up is yet to be fully understood by mankind.
It is my opinion that we all know very much less about God’s make up than we think we do.
I wish someone would explain to me what exactly a Seven-Fold Spirit is, when a man can do that I will sit up and take notice of what he has to say.
Snake Legs, I am sort of taking a break from my remodeling project this morning. It rained all day yesterday and looks very rainy this morning.
If it does rain today, I will try and take advantage of it and post some scripture for you.
Thanks
Nimrod
There are certain assumptions people make about, what the Bible say’s and doesn’t say.
Christians are no exception to the rule.
The fact is on certain issues, the more you learn the more you realize just how little we do know and have a fairly complete understanding of.
An example would be this:
God is all knowing, the bible states this.
God came down to see if the reports he had received concerning Sodom and Gomorra were true. God says that if the reports are true he will know it.
Jesus says he will send the Holy Spirit. The Bible records, in the book of Acts, Luke saying that the Holy Spirit Jesus warned Paul not to go into Asia until a later time.
Jesus say’s, when asked by the apostles to clearly show them the Father, if you have seen me then you have seen the Father.
Jesus say’s that he is in the Father and the Father is in him. That they are One and as seen in the book of Acts, Jesus is recorded as the Holy Spirit.
We as men want to reduce, what we know of, to something we can understand. That is perfectly natural, we all do it.
The personal make up of God’s being according to the bible is not to be completely understood by man.
I, personally find the term “Trinity” to be a bit lacking in answering some of the questions raised by thoughtful people.
I do not agree that there are 3 separate, but equal, Gods that are One in purpose.
I believe that there is but One God that has shown his self to us in 3 different lights.
In Old Testament scripture we find recordings of 4 four-faced creatures. The same four-faced creatures are recorded in the book of Revelation. There they are referred to as God’s Seven-Fold Spirit.
I, nor anyone else can explain the personal make-up of the four-faced creatures. None of the faces seem to be subservient to the remaining 3 faces. All appear equal. The four faces all have different attributes, yet they are all acting as one in purpose.
They are an example of a being/creature that is 4-in1.
The one face is in the others faces being, as the other 3 faces being is in the one face.
Each face has sets of hands that appear to be devoted to that face alone. Every face sits at the right hand of the other adjoining face.
When you have seen any one face, you have seen the being.
If I show the face of the Eagle, then you have seen the being that is the Man-face, and the being that is the Lion-face.
Four separate faces, yet one being, all one in purpose.
The nature of God’s make-up is yet to be fully understood by mankind.
It is my opinion that we all know very much less about God’s make up than we think we do.
I wish someone would explain to me what exactly a Seven-Fold Spirit is, when a man can do that I will sit up and take notice of what he has to say.
Snake Legs, I am sort of taking a break from my remodeling project this morning. It rained all day yesterday and looks very rainy this morning.
If it does rain today, I will try and take advantage of it and post some scripture for you.
Thanks
Nimrod
Isa Abdullah
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The Athanasian Creed
"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;Neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Spirit.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son and such is the Holy Spirit.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Spirit uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty;
And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
And yet they are not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every person by himself to be God and Lord;
so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say: There are three Gods or three Lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
And in this Trinity none is afore, nor after another; none is greater, or less than another.But the whole three persons are co-eternal, and co-equal.
So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and made of the substance of His mother, born in the world.
Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God.
One altogether, not by the confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
He ascended into heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty;
From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
And shall give account of their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved."
"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith;Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.
And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity;Neither confounding the persons, nor dividing the substance.
For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son and another of the Holy Spirit.
But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son and such is the Holy Spirit.
The Father uncreate, the Son uncreate, and the Holy Spirit uncreate.
The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal.
And yet they are not three eternals, but one eternal.
As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensibles, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible.
So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty;
And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God;
And yet they are not three Gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord;
And yet they are not three Lords, but one Lord.
For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every person by himself to be God and Lord;
so are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say: There are three Gods or three Lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten.
The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten.
The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits.
And in this Trinity none is afore, nor after another; none is greater, or less than another.But the whole three persons are co-eternal, and co-equal.
So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped.
He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.
Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man.
God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and made of the substance of His mother, born in the world.
Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting.
Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood.
Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ.
One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of the manhood into God.
One altogether, not by the confusion of substance, but by unity of person.
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ;
Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead;
He ascended into heaven, He sitteth on the right hand of the Father, God Almighty;
From thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies;
And shall give account of their own works.
And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting, and they that have done evil into everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully, he cannot be saved."
Isa Abdullah
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bismillah
the point is Allaah (GOD) has told us what He is and what he is not. We do not know how or what HE looks like, but we know HE never became a man and that HE is the one and only.
the point is Allaah (GOD) has told us what He is and what he is not. We do not know how or what HE looks like, but we know HE never became a man and that HE is the one and only.
Salaam,
According the Bible,Jesus and god are not equal in might nor in knowledge.
Jesus cannot perform miracle without God.In all acts Jesus seek blessing from Allah.
In knowledge,Jesus does not know when is the last day only "the father know"...
thus the father and son and spirit are not equal..
According the Bible,Jesus and god are not equal in might nor in knowledge.
Jesus cannot perform miracle without God.In all acts Jesus seek blessing from Allah.
In knowledge,Jesus does not know when is the last day only "the father know"...
thus the father and son and spirit are not equal..
Isa Abdullah
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bismillah
There is a major difference beween what the Bible teaches and how the Nasara present their scriptures. It is plain to see that Isa ibn Maryam (as) was not Allaah (ta'ala) but they interpret it to mean so.
There is a major difference beween what the Bible teaches and how the Nasara present their scriptures. It is plain to see that Isa ibn Maryam (as) was not Allaah (ta'ala) but they interpret it to mean so.
read Surah Ikhlaas and ayat ul khursi
those are the best descriptions of allah in the quran.
I don't know ayat ul khursi in translation by heart, but I know surah ikhlaas it is:
Say: He is allah, the one, the eternal. he begets not (does not have a son) nor is he begotten (he is not the son of anybody) there is nothing comparable to him.
My favourite chapter!!!!
(and no, not because it is so short! lol)
those are the best descriptions of allah in the quran.
I don't know ayat ul khursi in translation by heart, but I know surah ikhlaas it is:
Say: He is allah, the one, the eternal. he begets not (does not have a son) nor is he begotten (he is not the son of anybody) there is nothing comparable to him.
My favourite chapter!!!!
(and no, not because it is so short! lol)
ummAbdillah
~Aisha~
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salaam,
true say brother,
[112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.
[112.2] Allah is He on Whom all depend.
[112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
[112.4] And none is like Him.
(surah ikhlaas)
[2.255] Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.
(ayahtul kursi)
wa salaam
true say brother,
[112.1] Say: He, Allah, is One.
[112.2] Allah is He on Whom all depend.
[112.3] He begets not, nor is He begotten.
[112.4] And none is like Him.
(surah ikhlaas)
[2.255] Allah is He besides Whom there is no god, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all subsist; slumber does not overtake Him nor sleep; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; who is he that can intercede with Him but by His permission? He knows what is before them and what is behind them, and they cannot comprehend anything out of His knowledge except what He pleases, His knowledge extends over the heavens and the earth, and the preservation of them both tires Him not, and He is the Most High, the Great.
(ayahtul kursi)
wa salaam