What is mysticism?

[poga]

mysticism is a system of contemplative prayer and spirituality aimed at achiving direct intuitive experiance of divine it is a experiance of reality surpassing normal human understanding it begins with one becomes alone with only his self to accompany him self and it is nothing new our prophet MUHAMMAD SALLEL LA HU ALAHI WA SALLIM used to contemplate alone at mount HIRA

 

[Fishman]

Is there any evidence of the "philosophical sufism" (which is that form prevalent in 'the west' as the form of sufism associated with the name "Sufi"), being connected through Indigenous and aboriginal people of the middle east with the Buddhist Tradition in places like Afghanistan, (that is older than the Tibetean Buddhist tradition holds records)?

I wouldn't say that philosophical Sufism is common in the west, its mostly common among hippy-types who who deny its Islamic connections completely.

Also, Sufism isn't a sect, unlike some people seem to think, its a type of religious practice. There are many none Sufis who believe it is valid. But I shall say no more, as this is starting to stray into sectarian grounds...

 

[Skillganon]

Sufism is a sect.

It never was part of Islam or never practice of the salaf. It was later introduced into it.

At earliest you can say they where ascetic but that was going into the extreme of it, and not to mention it would not exactly equate to sufism as whole.

Nowdays it cannot be said sufism is without strange saying, belief, fantastical tales, vulcan mind melds with shiekh spock, innovation, shirk.

Obviousely they differ amongst one group to another from belief, practice, innovation to shirk.

Allah(swt) messeneger has made it clear their is one path and that path is what he and his companions where upon...any other path is leading to hellfire.

Wassalam.

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

Sufism is a sect.

It never was part of Islam or never practice of the salaf. It was later introduced into it.

At earliest you can say they where ascetic but that was going into the extreme of it, and not to mention it would not exactly equate to sufism as whole.

Nowdays it cannot be said sufism is without strange saying, belief, fantastical tales, vulcan mind melds with shiekh spock, innovation, shirk.

Obviousely they differ amongst one group to another from belief, practice, innovation to shirk.

Allah(swt) messeneger has made it clear their is one path and that path is what he and his companions where upon...any other path is leading to hellfire.

Wassalam.

Presumably in this one path, one must be male. Mohammed and his companions, like Jesus and his companions and every other prophet were men. Where does that leave women? Are you implying that all women shall burn in hell-fire? A Sufi would argue, of course, that everybody incarnates as male upon his final and perfected incarnation.

 

[Fishman]

Presumably in this one path, one must be male. Mohammed and his companions, like Jesus and his companions and every other prophet were men. Where does that leave women? Are you implying that all women shall burn in hell-fire? A Sufi would argue, of course, that everybody incarnates as male upon his final and perfected incarnation.

Sufis do not believe in reincarnation, and women will enter Heaven. Just because all the prophets were men doesn't mean that women will all go to Hell.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

Selam aleykum Laith Al-Doory
What he meant was that we should only follow that path (path of those exclusive group of people mentioned) He never said anybody not belonging to that group will be in hellfire.

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

Sufis do not believe in reincarnation, and women will enter Heaven. Just because all the prophets were men doesn't mean that women will all go to Hell.

Sufis do in fact believe in reincarnation. Of the many heavens of Islam, the highest is reserved for men. There is no reference to the female gender in the paradise of Islam. The term 'houri' in the Qur'an is in fact grammatically masculine even though it is translated as feminine or sometimes replaced with the feminine 'houria'. Likewise the term for 'companion' is often replaced with 'wife' by translaters of the Qur'an.

Judaism and Christianity hold similar doctrines. '. . . no woman shall enter the kingdom of heaven except as a man . . .' is a quote from Jesus in the Gospels.

 

[rav]

Sufis do in fact believe in reincarnation. Of the many heavens of Islam, the highest is reserved for men. There is no reference to the female gender in the paradise of Islam. The term 'houri' in the Qur'an is in fact grammatically masculine even though it is translated as feminine or sometimes replaced with the feminine 'houria'. Likewise the term for 'companion' is often replaced with 'wife' by translaters of the Qur'an.

Judaism and Christianity hold similar doctrines. '. . . no woman shall enter the kingdom of heaven except as a man . . .' is a quote from Jesus in the Gospels.

Shalom,

I would love to hear where Judaism holds such a belief.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Sufis do in fact believe in reincarnation. Of the many heavens of Islam, the highest is reserved for men. There is no reference to the female gender in the paradise of Islam. The term 'houri' in the Qur'an is in fact grammatically masculine even though it is translated as feminine or sometimes replaced with the feminine 'houria'. Likewise the term for 'companion' is often replaced with 'wife' by translaters of the Qur'an.

Why don't you bring your proof? You cannot make heretical claims like this without proving them. So bring the proof please.

Or else I will simply delete your post and close this thread because you are spreading false and inauthentic information. This is your only chance.

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

A Sufi verse:

"I died as mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was man.
Why should I fear?
When was I less by dying?"

Admittedly, with the rise of so-called 'Islamic fundamentalism' sufis are now less open in their beliefs.

With regard to the wording in the Qur'an in its description of Paradise, this is self-evident to anybody with a basic understanding of Arabic.

 

[NoName55]

Brother said Proof from reputable source, Not more ramblings.

 

[Fishman]

A Sufi verse:

"I died as mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was man.
Why should I fear?
When was I less by dying?"

Admittedly, with the rise of so-called 'Islamic fundamentalism' sufis are now less open in their beliefs.

With regard to the wording in the Qur'an in its description of Paradise, this is self-evident to anybody with a basic understanding of Arabic.

The Quran says we only die once though:

Nor will they there Taste Death, except the first Death; and He will preserve Them from the Penalty Of the Blazing Fire." (The Quran, 44:56).

Harldly any Sufis believe in reincarnation anyway, and certainly no Orthodox Muslims (who some people on this board seem to think are Sufis).

 

[Laith Al-Doory]

There is no contradiction here. A personality does in fact die only once. The conscious self does not pass onto the next incarnation, which may be physically completely different. The memory of the previous incarnation is effectively absorbed into the subconcious to form the instinctive self. Everybody is born with an instinctive self. One's personality is defined by one's past, an accumilation of all past experience, including that of previous incarnations. If one had not lived before, one would have the instincts and intelligence of an ant. However, for all intents and purposes, you only have one physical life, which is why the doctrine of reincarnation does not form a major part of Islamic teaching.

It is not my intention to prove anything, but to explain. If people want proof, they should do some research of their own.

 

[Trumble]

Brother said Proof from reputable source, Not more ramblings.

Would you not class Rumi as a 'reputable source'?

Here's the whole poem;

I died as a mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was Man.
Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar
With angels blest; but even from angelhood
I must pass on: all except God doth perish.
When I have sacrificed my angel-soul,
I shall become what no mind e'er conceived.
Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence
Proclaims in organ tones, 'To Him we shall return.'

Interpret as you will.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Would you not class Rumi as a 'reputable source'?

No.

 

[Trumble]

No.

Very helpful, I'm sure.

Why not?

 

[NoName55]

Very helpful, I'm sure.

Why not?

greetings

Did I not apologize via private message about any missunderstandings? and gave a little more detailed explaination?

If Not, here goes again + little more

Reputable in this context means, an author/scholar who writes according to guidance From Quraan and Sunnah of RasulAllah Muhammad P.B.U.H.

Disreputable source in this context is any one one who mixes and matches, or sees God and/or Prophets in his dreams in which they tell him to write contrary to the way Rightly guided wrote or taught.

Edit:
What is wrong with a simple truthful No, Not every one enjoys writing long winded useless posts and argument when a simple concise answer will suffice

 

[Trumble]

Did I not apologize via private message about any missunderstandings? and gave a little more detailed explaination?

Yes, you did, and thank you for that.

Reputable in this context means, an author/scholar who writes according to guidance From Quraan and Sunnah of RasulAllah Muhammad P.B.U.H.

Disreputable source in this context is any one one who mixes and matches, or sees God and/or Prophets in his dreams in which they tell him to write contrary to the way Rightly guided wrote or taught.

I understand that is what you and Al Madani (to whom I was replying) mean, but to me it makes no sense in this context. The point at issue is what Sufis may or may not believe, specifically in regard to reincarnation of some sort - not whether they are necessarily correct in believing it. That is clearly a matter of opinion, which like all theological issues cannot be proven either way. Laith Al-Doory made the extent of his claim quite clear and the request made of him makes no sense if taken in the context you are suggesting.

I would consider that Rumi is about as reputable as you can get as a source regarding what Sufis believe (or at least believed), certainly far more reptutable than the sort of scholar you suggest, who rejects Sufism as heretical before even starting to explain it. It would be as absurd as asking the Pope to explain Islamic belief rather than an Islamic scholar.

 

[Curaezipirid]

Sufis do in fact believe in reincarnation. Of the many heavens of Islam, the highest is reserved for men. There is no reference to the female gender in the paradise of Islam. The term 'houri' in the Qur'an is in fact grammatically masculine even though it is translated as feminine or sometimes replaced with the feminine 'houria'. Likewise the term for 'companion' is often replaced with 'wife' by translaters of the Qur'an.

Judaism and Christianity hold similar doctrines. '. . . no woman shall enter the kingdom of heaven except as a man . . .' is a quote from Jesus in the Gospels.

Shalom,

I would love to hear where Judaism holds such a belief.

Why don't you bring your proof? You cannot make heretical claims like this without proving them. So bring the proof please.

Or else I will simply delete your post and close this thread because you are spreading false and inauthentic information. This is your only chance.

A Sufi verse:

"I died as mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was man.
Why should I fear?
When was I less by dying?"

Admittedly, with the rise of so-called 'Islamic fundamentalism' sufis are now less open in their beliefs.

With regard to the wording in the Qur'an in its description of Paradise, this is self-evident to anybody with a basic understanding of Arabic.

Brother said Proof from reputable source, Not more ramblings.

The Quran says we only die once though:


Harldly any Sufis believe in reincarnation anyway, and certainly no Orthodox Muslims (who some people on this board seem to think are Sufis).

There is no contradiction here. A personality does in fact die only once. The conscious self does not pass onto the next incarnation, which may be physically completely different. The memory of the previous incarnation is effectively absorbed into the subconcious to form the instinctive self. Everybody is born with an instinctive self. One's personality is defined by one's past, an accumilation of all past experience, including that of previous incarnations. If one had not lived before, one would have the instincts and intelligence of an ant. However, for all intents and purposes, you only have one physical life, which is why the doctrine of reincarnation does not form a major part of Islamic teaching.

It is not my intention to prove anything, but to explain. If people want proof, they should do some research of their own.

Would you not class Rumi as a 'reputable source'?

Here's the whole poem;

I died as a mineral and became a plant,
I died as plant and rose to animal,
I died as animal and I was Man.
Why should I fear? When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as Man, to soar
With angels blest; but even from angelhood
I must pass on: all except God doth perish.
When I have sacrificed my angel-soul,
I shall become what no mind e'er conceived.
Oh, let me not exist! for Non-existence
Proclaims in organ tones, 'To Him we shall return.'

Interpret as you will.

No.

Very helpful, I'm sure.

Why not?

greetings

Did I not apologize via private message about any missunderstandings? and gave a little more detailed explaination?

If Not, here goes again + little more

Reputable in this context means, an author/scholar who writes according to guidance From Quraan and Sunnah of RasulAllah Muhammad P.B.U.H.

Disreputable source in this context is any one one who mixes and matches, or sees God and/or Prophets in his dreams in which they tell him to write contrary to the way Rightly guided wrote or taught.

Edit:
What is wrong with a simple truthful No, Not every one enjoys writing long winded useless posts and argument when a simple concise answer will suffice

This is just as usual in the forum, a hilarious series of misunderstandings of one another.

Sufism is a cultural identification and not a Religion. There are Sufi persons who are Mujahideen of Islam, and Sufi who are not yet converted.

Rumi is not a proper source for Shari'ah, but a very good source for communication of culture.

As to the belief of hereafter, there are real and really simple ways to reconcile various slight differences, which often turn out to be larger differences when translated into the English language than in other languages.


The fact of re-incarnation doctrines is that they are dangerous for any person to believe in unless the Soul is fully awake.

Yet there are individuals whom can not, in Allah, escape belief in having existed in a different time and place from their own present bodily life. The world provides a number of different explainations for such mental experiences. But what is the only important fact in Allah, is that if you take action in the world (even just breathing) within information from such a mental experience, then you are taking responsibility for acquiting the experience to the Angel of Death.

For example, I have experienced what are known as somatic hallucinations, in which I remembered being an animal. But because my present Human body has had that memory, I must acquit the experience again. The animal self is in me, yet not who my true self wants to be, so to attain Jannah, must I demolish and decompose that animal self through the grave.

It is a very common experience among all Australian Aborigines to regularly receive somatic hallucinations of being an animal, and we bring on such in each other very readily by will, as a measure of inducing fear of sinning. If ever our posture is less than perfect at any moment we can be caused to go into the belief that we are becoming more animal and less human. It is a biological condition of our race. But it is a biological condition in which we realise that we are truly willing to endure the experience because it reminds us so well of why we prefer to be in perfectly Human stance at all times. In that it is also that we are enabled in prayer very readily through the experience.

Our culture teaches that before we were born we were not Human but were only a part of nature, and that after we die our body will decompose and return to nature. In returning to nature, perhaps it will happen that I am a kangaroo again, or a blade of grass, and our way is to be proud of so being the sustaining force of our food sources. There is even a story about a man who refused to eat meat, and then perished in a famine, and then he turned into a tree, but the tree with his Soul in it arose into becoming the southern cross. So His soul arose into Heaven, not from a Human form, but from a tree. This is an important story in which much faith among our race is based.

The tree has no fear in Allah. Fear in Allah ends when the Human form accepts itself in the face of the Angel of Death.

So you see, my own culture has adherence to Islam, without ever claiming belief in reincarnation, but neither denying that we might want to avoid certain uncomfortable future consequences.

Frankly, my Human form carries so very much unwanted shaytan dialogue, that it will be a great relief to be eventually rid of it all (after I pass through the grave) and be able to work towards attaining Jannah from the shelter of the flora and fauna. At least flora and fauna can not lie, except in the obvious lie of not being the habitation of Human Souls.

Surely australian Aborigines can not be the only Muslims who believe alike to what I here describe?

 

[Curaezipirid]

Sufis do in fact believe in reincarnation. Of the many heavens of Islam, the highest is reserved for men. There is no reference to the female gender in the paradise of Islam. The term 'houri' in the Qur'an is in fact grammatically masculine even though it is translated as feminine or sometimes replaced with the feminine 'houria'. Likewise the term for 'companion' is often replaced with 'wife' by translaters of the Qur'an.

Judaism and Christianity hold similar doctrines. '. . . no woman shall enter the kingdom of heaven except as a man . . .' is a quote from Jesus in the Gospels.

I certainly am not intending to enter the kingdom of heaven in any form other than my own true feminine form. Frankly, I'd rather eternity in Jahannam that to try to go to heaven as a man.

But females perceive the future of the self, while male self perceives only the past. Because of that there is a danger of a female person imagining what Jannah might be like and being wrong, and so the whole female population is not generally encouraged to know about Jannah, that is, unless it is truly impossible in Allah not to know.

But, um, what is the whole quote you take that sentence from, surely it can not be telling woman to enter heaven as men, which is what you accidentally make it seem to be by putting only those words and not the whole context it is taken from.

Perhaps now you might perceive why I tell that there must be a way into Jannah through Jehannam, because being a female and even knowing that sihr exists, there can be no way to attain Jannah without some method of permanently finishing with the self which forms to protect us from the wrongs in sihr. The advantage of a female is in being able to so perceive that reality can be, while male's fear is greater before the hour, female acceptance of fear in Allah will be greater after the hour of judgment. That is because a mans sensibility of emotions is future oriented and a females is past oriented. At this time, unless you already descended into Jehannam, if you are a female, you can not possibly be sustaining adequate fear.