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Thread: What is perfection?
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ranma1/2

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Well what is it?

Can something perfect create imprefection?

Can pefection be improved on?

Can something perfect make mistakes?

Can you add or subtract from something perfect and make it better?

Does perfection exists?
 
Obviously you are asking this question in the context of God.

The phrase more appropriate to God would be "absolute perfection".

What is perfection? In the context of God it is in reference to His sovereign power. Meaning nothing happens outside of God's will. At least that is my understanding of the concept.

Can something perfect create imperfection? Obviously...God can choose to do as He wills. The question should be "would he?" When it comes to human beings, I believe the "perfection" God is looking for is avoidance of sin. That is next to impossible for a human being...but it is the active seeking of that perfection that rewards us with salvation through God.

Can perfection be improved on? If you are talking about God, I don't think the question is even relevant or sensible. Perhaps it is too early for philosophy.

Can something perfect make mistakes? Again, if you are talking about God I don't believe the question to be all that sensible. God is the ultimate and only sovereign divine power in the universe.

Can you add or subtract from something perfect and make it better? Sort of a repeat of other questions isn't it?

Does perfection exist? Only in One, that being God.
 
Can something perfect create imprefection?
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I think that's the only question needed in your post. A Perfect being will only create something which is lacking in perfection, since that imperfect being cannot be perfect.


Why can't it be perfect? Because it is dependant upon the Perfect being, i.e. its creation and sustenance. And the only One that could be Perfect is the one who is dependant upon no other.
 
We will because that's what implies perfection to us as believers
 
wouldnt a quality of being perfect include the ability to make perfection?

also the desire to create imperfection could be seen as imperfection.
 
If an author wrote a story about perfect characters with no flaws, and a perfect setting with no dangers, it would be a pretty boring story, wouldn't you say?

For me, contrast is perfection.
 
ranma1/2 said:
wouldnt a quality of being perfect include the ability to make perfection?
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This is like saying, can you pick up a rock which can't be picked up? The statement is flawed because a creation is by default imperfect by being created - since it was dependant upon God by being created in the first place. So how can it be perfect?


also the desire to create imperfection could be seen as imperfection.
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That's not true at all, there are many who create amazing technologies - yet they purposelly create flaws within them for safety purposes.

I.e. they may create glass which will break (whereas they could have installed glass which will not break) - but they allow the glass to be breakable so that a person can escape in a car accident for example.


Or, since you're from Japan - you've probably heard of Metal Gear Solid by Hideo Kojima. In that (in the game) - Otacon [the scientist guy] creates some flaws within the Metal Gear [which is a machine of destruction] incase it gets in the hands of people who may use it for a bad purpose.




Peace.
 
Hello and :sl:
Interesting topic
ranma1/2 said:
Well what is it?
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That's a good question. Let's take the dictionary definition:
# the state of being without a flaw or defect
# paragon: an ideal instance; a perfect embodiment of a concept
# the act of making something perfect

source

So 3 seperate definitions really. Let's go with the state of being without a flaw or defect. Problem arises; what constitutes as a flaw or defect? A siamise twin perhaps? But surely that is only a flaw in the sense that it is against the norm? In which case, perfection as a state of being is completely dependant upon society's perception.

Can something perfect create imprefection?
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All a matter of intention and context; for example a supplier of ketchup may dilute his product with water so he may stretch his product and essentially tripple his sales. Clearly an imperfect product. Admittedly, this is assuming the supplier is perfect which certainly impacts heavily on the example. In which case, it'd be rather difficult to give an appropriate example, unless you were referring to God.

Can pefection be improved on?
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Depends on the actual definition. Though i'll attempt an answer in a general sense of perfection: person A scores 98 out of 100 in his test. He cannot be called perfect (in relation to the test) because he clearly made a flaw (and lost 2 marks). But, person A is perfect compared to those who scored 0. (Though, maybe that's just a matter of perception?)

Can something perfect make mistakes?
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Matter of intent. Also, have to clarify what constitutes as a mistake (i.e is it really a mistake or is it a matter of perception)

Can you add or subtract from something perfect and make it better?
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Depends on how broad the definition of perfection is. Though, one answer that is feasable is a simple No.

Does perfection exists?
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Depends on your perception and definition of perfection. I personally believe the shark is the perfect predator (seeing as it hasn't had to evolve, plus it's a pure killing machine!) but one could easily dispute that with the fact that the shark isn't truly perfect, since it's only good at being a predator (one class, for example). In other words, it depends on how broad a definition you give to perfection; is it something individual or is it a general thing.

So it really depends on what perfection means.
 
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ranma1/2 said:
i have no doubt that subjective perfection exists but actual perfeciotn is the question.
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O ok.

In that case:

Can something perfect create imprefection? - No (though depends on intention)

Can pefection be improved on? - No

Can something perfect make mistakes? - No

Can you add or subtract from something perfect and make it better? - No

Does perfection exists - Yes (by this I mean God)
 
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ranma1/2 said:
Well what is it?

Can something perfect create imprefection?

Can pefection be improved on?

Can something perfect make mistakes?

Can you add or subtract from something perfect and make it better?

Does perfection exists?
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i thought it was a poem....:-[

Can something perfect create imprefection?
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Well god is perfect, if u mean mess up , no , if u mean mess something up on purpose, yes. if u dont mean god. no

Can pefection be improved on?
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perfect is high enough...cant get higher

Can something perfect make mistakes?
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No, its perfect...

Can you add or subtract from something perfect and make it better?
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Its already its highest. so no

Does perfection exists?
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Depends... if ur talkin bout god , yes, if ur talkin bout perfection in people. no

:w:
 
I suppose the best definition of "perfection" would be flawless. Then you have to define "flawless"...which would lead to other definitions. True, unless one is referring to God in this matter, the idea of perfection is completely subjective.
 
i think that perfection is not an absolute, and if it is, then it is unknowable....sorta like god is beyond our knowledge.
 
does a perfexct being require anything?
The usual answer is no.
Why does it require existence then?
Why did it create the universe?
All actions a product of a necessity, let it be an apparent one (hunger) or a hidden one ((hidden) psychological needs).
A perfect being would have neither apparent nor hidden needs and would therefore create nothing.

there are countless arguments against a perfect being (god), some are good, some are bad, there are people who will dismiss each one as stupid, as opposed to others who will calim every one proves there's no god..
 
Other than in reference to Allah, perfection is a only a perception. i.e. a person in love says someone is perfect, even though they may not be. So really the definition of perfection boils down to one's own perception. Make sense? :?
 
Why does God have to be perfect?
It's not a prerequisite for a deity is it?

OK, so it might have to be infinatly powerful, but that's not a reason why it cant make mistakes. The duck billed platypus springs to mind, dinosaurs etc.
 
barney said:
Why does God have to be perfect?
It's not a prerequisite for a deity is it?
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It's an assumption in regards to most deities. In Alla's case, He has several names which all classify Him as being perfect.

OK, so it might have to be infinatly powerful, but that's not a reason why it cant make mistakes. The duck billed platypus springs to mind, dinosaurs etc.
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All a matter of intent, you see. It's a similar question to why doesn't God stop all the poverty on Earth - It's the Will of Allah

Also: who's to say they are mistakes?
 
Whatsthepoint said:
does a perfexct being require anything?
The usual answer is no.
Why does it require existence then?
Why did it create the universe?
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Do you mean 'why does it require to create a universe of existence'? Or 'why does the being require its own existence'?

If you mean the first interpretation the answer is it does not require it, it simply willed it.

If you mean the second interpretation, that statement does not make sense.

All actions a product of a necessity, let it be an apparent one (hunger) or a hidden one ((hidden) psychological needs).
A perfect being would have neither apparent nor hidden needs and would therefore create nothing.
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From your fundamentally imperfect point of view. Not because you're you, but because you're human.

there are countless arguments against a perfect being (god), some are good, some are bad, there are people who will dismiss each one as stupid, as opposed to others who will calim every one proves there's no god..
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Perfection, as humans define it, is by necessity subjective. The most objective standard I can think of isn't really a standard at all - it's more about balance.