What is the belief of the Australian Aborigines?

[Joe98]

What is the meaning of the word "shayton"?

 

[*charisma*]

Greetings,

What is the meaning of the word "shayton"?

satan

regards,

 

[Curaezipirid]

Assalamaalaikum

Shaytan is Arabic for Satan; and I tend to use the Arabic comprehension of Satan when I spell it Shaytan.

There is a longer exposition of the full meaning. Satan is the name of the self that He was forced to exist within by the work of Souls whose cause is that of inhabiting Moon rather than Earth. His real name is Iblis.

The self that He inhabited as Satan is now that accessed regularly by a group of Souls whom are not Human Souls but yet have long inhabited Earth.

There are four sorts of Souls existing at Earth.

The Jinn, among whom is Iblis. There are eight whole Jinn: but Jinn are different from other people and manifest that one single life form has many individual persons, (usually 12). Mohammed (Peace go with Him always) spoke that Jinn also exist as a flying being, like to snakes and dogs, and in a place but able to move around.

Angels. There are very many other teachings about Angels that I need report little here. The fundamental nature of an Angel is to not be able to refute any self they encounter; so it can seem as constant miracle an Angel manifests goodly innocence, but due to hard work on the part of the Angel alone and in Allah.

Humans. Well if you are not yet knowing about a Human I guess that all I can state is the most of Islamic teaching is about being Human.

Shaytan. As an Angel is to a Human; a Human is to a Shaytan. But because of a sequencing accident in the formation of Moon, that it became into existance too soon, it happened that Shaytan first came into being at Earth instead of at Moon. But they got too naughty, and the Jinn came down to sort them out; that being why they share name with that Iblis bore a while. The Jinn are who took it upon their own self to eventually account for every instance of the black magic which Shatyan have worked. Their work is terrible in consequence for Human; but accords them their true status.

I hope that helps. I am not sure how many Aboriginal Australians are believing in this teaching; but I know of many, but whom have no external means of expressing it or relating what is known within Aboriginal Tradition back into this expression I am providing, which is basically Islamic rather than from Aboriginal antiquity.

wasalam

 

[Joe98]

I am an Australian but not an Aboriginal.

I only wish all the best for Aboriginal Australians.

Now that we have defined shaytan, what does this mean?

….only because I dance better than black shaytan, whom bear considerable resentment about being black, and bearing with racism, so as to feign that they are not shaytan.

How do you know black shaytan are resentful?

 

[starfortress]

I thought Australian Aborigines was animism,as well the malay aborigines belief.But they were definitely different.Recently i saw on tv in NetGeo or Discovery(not so sure)they do a research about early human genetics,how they spread to all over the globe and of course the aussie aborigines is one of the main subject.

Suprisingly they came to Australia by foot from their ancestors land in Africa,its being proved by a new discovery. Lot of genetics related to their ancestors were found along the Indian coast line.At the same time has rejected the famous theory,they directly travelling by the sea,from Africa to Australia.

However they still have to cross the sea when reaching the Sunda Shelf,now in Malaysia Peninsular coast line. During Glacial periods, the sea level falls, and great expanses of the Sunda Shelf are exposed as a marshy plain. The seas and bays that cover the Sunda Shelf are less than 100 m deep.And that was an advantage to make their journey easier.Today, the Sunda Shelf are invisible because its cover by water due to the melting of ice age process took place.

And i need to find more...:hiding: check these out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Human_Language_Families_%28wikicolors%29.png

 

[north_malaysian]

I thought Australian Aborigines was animism,as well the malay aborigines belief.But they were definitely different.Recently i saw on tv in NetGeo or Discovery(not so sure)they do a research about early human genetics,how they spread to all over the globe and of course the aussie aborigines is one of the main subject.

Suprisingly they came to Australia by foot from their ancestors land in Africa,its being proved by a new discovery. Lot of genetics related to their ancestors were found along the Indian coast line.At the same time has rejected the famous theory,they directly travelling by the sea,from Africa to Australia.

However they still have to cross the sea when reaching the Sunda Shelf,now in Malaysia Peninsular coast line. During Glacial periods, the sea level falls, and great expanses of the Sunda Shelf are exposed as a marshy plain. The seas and bays that cover the Sunda Shelf are less than 100 m deep.And that was an advantage to make their journey easier.Today, the Sunda Shelf are invisible because its cover by water due to the melting of ice age process took place.

And i need to find more...:hiding: check these out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Human_Language_Families_%28wikicolors%29.png

physically the Australian aborigines have similarities with "Negritos" in Malaysia, which I presumed have African ancestry.

 

[starfortress]

physically the Australian aborigines have similarities with "Negritos" in Malaysia, which I presumed have African ancestry.

Yeaa,but genetically could showed the other way...there are several wave and different route of migration were occured during the prehistoric period..the Negritos in other hand took a migration trip in later period than the Aussies Aborigines plus,if im not wrong.. they(Negritos) use a Pacific Ocean as a migration route,while the Aussies Aborigines took the opposite direction,using the land not the sea due to lack of knowledge in maritime.

There is no clear or accepted origin of the indigenous people of Australia. Although they migrated to Australia through Southeast Asia they are not demonstrably related to any known Asian or Polynesian population. There is evidence of genetic and linguistic interchange between Australians in the far north and the Austronesian peoples of modern-day New Guinea and the islands, but this may be the result of recent trade and intermarriage.

 

[Curaezipirid]

I am an Australian but not an Aboriginal.

I only wish all the best for Aboriginal Australians.

Now that we have defined shaytan, what does this mean?


How do you know black shaytan are resentful?

She broke my nose; well actually she tried to, and then an Aboriginal woman who was not a shaytan broke it for the shaytan who wanted to.

Their resentment towards me only seems to be caused by skin colour. They express it as though hating me because I am white. They have made accusations against me as though I am an oppressive white persons continuing cultural theft from them only because I know and respect Aboriginal culture. How I acquired my own cultural knowledge is completely within Traditional Aboriginal law, but they could get away with accusing me because I am white. However the basis of their hate of me is that I can comprehend what a shaytan is, and distinguish a shaytan from other folk. This is a group of black skin persons whom are inclined toward working aligned with white policing. They are often referred to as "with police" by many Aborigines.

glad to know you are an Aussie Joe98! (but an Irish Aussie or among ?)

wasalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

It is good to enquire as to the archaeology of Aborigines as a race. The oldest existing archaeological evidence of any Human observance of the funeral passage/death rites, is Australian.

Among Aboriginal Australians are those who believe their ancestors always were here; those who believe their ancestors were from far east Asia (One close friend believes His own original ancestry is connected to Korea); and those who believe their ancestors were from India. (often describing their ancestors as Pearl divers) But that is when Aborigines give external consideration to such matters which is rare. Usually we all just regard that we who are here now are who we are.

However I once heard on the radio there has been some genetic code testing done which proves that Australian Aborigines are the only race to contain the genetic codes of every other race within our race. I don't know what that means. Somebody else told me that the races of the world can be divided into seven distinct groups genetically, but I do not know what that means either. However I can surmise that there exist seven distinct and well established cultural patterns which have caused repeating of seven specific genetic traits. But I do not know.

wasalam

 

[robyn]

I am an Australian Aboriginal, it is our belief that we have always been here! We come from the land, are part of it and as such are connected to the area in which we come from. We did not walk here from Africa!

Robyn

 

[starfortress]

I am an Australian Aboriginal, it is our belief that we have always been here! We come from the land, are part of it and as such are connected to the area in which we come from. We did not walk here from Africa!

Robyn

Hi

Of course it was mentioned in that program when the American Genealogist raised the theory in many perspective or view abaout the Australian Aborigine originated.He also make an interview with the local Australian Aborigine Bushman,in order to get as many as possible of sources that would support his research about the early human history,and that(Australian Aborigine) guy had claimed exactly same as yours.When he heard that answer was came from the Bushman tribe itself.The Genealogist also respect and appreciate it.

Another thing i have to say,we are here to exchange and sharing our views about others people belief and culture,of course i knew nothing about yours belief and culture,so clashes of views will always happen. However i still respect what are you beliefe and what are you hold.

p/s Learning is acquiring knwoledge or ‘knowing a lot’.Learning process will never stop,untill the death come invite us.

 

[Joe98]

Curaezipirid, why do you call aboriginals "shayton"?

 

[Curaezipirid]

Joe98, I have not called "Aboriginals" shaytan. In fact I have built an arguement that the Aboriginal race and culture are still holding vast amounts of worth for Humanity; and that the problems which are manifesting in Aboriginal communities in the modern context are in connection with a minority group among all those with an Aboriginal identity whom are actually Shaytan and not Human.

The reason for being able to portray this is because I have established for my self a set of skills in determining whom is a Shaytan. Most people find such distinguishing difficult, and my own ability is difficult to portray without definint black magic. But it is important not to define black magic in any context in which it could be accidentally used by a person whom is not Muslim, and so has not any idea of what is wrong with black magic.

The reason it has become a task that I have attended to: that of delineating that there are a minority group of shaytan among Aboriginal persons; is mainly because Aboriginal Australians have developed a very poor reputation among many people of the different Religions which maintain Faith in One God; and that is because there are obvious signs of black magic at work in Aboriginal communities. (for example when children are not safe)

However I can portray that the social orientation of most black skin Australian Shaytan with an Aboriginal identity is within a self perception of their need for a black police force; so many black shaytan have been self identifying as doing non-Government police work. Shaytan are usually among the very militant folk in most communities. However, if I portray them in that light; they will surely all decide to become Peace activists, such is their way. Within Aboriginal culture their Dreaming is respected as Ant people; and within the social patterns of Ant people it is regarded that what ever an Ant person is expressing, their belief is the opposite. In fact there are quite alot of other Aboriginal Australians whom have adopted to their self that social patterning so as to cause that the real shaytans among us relax somewhat about being turned into Ants. That is the realisable fact. Many shaytan have portrayed Aboriginal cultural belief that between the grave and hereafter we will all exist in another biological form, that embodies fire; as though that belief is the black magic, when in fact the black magic at work in assaulting the Aboriginal community is that which is trying to prevent belief that we all become something less than Human after we die, and before the Hereafter.

I know it seems that I paint my self as an open target for accusations of racial discrimination as a white person whom portrays any black people negatively: however, the harser reality is that when we, as white people, provide positive discrimination for black people, as is legislated in Australia; it is that the positive discrimination must take place upon an equitable skill and intelligence basis, otherwise we are only setting up black people to fall.

For example: an Aboriginal community housing organisation was funded in Canberra in the mid 1990's without the organisation having met all the legal requirements for obtaining the funding; and the inevitable result was that the funding providers had to withdraw the funding. It is no surprise that the funding was given within a motivation of being afraid to be named as racist for not giving it: and neither is it a surprise then that those whom gave the funding opened the door wide to allegations of racism when they withdrew the funding.

There is a social standard that Humanity must meet to be accorded the title of a true believer, and shaytan are not likely to meet such. To my knowledge only One among all the Shaytan is ever accorded the status of being counted among those in the Churches of Revelations. If we say that we will not assess the black Aboriginal community by the same standards as we assess any mainstream white community; then we do them a diservice. Shaytan have in time proven that they are inclined even to believe in acts such as the rape of children as normal, and so it is wrong to let any Muslim believe that Aboriginal culture counts such persons as believers, or would ever award such persons any status. It is simply a misfortune that must be noted that there are both black and white skin shaytan within Aboriginal identities and ancestry, whom have been falsely portraying Traditional Aboriginal society and culture.

I hope that explains the situation somewhat better.

wasalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam,

I am glad that Robyn is attending to this thread also; especially since, as I tried to make clear at the outset, the cultural conditioning I am with is something of a hybrid between Muslim and Aboriginal. (my credibility is often best portrayed in the fact that as a white Australian I have managed to get out of the mental traps of modern white social conditioning)

But what I really want to tell here in this post is that we often need to bear with other folk asserting a miscomprehension about us only so as that we can comprehend what that miscomprehension is, and then correct it. Therefore it is that Aboriginal Australian are more than likely to be very quitely tolerant of being mistaken in most circumstances. What I like about Islam is that Islam neither conditions us to make any accusation of another person only because of a miscomprehension. We are always given the space to correct any false ideas in our mind, the could have been caused only by misinformation.

So the fact that I am likely to point out any faults that I know of, should not put any body off posting what they already had been informed. It can be good also to compare the difference between my responses and Robyn; and especially since my own education is within a different degree of Islam to that of many young Aboriginal Muslims, so Robyn might not be attuned to the realm in which Aboriginal understanding is more likely to be able to be equated with Muslim comprehension.

I am only making this commentary to expose that I am wanting that any discussion here can bear fruit of finding the real common ground between Islam and Traditional Aboriginal belief systems.

Here is one thing I noticed: most Muslims greet with Assalamalaikum; but to put the words around the other way Alaikumassalam, is of greater accord with Aboriginal culture.

mu'asalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

I am an Australian Aboriginal, it is our belief that we have always been here! We come from the land, are part of it and as such are connected to the area in which we come from. We did not walk here from Africa!

Robyn

I should add here a fact in respect of the base line belief Robyn expresses. But I am not certain how best to represent this within Muslim use of language. In Judaic heritage there is a distinction made between a Soul whom is so called: "Ancient of Day"; and a younger Soul, more likely to be accorded a status: "Lesser of Year". I am actually the latter.

Among Aboriginal Australians there is a higher proportion of that latter group than among any other race. This is a very significant fact in favour of our racial genetics. What it means is that more of us evolved in Spirit and more Souls have been formed, during a later period of the entire period of the existance of Humanity.

In Islam I know that Soul is regarded in all of us to be Alaqa: so still in embryonic form. Yet even to acquire such a state of existing as Alaqa it is unusual for the majority of the population to have formed Alaqa after the time when black magic entered the world; and that is the case among Australian Aborigines.

wasalam

 

[Silver Pearl]

:wasalamex

To ensure that the reply is not too long I have just quoted anything that I will address, anything else that hasn’t been quoted means I agree with. Or I see no point in dwelling on it as it is of little significance.

I apologise for the delay in reply and I'd like to thank starfortress and Joe for contributing to the thread. It is refreshing to have more people into the conversation, I was getting the impression that it was me and sister Curaepizid at each other lol kay:

In this I am adamant in disagreement. The most common cause of any lack of necessary knowledge in Humans is that shaytan are tricking.

Perhaps I was not clear in my stating on why I disagreed with you. Me not knowing about aboriginal culture has of little significance to shaytaan. The aim of shaytaan is to deceive; now sure enough some of the ill thoughts one conjures and speaks about is influenced by shaytaan. That I do not disagree with, nonetheless our lack of motivation to learn other people’s culture has nothing to do with shaytaan tricking us. He may make us lazy but when we blurt out ignorant comments such as that of the pope then you can’t blame shaytaan. There reaches a stage where we have to take responsibility for our own sins and errors. It is a human instinct to try and blame others rather than themselves but Allah (exalted and glorified be he) will not punish other souls for our sins. Why? Surely if shaytaan was the one always tricking us he should be the one punished. Nay, we all have duties and responsibilities. The shaytan’s job so to speak is to deceive and he carries out his job well it would seem and our job is to refrain from sinning. It is not shaytaan that provides or steals knowledge. What is necessary knowledge? I don’t want to delve into philosophical tangent but everyone’s perception differs on a topic such as this. It is a necessity to know that murder is wrong, that is an ethical issue but some amongst us don’t comprehend this so they lack any sense of necessary knowledge. In Islam those who are insane are not held accountable for their sins, so would you say those people were also the tool of shaytan’s trick?

Good point, my Arabic is lacking. Kafr of disbelieving is causal to kafir existing. That is the difficult fact of the matter. It is however a discussion belonging in an other thread.

I think I understand though I don’t know why you used ‘kafr’ at the beginning of the second sentence. It merely clouds the rest of the sentences that follow. You’re right, that is for another discussion. Kufr only exists because there are kafireen amongst us. If everyone is a believer then there is no disbelief that is carried out. Which would simply mean that there would be no test, and we'd be the dwellers of paradise. Not stuck in this reality that plunges so many into the realm of darkness and hatred.

Sorry but a sprout can not "re-incarnate", and neither can you or I. But also Aboriginal belief systems are far removed from those Asian belief systems in which a "rich way of life" is accessed by causing that other persons take to themselves the mental processes of non-belief, and you seem to be implying that Aboriginal culture is one of such cultural systems in which such is rife.

I never suggested that sprouts can be re-incarnated; I merely was playing on your side of the turf. I think you took my statement out of context. As for the rich way of life, it was not a pun so don’t take it as that way. It is rather naïve to suggest that whilst Asian culture is tainted the aboriginal is self-removed from such errors. Every culture falls into the same pitch. There is not a single culture out there that does not show some level of contradictions with Islam.

Perhaps the unanswered question is only "where is it that I am from before being this me I now am?"

I like that quote, is it yours?

since if we are a Human Soul then our Soul is immortal. Are you able to cause the full evolution of a Human Soul within your own physical body now in this modern age? Aborigines believe that the number of existing Human Souls is already counted. Were were you before being silver pearl? I was in a Kangaroo.

Allah knows every grain in the world yet alone soul, I was always Hanna (real name), I was never a creature of darkness and speed nor a slow restful being, nor were you ever a kangaroo, or so you think. There is no such basis for such thing in Islam. A human does not die so that its soul can be surpassed into that of another creature, whether it be as small as a single celled amoeba or as large as an elephant. If you're talking about how when as humans we eat say pastry that flour may be absorbed in the body and so that pastry becomes part of us then that I get. However, that pastry is oblivious to realism and it does not think that it has been manifested into a human. Metaphorically that may be ok to swallow but i'm trying to get away from thinking on a metaphorical track considering you stated that everything you post is meant literally.

I know this by being able to Dream within Kangaroo form.

There is not evidence for anything like that but simply what out mind deludes us with. Seeing through the eyes of other than yourself does not mean you were once that thing. There is no substantial evidence to back that up, both in scientific findings and the Qur’an thus it must be neglected as baseless.

This is the basis of the genetic difference I experience as an Aborigine.

However, you’re not an aborigine, like you remarked earlier. It is like me saying I’m Croatian just because I have taken on Croatian culture.
I feel that I’m missing a part of the puzzle. We should separate aboriginal culture with their belief system. A lot of the time I don’t know if you’re stating something as a belief or a practice done by the aboriginals.

Yet aligned with this is that I bear no assumption what so ever that I could cause my self to exist again in Human form.

Tell me does this not reinforce my point that you speak of re-incarnation?

My body will die eventually because of what it has been subject to.

Not really, we die because our destined time has surpassed. Healthy people die, fragile and deteriorating beings still roam around. It is Allah that gives life and causes death.

Then I will be rotting in the grave and eventually some of the molecules which now form my body will become part of another life form.
That is the cycle of life; it doesn’t mean that you’re now also the worm that feasted on you the previous day. For example what we eat becomes part of us but that sausage from the cow isn’t running through your veins as that cow. It is merely insignificant.
Only as Allah wills may I exist ever in any living form, and thus I can not believe in reincarnation since I know not what Allah's future will is for me. I only know that I will pass through a transition. In Aboriginal culture the transition that is a form of the fire of hell, and that can be comprehended as less than desirable by the teaching of reincarnation, and is that fact of existing within flora and/or fauna etc, is taught as a fact of life to bear with pride.

D’accord

May I apologise to you sister Silver Pearl that I experienced no distress what so ever in respect of any of your posts. That I have been in a bad mood bears no relevance to you. I must apologise also that this matter is one in which I might express that other Muslims have never before oriented to as you now discribe "any other Muslim would". I hope that any other Muslim who would could post here also.

Alhamdulillah. It is good now that there are more people posting in this thread. When I made that statement it is because Muslims adhere to the Quran and though there may be different rulings on certain jurisprudence we generally agree on most things thus it is only naturally that any Muslim would voice what I did. Perhaps our writing style would differ and how we express our thoughts may vary but the end result nonetheless can be expected to be similar if not the same.

The matter is of an immediate significance to Australian Aborigines because many wish to convert but are being put off converting to Islam because of Shaytan whom are already familiar with Aboriginal culture whom have been instructing Aborigines that we must never believe that we can turn into an animal. Yet for us the comprehension is inimical with Islamic teaching about the fire, and the passage through; in which each of us are given the choice that accords both our experiential knowledge and the fact of the ablity of our Soul.

D’accord, je comprehend.

We happen to be a group of persons whom have been already tempering ourselves to the fire long before Islam became among us; and so are very much more readily inclined to believe immediately in those aspects of Islamic teaching. Yet what is difficult is that over the past few hundred years; and there is peripheral evidence to suggest that such began from Asia before the invasion from England: we have experienced increasing numbers of shaytan whom we are in contact with and whom have been supposing to be able to use us to cause that they never need enter the fire.

Hmm…Shayateen are everywhere, increasing number of them just means that people’s imaan have decreased not because they decided to migrate from Asia, je ne suis pas.

My understanding is that many shaytan are able to disbelieve that they can be forced into the fire only because in all the world they have always been able to avoid Animist initiations. That is, for some reason they never become animals. Yet in Aboriginal they are recorded as able to be caused to exist as birds. Islam teaches that a form of green bird will exist in Jannah.

I am not aware of anywhere In the Quran where green birds are mentioned. As for Shayateen turning into other forms, I’ve mentioned this before and provided evidence. “The Messenger of Allah (may the peace and blessing of Allah be upon him) said: ‘The jinn are of three types: a types that has wings, and they fly through the air; a type that looks like snakes and dogs; and a type that stops for a rest then resumes its journey.” However bird is not mentioned above as you can see.

Also shaytan are not Jinn.

Sadly that is incorrect. Let me quote you the evidence which refutes your statement. And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies - Shayâtin (devils) among mankind and jinns, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception). If your Lord had so willed, they would not have done it, so leave them alone with their fabrications. (al-an’aam). This verse clearly indicates that shaytaan is a jinn. In addition: And (remember) when We said to the angels; "Prostrate to Adam." So they prostrated except iblis . He was one of the jinns; he disobeyed the Command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the wrong-doers. (18:50)

Here is the word of Allah, clearly stating that shayateenn are amongst the jinn.

This is an important part of belief. Iblis is a Jinn whom for a time existed in a form that we are able to comprehend as Satan or Shaytan; but He was redeemed in a relative sense, and is again now Iblis. Yet that form He existed in as Shaytan left a track of self-record that those Souls whom are named shaytan like to inhabit to inform themself. Often Souls whom are Shaytan, ..... to hold Shaytan into the fire when Judgement occurs.

There is no evidence for any of the above, if there is and I’m ignorant of it I seek Allah’s forgiveness and would like you to provide evidence for it.

Aboriginal culture is effected very greatly by the fact that we have always had Jinn whom we regard as leaders and respected the supernatural qualities of. It is NOW that among the Jinn are many whom are converting to Islam; and this is a part of why I even begun this thread. Because Jinn are leaders in Aboriginal society, in must be ascertained in what aspects Aboriginal culture needs to be immediately changed. Obviously we are already much changed and many are already in full Faith in Jesus.

I don’t understand how you could have jinn as your leaders, they are their own creatures and they don’t come into our world unless Allah wills so. This conception you seem to have is rooted from aboriginal culture and is not true in Islam (Allahu'3llim). There have always been Muslim jinn: Allah's Messenger javascript:ol('http://muttaqun.com/dictionary3.html#May+Allahs+peace+and+blessings+be+on+him');came out to his companions and recited Surah ar-Rahman (55) from the beginning to the end, but they remained silent. Thereupon he said: I recited this before the Jinn on the night of Jinn, and their response was better than that of yours. When I came to these words: `Then which of the favours of your Lord do you deny?' They said: Our Lord, there is nothing that we deny of Thy favour; to Thee is praise due.

Perhaps the whole equation will only eventually end with many Muslims becoming convinced that all Aborigines are Shaytan faking being Muslims.

A whole nation can not be Shayateen (plural), every nation has good and bad people and everyone is aware of this. No Muslim would be as ignorant enough to say that all aboriginals are Shayateen. For one to make such a generalization merely reflects their lack of understanding.

I have written elsewhere that we are very well educated in Traditional culture so as to enable self knowledge within which it is possible to seperate your own self caused Dreams from those Allah provides.

Dreams are of either two categories; they are either from Allah (exalted and glorified be he) or it is from shaytaan. If it is the latter on is to keep it to themselves while if it is a good dream one may share it with those whom they love. I don’t know whether dreams come from us as you state. I have no further knowledge on this topic.

My own experience validates time and time again that the difference is genetic.

Ones experience certainly does not make anything valid, if that had been the case then the use of graphology in occupations would be a valid method to use but large number of evidence refutes such claim.

Yet there are also many more Shaytan among the Muslims whom are emmigrated to Australia than among Muslims in other parts of the world.

This has no foundation what so ever, it undermines the whole point of being a Muslim. One who is in submission to the will of God while the opposite of that is a shaytaan. You could have stated that munafiqoon amongst Muslims may have emigrated but to say shaytaan is erroneous. Juxtaposition of the two certainly does not work, it invalidities the whole argument as there is nothing to suggest so. Rather the contrary.

Shaytan do not like to be known and so do not like Aborigines of Australia.

Do you have reference for this statement?

The nature of imparting culture is necessarily an embodiment of not being clear as to whether any matter is intended metaphorically or literally; but I will establish that my real experience is all I have reported upon, so it is best to believe in what I am writing literally.

Thank you for the clarity, very much appreciated .

If a Muslim wished not to be indoctrinated by my thread into any animist belief structure themself, then they need to accept my words literally as equitably as any persons wishing to be indoctrinated within Aboriginal culture to impart Islam need to accept the same words literally.

The issue of animism is alien to Islam unless you speak of the exorcism of jinn but that is usually very brief and they do not per long their stay to the extent of governing their existence.



As for the issue about performing hajj to a destination not to Mecca then you can not call it pilgrimage. If pilgrimage for a Muslim was designated anywhere Allah (exalted and glorified be he) would not have been specific as stating where hajj is to be performed.

But over all in response to Silver Pearl what I am needing to establish is that much of her posts are equanimical with the misinformation that has been spread throughout modern Australia about Traditionally Oriented Aboriginal culture.

I have not been fed misconception about aboriginal culture as I have never been taught about it. So me going into this discussion has put me at a great disadvantage. I reply to your remarks from that of a naïve child and all I can judge is from Islam’s point of view.

There even exist false dot paintings the promote such and are made by shaytans. Silver Pearl ironically best expresses this in the sentences in which she refutes believing that I have been "groomed as an animist". The fact is that my Father may not have borne in mind that he was "grooming" me into animist belief; but that is certainly what is happening in very many white Australian contexts.

I can not speak about your household and what happens behind closed doors. I was merely establishing that I did not delve into this discussion with pre-conception about you. It would not be my place to be disrespectful.

Fee amanillah

 

[Curaezipirid]

We will have to agree to disagree since I am certain both in my racial biology being an Aborigine distincly from culturally also being in portion aligned with Aboriginal belief; and I am entirely unable in all science to fail to regard that my body can experience even that pain that is of a Kangaroo, only when in a posture that a Kangaroo can adopt. Perhaps it can be regarded by you Silver Pearl that Aborigines all experience somatic halluncinations of turning into actual animals. These experiences are irrefutable and of real physical sensation in every one of the physical bodies neuro-receptors. Such experiences are a true deterrent to behaving like an animal, but award social status. Status is acquired by being prepared to accept such an experience in future without causing by sin.

This is the very matter that I was banned from Muslim Village forums in consequence of highlighting. What I am stating is that Australian Aborigines will be able to become Muslim, and in a united Ummah, not until other Muslims accept that our variety of Animism is: biologically irrefutable and immutable; not at all in connection with the various reincarnation doctrines.

It is best to regard the teaching only in the physical sense. We believe that we are made of molecules which once existed in other life forms; and that the molecules we are made of will return to Earth and exist again in future in different life forms.

I am in absolutely no intention in accusing Silver Pearl of misinterpreting my commentary since this matter is a matter of far larger and more sever misinterpretations in many contexts; but I do care to ensure that my comments are not taken out of context and caused to seem to portray any sort of reincarnation doctrine. wasalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

:wasalamex



I can not speak about your household and what happens behind closed doors. I was merely establishing that I did not delve into this discussion with pre-conception about you. It would not be my place to be disrespectful.

Fee amanillah

May I only report that ever part of "grooming" me to belief in the flora and fauna of Australia as valid life and of Human considerations, never occured by behind any closed doors but rather in public, at schools and nature parks and in other public settings in which we could observe wildlife.

wasalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

[/COLOR]The issue of animism is alien to Islam unless you speak of the exorcism of jinn but that is usually very brief and they do not per long their stay to the extent of governing their existence.

Could you please provide me with some empirical verification of this Muslim practise? This sentence reads to me with comprehension that a Traditional Aboriginal initiation is exactly the same thing as "the exorcism of jinn". In the first instance it is always a brief experience that of being first caused to accept an Aboriginality of Faith. It is actually precisely equivalent to an exorcism, but it accords a secret known only to Jinn.

What is meant by "per long their stay to the extent of governing their existence" ? Is it that you are expressing that Jinn like to get the exorcisms over and done with as briefly as possible since the longer duration of exorcism, the longer the Jinn need bear animal form?

That is factually precise.

The difference then is that in such an exorcism the Jinn are not revealing much; while in an Aboriginal initiation the exact same process is being entered into, but within certain knowledge of all parties to a far higher degree.

I must look this matter up. Perhaps islamonline will be able to inform me since I have found precise data there before about Jinn.

Really when you think about it; since Jinn are to begin with all Animist; why would conversion to Islam take place if it only meant doing more exorcisms without any policing component of the results. Shaytan so often mimic Jinn and I am sure that is why the external regard for these practises is poor; as though a Jinn could force such upon any person. Shaytan try to but fail to obtain any benefit for themself at all times and in all conditions. Jinn take no benefit in exorcisms in Islam. There is a history in which among Aboriginal Australians some Jinn, and then also some Men took benefits in such, but that is only possible temporarily and only by a Judaic accounting system, and in Islam there is no benefit possible for Jinn. That is if you except the benefit to all Men of living in a law abiding society. Yet in Allah alone was this work ever done. Even my father who is habituated to accept favour in performing such exorcisms has repeatedly proven to himself that there is no eventual benefit in Islam. The story of Bhyame's initation can be taken also in a reading of Bhyame having tried and failed to account the situation to his own benefit in this telling. But that the whole of Rosicrucianism is accounting themselves against Bhyame and a daughter who fits that role in the story of being the woman left behind with all the children; I should mention also as the reason I am able to state that Silver Pearl argues within a shaytan's account of false accusations against Australian Aborigines. It is not a personal mention but that Rosicrucianism accords the whole population with any financial dealings with them as wrong to account any worth in the reality of Aboriginality and especially in conjunction with mention of Bhyame, who is factually a Jinn.

Am I tired of my self by now!

(American Animist tradition places the signal of having been used to exorcise at the end of any commentary while Australian places such signatures at the commencement of dialogue)

wasalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

alaikumassalam

I just looked through threads in LI about Jinn exorcisms and they are mainly referring to need to be exorcised of a bad non-Muslim Jinn. I should clarify what I took that Silver Pearl was meaning by that I quoted from her. A good Jinn is most adept at exorcising any person of the influence of a bad Jinn. Australian Jinn frequently are engaged in exorcising the Indigenous population of the effects of shayan/and all bad jinn or ifrit. This work is so specialised and well regarded that it is accorded the status of an initiation, and is accompanied by many Religious teachings in Prayer etc. But I guess Silver Pearl could have been trying to write that she experienced brief possession by a bad Jinn and needed to be exorcised. Usually a good Jinn, like any shaman, will possess a person and have a fight with the bad Jinn whom is possessing them. The person experiencing it manifests only as much consciousness of what is occuring as is their independent will. Then also by will they are allocated thier alone only willing share of payments for the expense to the health of the good Jinn. Such payment might be accepting the fire of existing in an animal, but only within will of Allah and thus by Soul. In most cultures persons are caused to forget this fact. In Aboriginal culture we are stimulated to sustain complete recollection.

wasalam