What is the belief of the Australian Aborigines?

[starfortress]

May i know,what is the main religion for the Australian Aborigines?

 

[Curaezipirid]

There is disunity in definition. Among us are persons whom believe Animism should be accounted as a Religion. All Aborigines, without exception have Animist belief. No person is allowed to try to portray themself as an Aboriginal person without sustaining full belief that we will become within an animal in the passage through fire, before hereafter.

Also Christianity is prevalent since the nineteen fifties. There are few identifying as Muslim; yet among Christians are all accessing Shari'ra accountiblity. Such is referred to as "True Law" in translations from Aboriginal languages in to English.

That is the answer to that question so I will make it a discreet post; but another matter is raised in my mind also, and I will post about it next.

wasalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

I thought of a new perspective from which to describe Australian variety of Animism.

Among my considerations is that there could be found evidence that both Hinduism and Buddhism have not adhered to any reincarnation doctrine for the whole of the history of those Religions, and that the concept of reincarnation has only been around since Jesus resurrected in one single and the only actual true reincarnation that has ever been here at Earth. This is a matter of my own education. That reincarnation has become altered in modern meaning to imply any and every attempt to carry forward any aspect of a persons self that they like having about them, including appearance, is a fact that causes that many older belief systems are readily misinterpreted as though attempts to cause that people are not taking with them to the grave their own full accountiblity in Allah.

I believe that there are very many Indigenous belief systems which have long held that we might become alive in an animal body between the grave and hereafter. Yet very very many of such belief systems have been picked up on by persons wanting to attempt to manifest no accountiblity in Allah; and then described wrongly. Basically only non-believers could ever even bear trying to avoid being accounted in Allah. Believers tend to fear that if we are not accepting Allah we will suffer more in the long run; in every belief system, even if it is not within a monotheist heritage. Monotheism is the only way to ensure that such beliefs are able to be accessible to all men; and in that most Indigenous belief systems have always readily accepted monotheist teaching.

In this time we are living in what is occuring within very many belief systems in which Animism was a part, is that persons are being able to assess that almost ever one in any community is becomming within the group whom become only able to exist within an animal body as passage through fire. In some of those belief systems the belief in becoming an animal for a while was long accompanied with various certainties about the means of preserving Human worth. Islam is a Religion full of teaching about such means. Every teaching about how to accord that a person is saved is such. Yet what is happening within Indigenous belief systems is that many persons are worried about who will be left around to preserve Human worth while so many of us are undertaking the passage through fire all at the same time. So in that condition have Indigenous Animist belief systems become unnecessarily and sadly persuaded to orient their faith with a Buddhist thought structure in which it was regarded only as a punishment to need to live within an animal. Modern Buddhism that is, which is different from the ancient tradition in which those big statues which were blown up in Afganistan originally were built.

So within the context of the perspective of this specific post, what it is that Australian Aborigines belief's provide to us all is now only that clear certainty that our Human worth can survive without any need to worry about what might be our true worth in Allah. We could all die and only manifest living within an animal, and ultimately loose no Human integrity. Eventually we could, as Human Souls, re-evolve a distinctly Human species, if it came to a situation of us all passing through the fire at the same time.

Aborigines of Australia specifically are resounding in certainty that the grave is far worse than existing in animal form. Even that existing in animal form can lessen the work in the grave, now and for the Human species in the longer term. The teaching is simply that there is no need to manifest certainty of wherein might exist those parts of your own Human worth that are saved from the fire. The longevity of Human merits earned and which accord ourself a part that is saved, is within what we each are magnetic with in the nature of our Human Spirit. Traces of what is saved might exist in many various and changing forms of physical matter and also finer density matter; while we each endure the fire. Believe it or not, what the actual Aboriginal Australian experience has long before Islam been, is that of earning merit in Allah of constant recollections of Human worth of what the experience of fire in animal form is. That is like saying that we are a race of Scientists whom have been testing the parameters of the Human spirit for enduring fire.

It is also the case that all the many Indigenous persons around the world, whom can not prevent themselves from sustaining an Animist belief, but have been wrongly informed by false teaching of reincarnation and Buddhism, could be enabled to adhere to Islam through learning about Aboriginal Australian's belief system.

But right now that is all I want to tell about since my own self identify is needing to be more resoundingly aligning with modern Islam during Ramadan. It might be a full generation required in time before Muslims as a united Ummah are able to reconcile with Animist varieties of Islam.

mu'asalam

 

[starfortress]

In my opinion,due to the very long isolation from other world populations and civilizations has shaped the Australian Aborigines to emerged and evolved to something different form of culture,beliefe also thinking.And of course the Aussies Aborigines have something to share with us.

and I am entirely unable in all science to fail to regard that my body can experience even that pain that is of a Kangaroo

That was a solid example,it show a big difference from other human culture.I wonder,what will happen to the Australian Aborigines which born and raised outside Australia continental and never have any contact with the aborigines culture.Are they face the same experience as yours?And is there any of the Aborigines belief that cotradict or could lead to violate the Islamic laws?

Im sorry,if you feel uncomfortable with the way im asking you the question,im not so fluent in English,so i dont know any better words than this. PEACE

 

[robyn]

Curaezipirid,

As an Aboriginal woman I find it difficult to understand how you can live both cultures? I'm am also curious as to which Aboriginal community you come from and your connections to to it? I have quite a few connections throughout Australia and would seriously like to know not only your connections, but where/how and from whom you get the infornmation you place here?????

 

[Curaezipirid]

Alaikumassalam Robyn,

Best to learn better about Islam before asserting that there is no ablity to Reconcile Muslim culture with Traditional Aboriginal way. I am here in this thread arguing with Silver Pearl as another Muslim person above being an Aborigine.

You know that film ten canoes, there is mention in it, within the oral history of top end, of the original arrival in Australia of Shari'a.

Aborigines are as misinformed about Islam as are Muslims about Aboriginality.

The questions that you ask should be answered well enough in the first post of the thread. If that is not enough the ask.

I am living now in Brisbane; but am not particularly engaged with the local community largely because of a misconstruction of my writing work by Jackie Huggins, whom I sent some of my writing to for consultation. She wrote back. However all the blacks who sleep in the city know me and they know about my family court case. There is another thread in the cyber counselling forum of Load Islam called "the importance of being real" which tells another side of my story that could help you to orient yourself to who I am.

I am friends here with Samuel Saunders and also John Nawakie. Sam is from Redcliff and John from Thursday Island. The old stolen generations counsellor knew me also but I am not attending the health centre any more and only ever was once able to get to a link up gathering. Most black fellas, unless they know me well, take me for one of those white folk who claim Aboriginal ancestry for some absurdly perceived advantage. But that is comprehensible since I found my self landing at one point among a bunch of occultists whose library I needed to use; and so picked up a fair bit of thier dirt. Taking the situation like a black person would in Australia, as a white person, sort of accords just lying back and taking being portrayed as some evil *****. So generally my reputation is as bad as anybody would expect the reputation of an outspoken white in black business to be.

wasalam

 

[Silver Pearl]

:wasalamext

How are you sister? I have not spoken to you for a long period. I hope you're in good health and strong imaan

We will have to agree to disagree since I am certain both in my racial biology being an Aborigine distincly from culturally also being in portion aligned with Aboriginal belief; and I am entirely unable in all science to fail to regard that my body can experience even that pain that is of a Kangaroo, only when in a posture that a Kangaroo can adopt. Perhaps it can be regarded by you Silver Pearl that Aborigines all experience somatic halluncinations of turning into actual animals.

I never implied that all aboriginals experience hallucination of morphing into animals. Sometimes we try and perceive the world through a pane of fantasy and our body give us a rush of overwhelming feelings that we can not explain. There was a period of time in my life where I was engulfed in writing fantastical stories. I used to put a lot of thinking into it and sometimes I’d day dream through the plots to perfect any errors. At times I’d have to look through the eyes of a killer, or the eyes of mystical creatures to fully grasp plotline I had created. Now this in no means validate my conclusion that I have been a killer (god forbid) or a mystical creature. Our mind is an incredible thing subhanallah and no one can deny this truth. However, not every sense we summon is real. Please don’t feel as though I’m trying to strip your belief system, rather I’m trying to understand this from a logical perspective. Since you have stated that I should not read through your post from a metaphorical sense I’m finding it that much harder to comprehend all these concepts which is alien to Islam, my own belief system. Please understand where I am coming from and I truly hope that we can put our insignificant differences aside and utter under the banner of tawheed.

These experiences are irrefutable and of real physical sensation in every one of the physical bodies neuro-receptors. Such experiences are a true deterrent to behaving like an animal, but award social status. Status is acquired by being prepared to accept such an experience in future without causing by sin.

I have not come across any scientific commentary to support this but then again I am not exactly a scientist. Do you happen to have a link to support your comments as I’d love to read about it? It sounds interesting.

This is the very matter that I was banned from Muslim Village forums in consequence of highlighting. What I am stating is that Australian Aborigines will be able to become Muslim, and in a united Ummah, not until other Muslims accept that our variety of Animism is: biologically irrefutable and immutable; not at all in connection with the various reincarnation doctrines.

Inshallah you will not be shunned here for teaching us something about aboriginal culture. You must try and understand matters from the eyes of Muslims. Majority of us are alien to aboriginal culture and as you have shown there is a lot of conflicting subjects between Islam and aboriginal belief system. I can not state why you may have been banned as I do not hold knowledge on it but I presume it was not a personal vendetta that resulted in your ban. Wa Allahu’3llim.

It is best to regard the teaching only in the physical sense. We believe that we are made of molecules which once existed in other life forms; and that the molecules we are made of will return to Earth and exist again in future in different life forms.

That I concur with, ‘you are what you eat’ sort of sense.

I am in absolutely no intention in accusing Silver Pearl of misinterpreting my commentary since this matter is a matter of far larger and more sever misinterpretations in many contexts; but I do care to ensure that my comments are not taken out of context and caused to seem to portray any sort of reincarnation doctrine.

Perhaps I am being too analytic with your posts; the problem is certainly from my part and my lack of understanding in the aboriginal belief. Nonetheless my replies are in no means to nit pick your culture but like I have stated several times on this thread I’m merely trying to shed some light on Islam’s stance on some of the subjects you have discussed.

Could you please provide me with some empirical verification of this Muslim practise? This sentence reads to me with comprehension that a Traditional Aboriginal initiation is exactly the same thing as "the exorcism of jinn". In the first instance it is always a brief experience that of being first caused to accept an Aboriginality of Faith. It is actually precisely equivalent to an exorcism, but it accords a secret known only to Jinn.

Exorcism is casting out evil spirits by prayers that I am guessing we agree on at least. A person possessed by jinn is certainly not in the sane category. Some people become insane but the person is in no state to be governed by the jinn, hence insanity. It could be that we have a different interpretation of the term governing. Jinn couldn’t control say a state while in the body of a human. That is something we only seem to ever witness on television for the sheer sake of our amusement.

Wa allahu’3llim.

 

[Curaezipirid]

Assalamu Alaikum Silver Pearl and hello to you sister also,

First I should start at the last part of your post only in reminding that of Jinn a number of things are taught. One portion of the total comprehension is that the shaytan confuse themselves with too often and so a possession could be only the accident of what a shaytan is enduring; but in that the worst for all parties concerned. Another portion of the total comprehension of the Jinn is that Jinn are exorcists and are at this time forgiving men and lesser beings huge quantities of the self that will pave the passage of the fire and let out only whom is accounted for there in full. Qur'an refers directly to this fact. Then there is also Surah about The Jinn defining that they are converted to Islam. Therein pointing to the fact that in converting to Islam they themself will not be any able longer to manifest dangerously possessing others.

These Muslim teachings accord with Aboriginal culture. But in Aboriginal culture, from before contact with Islam, there is not the very clearly distinguished note that different Souls are different by degree of eventual evolution possible. Islam alone provide.

I agree whole heartedly that it is time to put our differences aside within a tawheed which we can both reconcile. Of the seven I am informed of, it is that one which sounds more "u" sounds in, is the one which accomodates my own comprehension better than others, according to where I am born.

Also I should tell that there has not been mirco-biological studies of Aboriginality, but the future may tell about what is our very real experience. Even a shaytan may find themself, an Aborigine, being caused to carry far more of their self comprehension at the density of physical body than among other races. However, I want here only to point to the fact that there may be studies among persons with orange/red hair already existant. There are already many and increasing numbers of Aborigines with red hair genetic, and it carries a similar surprising genetic difference. There are many shaytan with red hair and that is what accords the reputation to a certain degree. But the most obvious fact of red hair is that there exists a biological built in function of the internal experience of wearing Hijab. Not quite that red hair causes that we manifest growing a veil; but truly that red hair is a sign of an internal permanence of acceptance of the reality of affording Hijab by need. This may be a fact that is closer to being at your disposal for study. But access a knowable as adult population to learn about this from.

Then there might open a window of available learning about what exactly is the biological difference of Aboriginality. It is certainly not something that can be exchanged through words alone; that is, unless the words are most correctly comprehended.

In that fact of how my writing could impact upon another person; it is right that you have been very analytical. The passages need to be seperated into small parts, so to make no reason, to ensure that any Muslim not willing to learn about Aboriginality experientially can read this thread without such being imposed upon them subconsciously. That is the good thing about an internet forum as an avenue for teaching.


wasaalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

Assalamu Alaikum

now I am back in this thread having remembered a significant aspect of culture that I was not reporting upon; perhaps because it is altogether too familiar, even when not in adherence

That is the attitude to food. There are very tight regulations in Tradition Aboriginal communities around whom can eat how much of what food from whom.

Also, and very importantly: all flora and fauna is scientifically differentiated into different groups that align with the social groups that people are divided into; and this accords what sort of foods may be eated. The principal being not to eat your self or your own mother. But to eat your father.

This is accomplished by not eating foodstuffs with the same mitochondrial DNA patterns in the Major Histo-compatibility Complex molecules on the surface of cells, such such reduces the total resistance to disease. It is obvious the most of the problem in Aboriginal health at this time is due to having been given (often in years past as wages; and in being prevented from Traditional Hunting and Gathering by open violence) only wheat flour, sugar, tea, and alcohol to consume. Apart from that the sort of diseases prevalent like: diabetes; arthritis; too early senility; . . . . . show a mass resistence to letting the fact of now very many immigrant shaytan (arrived under Australian foreign policies such as the 'white Australia' policy and modern replications without such racist naming) cause diseases of mental ablity. That is, our racial genetic tends towards sustaining health in Spirit above health of body; and this fact is born out by the nature of the diseases that the total Aboriginal population (black and white - and as a determining fact of defining who is and is not of the true racial origin) is bearing with.

However that stated the knowledge systems by which a recovery can manifest are being truly sustained, as I have described. For example; I could my self learn by sitting in a modern library at the Australian Institue of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Studies; that my own physical health is best cared for to not eat any cow products and other such red meat herd animal products like kangaroo; and neither wheat. Not for the usual reasons, but because my own living story adheres to needing to know what is not of causation by these food stuffs.

That is all. wasalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

Assalamu Alaikum

now today another aspect of Aboriginal culture returned into the fore of my mind; I had thought to post about earlier but a shaytan had been preventing, so my apology for that

This is an aspect of culture that needs illustrating so I will use one of the "bush mechanic" short documentaries made by the Central Australian Aboriginal Media Association (Caama).

First I will just tell. In Aboriginal culture tradition it is believed that no event which is negative in consequence takes place short of fault being able to be attributed to an individual or set of persons. That is, every death is regarded as being somebodies fault. But also we are ill inclined to blame anybody, but will always seek who was at fault. Anthropologists often comment upon this fact by wondering why a clearly intelligent race had no cultural place for either death or birth (or marital relations) by "natural" causes, and only accord supernatural causes to all birth death and marriage. The anthropologists are so daft. Aboriginal way is better. Not much ever is discussed in terms other than of description of the material world; except for birth death marriage and initiation. Our way is sensible, and that anthropologists were at least good to often note the fact of this distinct cultural difference. Obviously it is always unclear as to whether black magic is perceived as the cause of these supernatural events or only Prayer in Allah. I guess it is also a part of our culture to leave that open to the perception of others.

The story to illustrate is from one of six films depicting how skilled remotely located perons, of traditional hunter gatherer upbringing, have become as car mechanics in places where there are no means of acquiring new spare parts. The films are good and funny.

The one I want to tell about has some men whom have made a rock band. They are due to travel through the desert to another place to give a concert. This setting gives the film an inherent humour. The men rarely take themselves very seriously in the film. But after working to fix an old car in a wreckers yard, the car carks in on route in the desert. The route is a road of red sand through the spinifex. That is to say, all the visual indiciations are that another car may not pass that way for days. So when the car breaks down the whole mood shifts. Mostly what happens is that everybody sits around and nobody does anything. Nobody even tries to look to see what is wrong. The discuss what might have gone wrong. They can not attribute it to any specific person whom could have been at fault in their internal regard toward the motor car being causal to the mechanical breakdown. So they sit around until the wrongdoer realises his error. They get hungry. They eat. Then one person owns up that it could have been . . . . well, that it could have been what ever it was that actually fixed the car. It turned out to be a suspension problem because the car was so heavily weighed down.

Stories like that one are how we learn culture. It is in the daily observance of all Aboriginal children in traditional communities that nothing good can happen until one person at least accepts responsiblity for the ill that already exists. So perhaps we are just less afraid of being regarded as faulted because we are more readily able to comprehend that a positive result requires a negative past. Perhaps even this is why our whole race at times falls into ill repute; as though we are all as bad as the worst among us whom claim that reputation of the best of us. But what else could we manifest in this time than the worst of all persons?

I must add that I believe that a large portion of the cultural strength we have sustained against the worst onslaughts of efforts to demolish our culture and families, is simply because we are in the Ummah with living memory of never having needed any money to be well feed.

Wasalam

 

[Curaezipirid]

Good Grief I am not very good at a dialogue am I?

(but is it that I am not closing the circle or not good at the detail?)

However, I am back again in this thread after having been considering other posts I have made in the last twenty four hours and I have realised that there is a specific story that can be the right part of the Dreamtime mythology for contextualising the media article mentioned in another thread about some work by Dr Ameer Ali. So I thought to put this story in this thread rather than post it in the other thread; especially as it is a difficult conceptual association.

This is a story that is a point of reference for the very immediate Australian collective subconcious in the realm of what is surfacing as potential Jihad material.

Bhyame had two wives. This is a story about his wives. It is set after the first initiation. It involves a character who never even bothered to turn up to get initiated.

That was a crocodile bloke. The Crocodile who stole Bhyame's wives. The full tale is considerably horrific. The Crocodile took them down under the river and raped them repeatedly. I shall not tell it all here.

Eventually Bhyame got worried about their longer than usual absence. He went to look for them. He caught that crocodile whom by then had completely eaten them up. (like little red riding hood and her grandmother but two wives of the hunter) (Paul Hogan, the Australian comedian, does a good narration of Peter and the Wolf also - my mum told be I had better have oboe lessons in that reflection)

But old Bhyame cut open that Crocodiles belly and rescued his wives, by which time of course we are quite dead.

However there is a perfect solution to deadness: He puts us lying dead on top of an Ants nest. We are revived.

Its almost the same as in the Enki and Innana Mythology; but not quite, for certain.

Meanwhile that big darn *******y croc went to its watery grave wherein its skeleton turned to a fossil made of opal.

Now the full picture manifests that there exists still today an opalised crocodile jaw bone: and there is somewhat of a hunt underway for its whereabouts. I know a bloke who told me that it was in his family awhile; but he also told me that he: "put it to work in the prisons". However, I believe that it now is in the hands of police. The Australian police are a nasty pack of unpoliced rascals. But as to the real whereabouts of the opalised crocodile jaw bone: who could tell except for the progenitor of its existance, who is also a knowable character . . .

There has been a sort of Chinese battle of power control going on in the defining of who is whom among all the characters in this mythology: that is, as well as to the actual dispute of the story. (or is that the actual?)

I dunno (by my Hijab is sound so any images of me in these stories are somebody else! . . . except, . . . what , it

wasalam

 

[Silver Pearl]

Wa alaykum salam warahmatullah sister

It is such a shame that this thread has been allowed to die so soon after it seemed to be getting somewhere. Alas! we can't have it all. My apologies for also neglecting this thread.

I hope you're in good health and in strong Imaan since last conversed.

First I should start at the last part of your post only in reminding that of Jinn a number of things are taught. One portion of the total comprehension is that the shaytan confuse themselves with too often and so a possession could be only the accident of what a shaytan is enduring; but in that the worst for all parties concerned. Another portion of the total comprehension of the Jinn is that Jinn are exorcists and are at this time forgiving men and lesser beings huge quantities of the self that will pave the passage of the fire and let out only whom is accounted for there in full. Qur'an refers directly to this fact. Then there is also Surah about The Jinn defining that they are converted to Islam. Therein pointing to the fact that in converting to Islam they themself will not be any able longer to manifest dangerously possessing others.

I can not say I quite comprehend with all that you mentioned above and to agree or disagree would be stupidious on my behalf. However, I reside with your last two sentences. I believe the verse in question here is: 'And of us some are Muslims..." (Al-Jinn:14). I find the matter of questioning about Jinn both intriguing due to my thirst for knowledge but also somewhat fearful at times. There are reasons why Allah conceals certain things from us and although my curiosity may take the better of me I realise I should not question what was left hidden from our eyes and what we cannot grasp.

These Muslim teachings accord with Aboriginal culture. But in Aboriginal culture, from before contact with Islam, there is not the very clearly distinguished note that different Souls are different by degree of eventual evolution possible. Islam alone provide.

I presume that Islam has always had some contact with aboriginal culture as Islam has existed from the beginning. Contradicting this would be denying that the first Man and Woman (Adam and Eve) were believers and those who repented for their sins. Due to this and my understanding of Islam I reside with the idea that aboriginal culture would initially have had some contact with Islam though we may not be aware of it. Allah states:
And for every nation, there is a Messenger; when their Messenger comes, the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (Yunus:47)

And verily, We have sent among every nation a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah)." Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth). (An-naml:36)

Also I should tell that there has not been mirco-biological studies of Aboriginality, but the future may tell about what is our very real experience.

I don't understand what you mean by this. Could you clarify it further please? Sorry for the burden sister

Even a shaytan may find themself, an Aborigine, being caused to carry far more of their self comprehension at the density of physical body than among other races.

This is very Alien to me, never came across such thing in Islam, so I'm assuming it is something from the aboriginal culture and has no relevance to Islam, correct me if i'm mistaken for I'm merely a talibah.

However, I want here only to point to the fact that there may be studies among persons with orange/red hair already existant. There are already many and increasing numbers of Aborigines with red hair genetic, and it carries a similar surprising genetic difference. There are many shaytan with red hair and that is what accords the reputation to a certain degree. But the most obvious fact of red hair is that there exists a biological built in function of the internal experience of wearing Hijab. Not quite that red hair causes that we manifest growing a veil; but truly that red hair is a sign of an internal permanence of acceptance of the reality of affording Hijab by need. This may be a fact that is closer to being at your disposal for study. But access a knowable as adult population to learn about this from.

Shaytaan may be from the human race and also Jinn, however there is nothing suggesting that a shaytaan will only manfest into someone who has red hair. That implies that red haired people are to be avoided as no one wants to befriend the devil for the sheer sake of amusement or for any other reason for that matter.

If one conceals themselves with the hijaab (be aware that the headscarf is addressed as Khimaar whilst hijaab is a general term which is in reference to the Islamic dress code instructed in the Shari'ah) then surely they would be a munafiq (hyprocrite) rather than a shaytaan whom is a kufaar.

Then there might open a window of available learning about what exactly is the biological difference of Aboriginality. It is certainly not something that can be exchanged through words alone; that is, unless the words are most correctly comprehended.

I'm sure it can be understood with words and Sorry to burden you with further clarities constantly.

In that fact of how my writing could impact upon another person; it is right that you have been very analytical. The passages need to be seperated into small parts, so to make no reason, to ensure that any Muslim not willing to learn about Aboriginality experientially can read this thread without such being imposed upon them subconsciously. That is the good thing about an internet forum as an avenue for teaching.

Yeah I have noticed that I'm rather analytical of this subject, I'm trying to grasp the issue without considering everything you mention as merely metaphorical and at most of the times I find it very hard. If I take it literally then there is a confusion on whether what you're stating is from the pool of Islam or rather of aboriginal culture and you have informed me not to look at your examples and posts as metaphorical.


As you state 'Waram'

 

[Curaezipirid]

Waram,

It is a little difficult for me to be certain what is my best response to the new material from Silver Pearl. Much of that I have read from I have wanted to post a new threshold of my own detail from our Aboriginal culture within which to refute. But somehow I suspect that most persons whom read the whole are better off only to go back to what I originally wrote to gauge for themself since I believe that the answers are in the original material.

However I am aware that my language can be difficult so if there are others whom have any question relating to the presentation of a refutation of Aboriginal belief by Silver Pearl then please ask and I can work toward further clarity in expression of the real belief.

Here though I would like to make a clear point about the very end parts of what Silver Pearl has been posting. The fact is that Shaytan are not Kafir. A Kafir is a person without any Soul. Shaytan are Shaytan Soul manifesting within Human form, but when thier true form is rather of insects and birds. Jinn are Jinn Soul whom are able to manifest in a variety of forms by nature of a fire Soul. Angels manifest in specific known forms also and also can adopt the form of a Human. Humans are clearly Human; but could we perhaps comprehend that a Human can exist in forms other than the natural inclination also. The overall understanding is that such things need to occur to make that the world is balanced. While ever Shaytan are existing in Human form, then there will be Humans whom need to exist in other form also, by cause of having been tricked that Shaytan are Human. Most of the Jinn can handle the Shaytan somewhat better than Humans are able. So that is why Jinn provide the methodology of exorcism to Humanity.

One very significant aspect of the whole of the manfiestation of any belief structure known as Animist is that the Jinn have taught Men to exorcise through the methodology of Shaman.

I saw a book in a bookshop the other day in which there is an Indigenous American woman quoted saying that Her Grandfather has mind of fire. Clearly Her Grandfather is either a Jinn or a Man accepting being possessed by a good Jinn in order to help Him perform exorcisms well.

The real definition of what a kafir/Kufaar is relates importantly to the origian need of there being Animist belief. Let me try to explain through the work of Shaman.

A Shaman is brought an ill person. The Shaman has in mind that the person is most possibly ill because of an act of kafr. The Shaman utilises the strength of a good Jinn in "entering the mind" of the ill person. The techinique of this here sounds very non-sensical, but telling the truth of how such can be done would not be right in this context. But it is really not so difficult. It is the same work that an Indian Guru, if he is the real thing, can help through; and is also known as the Science of Saint Mathew. The Shaman thereby, much in the same way even as any Imam can, will learn about what is in the mind of the ill person. The Shaman's work is like the Imam's in that he must detect what of all the matter passing through an ill persons mind is that actual kafr causing illness. Then the Shaman either "magically" removes the kafr; or, as is the reality, provides the ill person with strong mental associations between that specific kafr and a specific life form of the natural environment. It may be that eating a certain meat or smelling a certain plant could have been causal to the kafr in the first place; so associating the kafr with that life form lets the ill person know that the kafr BELONGS within that life form and not within a Human form. However the consequence of such is that upon the death of the ill person the Human Soul can only thereafter commence existing for a time within that exact life form. Thereby the Human Soul meets its account in Allah.

Yet the best aspect of the whole system is that it prevents worse happening through any act of kafr.

We can know that all kafr happen by overly idenfying with the world that is ill, and that we are essentially not the cause, but will need to suffer the consequence so as to recover from existing in an ill world.

If we fail to notice a kafr as a kafr, and have no Shaman or Imam or Guru etc whom is themself in Allah and able to help us to equate the kafr with a part of our immediate environment, rather than of our own true essential self; (yet there in a part of the environment which we have adopted as our own in Allah) then we could have been tempted to engage in shirk in respect of having committed kafr. What happens then is that rather than the act of kafr causing that we need exist in another form that is not Human, between the grave and the real hereafter, it can manifest that in the grave a person could have imagined that they can just be reincarnated or some other such non-sense. Then a Kafir is born in consequence. The passage through Jahannam is that passage of taking full account for every act kafr and any shirk, and so it is a passage in which those whom seek only to accept to themself the responsiblity for many of the kafir in the world, are seeming to sink and fall, but are falling into the way through Jahannam into Jannah. Those whom seek constantly to avoid responsiblity for any other aspect of the world besides that which pleases themself, or manifests them in self righteousness, are those whom are forced into Jahannam and get stuck there simply because they were unwilling to perceive the full picture of cause and effect. In that full picture, Animist belief structures were what pre-dated Islam as the methodology of preventing kafir.

If I accidentally imagined that I could today sew a bear suit, and bought a pattern and fabric and cut up all the fabric, while imagining eventually wearing the bear suit, then unless I can in Allah complete the bear suit, I am in kafr while imagining wearing it. Within an Animist culture the solution is simply that a portion of my eventual suffering must be that of an actual bear.

The shaytan are those whom in Animist cultures were non-believers because it was not detected by the Jinn for a long time that all their own kafr are only that of birds and plants and insects, rather than of other animals. Within Islam only have we learned to distinguish a real Shaytan from a Human and then to accord them their actual status, which is not that of Jinn, but of those whom just can not know themself apart from Jinn. They got themself all mixed up with Satan and other of the Jinn in His likeness. Then they set about pushing a few Jinn down the hole of who was at fault; but pushed the Jinn so far that most of the Jinn want to be in Jesus and in Islam now. The Shaytan pushed the Jinn so far that the Jinn just saw that the Shaytan are not real Human beings but more alike to birds and insects; Ants in fact, and green parrots. But it needed for an Animist culture to exist within which all man are identified with animals before such could be detected.

Let me explain that last sentence. Aboriginal Australian culture is substantially different from other Animist cultures. This is because we are not only being caused to exist, between the grave and hereafter, as animals/birds/plants etc (even rocks in the bacteria within), through exorcisms and because of ill mindedness. We all subject ourself to being caused to exist within an animal form as a method which is inimical with immunisation. Like a small portion of illness of cow pox prevents susceptiblity to small pox; living in the form of a kangaroo, prevents any future susceptiblity to behaving like a kangaroo or enabling kangaroo kaf; that is to say, having previously lived in form of a kangaroo can manifest a protection from falling into Shaytan's black magic through the weakness that is kangaroo mindedness.

It is as though we Aborigines, as a full local community, were all long ago exorcised and that our genetic racial characteristics are determined by that. Yet again it happens that more Shaytan head our way, and so we are falling again through the deviousness they now manifest. So that is why, in Aboriginal culture of Australia, NOT ONE BABY is conceived whom is not able to be verified as having already lived within an animal form, but BY WILL IN ALLAH to Immunise the self against black magic. But also we all regard the world as still sustaining such illness that we must, between the grave and hereafter, exist again in Animal form so as to re-immunise our nature.

Often we seem quite liken to those whom are actual Shatyan but that is the full effect of the immunisation. The shape changer ablitity is that of emotions and mind. When my mind is forced into kafr by a shaytan, then I loose consciousness, it is a biological fact. Not every Aboriginal Australian is yet so fully unable to believe in Shaytan, but we all gradually become more and more unable to believe in the wrong of the world. At times, like in this modern climate, many of our people are falling to the shaytan, but we are able to be compassionate and regard our own fall as what will ultimately protect us, by knowing of our fall only what animal/plant/bird shape it takes.

This is how we ever survived in the driest continent. How could there be so much unique flora and fauna if Allah were not with us in having caused by our very Souls existing with and adopting the natural world as our true self?

I know that the teaching is not unique to Australia. The simple statment "I am that" sort of sums it up. "If it entered my considerations then I am becoming it" is another way to regard this fact. "If my mind falls to kafr then I am . . . ." : surely it is better to know what natural non-Human life form is caused by each distinct sort of kafr than to pre-suppose more and more time in Jahannam is being caused by every act of kafr causing Kafir to be born?

The marked distinction between Australian Aboriginal culture and other Animist based belief systems; is that Aborigines of Australia all regard that there is more to fear that we might have not accounted for ourself in full than to fear in being accountible to a larger degree of sin than is our own. We teach our children to believe in this passing world that we are of the animal kingdom and not in that form we may one day in Jannah inhabit. When every child believes that "In the future I will be my own true animal again" then every time an act of kafr happens, it only causes increases of animals rather than causing kafir. When the whole community believes that we will all only be animals through the grave, and that of hereafter only Allah can know, well then there just can not exist any kafir, since no person is causing kafir. Despite how many Bilbies we might cause.

Any Aborigine knows how to read the world for evidence of what sort of kafr was wrong with their mind. We all can know why Steve Irwin died because a Sting Ray got him through the heart, and a sting ray is a very specific form of kafr. (What about that boy who was swallowed by a snake in Indonesia... had he been talking too strongly the truth to his friends?) Here is another example, one day I walked to the supermarket only because that is where everybody gets their groceries, and I saw, in modern industrial suburbia, a tiny marsupial hopping mouse. It is such a rare sight that at first I thought it was a cane toad (they are not so rare just here, and neither are cats which makes the marsupial mouse a rare sight), but upon a closer inspection it was proven to be a hopping marsupial mouse. So what sort of kafr had I committed to have seen it? The knowledge of Indigenous Animist belief is that information.

But now what life I can see in my environment informs me only that I need to get up off the computer for a while to proceed with those matters I have earlier this morning intended, so as not to be today in kafr.

But perhaps this whole assembly of information about the beliefs of Aboriginal Australia really needed to be, in the first instance, placed well within the full set of beliefs which is internationally regarded as Animist, and Shamanic.

waram

 

[Curaezipirid]

Waram,

I hope that it is not only the moderating team who will be reading this, but believe that there are others with an real interest in Aboriginal Australian culture who warrant my continuing to re-post in this thread occassionally, despite the lack of other folk posting.

This post is a reflection upon another post I have made in which one of the aspects of a Muslims general schooling is actually at odds with Aboriginal culture, and so the situation is in need of exposing. It is in the context of marriages, which can be difficult to describe.

However what makes this specific matter all the more difficult to describe, is that there are already too many negative reflections upon it from persons whom only wish harm upon Aboriginal culture.

The usual anthropological way of describing the facts is to try to call it an "open marriage system". In fact it was never that. There were always very strict rules regulating whom was eligible to marry whom.

However where the term "open" came to be used, was in the context that a brother might lend one among his wives, if he has more than one, to another man whom is in that same category of being a man able to marry her. Like a temporary marriage is contracted between two men about the permanent wife of one of them. Clearly the permanent Husband will not make such arrangments unless he is advantaged by, and his wife willing.

Most often these arrangements are used when a stranger, or a known man, has arrived travelling through, and has not brought his own wife with him. Often what seems to be the case is that women are traded like commodities, but factually the women have a high degree of control over what is happening to their bodies. There is a cultural feature that I allude to else where, and which is compatible with Islam, in that we each regard our self as like to a commodity. So if a man seems to be making an arrangment to his advantage in respect of his wife, it is not that he regards himself as able to force her into any arrangment, but that he regards her self as his property. Similarly a clan under a patriarch would suppose that a certain number of the men in that clan were 'themself', or in aspects of themself, communal rather than private property. But certainly not communal to everybody or anybody, but only within specific set groups whom had all undertaken the same initition paths into the sacred knowledge inheritance.

However, the issue in which a distinct disagreement arises is that in which a women is able to be sort of sold, or at least traded within certainty of return in equal worth.

Even more difficult is that at times a very good wife with specific talent, but one married to a man within a specific leadership ability, might have been offered to a stranger as a temporary bride, but without actual trust on the part of her husband or herself for the stranger. Yet in an act designed to be the most expedient method of permanently connecting the stranger with the local Ummah, or, if not, hastening his death. Such tasks were not performed as prostitution, and there was a strong regard that thereby they needed to be carried out by those very good wives whom would not take any personal advantage of the situation.

Yet with all that has been perpetrated against Aboriginal society, the social pattern has manifested in modern times almost akin to prostition, but still without the woman being advantaged. To equate the regard with American Indigenous culture, it is as though our Sqaws have a ridiculous quantity of feathers in their hair.

When a newcomer arrives, if there is any doubt about whether he is shaytan, then the method of lending him a skilled wife is the most expedient means of ascertaining what he is. For that purpose many men might become involved in the total dynamic, though obviously not physically. Yet most close brothers might have loaned each other their wife for a time, and so the whole Ummah has a deeply entrenched concern with the sexual behaviour of every of its members.

Nobody gets a private life is basic. As basic to being an Aborigine as it is to being a Muslim in the Ummah of Islam.

Aboriginal society existed for a very long time in which it was only sexual behaviour and killing animals to eat which accorded death for many of us.

Already Traditional Aboriginal communities are certain in knowledge that the eventual major change to our society will only be that of sustaining a pattern of one man one wife, eventually, and when there are equal numbers of men and women, and no shaytan getting about, that is. Well, actually, maybe we won't eat meat either; but somehow the idea of not eating meat is harder to confront for us often than is celibacy.

But why?

and when we most often these days all seem like prostitutes . . .

But really the belief is that a betrothal occurs which can be permanent or not permanent, depending entirely upon adherence to law. Either party infringes Shari'ah towards the other and there is a way out of the betrothal. Marriage is only cemented with a baby, and to that there are occassionally babies whose paternity is not so important biologicially, as it is in mental associations. Such phenomena are not regarded as negative function within Aboriginal culture; except only in that such manifestations have attracted negative speculations from external to Aboriginal culture.

There is, what seems to me, an inversion of American Indigenous management of pride. Being shameless is regarded as a high social status. Yet in every aspect of sexual conduct, in any contact, deep shame is entrenched, and regarded as proper. I guess that is what enables the type of marital arrangements which I have described. There are also very strict divisions of labour between the genders in all sacred matters.

Waram

 

[Curaezipirid]

Waram

Here is a website which teaches portion of Aboriginal belief structure for children. It is made by the Australian National Public Network television broadcaster, with the community whom are featured, including substantial input from the children as to how they are coping and relating with what has become of the world. The children are all well skilled in inter-cultural dialogue.

http://www.usmob.com.au

waram

 

[Curaezipirid]

Salam Waram Hello Shalom whatever word you need to greet you alaykum

There has been in my mind a problem about this thread. I seem to have been so far within my own culture in portraying my culture, as to not have been able to fully revealed our cultural strengths.

I wrote that we can not, if in our culture, describe it from any perspective external to it.

But today I though to try because of needing to express what it is not, because I fear about ills that could befall any persons whom misconceive of it.

But I find that I can not reveal. That is the key to us. If you misconceive of us, you become automated into a pattern of learning the truth the hard way.

There is not much else to say really.

But I can tell a little bit more. Our culture relies upon empathy with relationship more than object. That might not need to be relationship between two persons, but perhaps the relationship between a tree and a mountain, or a rock and the sand. But also Human relationships are more important than individual Human participants.

The principal to comprehend is that the whole is more than the sum of its parts. So in a group of two or three persons, our nature as a group is more than the contribution each individual is making.

That equation can only be real if we are in belief in Allah. As Human biology lectures teach that the sum of all the cells in our liver is greater than the contribution of each individual cell, so need Human society be regarded as greater than the contribution of each individual Human.

Thankfully that is a law which can not apply unless the contributions being made are in the direction of Jannah, and attaining everlasting life in Allah.

That is why it is so difficult to relate to a culture in which there is an understanding that entry to Jahannam is the method for some folk of attaining Jannah. So nobody in our culture pressures anybody to so accept.

In fact, our marsupials are known to be an animal which a Human Alaqa can inhabit without ever being in Jahannam. That is a really really important aspect of our way. A man can die, and deliver himself from his body in perfect innocence, but then choose to enter a marsupial, for no reason other than the love of Allah. But because he has evidence that such an experience is enabling of Allah to bless his existance with a higher capacity to stabilise the mind in the sunlight of Allah's will.

Other persons in our culture, might never find themselves able to enter an animal, but rather always fall to birds or insects.

But the point is that it is by relationship and valuing relationship as a phenomenon, that we are enabled.

Remember that focussing upon differences highlights similarities, while focussing upon similarity highlights differences. Focus upon relationship forms a certainty of individuality in decision making processes, and that above all else is what sets our culture apart.

Salam

 

[Curaezipirid]

Salamualaykum,

This morning pondering upon warfare a new way of defining Aboriginal culture popped into my mind. It has reference to another post in another forum in which I did define the method our culture engages of preventing sihr from deluding us. But this is the nuts and bolts of why we believe we turn into animals:

What the trick of sihr Gog and Magog use, caused to many of the ancestors in very remote antiquity, of Aboriginal Australians, was the following: If we depict ourselves accepting our own accountiblity in Allah, then we are accused by shatyan for accepting that account, as though acceptance of Allah is the crime, rather than the crime being what we can accept as our wrong by keeping our mind to Allah. The fact is that shaytan will find something wrong with us in any Human expression. If we are perfect, then we are only too perfect. So we face a situation in which either we let ourselves manifest out of Hijab, showing the face of our Humanity, and become accused wrongly for that; or, we keep total Hijab, in which we are then accused as though we cover because we need to hide our wrong. Clearly both accusations are wrong. It is the shaytan themselves they imagine we are alike to. Their way of being covered is in hiding, and their way of showing a Human face is as a wrong. Yet how to escape their accusations upon us defeats us. Except only in one thing.

We Aboriginal Australians prove to the shayteen directly, that we each accept upon our self the face of one perfectly criminal manifestation, but which they already know we are innocent of. So we each have a nice hairy marsupial face, in which we are not in Hijab, and of which, shayteen can imagine of us all they like, and we all know they are not imagining truth. That keeps them happy. Especially because they suppose themselves to be the victors, because try as they might to win by imitating our strategy, even by appearing in the vanity of a marsupial themselves, it has proven to be that case that a shayteen is not able to manifest as any form of mammal. They only manifest birds and insects, but are adept at forcing us to manfiest any non-Human expression which we are susceptible to falling to. So we hide our Humanity by keeping it in Hijab, and throw to the shayteen the appearance of the bone of an animal we know we are not, yet will let our face become.

It is only that we are giving them a game that they like to play better than any other.

Salamualaykum rebecca

 

[Curaezipirid]

Wa alaykum salam warahmatullah sister

It is such a shame that this thread has been allowed to die so soon after it seemed to be getting somewhere. Alas! we can't have it all. My apologies for also neglecting this thread.

I hope you're in good health and in strong Imaan since last conversed.



I can not say I quite comprehend with all that you mentioned above and to agree or disagree would be stupidious on my behalf. However, I reside with your last two sentences. I believe the verse in question here is: 'And of us some are Muslims..." (Al-Jinn:14). I find the matter of questioning about Jinn both intriguing due to my thirst for knowledge but also somewhat fearful at times. There are reasons why Allah conceals certain things from us and although my curiosity may take the better of me I realise I should not question what was left hidden from our eyes and what we cannot grasp.




I presume that Islam has always had some contact with aboriginal culture as Islam has existed from the beginning. Contradicting this would be denying that the first Man and Woman (Adam and Eve) were believers and those who repented for their sins. Due to this and my understanding of Islam I reside with the idea that aboriginal culture would initially have had some contact with Islam though we may not be aware of it. Allah states:
And for every nation, there is a Messenger; when their Messenger comes, the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. (Yunus:47)

And verily, We have sent among every nation a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities, etc. i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah)." Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified. So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth). (An-naml:36)




I don't understand what you mean by this. Could you clarify it further please? Sorry for the burden sister

Here, refereing back to my original, I am meaning that fields of study such as immuno-genetics, have not pain due consideration to the real worth of the immunity present in Australian Aborigines. Immunity to shaytan that is. So we might suspect that shaytan hold the purse strings of such fields of study and no more volunteer to become subjects of such study.

[
This is very Alien to me, never came across such thing in Islam, so I'm assuming it is something from the aboriginal culture and has no relevance to Islam, correct me if i'm mistaken for I'm merely a talibah.

This is shocking to me Silver Pearl, that you had not known it to be a part of Islam that we must always endeavour to cause the maximum of our knowledge to be manifest in the physical body.

[
Shaytaan may be from the human race and also Jinn, however there is nothing suggesting that a shaytaan will only manfest into someone who has red hair. That implies that red haired people are to be avoided as no one wants to befriend the devil for the sheer sake of amusement or for any other reason for that matter.

I had not intended that meaning. The fact is that shayteen themselves do not manifest in red hair. We folk with red hair are a different, but similar phenomenon. The liason between the genetic and the Devil is certainly never amusing, but one of a genetic capacity to hold with a far greater extent of fear, without ever expressing.

[
If one conceals themselves with the hijaab (be aware that the headscarf is addressed as Khimaar whilst hijaab is a general term which is in reference to the Islamic dress code instructed in the Shari'ah) then surely they would be a munafiq (hyprocrite) rather than a shaytaan whom is a kufaar.

Hijab is not manfiesting your appearance in mind or in Dreams, or letting it manifest in any other persons mind. Munafiq is who had professed faith in Islam by pronouncing shahada, then proven themselves to have never truly believed. Kufaar are different from shaytaan. Shaytaan are who never want to believe but always want to prove that others are neither believers. Kufaar are not ever in Allah, but are found to be caused by us who can be in Allah forgetting to sustain our self in Allah. Therefore the shaytaan cause more kufaar then Human beings, but because Human beings can conceptualise accepting responsiblity for kafr, while shaytan always only try to escape responsiblity for kafr, the kufaar are for Humanity to manage and not for any shaytaan to do.

[
I'm sure it can be understood with words and Sorry to burden you with further clarities constantly.



Yeah I have noticed that I'm rather analytical of this subject, I'm trying to grasp the issue without considering everything you mention as merely metaphorical and at most of the times I find it very hard. If I take it literally then there is a confusion on whether what you're stating is from the pool of Islam or rather of aboriginal culture and you have informed me not to look at your examples and posts as metaphorical.


As you state 'Waram'

Took me awhile to get around to reading this, and the earlier silver pearl post I will respond to now also.

 

[Curaezipirid]

:wasalamext

How are you sister? I have not spoken to you for a long period. I hope you're in good health and strong imaan




I never implied that all aboriginals experience hallucination of morphing into animals. Sometimes we try and perceive the world through a pane of fantasy and our body give us a rush of overwhelming feelings that we can not explain. There was a period of time in my life where I was engulfed in writing fantastical stories. I used to put a lot of thinking into it and sometimes I’d day dream through the plots to perfect any errors. At times I’d have to look through the eyes of a killer, or the eyes of mystical creatures to fully grasp plotline I had created. Now this in no means validate my conclusion that I have been a killer (god forbid) or a mystical creature. Our mind is an incredible thing subhanallah and no one can deny this truth. However, not every sense we summon is real. Please don’t feel as though I’m trying to strip your belief system, rather I’m trying to understand this from a logical perspective. Since you have stated that I should not read through your post from a metaphorical sense I’m finding it that much harder to comprehend all these concepts which is alien to Islam, my own belief system. Please understand where I am coming from and I truly hope that we can put our insignificant differences aside and utter under the banner of tawheed.



I have not come across any scientific commentary to support this but then again I am not exactly a scientist. Do you happen to have a link to support your comments as I’d love to read about it? It sounds interesting.

the mistakes about our way which you make are only those which we always account for because our culture is designed to cause that certain persons can not perceive anything other of us

this thread has the most lengthy depiction of Aboriginal way of any. It is bereft only in that I have not put out into the world knowledge of our actual good practise with children.

[

Inshallah you will not be shunned here for teaching us something about aboriginal culture. You must try and understand matters from the eyes of Muslims. Majority of us are alien to aboriginal culture and as you have shown there is a lot of conflicting subjects between Islam and aboriginal belief system. I can not state why you may have been banned as I do not hold knowledge on it but I presume it was not a personal vendetta that resulted in your ban. Wa Allahu’3llim.

I think it is part of the exact same phenomenon, of persons not yet enabled within Aboriginal Australian culture, just not being able to grasp it. It usually requires about three generations to learn. There are among us persons whom trace their ancestry back to an invasion by Chinese about 350 years ago, that is 150 years before the English arrived. Those individuals are usually not able to be detected as not being totally in culture to a non-Aborigine. But to us they are still today very obvious as not fully accepting our culture. Even by comparison to the Aboriginal shaytan, they are not yet fully relating within our way. It is very obvious really.

[

That I concur with, ‘you are what you eat’ sort of sense.




Perhaps I am being too analytic with your posts; the problem is certainly from my part and my lack of understanding in the aboriginal belief. Nonetheless my replies are in no means to nit pick your culture but like I have stated several times on this thread I’m merely trying to shed some light on Islam’s stance on some of the subjects you have discussed.



Exorcism is casting out evil spirits by prayers that I am guessing we agree on at least. A person possessed by jinn is certainly not in the sane category. Some people become insane but the person is in no state to be governed by the jinn, hence insanity. It could be that we have a different interpretation of the term governing. Jinn couldn’t control say a state while in the body of a human. That is something we only seem to ever witness on television for the sheer sake of our amusement.

Wa allahu’3llim.

A person possessed by a shaytan might manifest a mental illness. The shaytan usually manifest mental illness if regarded within an Islamic based culture, or the mainstream 'West', where shaytan are the empitomy of schizophrenia. Within traditional Australian culture shaytan might only be known as a fighting bird person, or some other description fitting. There is no definition of being mentally ill within Aboriginal culture. Reason is always found in the behaviour. Either the behaviour of the person named ill by the west, or the behaviour of other people whom wanted to harm that person. (usually shaytan) Shaytan are also named often as Ant people. Some are fire ants, (those are the danger), others are honey ants, and others are meat ants etc. Each sort of ant aligns with a tribe of Israel actually. Honey pot Ants are great fun.


However it also ought to be told that if we say that every person possessed by Djinn were necessarily insane, then we might prove only that every exorcism is a process of making the person being exorcised insane. The Muslim Djinn cause sanity, for if they did not, whom could prevent us all from the insanity of shayteen.

The Djinn are proving their own sanity perfect even when disabled from making claim to the identity of the sane. By the nature of real Djinn it is that if you accuse any Muslim Djinn in Allah of being insane, you prove only the insanity of every person whom so assumes their own advantage.

Silver Pearl wrote:
"A person possessed by jinn is certainly not in the sane category."
this is not true or how could the surah The Jinn be, and how could a real exorcism ever happen.
Silver Pearl wrote:
"Some people become insane but the person is in no state to be governed by the jinn, hence insanity."
You imply that the state of insanity, (perhaps caused by possession by shayteen, whom often tempt a person to engage in sexual behaviour causal to diseases which manifest either as an STD or as insanity), is a state in which the person can not accept being governed in mind by a Muslim Jinn. But thereby you imply that if they could bear being governed in mind by a Muslim Jinn they would be sane. So you prove me and not yourself, in my commentary upon your first sentence.
Sliver Pearl wrote:
"It could be that we have a different interpretation of the term governing. Jinn couldn’t control say a state while in the body of a human. That is something we only seem to ever witness on television for the sheer sake of our amusement. "
Are you speculating upon the breadth of what control Djinn may manifest through enabling the minds of Humanity? Certainly it is possible for all sorts of things to be done by possession, but every thing done precludes another thing. Perhaps if I do making cup cakes, I preclude you making a muffin, but perhaps if I do making cup cakes I preclude you making cup cakes. Either way you can still make either cup cakes or muffins. The difference is in the method by which I do. The shayteen possess only through the method of using the self. Djinn can possess through self but also Spirit, and so with love. When shayteen express love the become akin to a fire ant, but perhaps that is because they are only able to reduce a Human self, and not enlarge it. Where as Muslim Djinn are very adept at enlarging Human self.

salam

 

[Silver Pearl]

Asalamu alaykum warahamtullaah,

Firstly I hope you're in good health and in strong Imaan. I hope that Allaah grants you goodness in this world and the hereafter. It has been a long time since I have had the pleasure to talk to you. I hope all is well with you sister

I have decided that there is much you could teach me, so I will mostly read and ask for clarity and make reference to Islaamic teachings if need be in certain aspects.

This is shocking to me Silver Pearl, that you had not known it to be a part of Islam that we must always endeavour to cause the maximum of our knowledge to be manifest in the physical body.

I'm sorry if I gave you the false image that I knew anything about Islaam. I'm amongst the laymen. I didn't know from the little knowledge I have.

I had not intended that meaning. The fact is that shayteen themselves do not manifest in red hair. We folk with red hair are a different, but similar phenomenon. The liason between the genetic and the Devil is certainly never amusing, but one of a genetic capacity to hold with a far greater extent of fear, without ever expressing.

Can you kindly expand on this idea? I don't fully understand, thank you.

Hijab is not manfiesting your appearance in mind or in Dreams, or letting it manifest in any other persons mind.

This is a unique way of understanding hijaab. Hijaab dictates how you're perceived and how you portray yourself. I'm sure you're aware of the importance of the hijaab in Islam. It is not a head-covering, which usually people define it in simple language but rather it is a dress-code and related attitude.

Munafiq is who had professed faith in Islam by pronouncing shahada, then proven themselves to have never truly believed.

You're correct, basically a hyprocrite.

Kufaar are different from shaytaan. Shaytaan are who never want to believe but always want to prove that others are neither believers. Kufaar are not ever in Allah, but are found to be caused by us who can be in Allah forgetting to sustain our self in Allah. Therefore the shaytaan cause more kufaar then Human beings, but because Human beings can conceptualise accepting responsiblity for kafr, while shaytan always only try to escape responsiblity for kafr, the kufaar are for Humanity to manage and not for any shaytaan to do.

Allaah knows best. I do not know sorry so I can not comment.

Took me awhile to get around to reading this, and the earlier silver pearl post I will respond to now also.

It is perfectly fine, it has taken me a while to pertake in this thread again.

the mistakes about our way which you make are only those which we always account for because our culture is designed to cause that certain persons can not perceive anything other of us

I understand, this reminded me of what A scholar, Imam As-Suyuti said (May Allaah be pleased with him). It is much like how the uneducated in shari'eeh is not allowed to go into sufism for danger that it will stray them. Is that what you mean? That because I do not know your culture or comprehend it that it would be dangerous for me to dwelve into it? If that is the case, I see the sense in it.

this thread has the most lengthy depiction of Aboriginal way of any. It is bereft only in that I have not put out into the world knowledge of our actual good practise with children.

I have to agree with your first statement. As for your latter statement, then perhaps you can talk about it more?

I think it is part of the exact same phenomenon, of persons not yet enabled within Aboriginal Australian culture, just not being able to grasp it. It usually requires about three generations to learn.

Ya Rabb! (O Lord!) it is so difficult to learn it. It is much easier to study Islaam. If you put the same amount of passion and dedication it is amazing how far you would get. Indeed Islaam is easy.

There are among us persons whom trace their ancestry back to an invasion by Chinese about 350 years ago, that is 150 years before the English arrived. Those individuals are usually not able to be detected as not being totally in culture to a non-Aborigine. But to us they are still today very obvious as not fully accepting our culture. Even by comparison to the Aboriginal shaytan, they are not yet fully relating within our way. It is very obvious really.

Inform me of something, for I am in the dark in this. Do you say you see the shaytaan with your naked eye? Or is an assumption that amongst your folks are some that are shaytaan? In Islaam the issue of jinn is one that is really discussed in such detail as you do. For one it is dangerous and turns the heart and causes it to not rest. Some even go to the extent of seeking jinn to befriend them, not even knowing whether they will be good or bad. It is advisable to neglect such path as it will cause danger more than comfort if you're not a scholar of the field.

A person possessed by a shaytan might manifest a mental illness. The shaytan usually manifest mental illness if regarded within an Islamic based culture, or the mainstream 'West', where shaytan are the empitomy of schizophrenia.

Can you bring forth an article or something that I can read on about this?

this is not true or how could the surah The Jinn be, and how could a real exorcism ever happen.

A person who is possessed can be distinguished because they are not acting normal. I guess in the end it would vary on the person but I don't know anyone (I speak of scholars and those who have knowledge on this) who would say a possessed person is sane.

You imply that the state of insanity, (perhaps caused by possession by shayteen, whom often tempt a person to engage in sexual behaviour causal to diseases which manifest either as an STD or as insanity), is a state in which the person can not accept being governed in mind by a Muslim Jinn.

That is what I was alluding at, the jinn and the humans don't mix unless Allaah wills so. Those jinn who manifest into humans are recorded in history and have been mentioned, however, as for them governing, I have not come across it. Sulaymaan (alayhi salaam) had the power to make jinn do as he wished by the mercy of Allaah.
And there were gathered before Sulaymaan his hosts of jinns and men, and birds, and they all were set in battle order (marching forwards). (27:17)

There is recording and evidence to show that jinn were governed, but not themselves as governers. Now in the realm of jinn I do not doubt that there might be Muslim jinn who rule, the same rules apply I presume, God knows best.

But thereby you imply that if they could bear being governed in mind by a Muslim Jinn they would be sane. So you prove me and not yourself, in my commentary upon your first sentence.

The issue is not about Muslim jinn, but rather of those jinn who are evil and my statement still stands I believe. Are you suggesting that a jinn can possess a human and there would be complete harmony?

And God knows best.