When you say, for example, “Allahhu Akbar”, I am not going to question you as to on what basis you are saying that Allah is great. Even if I do, that would only be for academic reasons. But in the case of the Shahada, you are saying, “I bear witness.” Unless the word ‘witness’ also means ‘believe’, it is plain that a lie is being uttered in the Shahada.
Look, my question is only on the usage of the word ‘witness’. When you say you believe such and such a thing, that is acceptable. Who am I to dispute what you believe in? However, when you say you are testifying to the truth of anything, it has to be something more than belief. Unless you have a personal experience, you cannot testify anything. Mere believing in something will not do. You cannot say in a Shariat court that you believe you saw a rape scene. You should have actually seen the penetration in the act of rape to qualify as a witness. When the Shariat is so precise about the use of the word ‘witness’, why the laxity in the case of the Shahada in the usage of the word?
Where have you searched and found the evidence? In the Quran? But the Quran is not your evidence, it is Allah’s evidence. To be a witness you have to base your evidence on your own experience. Not on your experience of another’s experience, even if Allah’s.
I do not know Arabic. I know ‘witness’ is a translation. The question is, is it a correct translation? In translations of the Shahada, ‘witness’ and ‘testify’ are used interchangeably. Do you see a difference between ‘witness’ and ‘testify’ as used in the Shahada?
When a Muslim says, in reciting the Shahada, “I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and Mohammad is his messenger”, is the Muslim simply reciting a verse which is in the Quran or elsewhere? In that case the Muslim is simply repeating like a parrot and he cannot be accused of lying. But if the Shahada is supposed to be a truthful testimony by each person uttering the Shahada, then it is a lie because no one would have witnessed what they claim to have. Therefore please clarify what exactly the Shahada is all about. Moreover, is the phrase “I bear witness” in the Quran? Where did the Shahada, in full, originate?
A Muslim is then satisfying the first pillar of Islam!
I am not following?.. You have made a nonsensical statement and assumed it to be true but haven't told us why this one follows from the other?--
How is it a lie? I have written this just a couple of days ago
see my reply above.. once you have taken care of that, can we ourselves get a bit more advanced!
According to Webster's II dictionary
I am, in this thread, only asking why all Muslims keep repeating the Shahadah with the phrase “I bear witness”? If the phrase was “I believe”, it would have been perfect. A Muslim in repeating the Shahada is saying that he is witness to Allah being the only god and Mohammad being His messenger. All I want to know is in what way is he a witness to Allah being the only god and Mohammad being his messenger? If he is simply agreeing to what is stated in the Quran, how does he become a witness?
I beg to differ from you. The Shahada clearly uses the word ‘witness’. You can never be a witness unless you have seen or experienced. Believing is not witnessing.
I have contention only with the usage of the word witness. I repeat, believing is not witnessing.
You might feel the correct translation of the word is ‘profess’ but since the word ‘profess’ means ‘to affirm faith in or allegiance to’ are you, in reciting the Shahada simply affirming your faith or allegiance to the idea that Allah is the only god?
Look, I used the word ‘lie’ only because the word ‘witness’ is used. To witness we needs have a personal experience and without this personal experience we would be lying in claiming to have witnessed.in your opinion it is a plain lie. Can you disprove it though?
You have given the definition of all related words but not the actual word in contention – witness.
If faith can be changed, then what is so fundamental about it?
When you first said Saturn has beautiful rings around it, you were not testifying to the truth of it, you were only stating or forming your opinion or belief based on the findings of the scientists or astronomers who discovered the fact through observation, witnessing and personal experience. But when you finally got to see Saturn through the telescope, you have witnessed and what you say would have a ring of truth around it. Likewise, knowing Allah through the Quran and knowing Him personally are two different things. We can claim to be a witness to the truth of Allah only if we have personal experience. And the truth is, if we have had a personal experience of Allah, then we would not need His middleman any more.
Testifying and acceptance are different. You can accept anything you wish, right or wrong, and it is your freedom to do so. But you cannot freely testify. There must be a basis for testifying and that has to be personal experience.
The statement is, "I bear witness" which means to testify. I used the definition of "bear" to qualify the use of the word witness which you can't seem to connect. So technically if one uses only the word witness, your point is well taken. As a noun witness 1. One who has seen or heard something..., but as a verb witness ... 3. To testify to: to bear witness. The obvious use in the shahada is this definition of the word.
I mean fundamental in the sense of how one perceives the world. To change one's religion, as I have, my perspective is that person goes through a "paradigm shift" that redefines his understandiang of reality. It is like going for the first 30 years of one's life being extremely near-sighted and then suddenly getting eyeglasses to correct his vision for the first time. Reality has not changed, but this individuals perception of it certainly has.
No, this is not exactly true. I saw pictures of Saturn in textbooks and I accepted them as being true representations of reality. This was later confirmed when I looked through the telescope. I could have said, "Based on my studying of a book on astronomy that I accept as true and observing pictures in it of Saturn, I testify that Saturn has rings around it." Likewise, "Based on my studying of the Quran that I accept is the Word of Allah, I testify that there is only One God without partner or equal." You are correct in that we will not know for certainty beyond any shadow of doubt that what we Muslims testify to is actually true until the resurrection and the Day of Judgment.
Perhaps, that "personal experience" comes when one finally realizes the truth of something for the first time. That "aha" moment came for me over 26 years ago.