What is the Quran's view of Jews?

[czgibson]

Greetings Ansar,

Frankly, I'm stunned that you won't concede this point. This example clearly negates your original point, and I'm sure that any independent jury would acknowledge that.

Yes they are, but where is he using them to justify acts of anti-semitism? He isn't.

You've already stated that the speaker has made anti-Semitic comments; it is also clear that he is using the Qur'an to support his viewpoint.

He is recalling God's anger those that deviated from the truth, not using this as a reason to attack them. His reasoning behind opposition to them is the Israeli agression and he quotes the Qur'an to say that the Jews acting like those Jews condemned by the Qur'an.

I accept that he is talking within the context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but he doesn't emphasise that the Jews he speaks of when referring to the Qur'an are those specific Jews that angered god. The way his speech is presented makes it seem as if he longs for the blood of all Jews, and any independent reader could be forgiven for making this interpretation.

That's clearly not the same as quoting the Qur'an and saying, "We can go attack Jews because the Qur'an says they are evil".

How clear?

The Qur'an is very clear on this: The greatest enemies of the Islamic nation are the Jews, may Allah fight them...

That seems pretty unambiguous to me.

For his purposes he could just as well quote the Torah and God's condemnation of some of the Jews in the Torah. I think your example only solidifies Muzammil Siddiqi's statement. It is not because of the Qur'an that he is inciting hatred - it is because of the political situation and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. If there was no conflict would there be the same hatred and anger? It is only because of conflict that such anger has arisen.

OK, let me clarify what I'm saying: I understand that anger against the Israelis has arisen because of the conflict; I can see why the Palestinians feel viciously aggrieved. Also, I am not claiming that the Qur'an is the root of this anger against the Jews.

What I'm saying is that the Qur'an can and has been used, rightly or wrongly, as justification for acts of anti-Semitism, as we see here. This very sermon has been cited by the Jewish Anti-Defamation League as a prime example of anti-Semitism. See here.

He is not justifying the anger on the basis of the Qur'an, he is justifying the anger on the basis of the Israeli agression and the perceived refusal of peace, and he is saying they are like those Jews condemned by God in the Qur'an.

This point does not come across clearly at all in his sermon, and, as I've said, I'm certain that any independent jury would view this as a clear example of anti-Semitic speech with the Qur'an used as justification by the speaker.

Peace

 

[samobosna96]

i am goping to put this on the table......

people state the quran is anti-semetic...... well..... have you ever read that bible????? in there we have Jesus calling present day palestinians dogs and God stating he will kill every generation of jews for idolatry and so on and so forth...... if people want to state the quran is anti-semetic take another look at the so called "book of Love".

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hi Callum,
Maybe I'm not doing a very good job explaining this, so let me try again. The original statement specified anti-semitic acts, didn't it? Now he said:

The Qur'an is very clear on this: The greatest enemies of the Islamic nation are the Jews, may Allah fight them...

It seems to me that he has said, "Even if we signed for the Jews that we want peace they would not accept it. We shouldn't be surprised at this attitude; the Qur'an has told us that the greatest in animosity towards us will be the Jews."

His other statement was All spears should be directed at the Jews, at the enemies of Allah, the nation that was cursed in Allah's book. Allah has described them as apes and pigs, the calf-worshipers, idol-worshipers. Compare that to a statement like All spears should be directed towards the Jews because they are the enemies of Allah and the cursed nation. We should fight them because they are described as apes, pigs, calf-worshippers, idol-worshippers.

Justify means to provide reasons, doesn't it? Has he ever said that the reason they are to fight back is because the Qur'an mentions some of them were calf-worshippers and were cursed, etc. etc. ? I don't think so.

What I will concede is that the meaning of the statement Throughout the history of Islam, Muslims have never used passages from the Qur'ân to justify acts of anti-Semitism might be better expressed as Throughout the history of Islam, passages from the Qur'an have never been taken by Muslims as a reason for acts of anti-semitism, but the former is more concise and fluid. You agree that the cause of the anger and the reasons behind it are political, and that is what I feel the intent of Siddiqui's statement was.

Peace.

 

[sharvy]

.

Are these not references to the Qur'an? (Callum) .

Yes they are, but where is he using them to justify acts of anti-semitism? He isn't. He is recalling God's anger those that deviated from the truth, not using this as a reason to attack them. His reasoning behind opposition to them is the Israeli aggression and he quotes the Qur'an to say that the Jews acting like those Jews condemned by the Qur'an. That's clearly not the same as quoting the Qur'an and saying, "We can go attack Jews because the Qur'an says they are evil". [snip]

[Sheik Ibrahim Madhi's] other statement was All spears should be directed at the Jews, at the enemies of Allah, the nation that was cursed in Allah's book. Allah has described them as apes and pigs, the calf-worshipers, idol-worshipers. Compare that to a statement like All spears should be directed towards the Jews because they are the enemies of Allah and the cursed nation. We should fight them because they are described as apes, pigs, calf-worshippers, idol-worshippers.

Justify means to provide reasons, doesn't it? Has he ever said that the reason they are to fight back is because the Qur'an mentions some of them were calf-worshippers and were cursed, etc. etc. ? I don't think so.

What I will concede is that the meaning of the statement Throughout the history of Islam, Muslims have never used passages from the Qur'ân to justify acts of anti-Semitism might be better expressed as Throughout the history of Islam, passages from the Qur'an have never been taken by Muslims as a reason for acts of anti-semitism, but the former is more concise and fluid. You agree that the cause of the anger and the reasons behind it are political, and that is what I feel the intent of Madhi's statement was.

Peace.

Hi Ansar,

Suppose an Israeli politician says in public:

Muslims are poorly-educated, irrational, anti-semitic, backwards and ignorant. They will never accept the state of Israel, even if they sign a peace treaty. Therefore in self-defense we must forget about peace treaties and fight and kill Muslims; force is the only thing the Muslim understands.

Now you and I fully agree that such a public comment is and would be CLEARLY untrue, bigoted, and anti-Islamic. The comment itself would be an anti-Islamic act on par with any anti-semitic act. Yet there are indeed poorly-educated, irrational, bigoted, backwards and ignorant Muslims, Jews, Europeans and Americans.

Suppose a defender of the Israeli no-negotiation policy responded to the charge that this politician was anti-Islamic as follows:

The politician was making that statement in the context of the political and military struggle against enemies of the state of Israel that wish to destroy them. Note he didn't say that Israelis should not negotiate with Muslims BECAUSE they are poorly-educated, irrational, bigoted, backwards and ignorant. Everyone knows that some Muslims are and some Muslims aren't like that, and the politician was only referring to those Muslims that are like that. The politician is merely condemning Muslims who are in fact acting poorly-educated, irrational, bigoted, backwards and ignorant. "Justify means to provide reasons doesn't it?" The reason for the speech is to rally support and defend the existence of his country – not to cast aspersions on Muslims as a group. "It is not because of [these Muslim stereotypes] that he is inciting hatred - it is because of the political situation and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. If there was no conflict would there be the same hatred and anger? It is only because of conflict that such anger has arisen. ... You agree that the cause of the anger and the reasons behind it are historical and political, and that is what I feel the intent of [the politician's] statement was." Therefore, the charge of anti-Islamism is misplaced in this case.

I see no practical difference between your reasoning vis à vis Madhi's public statement and the reasoning above absolving the politician from the charge that his statement is a case of anti-Muslim stereotypes providing a reason for anti-Islam/Muslim acts.

By the way, I want to make it clear that I am personally strongly opposed to the Bush-Israeli policies.

Peace,

Sharvy

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hi Sharvy,
Did I deny that the comments were anti-semitic? No, I did not. I denied that the Qur'an was being used as a justification for acts of anti-semitism. So you're comments here are way off the mark.

 

[sharvy]

Hi Sharvy, Did I deny that the comments were anti-semitic? No, I did not. I denied that the Qur'an was being used as a justification for acts of anti-semitism. So you're comments here are way off the mark.

Hi Ansar,

You and I agree that Madhi's statement was indeed anti-semitic - which is any act that promotes "hostility toward or prejudice against Jews as a religious, ethnic, or racial group" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-semitism . If so, then his very act of making that statement was itself an anti-semitic act – certainly fitting the definition of one. Yes, Madhi was trying to justify armed struggle against Israel, but he was also certainly trying to justify and promote hostility and prejudice against Jews in order to promote his other objective: he was justifying both. But without the quotes and references to the Jews from the Qur'an, Madhi's public statement, would not be anti-semitic at all – isn't that right? His message would simply be: The Israelis and Zionists are doing all sorts of nasty, unjust things to the Palestinian people; they cannot be trusted to keep any peace treaty, therefore we must defend our lives, rights, and property and fight these nasty enemies tooth and nail. There is nothing overtly anti-semitic in such a statement. Without those references from the Qur'an, there would be no negative claims seemingly made about Jews in general, as a ethnic, religious, or racial group. Therefore, IMHO, it is quite clear that Madhi was using these references to the Qur'an to justify his anti-semitic act of publicly making that very statement.

On the other hand, if you are right, and Madhi was not using these references to justify his anti-semitism, the difference between using such references anti-semitically and not is so subtle as to be beyond the average person's ability to distinguish the two.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

Peace,

Sharvy.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

You and I agree that Siddiqui's statement was indeed anti-semitic

Siddiqui made anti-semitic remarks?! Muzammil Siddiqui was clear denouncing anti-semitism in his article:

Anti-Semitism means condemning and hating a people because of their Semitic race. Anti-Semitism is bigotry and racism. It is wrong and it has no place in Islam or in Islamic scripture. The Qur'ân does not allow hate against any race, nationality or color​

Let's try to maintain some accuracy, please. And I have explained why I view Muzammil Siddiqui's statements in the article to be accurate.

 

[sharvy]

Siddiqui made anti-semitic remarks?! Muzammil Siddiqui was clear denouncing anti-semitism in his article:

Anti-Semitism means condemning and hating a people because of their Semitic race. Anti-Semitism is bigotry and racism. It is wrong and it has no place in Islam or in Islamic scripture. The Qur'ân does not allow hate against any race, nationality or color​

Let's try to maintain some accuracy, please. And I have explained why I view Muzammil Siddiqui's statements in the article to be accurate.

Ansar, forgive me. I confused the names. I meant Sheik Ibrahim Madhi not Siddiqui. I also apologize to Muzammil Siddiqui.

Peace,

Sharvy

 

[sharvy]

MODERATOR'S COMMENT: THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD IS 'THE QUR'AN'S VIEW OF JEWS' - PLEASE DO NOT POST OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS.

SAUDI TEXTBOOKS ARE NOT THE QUR'AN. THIS THREAD IS ABOUT DEFENDING AND EXPLAINGING HOW THE QUR'AN VIEWS JEWS, NOT WHAT THE MEDIA HAS PRESENTED OF THE CONTENT OF SAUDI TEXTBOOKS. TOPICS THAT DO NOT BELONG IN THIS THREAD CAN BE DISCUSSED IN OTHER THREADS.

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[Dhulqarnaeen]

As a Muslim, I realize that it is the duty of Muslims to follow our prophet Muhammad (pbuh). However, there are some anti-Jewish quotes in the Quran that give the impression that anti-Semitism by Muslims is supported by the Quran.

Can anyone please refute this? Can anybody provide some quotes that expose the truth?

Thanks, and Salaam

Its easy bro, you just have to read the tafseer of those ayah you quoted in tafseer Ibn. Katheer, or tafseer Ath Thabaree and all. You will find the meaning of those ayah wether its mean ISlam teach semitism or else. One thing you must keep in mind, DONT try to understand Quran with your own feeling, or your own brain, cause Quran have to explained by our scholars of ahlul hadith, so we wont get the wrong explanations from it.