What are we discussing about ? A nice piece of Arabic seventh century literature or the very word of God ?
According to Muslims the Quran is the very word of God. It is from that point of view that I am criticizing.
Of course if the Quran were from men as the Bible is (remember the Bible is not considered as the very word of God but as inspired by God), I would accept many of the Quran's shortcomings.
But as it is assumed to be 100% from God I cannot accept that words are put in God's mouth that are unworthy of him.
Can anyone of you produce a school book in which it is stated that man is made from clay/dust/earth ?
On the other hand your history books will tell you that the creation of man from mud is an age-old pagan myth.
Semitic peoples believed that the heart was the seat of thinking and of the soul. That is the reason why that idea is also in the Bible. It is also the reason why it is forbidden to eat blood.
You will notice that God puts a seal on the ears when he does not want men to hear, and on the heart, not on the brains, when he does not want them to think correctly. I'm insisting on that point in the Quran because many Muslims say the Quran is scientific.
The Abu Lahab story and beating one's wife or not could be accepted from men that have a grudge against a neighbour or against women, not from God please !
I do not deny that what we find around us cannot be proofs of the existence of God. But that is the most simplistic set of proofs. See all the deep philosophical discussions that have been conducted by men in the last 2500 years.
I did not post the complete ayas for shortness' sake and because I assumed that all of you knew enough of the Quran.
I'm not thanking people for answering me with links which avoid from thinking by oneself.
A number of elements of the Quran are from Jewish and Christian apocryphal literature and folktales. Everybody knows that. I can see the bad faith of those who pretend they do not understand that.
To answer Sumay:
At medaberet ivrit ? Do you speak Hebrew ? I study religions and languages so if you want to show me how to learn Hebrew in six months just do it. Mazal tov.
I started my first post by saying that the only amazing thing about the Quran is its origin.
We can trace back a great number of elements in the Quran to contemporaneous religious writings and beliefs. But we do not know the details of the composition of the Quran because we have no Arab documents from the time.
The Hadith are oral traditions written down sometimes centuries after the death of the Prophet.
What I think is that Muhammad was in touch with hanifs, or was one himself. He drew from a collection of hanif writings and from discussions with monotheists. He would ponder a text in his head (not heart!) for a few hours or days and then would dictate it to a companion who could write. Maybe they would better the style together according to the rules of Arabic oratory art.
It is just a supposition of mine but it is not impossible to imagine how the Quran was written and by whom.
According to Muslims the Quran is the very word of God. It is from that point of view that I am criticizing.
Of course if the Quran were from men as the Bible is (remember the Bible is not considered as the very word of God but as inspired by God), I would accept many of the Quran's shortcomings.
But as it is assumed to be 100% from God I cannot accept that words are put in God's mouth that are unworthy of him.
Can anyone of you produce a school book in which it is stated that man is made from clay/dust/earth ?
On the other hand your history books will tell you that the creation of man from mud is an age-old pagan myth.
Semitic peoples believed that the heart was the seat of thinking and of the soul. That is the reason why that idea is also in the Bible. It is also the reason why it is forbidden to eat blood.
You will notice that God puts a seal on the ears when he does not want men to hear, and on the heart, not on the brains, when he does not want them to think correctly. I'm insisting on that point in the Quran because many Muslims say the Quran is scientific.
The Abu Lahab story and beating one's wife or not could be accepted from men that have a grudge against a neighbour or against women, not from God please !
I do not deny that what we find around us cannot be proofs of the existence of God. But that is the most simplistic set of proofs. See all the deep philosophical discussions that have been conducted by men in the last 2500 years.
I did not post the complete ayas for shortness' sake and because I assumed that all of you knew enough of the Quran.
I'm not thanking people for answering me with links which avoid from thinking by oneself.
A number of elements of the Quran are from Jewish and Christian apocryphal literature and folktales. Everybody knows that. I can see the bad faith of those who pretend they do not understand that.
To answer Sumay:
At medaberet ivrit ? Do you speak Hebrew ? I study religions and languages so if you want to show me how to learn Hebrew in six months just do it. Mazal tov.
I started my first post by saying that the only amazing thing about the Quran is its origin.
We can trace back a great number of elements in the Quran to contemporaneous religious writings and beliefs. But we do not know the details of the composition of the Quran because we have no Arab documents from the time.
The Hadith are oral traditions written down sometimes centuries after the death of the Prophet.
What I think is that Muhammad was in touch with hanifs, or was one himself. He drew from a collection of hanif writings and from discussions with monotheists. He would ponder a text in his head (not heart!) for a few hours or days and then would dictate it to a companion who could write. Maybe they would better the style together according to the rules of Arabic oratory art.
It is just a supposition of mine but it is not impossible to imagine how the Quran was written and by whom.
.