What would convince you to become Muslim?

[mansio]

Shudnthave

Thanks for your information. I'm a 58 year old Frenchman and i was looking for the feminine of "dude" to return the favor to Sumay. She's a girl, isn't she?
I've never seen "dudette" in English.
"-ette" is a French suffix we use to give a feminine gender and/or a feminine diminutive to a noun.
Most English nouns have no feminine and it might be the case here.

 

[mansio]

Azim

In the Quran and the Bible there are of course true scientific facts. They reflect the science that was known at the time and they have nothing to do with divine inspiration. There must be more scientific facts in the Quran as it is only 1400 years old as compared with the Bible.

Do you mean that separating the earth from heaven, is scientific thinking?
The first pagan religions had a very anthropomorphic view of God and they saw God like a man who pushes apart the element of his creation with his hands.
It is sometimes that way of thinking that has influenced the Bible and the Quran.
One other good example is man created from mud which derives from the sorcerer who molds a statue of a man from clay and insufflates his magical power to animate it.

There is no article "al" in "lamuusi3uuna". The "la-" is an intensive prefix.

41:11) The preceding verse 41:10 illustrates what i told you about the god that orders the different elements of his creation with his hands. He takes a mountain and sets it on the earth as a pillar.
The next verse 41:12 refers to the "seven heavens", again a well known concept to be found in the Bible and Babylonian pagan cosmology.
I admit that i cannot explain the smoke from verse 11. Even if it were an amazing scientific insight (supposing it isn't a sheer coincidence) it won't explain away the many other unscientific verses.

 

[sumay28]

Hey i slept on it.... i'm going to keep the fight alive, brotha/sista/whateva


He [Allah] grants wisdom to whom He pleases; and he to whom wisdom is granted indeed receives a benefit overflowing. But none will grasp the Message except men of understanding. (2:269)


It is Allah Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that Allah has power over all things and that Allah encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur'an, 65:12)


He has let loose the two seas, converging together, with a barrier between them they do not break through. (Qur'an, 55:19-20)

When Allah desires to guide someone, He expands his breast to Islam. When He desires to misguide someone, He makes his breast narrow and constricted as if he were climbing up into the sky. That is how Allah defiles those who have no faith. (Qur'an, 6:125)

You would have supposed them to be awake, whereas in fact they were asleep. We moved them to the right and to the left, and, at the entrance, their dog stretched out its paws. If you had looked down and seen them, you would have turned from them and run, and have been filled with terror at the sight of them. (Qur'an, 18:18)

The above refers to the people of the cave who remained asleep for hundreds of years

Yes, We are able to put together in perfect order the very tips of his fingers. (Qur'an, 75:4)

And since you think that us being formed from clay doesn't hold any ground..
When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.91 In another verse of the Qur'an we are told:

We created man from an extract of clay. (Qur'an, 23:12)

The Arabic word "sulala," translated as "extract" in the verse, means "representative example, essence." As we have seen, the information revealed in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago confirms what modern science tells us-the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil.

 

[sumay28]

“Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious.” (An-Nahl: 125)

Mansio-

After going over some things that I have posted, I definitely want to post here that I apologize if any of it seemed to be rude or disrespectful to your opinions, or to you personally. My passion and lack of being able to put my thoughts into words may appear childish. It is not in a muslim's character come across as hostile, and I hope that is not the way my messages, or anyone else's here, came across. I commend you that you have taken an interest in the Qur'an, even with your misunderstanding it. I pray that you will find the truth that it contains, and I hope that your journey searching finds you peace. I've been practicing Islam (correctly) for only 4 months. Because of my past, I still have to shake off some of my delinquent character. I'm still on my mission to build my character as a true muslim, insha'allah. Please look past the exterior layer of Islam. Islam is a beautiful religion. Regardless of the negative attention it gets, it teaches peace, compassion, morality, love, mercy... it's just plain beautiful, dude. The Quran and Sunnah are what I would like to call, our instructions manual. We are convinced to be muslim because we believe it explains the meaning of life.

 

[ummAbdillah]

In the Quran and the Bible there are of course true scientific facts. They reflect the science that was known at the time and they have nothing to do with divine inspiration. There must be more scientific facts in the Quran as it is only 1400 years old as compared with the Bible.

salaam
Do you mind telling us what the "scientific facts" of the bible are?
eace:

 

[azim]

Azim

In the Quran and the Bible there are of course true scientific facts. They reflect the science that was known at the time and they have nothing to do with divine inspiration. There must be more scientific facts in the Quran as it is only 1400 years old as compared with the Bible.

I disagree with this statement. The science of the 6th century sometimes went completey against what the Quran said. For example, the Pagans believed that the sky rested on the mountains, in the Quran, Allah says: -

"He has created the heavens without any pillars that you see" 31:10.

This corrective manner of the Quran is common and I can cite other examples if you'd like to. If the Quran reflected the science of the time, then why should it argue against it in some lines?

Do you mean that separating the earth from heaven, is scientific thinking? The first pagan religions had a very anthropomorphic view of God and they saw God like a man who pushes apart the element of his creation with his hands.

To be honest, I'm not sure what you mean by God being antropomorphic. For example, Surah Ikhlaas very clearly tells us that God is nothing like mankind, and if he is described has having 'hands' then we should never imagine his 'hands' to be anything like ours.

I admit that i cannot explain the smoke from verse 11. Even if it were an amazing scientific insight (supposing it isn't a sheer coincidence) it won't explain away the many other unscientific verses.

You have already stated that 'creation from clay' as supposedly unscientific, however it is not unscientific, simply not scientifically provable. It is lies in between.

For example, it says Jinn are made from smokeless fire. If we contemplate the idea of Jinn, and imagine fire which does not give off heat nor light, how would be aware of its prescence?

In the same way, clay, talks perhaps about our basic compound. Afterall, arent we just water and dust?

PS: I'd like to apologise if in earlier posts I have been offensive or rude. I was simply retaliating to what I perceived to be an attitude of arrogrance and disrespect. I much prefer debating issues in more friendly way, which I hope we can continue. I apologise once again, and hope you excuse on account of my youthful exuberance.

Peace.

 

[MuslimaH~SistaH]

I like the Thread,Manshallah!

 

[azim]

Those books are not recognized as inspired scriptures. They are called apocrypha.

I'm gonna have to pick on that statement. First of all, and correct me if I'm wrong, nowhere have I read anywhere that any of the four gospels were inspired by the Holy Ghost. On top of that, we don't even know who the authors of the 4 Gopsels are. The names are in no way proof they were in fact who they say they were.

The Gospels are very similar to the hadith muslims use, however I can assure you that in no way would the Gospels every be accepted as even 'daif' hadith, they would completely be ignored.

Infact, how trustworthy are they? For example, lets look at one of Matthew's verses.

In Matthew 2:15 he says: -

"and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son."

The last segment "Out of Egypt have I called my son" is from the Old Testament (Hosea 11:1), Matthew uses it to imply Jesus' divinity, however, if we look at the verse quoted: -

"When Israel was a child I loved him, out of Egypt I called my son, The more I called them, the farther they went from me, Sacrificing to the Baals and burning incense to idols."

How trustworthy is he! Intentionally playing with scripture like that.

I understand you've made the claim since the Bible is inspired by God, rather then written by it, human short-comings are expected and not denied. Yet, when the very autors from who you derive your knowledge are called in question, how will you explain it?

PS: We had someone on this forum who used to worship Baal. Weird. Wonder where he is? :rollseyes

 

[mansio]

Azim

Christians say that the Gospels are inspired by God (call it the Holy Ghost if you like) as Muslims say the Quran is the very Word of God.
Both statements have to be accepted by faith.
I'm surprised that you have never heard of the Bible being inspired. Millions of Christian pages are just a few clicks away from your keyboard.

University scholars who are researching the Quran have some ideas as who could have written it, but as precise historical proofs are missing they can only have guesses.
It is the same with the Gospels although scholars have more clues. All we know is that the author of Matthew is a Jewish convert, the author of Mark could be the John Mark mentioned in the NT, the author of Luke is a pagan convert who could be Luke, a companion of Paul, and the author of John is unknown.
The Gospels are not historical reports but religious books written to spread a message (the meaning of "gospel" in Greek).

When I said the Bible is inspired by God I was of course refering to the beliefs of Jews and Christians.
I personally believe that all revelations are man-made, until of course someone gives me proofs of a divine origin.

 

[mansio]

Shudn'thave (re your post #74)

You shouldn't have said that I haven't read the Quran. I've read it a couple of times those last years but I must reckon I got quickly bored with it.
Now I have decided to have a more serious look at it.
I'm reading it again. Everytime I come across an interesting verse I open my Arabic Quran and write down the verse in Arabic. Then I compare the Arabic with various English, French or German translations when there is a need for better understanding. Of course it is a rather slow process but it helps me with literary Arabic at the same time.

All the things in the Quran that you are telling me are the basics one finds in most religious scriptures. What is your purpose in saying that? That there is no originality in the Quran? I think I knew it already.

No historian believes in the existence of Adam. Could you tell me for example, where and when he is supposed to have lived?
I'm still waiting for one scientific miracle in the Quran. I said "in the Quran" not in far-fetched apological links.

 

[azim]

Azim

Christians say that the Gospels are inspired by God (call it the Holy Ghost if you like) as Muslims say the Quran is the very Word of God.
Both statements have to be accepted by faith.

I think you missed the point I was making. The four gospels never claimed to be 'inspired' by God, the Holy Ghost or anyone else. Matthew even says he is only writing the books since he has a better understanding (we have to tke his word for it), not that he was inspired by God.

University scholars who are researching the Quran have some ideas as who could have written it, but as precise historical proofs are missing they can only have guesses.

That's nice, maybe they'll come to realise it was written by Allah.

It is the same with the Gospels although scholars have more clues. All we know is that the author of Matthew is a Jewish convert, the author of Mark could be the John Mark mentioned in the NT, the author of Luke is a pagan convert who could be Luke, a companion of Paul, and the author of John is unknown.

It isn't really the same with the Gospels since WE KNOW the source of the Quran, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in Arabia 1400 years ago. The authors of the Gospel are much more ambiguous.

When I said the Bible is inspired by God I was of course refering to the beliefs of Jews and Christians. I personally believe that all revelations are man-made, until of course someone gives me proofs of a divine origin.

That doesn't really make sense. Also, why don't you believe Islam was 'inspired' by God when it is truer to the beliefs 'inspired' to Moses, Abraham, Jesus etc...

Your beliefs don't really make sense to me. You're saying you believe in God but not his revelations? Or do you not believe in God? Would you class yourself as a Christian?

 

[mansio]

Azim

As a Muslim you are in no position to decide if the New Testament is inspired by God or not.
Let the Christians decide by themselves.

What do you mean by the Quran is truer to the beliefs of Moses, Abraham and Jesus as they are described in the Bible ?
As Muslims believe the Bible is corrupted we don't even know what is compared with the Quran.
Adam is a myth and has never existed. So you imply that if the Quran gives more or better details on an imaginary being the Quran is truer than the Bible.

 

[sumay28]

Azim

As a Muslim you are in no position to decide if the New Testament is inspired by God or not.
Let the Christians decide by themselves.

What do you mean by the Quran is truer to the beliefs of Moses, Abraham and Jesus as they are described in the Bible ?
As Muslims believe the Bible is corrupted we don't even know what is compared with the Quran.
Adam is a myth and has never existed. So you imply that if the Quran gives more or better details on an imaginary being the Quran is truer than the Bible.

Subhanallah! A myth! :crickey: I really don't understand this "inspired by God" thing. How is God going to "inspire" someone to quote God and make him seem imperfect? How is he going to create the Universe and "change his mind" and "regret"? :astagfiru

 

[sumay28]

Masha allah Muhammad.

Mansio, buddy, I don't know what to tell ya. It's very clear you're here to cause us atheritis for makin' us type up all of this stuff, dude.. It's very clear that you are an elephant sitting very comfortably under a falling tree, and only God can push you out of the way. All we can do is make du'a for you that allah removes the veil over your heart. You are just someone that is increasing our faith, in the fact that Allah will guide whom he pleases. We see is something simple and clear as the truth, while at this time Allah is only allowing you to look through a stained glass.

 

[azim]

Azim

As a Muslim you are in no position to decide if the New Testament is inspired by God or not. Let the Christians decide by themselves.

Two things to point out here.

1)The authors of the NT gospels NEVER CLAIMED TO BE INSPIRED - EVER! FULL STOP! It's FACT, not my opinion. I have stated this twice and failed to grasp the concept of a FACT.

2)It's hyprocritical to say 'don't talk about Christian holy books, you're a muslim' then to come here and talk about Muslim scripture, without being muslim. Wallahi, I have no problem with you coming here and talking about the Quran, but why the double standards? Again, NOT RHETORICAL. Answer my question.

 

[afriend]

Salams..I think It is Allah's will what happens to the non-muslims, those deserving of guidance will recieve guidance..........That's all I can say!

 

[sumay28]

Anyway, the muslims do not deny The Bible as being the word of God. Only it went through a game of "telephone" with the translation, and has been altered for man's own devious benefit.

 

[safwana]

very easy? well in our religion CHRISTianity hardships is one of those things that we are to deal with... I guess may I ask have yall ever had hardships I mean you said it is very easy...?

in islam there is a solution to all your problems that is why practicing islam is easy realigion to follow.

 

[mansio]

Azim

Christians have decided that all scriptures are inspired by God and that Jesus is God.
You and me do not agree with their opinion. What we think is one thing and what they think is another. We think what we think and they think what they think. My God I'm now speaking in Quranic style !

 

[azim]

Azim

Christians have decided that all scriptures are inspired by God and that Jesus is God.
You and me do not agree with their opinion. What we think is one thing and what they think is another. We think what we think and they think what they think. My God I'm now speaking in Quranic style !

You said earlier : -

Of course if the Quran were from men as the Bible is (remember the Bible is not considered as the very word of God but as inspired by God)

Is this your opinion or you stating the opinion of others?