What's up with Somalia?

[Muhaba]

I don't agree with this, I think that's where the problem lies.. People who worship on the cusp and with no understanding!

Our job is to preach and try to make the message of Islam reach every person. Whether they accept Islam and whether they follow it fully is not our responsibility.

As Allah told his Prophet Muhammad (SAW) that his job was just conveying the message of Islam, likewise the followers of Muhammad (SAW)'s job is only to convey the message of Islam.

 

[جوري]

Please don't be so discouraging.

It is called being realistic not discouraging, you yourself conceded the fact that the prophet was in their midst. There's no greater testimony than that.
Look around you, this forum alone with its Quranists, and various jama3at, those who pray to the dead and you might actually consider the gravity of the problem. When a person who doesn't think Hadith has any relevance and just enters Islam then goes preaching that.. and then human right watch come and tell us how we're discriminating against ahamdis or bahis the 'ONLY PEACEFUL & TRUE SECTS OF ISLAM' exactly how well that preaching worked if not actually count against you on the day of recompense.

Our job is to preach and try to make the message of Islam reach every person. Whether they accept Islam and whether they follow it fully is not our responsibility.

As Allah told his Prophet Muhammad (SAW) that his job was just conveying the message of Islam, likewise the followers of Muhammad (SAW)'s job is only to convey the message of Islam.

We're to convey the message in the best manner possible and that's all we can do:

Innaka la tahdee man ahbabta walakinna Allaha yahdee man yashao wahuwa aAAlamu bialmuhtadeena​

28:56 It is true thou wilt not be able to guide every one, whom thou lovest; but Allah guides those whom He will and He knows best those who receive


and those of us who have no business preaching then should sit it out and let those who are actually trained and know what they're doing take charge!


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[Muhaba]

^I am not asking hadith deniers or ahmadis to preach. my post is referred to true muslims who have true islamic beliefs and there are many. even if their knowledge is less, they can preach, by getting leaflets from muslim organzations and then distributing them.

ahmadies are already preaching so it's not like these posts are going to make them preach more. i'm sure there are many of them already planning to use the olympics to spread their false beliefs. but many of the true muslims are not. we have many scholars who preach but then do they tell their students to preach as well? i think this is where we are lacking.

when you post such stuff, you're discouraging true muslims on here from preaching. they are the ones who might accept wht you say and sit at home instead of doing something. and what will happen? the ahmadis and hadith deniers (who unfortunately are more dedicated to their causes) will go and preach wrong stuff.

what you say is absolutely unrealistic and it is unislamic too. Allah told us to preach. He didn't say, preach when you have 100% knowledge but until then don't you dare preach. no, he told us to preach.

there are many examples from hadith and Quran where a person preached as soon as he became Muslim.

so even a new convert can preach, simply telling others about the Islamic belief. while a born (true) muslim can do so more.

 

[Muhaba]

and those of us who have no business preaching then should sit it out and let those who are actually trained and know what they're doing take charge!


[/INDENT]

preaching is every Muslim's business. getting some leaflets and distributing them is no difficult task. why are you trying to stop ppl from preaching?

 

[جوري]

^I am not asking hadith deniers or ahmadis to preach. my post is referred to true muslims who have true islamic beliefs and there are many. even if their knowledge is less, they can preach, by getting leaflets from muslim organzations and then distributing them.

ahmadies are already preaching so it's not like these posts are going to make them preach more. i'm sure there are many of them already planning to use the olympics to spread their false beliefs. but many of the true muslims are not. we have many scholars who preach but then do they tell their students to preach as well? i think this is where we are lacking.

when you post such stuff, you're discouraging true muslims on here from preaching. they are the ones who might accept wht you say and sit at home instead of doing something. and what will happen? the ahmadis and hadith deniers (who unfortunately are more dedicated to their causes) will go and preach wrong stuff.

what you say is absolutely unrealistic and it is unislamic too. Allah told us to preach. He didn't say, preach when you have 100% knowledge but until then don't you dare preach. no, he told us to preach.

there are many examples from hadith and Quran where a person preached as soon as he became Muslim.

so even a new convert can preach, simply telling others about the Islamic belief. while a born (true) muslim can do so more.

How do you distinguish true from false when everyone on board thinks they're true and others are false? In fact if you read my post I've clearly stated that folks who are knowledgeable and trained and there are institutions that train people in da3wa should offer da3wah. You have folks on this forum making halal what is haram, speaking for the whole bullying others with statements like God doesn't care for this, and he doesn't care for that, then inviting others to their blogs to preach their brand of Islam as they understand it. You think it is ok to perpetuate ignorance simply because it is our duty to preach?
I never said that you need to know 100% this to do this or that, what I said can be easily construed as to seek knowledge from people of knowledge not every Tom, dick and Harry simply because they sport the label of Islam.
A British woman the other day said we should remain divided because if God wanted us united he wouldn't say this in the Quran:
Hud (The Prophet Hud)[11:118] [RECITE]

[top] [next match]​

Walaw shaa rabbuka lajaAAala alnnasa ommatan wahidatan wala yazaloona mukhtalifeena​

11:118 If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one people: but they will not cease to dispute.

Imagine that.. everyone is a scholar of Islam even kaffirs.

People did what they were designed to do back then. Some people were promised paradise though they didn't not offer one prayer. Some Sahabis died not even having memorized the Quran like Khalid ibn ilwaleed.
I am asking for people to do what they were designed to do, perfect their deen, not take their deen from the mouths of Charlatans and to more importantly learn the difference else you'll end up with the problem we've now.. The best Muslim is he who learns and teaches.. Not he who converts and goes out to convert..


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[جوري]

preaching is every Muslim's business. getting some leaflets and distributing them is no difficult task. why are you trying to stop ppl from preaching?

Leaflets and passing out the Quran isn't a problem, houda comes from Allah swt anyway-- the other stuff that takes place and takes place on this very forum however is a problem. We can't catch everything and correct it, since not everything is done in an honest, transparent & open fashion.
The end result of what you otherwise propose is a minority maneuvering the majority into falsehood or genocide. The situation in Syria with a small sphere of Alwaites exterminating Sunnis is a perfect example of what can go wrong!

 

[Muhaba]

i think you're making an issue for no reason.

i didn't ask ppl to go indepth into preaching. you can't preach to nonmuslims that way anyway. you can't tell them about halal and haram until they have accepted islam. all you can do is tell them about the basic faith of Islam, which is that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

you can also then tell them about the Day of Judgment, accounting, hell and heaven and the pillars of faith which are written in the Quran and there is no disagreement about those things.

only when you go indepth in islamic commandments do you have disagreements. but you don't preach those to unbelievers anyway. Aisha (R) said that if you told unbelievers not to drink wine, they would say 'we will never stop drinking wine' and if you told them not to do zina they would say 'we will never stop doing zina'. but you preach about the oneness of Allah to the unbeliever at the start.

and any Muslim can do that.

and they can get leaflets and distribute them. but even if they don't want to do that, they can print out the translation of Surah Al-Ikhlas and give it out.

there are many true muslims here who know the Islamic belief well and they can do this very well.

About that statement that if Allah willed He could have made all people one, it means that He would have made them one involuntarily instead of giving them a choice. we can't say that since Allah didn't make all people one, we should remain divided. nor can we say that since Allah didn't make all people believers, we shouldn't preach. because then there would be no point in Allah's sending Prophets and Holy Books.

 

[Cabdullahi]

 

[جوري]

i think you're making an issue for no reason.

i didn't ask ppl to go indepth into preaching. you can't preach to nonmuslims that way anyway. you can't tell them about halal and haram until they have accepted islam. all you can do is tell them about the basic faith of Islam, which is that there is no God but Allah and Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.

you can also then tell them about the Day of Judgment, accounting, hell and heaven and the pillars of faith which are written in the Quran and there is no disagreement about those things.

only when you go indepth in islamic commandments do you have disagreements. but you don't preach those to unbelievers anyway. Aisha (R) said that if you told unbelievers not to drink wine, they would say 'we will never stop drinking wine' and if you told them not to do zina they would say 'we will never stop doing zina'. but you preach about the oneness of Allah to the unbeliever at the start.

and any Muslim can do that.

and they can get leaflets and distribute them. but even if they don't want to do that, they can print out the translation of Surah Al-Ikhlas and give it out.

there are many true muslims here who know the Islamic belief well and they can do this very well.

About that statement that if Allah willed He could have made all people one, it means that He would have made them one involuntarily instead of giving them a choice. we can't say that since Allah didn't make all people one, we should remain divided. nor can we say that since Allah didn't make all people believers, we shouldn't preach. because then there would be no point in Allah's sending Prophets and Holy Books.

I am not making an issue and God as my witness I don't hold any ill feelings toward what transpired. We're coming from two different places with different experiences. Nor have I argued against what you're proclaiming to be 'preaching'. Leading by example and passing out leaflets and Quran isn't preaching in my vocabulary. It is the bare minimum one can do .. I am talking about what comes after A. and Most people aren't well versed in B. & that's what I have a problem with.
Sis.. it is an open forum made for debates .. everyone is free to present their views without hard feelings..
But the message we put here reverberates across time and space.. and I'll only put down what I believe I can go to my grave being comfortable with.
It would be dishonest for a an ophthalmologist to behave as an orthopedic surgeon simply for holding an MD. We should give our best with what we were designed to do.

 

[Muhaba]

Leaflets and passing out the Quran isn't a problem, houda comes from Allah swt anyway-- the other stuff that takes place and takes place on this very forum however is a problem. We can't catch everything and correct it, since not everything is done in an honest, transparent & open fashion.
The end result of what you otherwise propose is a minority maneuvering the majority into falsehood or genocide. The situation in Syria with a small sphere of Alwaites exterminating Sunnis is a perfect example of what can go wrong!

no, actually if the sunni muslims of syria had preached to the minority aliwites and other sects/religions, what is happeneing wouldn't have happened.

it wasn't too difficult for them to preach. but ppl today don't preach to even their friends or neighbors or colleagues which wasn't such a difficult thing to do. in syria, there was no need to give out leaflets about the islamic faith and the wrongness of aliwite faith. all that needed to be done was one-to-one preaching to one's best ability or sending letters to known aliwites. but did the syrians do that?

no, instead the sunnis themselves became astray, hardly living like Muslims. they were doing just about every unislamic thing.

And so Allah's anger came on them for more reason than one, but not preaching was one main reason.

Surah Al-Araf, verses 163 - 166:
And ask them about the town that was by the sea - when they transgressed in [the matter of] the sabbath - when their fish came to them openly on their sabbath day, and the day they had no sabbath they did not come to them. Thus did We give them trial because they were defiantly disobedient.

And when a community among them said, "Why do you advise [or warn] a people whom Allah is [about] to destroy or to punish with a severe punishment?" they [the advisors] said, "To be absolved before your Lord and perhaps they may fear Him."

And when they forgot that by which they had been reminded, We saved those who had forbidden evil and seized those who wronged, with a wretched punishment, because they were defiantly disobeying.

So when they were insolent about that which they had been forbidden, We said to them, "Be apes, despised."

 

[جوري]

no, actually if the sunni muslims of syria had preached to the minority aliwites and other sects/religions, what is happeneing wouldn't have happened.

Let me stop you right there and tell you, that it isn't true al7mdullilah Syria is a great place to pursue Islamic scholarship. The Alwaites prefer to close the door on themselves and be isolated from the infidels-- when people protested earlier with the other 'Assad' he exterminated 20,000 of them without interference. What is happening isn't a first time event and it is unfair to say because they didn't try.
Unfortunately victory and truth sometimes comes paid for in blood.

 

[Muhaba]

I am not making an issue and God as my witness I don't hold any ill feelings toward what transpired. We're coming from two different places with different experiences. Nor have I argued against what you're proclaiming to be 'preaching'. Leading by example and passing out leaflets and Quran isn't preaching in my vocabulary. It is the bare minimum one can do .. I am talking about what comes after A. and Most people aren't well versed in B. & that's what I have a problem with.
Sis.. it is an open forum made for debates .. everyone is free to present their views without hard feelings..
But the message we put here reverberates across time and space.. and I'll only put down what I believe I can go to my grave being comfortable with.
It would be dishonest for a an ophthalmologist to behave as an orthopedic surgeon simply for holding an MD. We should give our best with what we were designed to do.

I am sure there are many true sincere Muslims who would like to give out some leaflets. they don't have to worry about anything after distributing leaflets because 1. it will be a brief contact on the street. 2. they can refer the recepient to a website such as islam-guide.com or wamy.co.uk or the website of the organization where they got the leaflets.

insha-Allah when Muslims realize that they have the duty of spreading Islam, they themselves will try to learn more. And Allah puts barakah in the work. At the time of the Prophet (SAW) muslims were few, but did they say, we are just a few, we can't do this? no, they tried and Allah helped them with angels. so now, if muslims go and try to preach to the olympics-goers, why should we not expect that Allah will send His help even for preaching?

 

[Muhaba]

Let me stop you right there and tell you, that it isn't true al7mdullilah Syria is a great place to pursue Islamic scholarship. The Alwaites prefer to close the door on themselves and be isolated from the infidels-- when people protested earlier with the other 'Assad' he exterminated 20,000 of them without interference. What is happening isn't a first time event and it is unfair to say because they didn't try.
Unfortunately victory and truth sometimes comes paid for in blood.

I lived there long enough to know what kind of place it is what kind of ppl are there. lately they were living like nonmuslims, so why should Allah help them? it is a well-known fact acknowledged by scholars and proven by history that when Muslims leave the Quran and go after worldly aims, they go into trouble, even trouble at the hands of cruel rulers. And God's punishment comes to Muslims if they don't preach, even if they otherwise practice Islam.

 

[Muhaba]

Surah Al-Asr' (chapter 103 of the Quran)

By time,
Indeed, mankind is in loss,
Except for those who have believed and done righteous deeds and advised each other to truth and advised each other to patience.

 

[جوري]

I lived there long enough to know what kind of place it is what kind of ppl are there. lately they were living like nonmuslims, so why should Allah help them? it is a well-known fact acknowledged by scholars and proven by history that when Muslims leave the Quran and go after worldly aims, they go into trouble, even trouble at the hands of cruel rulers. And God's punishment comes to Muslims if they don't preach, even if they otherwise practice Islam.

This reminds me of the the story of the two young men who met each other around fajr, one returning home from prayer and the other from a night club... each one of them thinking the other did as he.

 

[Muhaba]

yes so you're now directly attacking me?

from your posts it's obvious that you don't want ppl to preach. WAMY is an organizations with many scholars and they too are telling common people to preach. why are they not worried about the same thing you're worried about?

truth is that what you say is unislamic, because Allah ordered us in the Quran and through His Prophet (SAW) that we muslims should preach. we have no excuse for not preaching.

when you say, those who can't should sit at home you're going against the teachings of Muhammad (SAW). the right thing for you to say was: those who can, should preach. and those who can't should learn so they are able. and you should be encouraging even those unlearned ones to get leaflets and distribute them.

I am sad to see that you are so much against preaching. all your posts are just excuses. you don't want muslims to preach. that only leaves the wrong sects/religions to do their work, because they will be doing it anyway. your posts will only stop true sincere muslims from doing what they can do so well. ppl like you will get the true muslims out of the way so the wrong ones can do their job without obstacles. and the millions will not get the true message of islam but will get the wrong message.

 

[Abz2000]

wow
this is abt somalia lol
please, ladies, ladies, shhhhhhh, take a deep breath, relax. haha

lol stop it :exhausted

we shouldn't say, this would have been prevented if that had happened, Allah knows the unseen, i prefer to say "may have".

and sister lamees, u first said no point worrying abt stray sheep, now u both go into who should "preach" to them (sound's a bit like jehova's witnesses )

y don't we just agree that we should pass on what we know to be true, and leave the rest?

do we not know that the Prophet pbuh said:
"Balighu anni walau ayah
– Deliver from me even one sentence"

wot's the point disputing abt who should do it and who's not qualified, anyone can do that.
if we say, no, scholars only, then are we gonna fight abt who's a deviant scholar from a deviant school?
omg, we'll never finish, let's just do our part, and if we see blatant wrong, correct it.

it's sad to see it derailing, especially wen it's ur own thread lol

 

[جوري]

Can a Mod split this thread to leave Somalian problems separate from whether or not, and how we should preach. I think it is unfair to Somalians to always divert topics from their imminent threats and why such exist.. I doubt very much preaching has anything to do with it when this is their unfortunate reality:

 

[جوري]

yes so you're now directly attacking me?

from your posts it's obvious that you don't want ppl to preach. WAMY is an organizations with many scholars and they too are telling common people to preach. why are they not worried about the same thing you're worried about?

truth is that what you say is unislamic, because Allah ordered us in the Quran and through His Prophet (SAW) that we muslims should preach. we have no excuse for not preaching.

when you say, those who can't should sit at home you're going against the teachings of Muhammad (SAW). the right thing for you to say was: those who can, should preach. and those who can't should learn so they are able. and you should be encouraging even those unlearned ones to get leaflets and distribute them.

I am sad to see that you are so much against preaching. all your posts are just excuses. you don't want muslims to preach. that only leaves the wrong sects/religions to do their work, because they will be doing it anyway. your posts will only stop true sincere muslims from doing what they can do so well. ppl like you will get the true muslims out of the way so the wrong ones can do their job without obstacles. and the millions will not get the true message of islam but will get the wrong message.

please see posts number:
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-affairs/134313768-whats-up-somalia-2.html#post1527258
and
http://www.islamicboard.com/world-affairs/134313768-whats-up-somalia-2.html#post1527262

otherwise we're going around in circles and I would obviously appreciate if you'd quote me correctly rather than misconstrue what I have actually written. I don't recall telling people to sit at home. (not that there's anything wrong with that).
If you insult the people of Syria and state that Allah's punishments will befall them because they're sinners of late, you don't believe that is a blanket statement and take deeper offense at a parable rather than what you actually accused a population of?

 

[Muhaba]

May Allah help the Somalians. And Allah will, insha-Allah because He cares for all His creation. the somalians are a test for the Muslims.

on the one hand are the oil-rich muslims who have so much money they don't know how to spend it. on the other hand, the starving ppl of the world. Allah will ask the rich why they did nothing to help the worse-off.