What's wrong with Muslims?

[anatolian]

Allah says in the Quran that Allah does not change the condition of a people until they change their own condition (13:11). Here we understand that the first responsibles of our conditions (whatever they are) are ourselves. The rest is history, politics, conflicts etc..but the ultimate reason is our ownselves.

What should muslims do? We but must read, understand and live the noble Quran. Otherwise we have no option other than having corrupt “Islamic” societies and a corrupt Islamic society is the worst thing that can be on the planet. Other societies have their half true systems but since they dont have a as strong faith as we muslims have in our systems, they are more open to progress. However, we muslims have the full faith for the unchangable correctness of our system (because the real Islam is ) and thus are the most closed people for progress. And when we have that corrupt version, it inevitably results in this picture..Read this ayah;

3:103 “And hold fast by the covenant of Allah all together and be not disunited, and remember the favor of Allah on you when you were enemies, then He united your hearts so by His favor you became brethren; and you were on the brink of a pit of fire, then He saved you from it, thus does Allah make clear to you His communications that you may follow the right way.”

 

[xboxisdead]

Not with you, not unless you learn the meaning of "discussion".
Not unless you learn IQ is not a measure of your education but a measure of your "INTELLIGENCE"
Not unless you admit that you're wrong and women and men have pretty much the same IQ level.
Men are physically stronger, no doubt about that but that doesn't make them more intelligent.
Are you strong enough to admit when you're wrong ?
Why don't you show us then.

I admit it so what? Gender roles still applies. So what? You missed everything I said above. Completely. AHAHAH! And who cares of intelligences is not everything at all. There comes wisdom, understanding, reasoning, logic, comprehension, able to handle problems correctly, able to sacrifice one selfs to other, blah blah blah. Able to fight and in some cases by sword if a must for justice....the list goes on.

I will even admit this.

WOMEN ARE EVEN MORE SMARTER than men. So? It does not change anything.

Men still the head of the household, still the leader. The wife STILL HAVE TO OBEY her husband, men have important role to play. Masculinity need to be respected. Resources MUST BE PUT so boys can achieve good in academics and honestly intelligience of women in education and IQ did not bring much on the table. IN the end she still wants to go home and raise a family and have children and take sick leaves and the list goes on. More investment needed to put in education boys and men so they go out there and run the country the way they where created to do. Women need to be at home raising the children and bring new society at homes they way she was created to do. Kill feminist from the equation and if she wants to work she can as long as it does not interfer with her main role period and in addition does not make her more superior or better than her husband period

BECAUSE Allah (Subhanahu Wa Talaa) have called husbands by the title, "LORD" in the Qura'an to teach us the status of a husband. Do you honestly believe Allah does not know the nature of women?! Seriously!? That thinking in itself makes anyone a disbeliever on spot! Allah knows the nature of women and her intellect and her maturity level and her comprehension and and. You don't think it is easy for Allah to create one gender society of female and lesbianism and make it halal? Easily he could. But he did not. He created the male and the female and he assigned gender roles for that nature and warned us not to cross those boundaries. HE EVEN told us to marvel at the difference of the sexes! Allah want us to MARVEL AT THE DIFFERENCE of the sexes. So enough with your statistic it holds no grain of salt to me. By the way, women trying to fight against it is really trying to fight against Allah! I have full confidence not only will she fail but she will be humiliated in this world and in the afterlife..hellfire her abode. Anyone who wages war against Allah, Allah will wage war against him.

I do not care about IQ, intelligence, verbal communication skills she knows computer science and she can even be better than me in computer science and math and logistic and and and...in the end of it it all when it comes to marriage and husband, wife role...THE HUSBAND IS SUPERIOR over the wife. I am using the term superior because I am not shamed to label something that have the right to be labeled. She wants to become feminist which is what YOUR mental thinking breeds, she can be..she can fight and argue and blah blah blah..in the end...the husband superiority suppressed wife in a big jump. It is in the Qura'an and no one can change it. No one can define it. Problem is..YOU ARE REFUSING to accept it. You are throwing IQ and intelligence and something to indicate we are equal or in fact she is smarter and better...nope. Sorry. Human beings are too limited to the boundaries of black and white. The mere fact you are refusing to accept that...indicate with all my might talking to you is pointless.

LOTS OF NON-MUSLIM WOMEN WHO COULD EASILY be feminist...anti-male...fight for female supremacy blah blah and she have all the laws to help her do it (and the mere fact she needs help is even more reason why she is unfit to be a leader) ...but funny...after all of this...your OWN NON-MUSLIM women revert to Islam and become Muslim. In fact for every 4 or more non-Muslim women who convert to Islam, 1 non-Muslim man convert to Islam.

 

[Abz2000]

This somehow ended up on a different thread, it is a clear proof of the fact that criminal secularist Godless robbers are actually responsible for many of the problems that Muslims are enduring -

Oil rush: Scramble for Iraq's wealth

news/world/middle-east/oil-rush-scramble-for-iraqs-wealth-1711570.html

They were actually stealing AND robbing oil from iraq before mujahideen began to organise - using the entity which they call I.S.I.S as a strawman actually shows how dumbed down and conditioned to be duped his audience is.

East india company flag

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Flag of Donald Trump's backers

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i think inciting petrol bomb riots and looting of usurious banks and alcohol dealers in the streets of London, Paris, and New York would be an appropriate and just response since both exploiting and enslaving people via usury and selling alcohol which intoxicates people and debases them are both unlawful in a big way.

 

[xboxisdead]

This somehow ended up on a different thread, it is a clear proof of the fact that criminal secularist Godless robbers are actually responsible for many of the problems that Muslims are enduring - i think inciting riots and looting of usurious banks and alcohol dealers in the streets of London, Paris, and New York would be an appropriate and just response:

Oil rush: Scramble for Iraq's wealth

news/world/middle-east/oil-rush-scramble-for-iraqs-wealth-1711570.html

They were actually stealing AND robbing oil from iraq before mujahideen began to organise - using the entity which they call I.S.I.S as a strawman actually shows how dumbed down and conditioned to be duped his audience is.

East india company flag

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Flag of Donald Trump's backers

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[beleiver]

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This is another thing wrong with 'Muslims' many think this verse is saying music (all music) is from the devil...

And excite any of them whom thou canst with thy voice, and urge thy horse and foot against them, and be a partner in their wealth and children, and promise them. Satan promiseth them only to deceive.


















Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;


Have they not travelled in the land, and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind.

 

[Alamgir]

View attachment 6520
This is another thing wrong with 'Muslims' many think this verse is saying music (all music) is from the devil...

And excite any of them whom thou canst with thy voice, and urge thy horse and foot against them, and be a partner in their wealth and children, and promise them. Satan promiseth them only to deceive.


















Never sent We a messenger or a prophet before thee but when He recited (the message) Satan proposed (opposition) in respect of that which he recited thereof. But Allah abolisheth that which Satan proposeth. Then Allah establisheth His revelations. Allah is Knower, Wise;


Have they not travelled in the land, and have they hearts wherewith to feel and ears wherewith to hear? For indeed it is not the eyes that grow blind, but it is the hearts, which are within the bosoms, that grow blind.

All music is haram, end of story. No matter how much some of you musicians might cry and sulk, it's haram.

 

[xboxisdead]

All music is haram, end of story. No matter how much some of you musicians might cry and sulk, it's haram.

eheheh bingo! Like the prophet peace be upon him told us that it is impossible for the non-Muslim to do right and we have to do opposite of what they do.

Non-Muslims are broken...they are bend and defective and their paradise is this world! Allah (Subhanahu Wa talaa) will make them powerful, rich, etc They will be famous, they will invent things and so on...but when they die they will be punished in the grave and thrown in hellfire. So let them enjoy this temporarily world and boost their ego...the Muslims will have the last laugh and our laugh is eternity while their laugh here is temporarily but their cry and misery will be eternity in the afterlife.

 

[Raymann]

Men still the head of the household, still the leader. The wife STILL HAVE TO OBEY her husband, men have important role to play. Masculinity need to be respected. Resources MUST BE PUT so boys can achieve good in academics and honestly intelligience of women in education and IQ did not bring much on the table. IN the end she still wants to go home and raise a family and have children and take sick leaves and the list goes on. More investment needed to put in education boys and men so they go out there and run the country the way they where created to do. Women need to be at home raising the children and bring new society at homes they way she was created to do. Kill feminist from the equation and if she wants to work she can as long as it does not interfer with her main role period and in addition does not make her more superior or better than her husband period

It amazes me how you make a big deal about something that is not a big deal in western societies.
Gender roles have always existed and still do in our society. The difference with the Islamic world is that we are not limited nor forced into predefined roles for each gender.
Yes, the male is still the protector of the wife and family.
Yes, the male is still the household leader for the most part.
Yes, the male does the heavy work (house repairs, car repairs, heavy lifting, etc) while the female usually do the traditional female chores (cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, etc).
In recent time the roles can change a bit on an individual family case by case.
What happens if the female is the CEO of a big company and makes most of the money in the family?
What if she is the president of a country (Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel, Cristina Kirchner, etc) ?
Whatever the situation, it's not a big deal in our western society, we adjust on a case by case situation with ease because we don't have to comply with set in stones rigid rules.
Do you understand ? You are drowning in a glass of water.
Stop criticizing western society and concentrate on your own Islamic society which is the one straggling.
That's the problem with some Muslims like you, you keep hating everything that is different to your Islamic values.
If is not Islamic is evil, if is not Islamic is wrong, if is not Islamic is a sin.
If you cannot understand it just stay away and stop spending your life trying to create a fantasy evil empire in your head that does not exist.
The western society is not your problem, you are your problem.
Stop analyzing the problems of Western Society with your Islamic eyes.
Your don't understand the Western Society and want to fix it with rigid and outdated solutions that even Muslims are reluctant to use themselves ?
You're wasting your time.

 

[nosmarter]

I think the OP's question implies that being a predominantly Muslim nation is the cause of those nations having serious issues. But in my opinion, it's really the other way around. It seems to me that bronze age religions take hold more easily in countries where the problems of poverty, lack of education, and corruption already exist. As soon as the lot of the people improves, you see religion, particularly the fundamentalist kind, lose its influence.

 

[سيف الله]

Ill keep repeating it, Internet atheists are predictable, you've met one you've met them all.

Do try to do better internet atheist, the religion of 'new atheism' which you subscribe to is so passé.

Oh an hows your *cough* *cough* imaginary *cough* son keeping?

As an aside they do seem to say the same thing over and over again, I think we have to investigate the link between atheism and aspergers, I think the results would be interesting.

 

[xboxisdead]

It amazes me how you make a big deal about something that is not a big deal in western societies.
Gender roles have always existed and still do in our society. The difference with the Islamic world is that we are not limited nor forced into predefined roles for each gender.
Yes, the male is still the protector of the wife and family.
Yes, the male is still the household leader for the most part.
Yes, the male does the heavy work (house repairs, car repairs, heavy lifting, etc) while the female usually do the traditional female chores (cooking, cleaning, taking care of kids, etc).
In recent time the roles can change a bit on an individual family case by case.
What happens if the female is the CEO of a big company and makes most of the money in the family?
What if she is the president of a country (Margaret Thatcher, Angela Merkel, Cristina Kirchner, etc) ?
Whatever the situation, it's not a big deal in our western society, we adjust on a case by case situation with ease because we don't have to comply with set in stones rigid rules.
Do you understand ? You are drowning in a glass of water.
Stop criticizing western society and concentrate on your own Islamic society which is the one straggling.
That's the problem with some Muslims like you, you keep hating everything that is different to your Islamic values.
If is not Islamic is evil, if is not Islamic is wrong, if is not Islamic is a sin.
If you cannot understand it just stay away and stop spending your life trying to create a fantasy evil empire in your head that does not exist.
The western society is not your problem, you are your problem.
Stop analyzing the problems of Western Society with your Islamic eyes.
Your don't understand the Western Society and want to fix it with rigid and outdated solutions that even Muslims are reluctant to use themselves ?
You're wasting your time.

I am done with you. Here is what is the issue your nation this is coming from another Atheist mouth

This is coming from a non-Muslim WOMAN https://moneyish.com/heart/heres-the-latest-proof-that-marriage-is-dying/ Since it is coming from a woman and not a man I do hope you keep quiet about this. Had I been a woman you would agree 100% with everything I said. Your Western society is a failure. Doomed. I enjoy criticizing Western society and every time I see them make fool of themselves the more I am grinning with joy.

Here is another woman writing an article about marriage issue https://www.cnn.com/2015/04/07/opinions/costello-marriage-millennials/index.html


This s my favorite part of the sentence on the link below "Despite (or because of) the MGTOW movement, feminism creating greater equality, and the wealth of options for single people, the nature of marriage has changed.

This is a good thing.

No longer do women feel obligated to forgo an education, skip a career, and move directly from her father’s house to her husband’s house at age 21, like my Mom did." But at the expense of what that she got her independence?

In the end she goes out showing her hair, her body, she goes from men to men, women to women and she is a man more than a woman. While women embrace their independence and get higher degree, children, family suffer. You will be saying she can still be a good mother, wife and have a good job and degree.....she can never ever...give 100% the need for her family when she is busy interacting with stranger men and fulfilling her wordy desires and many marriages in your community end up in divorce. Isn't that over 80% of divorce are initiated by women in your nation? Don't your country have the highest suicide rate for men? Aren't boys failing miserably at school? Are't single mothers dressing their boys like little girls? What part of your Western society I want to look up too exactly? Please tell me.

https://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/marriage/marriage-is-dying-in-lower-class-america/

As to your statement if it not Islamic way then it is wrong, "YES" You see...Islam is not a culture. It is not man made culture and it is not set by rules for men by men. It is not defined by the person born with XY chromosome and defined by a person with male gentile period. It is not some form of man oppression designed to oppress women and give power to men!

NO! Islam is Allah's law and Allah knows the nature of every creation he created and he clearly told us the way to be in the right path and if we move astray from the road Allah have paved for us we will fail. Anything..not just Western...but ANYTHING ON EARTH not following Islamic way...not following Allah's law, not obeying Allah and his prophet and not submitting to Allah are doomed to failure and is wrong. Anyone. Western AND EVEN EASTERN (EVEN MUSLIM COUNTRIES ITSELF). It is not WEST VS East. It is not man vs woman. It is not black vs white. However it is something VS something though.

That something is truth VS LIE. Light VS darkness. Anyone who does anything outside Islam is in darkness. Is in misguidance. Anyone he dies in that state will die and be resurrected with no LIGHT on his heart and in the day of judgement when a person need to cross that bridge to enter paradise you need light to see. Because in the afterlife it is darker than darkness itself and there is no flashlight, no battery to light LED lights, no candles and there will be no SUN either. No MOON. NO planets, no trees, no mountains, no water, no sky, no stars, no gravity, no solar system...it is a different world all together and the only way you will be able to see is by your faith and that faith is exclusive in believing in Allah as the one and only true God and only he deserves to be worshipped. You have to believe in Allah, in all his prophets, his angels, in the afterlife, in the day of resurrection, paradise, hellfire, in the day of judgement and of course oneness of Allah and that Allah does not have a mother, father, son, daughter, family, etc. THEN you become Muslim and be a Muslim....THEN YOU AND ONLY THEN your way is the correct way. If you are anything BUT MUSLIM everything you do is wrong. EVERYTHING AND EVERYTHING.

So the western way is wrong not because it is West or because of culture..it is wrong because it does not believe in Allah (and I do not mean Western Muslim, I mean anyone western that is not Muslim) and it have not entered into Islam and because it did not enter Islam and actually follow Islam correctly (like we Muslims should be doing) it will never do anything right...ever. Including family, divorce and relationship. And you know what? The same can be said to us. The more we go astray from the true the path the more we be like you...the more we will be humiliated worse than you.

P.S "By the way, you said roles change in circumstances..in Islam roles do not change in circumstances. The roles are defined and set. Men are providers and protectors. If a situation arises where he is suffering and unable to fulfill his role...it is obligation for all of us Muslim brothers out there to help him fulfill his role. Why are we failing? Because we are not united as one. Because we don't care about our brothers. Because if we see a man with five kids and a wife and is unemployed and is wife is forced to work and make money....and provide for the family we don't stop this..and say no..he should be going and providing and help him. THIS IS one of the many reasons what is wrong with Muslims. I can list you many pages of what is wrong with us and all of them is we been astray from path of Allah. Everything is because we looked up AT YOU...the Atheist and non-Muslims as role models. Not the prophet peace be upon him and not working together as Muslims as one unit. This is our problem."

 

[Raymann]

Everyone is just as it sounds, everyone. Even so called "Muslim" countries consider it okay to attack people just for being religious. It's not right.

GENERALIZING is a dangerous practice, that's what ISIS and Al Qaeda do, If the attack came from a Secular country (USA), we'll assume all secular countries are responsible (that's most American countries and most of Europe.
Should I blame all Muslims for your GENERALIZATION ? or just YOU AND ONLY YOU ?

You guys are the ones who vote for your leaders, so it has everything to do with you. The solution to point number 3 is simple, vote for leaders who don't want to wage war against us.

Are you serious ? If a political party holds 40 % of the votes and two other parties 30% each.Can you blame 100% of the population for electing the president?Again blaming 100% would be GENERALIZING which is one of your shameful practices.

Yes, you attack one of us you have attacked all of us. Have you learnt anything from history?

GENERALIZING Again.

We have spoken out against what those groups do dozens of times, but many of you are deaf, dumb and blind so no matter what we do, you won't notice it.

Most of the Muslims I heard use similar excuses:
What they do is not in the Quran nor any religious scriptures, therefore they're not real Muslims.
Is that what you think?
I said if before, they pray 5 times a day, they memorize the Quran, and they follow it to the best of their knowledge.
Who are you or anyone else to judge who is a real Muslim?

Many of them aren't religious, this myth has been disproved numerous times. Stop barking without knowing the facts. I'll recommend this playlist to get you started on your journey of getting an education:

Myth ? Is that what you call it ? The most popular ones are religious (ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, etc). Do you think that a well trained BS artist can take the blame away? Wrong.
The fact is that those groups use religion as their motive. They say it, they prove it every time they can, they admit it.
Wake up and face the truth, even if it hurts. It's not your fault anyway, why getting so defensive ?
Even if they are MISINTERPRETING the Quran, they still following their own interpretation of it.

Country or not, Israel has no right to exist because most of it's people are not native to the area, and it actively oppresses the native population (the Palestinians). If you want the Jews to have their own country, allot them some land from your own territory, not ours.

If we go back in time we could establish that Islam started in Saudi Arabia and expanded by INVADING all the countries around it.Should all those countries claim independence from Islamic countries. Too late, they're now majority Muslims.
Should the 12 million Christians left in Egypt form an independent country ?They were there way before Islam existed.
Not so easy, is it?

 

[Abz2000]

No longer do women feel obligated to forgo an education, skip a career, and move directly from her father’s house to her husband’s house at age 21, like my Mom did." But at the expense of what that she got her independence?

It is useful to make it clear that a woman is normally allowed to get an education and pursue a career as long as her actions and circumstances are within the bounds of Allah :swt: and she is at no risk of becoming prey to haram and those in whose hearts is a disease (those addicted to haraam actions).

This reality becomes self-apparent when you have to demand that female doctors and midwives be present at the birth of your children and face an uphill struggle in getting it.

When you seek female private teachers for your growing daughters and face struggles finding them.

And in many other situations.

The problem is not girls studying and pursuing a lawful career - the problem is the lack of Islamic communities where both males and females are able to flourish without fear of being violated by those who reject Allah :swt: , by the munaafiqeen, and by those in whose hearts is a disease - due to the fact that tough Islamic laws are not implemented.

So the western way is wrong not because it is West or because of culture..it is wrong because it is not Muslim and because it is not Muslim it will never do anything right...ever. Including family, divorce and relationship.

Is there a legal definition of "west" or is it a mirage?

 

[xboxisdead]

It is useful to make it clear that a woman is normally allowed to get an education and pursue a career as long as her actions and circumstances are within the bounds of Allah :swt: and she is at no risk of becoming prey to haram and those in whose hearts is a disease (those addicted to haraam actions).

This reality becomes self-apparent when you have to demand that female doctors and midwives be present at the birth of your children and face an uphill struggle in getting it.

When you seek female private teachers for your growing daughters and face struggles finding them.

And in many other situations.

The problem is not girls studying and pursuing a lawful career - the problem is the lack of Islamic communities where both males and females are able to flourish without fear of being violated by those who reject Allah :swt: , the munaafiqeen, and those in whose hearts is a disease - due to the fact that tough Islamic laws are not implemented.









Is there a legal definition of "west" or is it a mirage?

Exactly at the first point. Not issue with female getting education as long as it does not cross boundaries and those boundaries can only be determined if you are Muslim and obey Allah and his messenger. The problem is that the non-Muslims have no boundaries and they cross all bounds and that is because they are non-Muslim and thus everything they do is wrong.

As for your question concerning the definition of "West" it is a mirage.

There is no such thing as West or East. All a mirage. The situation would have easily been reversed. In the end..it is Earth. And Earth is property of Allah.

 

[Zafran]

All music is haram, end of story. No matter how much some of you musicians might cry and sulk, it's haram.

Not necessarily.....

 

[xboxisdead]

Not necessarily.....

anything that uses string and blowing with holes on them and using air to make musical instruments to produce notes...those are forbidden. Singing female voices is also forbidden.

 

[Zafran]

I think the OP's question implies that being a predominantly Muslim nation is the cause of those nations having serious issues. But in my opinion, it's really the other way around. It seems to me that bronze age religions take hold more easily in countries where the problems of poverty, lack of education, and corruption already exist. As soon as the lot of the people improves, you see religion, particularly the fundamentalist kind, lose its influence.

Like the US........on a serious note religion isn't going anywhere its actually rising and will continue to do so whilst atheism does not hold for long unless you regard Bolshevik Russia and China as great examples of lack of religions (although Orthodox Christianity is back in Russia). The west has a specific history with western Christianity which led to the destruction of christian society thanks to the reformation and enlightenment right into modernity. The Muslims have a very different history of colonialism and the making of new states based on colonial lines, dictators and absolute monarchist would use harsh power to keep there new found nation states alive given by there masters.- of course Muslims share a similar history to most places including china and south america.

The Kamalist and now the Assads (secularist) are on shaky grounds once again. So we'll see what happens but one thing is for certain liberalism isn't exactly the answer especially looking at Trump, Brexit and the rise of the far right in Europe - its also on shaky grounds.

- - - Updated - - -

anything that uses string and blowing with holes on them and using air to make musical instruments to produce notes...those are forbidden. Singing female voices is also forbidden.

according to some scholars others had a different opinion like Al Nablusi, Ibn Hazm, Shawkani, al Ghazzali etc - there is an entire thread on this and the salafis got angry with it.

 

[Alamgir]

Not necessarily.....

Asalamu Alaikum

Yes necessarily.

You guys are so annoying, music is haram, end of story. Some scholars permit percussion instruments so long as certain conditions are met, but that's it.

- - - Updated - - -

according to some scholars others had a different opinion like Al Nablusi, Ibn Hazm, Shawkani, al Ghazzali etc

The four Imam's, Ibn Kathir, At Tabari, Imam Bukhari, Imam Muslim, etc, almost all of the major scholars considered (and still consider) music to be haram. The number of scholars that permit music are so minuscule in number that their opinion pretty much becomes irrelevant.

 

[Zafran]

Asalamu Alaikum

Yes necessarily.

You guys are so annoying, music is haram, end of story. Some scholars permit percussion instruments so long as certain conditions are met, but that's it.

Your original post was wrong and so is this one - there are plenty of famous minority opinions on music.

 

[Alamgir]

Your original post was wrong and so is this one - there are plenty of famous minority opinions on music.

No it's not, as stated before, they are only a handful and as a result their opinion is pretty much irrelevant.