lolwatever
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someone who i think knows one of the certification ppl... i think.
but someone pls tell me sumfn abt the last line if they know....:X
oh these are hard times.
Which cheese is Halal?
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British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | vBulletin 4 php 8.0 patch
someone who i think knows one of the certification ppl... i think.
but someone pls tell me sumfn abt the last line if they know....:X
oh these are hard times.
Malaikah
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By the way... you can get vegetarian cheese... if the one you get isn't halal just look for other ones...
OR... if pizza means that much too you... the article I posted showed that there are two opinions on the matter of whether rennet is halal or not...if you want, just look up into deeper to see if you think the halal opinion is worth following...
lolwatever
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By the way... you can get vegetarian cheese... if the one you get isn't halal just look for other ones...
OR... if pizza means that much too you... the article I posted showed that there are two opinions on the matter of whether rennet is halal or not...if you want, just look up into deeper to see if you think the halal opinion is worth following...
oh i don't know :S, looks like i'll have to read those articles (cant rem if i ever even read em :hiding
i can swear i remember the farm lady made cheese straight outat cow milk infront of my eyes.... ! y cant they stick to that
ffended: who cares if it takes 3 years 2 produce lol
MinAhlilHadeeth
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:salamext:
How do you know if the halal certificate in any place is genuine? Even if it was genuine that would probably cover the meat, as most Muslims don't know there can be haram cheese. Better stay away from pizzerias then.:-\
How do you know if the halal certificate in any place is genuine? Even if it was genuine that would probably cover the meat, as most Muslims don't know there can be haram cheese. Better stay away from pizzerias then.:-\
lolwatever
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MinAhlilHadeeth
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Oh right I see. I don't really trust these halal take-away places though.:X
lolwatever
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^ i'll ask inshalah... all i can remember is that its got 'halal' written on it... actually thought das all there is to it till i read wat u sed :hiding:
Even food from halal takeaways doesn't mean it's halal. The HALAL sign does not guarantee that all foods in the shop are halal. It is more of an enticement to pull muslim customers.
I happened to be in the kitchen of a halal takeaway once and I noticed that the fat they used looked like lard. It was a big block of white fat. The only fat I know of this description is lard (pig fat). I asked about it and they said they weren't sure what the fat is. I searched for an address etc.. on the box but there were no contact details... so I never got to find out. :-\
yes sis my 
husband worked there for a bit thats how I into the kitchens lol & yeah ur right not all halal food shop owners are practicing.. that's why we gotto be ultra careful *sigh*
hehe my siggy's cool na? :giggling:
husband worked there for a bit thats how I into the kitchens lol & yeah ur right not all halal food shop owners are practicing.. that's why we gotto be ultra careful *sigh*hehe my siggy's cool na? :giggling:
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Malaikah
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Yay! Pizza here I come!
Ruling Regarding Animal Rennet in Cheese
Sheikh Salman al-Oadah
There is no problem using the rennet extracted from animals that were slaughtered according to Islamic Law. However, there is a lot of cheese in our markets coming from non-Muslim countries containing bovine rennet. The question arises as to whether or not we as Muslims can eat this cheese.
Cheese made with rennet extracted from animals that were illegally slaughtered was deemed permissible by Imam Ahmad, as stipulated in al-Mughnî (1/3). Muslims used to eat the cheese brought from the Magians and other unbelievers.
The people of knowledge have two sayings on this matter:
The opinion of the majority is that such rennet is impure, [refer to: al-Qawânîn al-Fiqhiyyah page 121, al-Majmû`2/588, Nihâyat al-Muhtâj1/244, Sharh Muntahâ al-Iradât 1/31, al-Insâf 92/1, al-Iqnâ` 1/1]. They believed the rennet is impure because it comes from an impure source, the stomach of the illegally slaughtered animal. They say it is a liquid material that touched an impure substance and thus becomes impure. Imam al-Nawawî said: "It is part of the animal so it is impure, like all the other parts of the animal."
The other saying is that it is pure. This is the opinion of some of the Companions and successors, `Umar, Salmân al-Fârisî, Talhâ, al-Husayn b. `Ali and others. It is also the opinion of the Hanafî school of thought, one narration from Ahmad, and the opinion of Ibn Taymiyyah, [refer to: Badâ'` al-Sanâ'`1/63, al-Bahr al-Ra'q 1/112, Tabyîn al-Haqa'q 1/26, Ihkâm al-Qur'an by al-Jassâs 1/168, al-Mabsût 24/27-28, Majmû` al-Fatâwa 21/102].
In his book al-Mughnî, Ibn Qudâmah writes: "Someone asked Imam Ahmad about cheese. The Imam replied: 'You can eat it from any source.' But, when asked about the cheese made by the Magians, he said: 'I do not know, but there is an authentic hadîth through al-A`mash that `Amr b. Sharhabîl said that `Umar was asked about cheese and the rennet of illegally slaughtered animal used therein. `Umar instructed him to mention Allah's name upon it and eat it."
They offer the following for evidence:
1. The hadîth related by Ibn Abî Shaybah (5/130) and `Abd al-Razzâq (4/538) through al-A`mash, as mentioned above. The line of transmission of this hadîth is absolutely sound. Imam Ahmad said: "It is the most correct hadîth on the subject."
2. The narration of Ibn Abî Shaybah (5/131) that Talhah used to put the knife over the cheese, mention Allah's name, then cut it and eat it. This also has a sound line of transmission.
3. The narration of Ibn Abî Shaybah through Waqî` that al-Hasan B. `Ali was asked about the cheese. He said: "It is alright, just put the knife to it, mention Allah's name, and eat it." All its narrators are reliable save Jahsh b. Ziyâd.
4. The narration of al-Tirmidhî (1726) and Ibn Mâjah (3367): "We were informed by Ismâ`îl b. Mûsa al-Fazarî through Salmân that the Prophet (peace be upon him) was asked about ghee, cheese and fur. He replied: "The lawful things are the ones mentioned in Allah's book as lawful and the unlawful things are the ones which are mentioned in Allah's book as unlawful, and whatever is not mentioned there, then it is exempted". It is a weak hadîth. Ibn Abî Shaybah mentioned in his book al-Musannaf (8/98) that he was informed by Waqî' through Suwayyid, the servant of Salmân, that he said: "When we won the battle of Madâ'in, Salmân said: 'We had found a basket in which we found four pieces of fine bread, cheese and a knife. Then Salmân took the knife and cut the cheese then he said: "Pronounce Allah's name and eat".' " The line of transmission is weak.
5. They said the milk and the rennet will not become impure after death and whatever is extracted from the living animal becomes as if dead. Therefore, since milk is lawful in such cases, then rennet is lawful.
Ibn Taymiyah said:
Regarding the milk and the rennet of unlawfully slaughtered animals, there are two saying from the scholars; one that it is pure, held by Abû Hanîfah and others, including one saying of Imam Ahmad. The other saying is that it is impure which is the saying of Malik, al-Shafi`î and another opinion of Imam Ahmad.
This disagreement took place regarding the cheese brought from the Magians as their slaughtered animals are totally unlawful by consensus. Still, there are two sayings about their cheese. I believe their cheese is lawful, since the milk of the illegally slaughtered animals is lawful and because the Companions ate from their cheese after the battle of Iraq. This has been authentically narrated to us from that time.
There are some weak narrations that some people from Hijâz disliked it, but they are not reliable. The people of Iraq are more trustworthy than others in this case because they lived there and knew the Magians firsthand. Salmân al-Farisî was the Caliph `Umar's governer in that area and he considered the cheese of the Magians to be lawful.
As for the argument that a liquid will become impure when it touches an impure place, we reply that it is known from Sunnah that the liquid is pure. We also say that even if it touches an impure place that will not matter. Allah says: "From what is within their bodies between excretions and blood we produce for you a drink, milk, pure and agreeable to those who drink it." This is why it is permissible to carry a child while praying despite of what is inside his body. And Allah knows best.
On the strength of the above arguments, I hold the opinion that eating cheese is lawful even if the rennet is extracted from unlawfully slaughtered animals.
And Allah knows best.
Sheikh Salman al-Oadah
There is no problem using the rennet extracted from animals that were slaughtered according to Islamic Law. However, there is a lot of cheese in our markets coming from non-Muslim countries containing bovine rennet. The question arises as to whether or not we as Muslims can eat this cheese.
Cheese made with rennet extracted from animals that were illegally slaughtered was deemed permissible by Imam Ahmad, as stipulated in al-Mughnî (1/3). Muslims used to eat the cheese brought from the Magians and other unbelievers.
The people of knowledge have two sayings on this matter:
The opinion of the majority is that such rennet is impure, [refer to: al-Qawânîn al-Fiqhiyyah page 121, al-Majmû`2/588, Nihâyat al-Muhtâj1/244, Sharh Muntahâ al-Iradât 1/31, al-Insâf 92/1, al-Iqnâ` 1/1]. They believed the rennet is impure because it comes from an impure source, the stomach of the illegally slaughtered animal. They say it is a liquid material that touched an impure substance and thus becomes impure. Imam al-Nawawî said: "It is part of the animal so it is impure, like all the other parts of the animal."
The other saying is that it is pure. This is the opinion of some of the Companions and successors, `Umar, Salmân al-Fârisî, Talhâ, al-Husayn b. `Ali and others. It is also the opinion of the Hanafî school of thought, one narration from Ahmad, and the opinion of Ibn Taymiyyah, [refer to: Badâ'` al-Sanâ'`1/63, al-Bahr al-Ra'q 1/112, Tabyîn al-Haqa'q 1/26, Ihkâm al-Qur'an by al-Jassâs 1/168, al-Mabsût 24/27-28, Majmû` al-Fatâwa 21/102].
In his book al-Mughnî, Ibn Qudâmah writes: "Someone asked Imam Ahmad about cheese. The Imam replied: 'You can eat it from any source.' But, when asked about the cheese made by the Magians, he said: 'I do not know, but there is an authentic hadîth through al-A`mash that `Amr b. Sharhabîl said that `Umar was asked about cheese and the rennet of illegally slaughtered animal used therein. `Umar instructed him to mention Allah's name upon it and eat it."
They offer the following for evidence:
1. The hadîth related by Ibn Abî Shaybah (5/130) and `Abd al-Razzâq (4/538) through al-A`mash, as mentioned above. The line of transmission of this hadîth is absolutely sound. Imam Ahmad said: "It is the most correct hadîth on the subject."
2. The narration of Ibn Abî Shaybah (5/131) that Talhah used to put the knife over the cheese, mention Allah's name, then cut it and eat it. This also has a sound line of transmission.
3. The narration of Ibn Abî Shaybah through Waqî` that al-Hasan B. `Ali was asked about the cheese. He said: "It is alright, just put the knife to it, mention Allah's name, and eat it." All its narrators are reliable save Jahsh b. Ziyâd.
4. The narration of al-Tirmidhî (1726) and Ibn Mâjah (3367): "We were informed by Ismâ`îl b. Mûsa al-Fazarî through Salmân that the Prophet (peace be upon him) was asked about ghee, cheese and fur. He replied: "The lawful things are the ones mentioned in Allah's book as lawful and the unlawful things are the ones which are mentioned in Allah's book as unlawful, and whatever is not mentioned there, then it is exempted". It is a weak hadîth. Ibn Abî Shaybah mentioned in his book al-Musannaf (8/98) that he was informed by Waqî' through Suwayyid, the servant of Salmân, that he said: "When we won the battle of Madâ'in, Salmân said: 'We had found a basket in which we found four pieces of fine bread, cheese and a knife. Then Salmân took the knife and cut the cheese then he said: "Pronounce Allah's name and eat".' " The line of transmission is weak.
5. They said the milk and the rennet will not become impure after death and whatever is extracted from the living animal becomes as if dead. Therefore, since milk is lawful in such cases, then rennet is lawful.
Ibn Taymiyah said:
Regarding the milk and the rennet of unlawfully slaughtered animals, there are two saying from the scholars; one that it is pure, held by Abû Hanîfah and others, including one saying of Imam Ahmad. The other saying is that it is impure which is the saying of Malik, al-Shafi`î and another opinion of Imam Ahmad.
This disagreement took place regarding the cheese brought from the Magians as their slaughtered animals are totally unlawful by consensus. Still, there are two sayings about their cheese. I believe their cheese is lawful, since the milk of the illegally slaughtered animals is lawful and because the Companions ate from their cheese after the battle of Iraq. This has been authentically narrated to us from that time.
There are some weak narrations that some people from Hijâz disliked it, but they are not reliable. The people of Iraq are more trustworthy than others in this case because they lived there and knew the Magians firsthand. Salmân al-Farisî was the Caliph `Umar's governer in that area and he considered the cheese of the Magians to be lawful.
As for the argument that a liquid will become impure when it touches an impure place, we reply that it is known from Sunnah that the liquid is pure. We also say that even if it touches an impure place that will not matter. Allah says: "From what is within their bodies between excretions and blood we produce for you a drink, milk, pure and agreeable to those who drink it." This is why it is permissible to carry a child while praying despite of what is inside his body. And Allah knows best.
On the strength of the above arguments, I hold the opinion that eating cheese is lawful even if the rennet is extracted from unlawfully slaughtered animals.
And Allah knows best.
http://www.islamtoday.net/english/showme.cfm?cat_id=2&sub_cat_id=535
well if we're gonna eat cheese from an illegally slaughtered animal then why not eat the animal too?
honestly the whole point of why illegally slaughtered animals are forbidden is because it's all haram... how can they say this & that part is ok?
why not just use vegetarian cheeses?
honestly the whole point of why illegally slaughtered animals are forbidden is because it's all haram... how can they say this & that part is ok?
if mentioning Allah's name made something halal then there'd be no need for halal slaughter.
why not just use vegetarian cheeses?
Malaikah
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Sis, the scholars have a pretty strong difference of opinion on the issue, however the above article shows that some of the companions of the Prophet considered it okay, the reasoning was also given. I hardly think 'Umar of all people is just going to make something up himself against the rulings of Rasulallah!
I don't think we need to try and extrapolate further about the meat, the meat is different to the fluids.
Allah knows best, but the article is good enough for me.
Oh and about vegetarian cheeses, I can't find any!! Can you believe it!:rant:
If the scholars' opinions differ why go for what is in your favour? How do you know that opinion is correct? Why not abandon doubtful matters and keep one's deen free from blame? I agree Umar (ra) would never have made his own rulings - but hadith aren't exactly 100% authentic as compared to the Quran.
Sis, the scholars have a pretty strong difference of opinion on the issue, however the above article shows that some of the companions of the Prophet considered it okay, the reasoning was also given. I hardly think 'Umar of all people is just going to make something up himself against the rulings of Rasulallah!
Almighty Allah Taála says, "People of Imaan! Eat of the pure things (Halaal) that We have provided for you, and be grateful to Allah Taála" (Surah Baqarah 2:172)
It'd be interesting to point out that even the meat of an otherwise halal animal is deemed haram if the animal dies before halal slaughter. Then how can anything from an animal which wasn't even slaughtered by halal methods be considered halal?
In fact an animal which has been subjected to sexual intercourse by a human cannot even be slaughtered and is considered haram for consumption. Does it makes sense to then eat parts of an animal which hasn't been islamically slaughtered? If that were the case than gelatin which is not a meat, but a substance derived from bones would be halal even if it came from non-zibhad animals. You cannot rename a haram thing as halal as long as it's essence and it remains unchanged. That is the property of both gelatin and rennet - which is why they are used for the purpose they are.
Even halal food cross-contaminated with haram food (fats, oil, juices, meat etcetc) is haram. So it doesn't make sense consume a fluid from a haram source purely because it isn't a meat. :-\
Should we not extricate ourselves from matters of doubt? Islam considers it piety to avoid what is doubtful in order to stay away from doing what is haram.
I advise caution sis.Allah knows best, but the article is good enough for me.
lol are you sure? there must be suppliers around.. after all someone must be catering for vegetarians. At the end of the day it isn't a huge sacrifice sis to give it up if you have to. You can always make your own cheese.
Malaikah
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:uuh: ffended: +o( GROSS!!!!!! I get what your trying to say sis, but I never realised how hard it is to live with out cheese!!! It's driving my parents crazy too, we got pizza yesterday, and my dad was off to buy pizza when my bros told him I won't eat it because of the cheese... boy did they get frustrated... not to mention a billion other foods.
Anyway, that article satisfied me enough that it wasn't just people making up their own theories about why it is okay... I don't want to cause too much issues for anyone...