which language is urdu derived from?

Malaak said:
so is every language(for its speakers at least),innit?
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I think Urdu is poetic but I think Arabic is far far far more poetic and has a very very beautiful flow specially with the thickness of certain letters than any language could be. I think Farsi could also be more poetic than Urdu because Urdu is derived from Farsi. My gramps speaks a lil farsi. Just cuz i speak Urdu i dont wanna claim its the most beautiful language ever but I think its more poetic than languages likes english for sure though.

This kind of stuff just intrigues us thats all :P

Wasslaam ya ukhthi
 
abdullah_001 said:
I think Urdu is poetic but I think Arabic is far far far more poetic and has a very very beautiful flow specially with the thickness of certain letters than any language could be. I think Farsi could also be more poetic than Urdu because Urdu is derived from Farsi. My gramps speaks a lil farsi. Just cuz i speak Urdu i dont wanna claim its the most beautiful language ever but I think its more poetic than languages likes english for sure though.

This kind of stuff just intrigues us thats all :P

Wasslaam ya ukhthi
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:sl:

In terms of Qur'anic Arabic I agree with this.

I think Arabic is far far far more poetic and has a very very beautiful flow specially with the thickness of certain letters than any language could be.
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However I do not know of any country in which Qur'anic Arabic is spoken. All of the colloquial modern dialects are not very pleasant sounding. (Possible exceptions Syrian and Yemeni Arabic) Urdu is much more pleasant and poetic then Modern Arabic.
 
no really, Farsi Is musical 'sounding' I think, see for yourself http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzugQ8pRtYs

Arabic as it is spoken now-colloquial- is a gruff sounding language actually, being my mother tongue I like it well enough, but either way, I'm referring to sound here, not capability for expression.
French sounds unique among European languages, Lebanese/Syrian Arabic is like that among he colloquial Arabic dialects. having to do with different root words etc.

Urdu on the other hand can be too flowery.
 
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Woodrow said:
:sl:

In terms of Qur'anic Arabic I agree with this.



However I do not know of any country in which Qur'anic Arabic is spoken. All of the colloquial modern dialects are not very pleasant sounding. (Possible exceptions Syrian and Yemeni Arabic) Urdu is much more pleasant and poetic then Modern Arabic.
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What about old Arabic poetry then brother?
 
^but bro, that's a dead form of expression, only the form and sentence structure is maintained, otherwise no one truly gets it..

the qur'an is an absolute form of poetry/language I believe, a universal text not bound to Arabic only, it supplies never-ending meaning, so it's hardly comparable to Arabic as a language.
 
alcurad said:
^but bro, that's a dead form of expression, only the form and sentence structure is maintained, otherwise no one truly gets it..

the qur'an is an absolute form of poetry/language I believe, a universal text not bound to Arabic only, it supplies never-ending meaning, so it's hardly comparable to Arabic as a language.
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:sl:

Brother, even if the message was universal, the miracle would still be in Arabic. Proof of this is, Qur'an doesn't have that effect on us as it did on the people of Quraish at the time when Qur'an was revealed. Even the disbelievers of those times had very profound reactions listening to Qur'an.

And when we look at the concept of miracles we must understand that the miracles that Prophets(as) performed were related to what their nations excelled at. Pharoah's time was a time of magic n illusion, hence why Musa (as)'s stick turned into a snake and such, hence the reason why the wizards became Muslims when they saw the snake eat their snakes which were just illusions. Isa (as)'s nation excelled at medicine, hence why he could heal the sick cure the blind and bring the dead back to life etc.

Why was the miracle sent to Quraish at that particular time? and why did even the disbelievers of that time had such reaction that even we as Muslims do not have? Why is it that they realized the miracle and we, even though we admit that Qur'an is a miracle and the ultimate guidance sent from Allah (swt), fail to be moved to such extent by it?

Understanding the guidance and understanding the miracle are two different things and even though we may get the basic message of Qur'an, however distorted it may be, in other languages, we will never be able to understand the miracle in any language other than Arabic and thats why we say that the Qur'an is only in Arabic, among other reasons of course.
 
I simply take at as part of the universality of the message, it fits every people in their time in a unique way. we as mostly 'born' Muslims don't feel much from over exposure, not to mention these days the qur'an takes secondary place to hadeeth/figh, not much is there in the way of tafseer for example, we still use superficial/archaic tafseers from centuries ago that contain as much myth/legend and tales from the bible as genuine tafseer. rather people mostly discuss sectarian divisions and whatnot instead of the qur'an, or focus on the voice and singing it instead of understanding/applying it.
 
alcurad said:
I simply take at as part of the universality of the message, it fits every people in their time in a unique way. we as mostly 'born' Muslims don't feel much from over exposure, not to mention these days the qur'an takes secondary place to hadeeth/figh, not much is there in the way of tafseer for example, we still use superficial/archaic tafseers from centuries ago that contain as much myth/legend and tales from the bible as genuine tafseer. rather people mostly discuss sectarian divisions and whatnot instead of the qur'an, or focus on the voice and singing it instead of understanding/applying it.
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:sl:

Brother, forgive me as I'm not as knowledgeable as you are, but to me it seems that this is a definite sign of the loss of knowledge in our times.

And I think we don't get moved to such an extent when listening or reciting the Qur'an because we, the modern era Muslims, are so alluded in pursuing worldy affairs that we don't teach ourselves and our kids Arabic hence we don't even understand what we recite.

Second, there is a severe disease plaguing the Muslims in todays world, we think pursuing worldy matters is far more important than pursuing matters of religion. Take guidance from our history and compare it to our ineptitude in todays world. Wallahi, sisters in palestine and kashmir and afganistan get raped everyday, muslim brothers in guantanamo bay get treated so inhumanly just the thought of it makes the stomach churn. Wallahi, we Muslims today don't feel the pain of our brothers and sisters at all.

We are too confined within our boundaries of Pakistan and India and Saudia and so on to realise that we won't even turn a leaf until we are united as one ummah. Think about it, we are more than a billion Muslims yet what is our contribution to todays world and most of all what is our contribution to the muslim ummah as a whole? nothing, absolutely nothing. Didn't the Prophet (sallallahi alaihi wa sallam) say muslims at the end of times will be like foam on top of water? what is our impact on society? absolutely nothing, we are completely weightless.

And third because our hearts have hardened and the truth is we will be humiliated again and again and again until we come back to the fold of Islam and realize that peace, no matter how much one yearns and hopes for it, is only temporary illusion. Every single Muslim goes through trials and tribulations and if we see someone in this world who has everything they could ever want (the pop singers, the george bushs, the bankers of usa, the corrupt kings) and aren't going through any trials or tribulations at all, then that is sure sign that they are on the path of destruction.

Now that i think about it though, this post seems more like a rant lol but forgive me for my shortcomings dear brother :)
 
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dude, it's ok :) we're simply sharing opinions..

I mean I do feel sad at the state we are in, but I also believe the future belongs to us as we have been promised (21:105) "Before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Message (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth."

rather I went into a rant myself there. sorry for that, this thread is completely off-topic now lol
 
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abdullah_001 said:
I think Urdu is poetic but I think Arabic is far far far more poetic and has a very very beautiful flow specially with the thickness of certain letters than any language could be. I think Farsi could also be more poetic than Urdu because Urdu is derived from Farsi. My gramps speaks a lil farsi. Just cuz i speak Urdu i dont wanna claim its the most beautiful language ever but I think its more poetic than languages likes english for sure though.

This kind of stuff just intrigues us thats all :P

Wasslaam ya ukhthi
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Qur'anic Arabic yes, I agree. But I think spoken Urdu nowadays sounds more poetic than spoken Arabic today, definitely. That is my opinion.
 
abdullah_001 said:
What about old Arabic poetry then brother?
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The old Arabic poetry, written in Classical Arabic is quite Beautiful. It is close to Qur'anic Arabic in that sense.

Many language teachers view Qur'anic Arabic as having been the model for Classical Arabic.


Qur'anic Arabic is actually very unique in terms of language. The Qur'an is the only source for it and the only known pure writing of it. It was never used as a daily colloquial language. Although there are many dialects of Arabic and often there is difficulty in them understanding each other a person versed in any dialect can easily comprehend the Qur'anic. That to me is a miracle of the Qur'an. To think that when Muhammad(PBUH) was first reciting it he was reciting to crowds from different Arabic tribes,each speaking a unique dialect yet they all understood him and it was the first time Qur'anic Arabic was spoken on earth.
 
lol, that's why when I speak Quranic Arabic with the Arabs in Saudi and they laugh to me saying I'm reciting Quran and it took me an hour to finish a sentence...

Well, spoken Urdu is quite poetic although I dunno to speak Urdu, still it is among the languages used to teach Islam to non-Arab muslims. I love all languages used to teach Islam, Arabic, Urdu, Turkish, and Persian.

Yeah, this thread sounds off-topic. O.k time's out, back to Quran...
 
Urdu is basically persianized and arabicized Hindustani. On the other hand, Hindi is sanskritized Hindustani. Urdu is heavily influenced with Sanskrit as well. The word for water "paani" has Sanskrit origins. Urdu also uses "aab" for water which is a persian word. But in daily language of Urdu, paani is used.

I used to love Urdu but my love for it has faded away now after visiting Lahore. Urdu is not a "pure" language. It continuously takes words from other languages, these days it is taking from English despite the fact it contains words for those things already. For example, I read in a supermarket in Fortress, Lahore written in Urdu script "Fresh Milk." It was written in Urdu! Can you believe that? Why not just write "taaza doodh?"

Similarly I read on a board "Lemon ki Freshness" in Urdu script! Why NOT write "leemon ki taaazgi?" Urdu disappointed me. After discussing this discovery with my uncle, who is a poet, he told me to focus more on my native tongue which is punjabi and is free of any arrogance that sometime Urdu-speaking people have. No offense to Urdu speakers.

Walaikum Salam.
 
and after reading poems of many punjabi poets, I've come to love the simplicity of this great language. ...
 
Wa7abiScientist brother this is greatness of this language that it easily accommodates other language words
but yes if there is an urdu word present so why use other language but it is up to individuals who speak and use other language words
like our teacher used to say that there is no word for "pizza" so we can use it in urdu, where there is urdu words for "plain rice" "sadah chawal سادہ چاول" but alot of people doesn't say it so its people choice
 
Oh!! I didn't know that there are more than one type of Urdu.

There is like Indian Urdu, Pakistani Urdu.....etc!! That's interesting.
 

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