which one is right

[jihaadu nafs]

as salamu alykum wa rahma tullah wa barakatu


some people say islam will come back if we have hakimiyaa, ie. if we throw the evil rulers out and establish the hukum then islam will be established, others says islam will came back if you establish tawheed and teach others without getting involved with the goverments. which one is right?

 

[united]

SIMPLE ANSWER.
What did the Prophet saw do?
start small, bigger things will follow.

 

[FBI]

Both at the same time

 

[jihaadu nafs]

SIMPLE ANSWER.
What did the Prophet saw do?
start small, bigger things will follow.

united u right but here is more explanation to the answer

You will need to first establish the foundation and then everything else will be the fruits. First we should go back to the Seerah of the prophet SAW, How did he establish his people? He taught them tawheed for 13 years before taking over Mekah. If we need to establish the kilafaah we need to first get the roots. Because Hakimiyah will not work until you cultivate the people so they have sound Aqeedah once this is established the rest will come. Allah SWA could have made the kilafah but he gives us fithnah in order to test us and to see who is truthfull and who the lier is.
Allah SWA tells us surah Ankabuut ayat 1-2

2. Do people think that they will be left alone because they say: "We believe," and will not be tested.
3. And We indeed tested those who were before them. And Allâh will certainly make (it) known (the truth of) those who are true, and will certainly make (it) known (the falsehood of) those who are liars, (although Allâh knows all that before putting them to test).

So every calamity we see is a test from Allah.

 

[Dawud_uk]

as salamu alykum wa rahma tullah wa barakatu


some people say islam will come back if we have hakimiyaa, ie. if we throw the evil rulers out and establish the hukum then islam will be established, others says islam will came back if you establish tawheed and teach others without getting involved with the goverments. which one is right?

assalaamu alaykum,

the haddith is that we will not have this problem lifted until we return to our deen, but it also mentions people turning away from jihad as part of the problem in the same haddith.

so i would argue both have to come together, i am always sceptical of those who say we are in the mekkan period etc as the deen is complete, the rulings complete and the only other time the khilafate was destroyed it was restored through jihad.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Erundur]

as salamu alykum wa rahma tullah wa barakatu


some people say islam will come back if we have hakimiyaa, ie. if we throw the evil rulers out and establish the hukum then islam will be established, others says islam will came back if you establish tawheed and teach others without getting involved with the goverments. which one is right?

:salamext:

I believe that it is a cycle, like all great nations we're going through a period in which we have to find Islam within ourselves and actions order to come back to a time which Islam was prosperous. Within every empire within Islam that has fallen it was do to the lack of faith in Allah (swt) this always happens when an Empire is at its peak and the level of egocentrism that surrounds it within its people. When people realize this, the old way crumbles and a new ways starts.

besides Allah (swt) knows best

 

[Umar001]

as salamu alykum wa rahma tullah wa barakatu


some people say islam will come back if we have hakimiyaa, ie. if we throw the evil rulers out and establish the hukum then islam will be established, others says islam will came back if you establish tawheed and teach others without getting involved with the goverments. which one is right?

Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rahmetulahi Wa Berekatu, Bro Jihaadunafs,

Is rebellion against 'evil' rulers allowed?

And if so what is classified as evil?

the rulings complete and the only other time the khilafate was destroyed it was restored through jihad.

Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rhametulahi Wa Berekatu,

Forgive my ignorace, when was there not a khalifa before now?

 

[Dawud_uk]

Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rahmetulahi Wa Berekatu, Bro Jihaadunafs,

Is rebellion against 'evil' rulers allowed?

And if so what is classified as evil?



Wa Aleykum Salam Wa Rhametulahi Wa Berekatu,

Forgive my ignorace, when was there not a khalifa before now?

assalaamu alaykum,

i take your point about the evil rulers, the scholar and students of knowledge i have spoken to have told me we should only throw out even those rulers committing kufr and have left islam if they're is less fitnah in doing so than in not doing so as long as they rule by shariah.

but just being evil is not enough for being removed, such a ruler is still owed allegience as long as they dont command you to do haram or forbid you from the fard or wajib.

i will look up and see if i can find the exact reference and time, but when the tartars first invaded they killed the kalif in baghdad and for several years there was jihad against the tartars and eventually a new kalif came about through this process though it took a lot longer to remove the tartars and their evil rule of kufr and oppression from baghdad.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Hemoo]

well brothers and sisters of islam

as far as i know that we dont go against the rulers or hukaam because this will lead to the following :-
1- a greater evil and a greater corruption .
2- it leads to muslims killing muslims (and that is not jihad) specially that there is no leader to this jihad.(so its a complete mess)
3- besides you all go see what did some companians did in the time of "alhagag alsakafy" he was really a bad ruler but they didnt go against him.

 

[^..sTr!vEr..^]

hey but aving islamic leaders is very necessary..if they r islamic it vil b easier to bring ppl closer to islam...
n dun forget that politics IS a part of Islam!

 

[snakelegs]

if the saudis rose up against their rulers, would they be wrong?

 

[Dawud_uk]

if the saudis rose up against their rulers, would they be wrong?

yes and no,

depends on which scholar you speak to.

some say the saudi rulers are sinful but not actually left the fold of islam,

some say they have left the fold of islam but not the time to rise up against them as more harm in doing so than leaving in place.

some say they have left the fold of islam and that is the time for rebelling against them but they are a tiny tiny minority and mostly amongst the mujahadeen the saudi rulers so dislike not suprisingly.

Abu Abdullah

 

[jihaadu nafs]

if the saudis rose up against their rulers, would they be wrong?

Muslims are required by their religion to submit to the authority of the country they live in. They must comply with their rulers and not create chaos in anyway. The Qur’an directs them to follow those in authority after following Allah and the Prophet (sws) in the following words:
Obey God and the Prophet and those of you who are in authority. (4:59)

He who sees something despicable in his ruler should bear it, for he who even slightly disassociates himself from the state system and dies in this condition shall die the death of ignorance. (Bukhari: No. 7054)

but if they make you do haram you do not follow them on this, because then u will be dispobaying Allah ,
And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, surely his is hell-fire, wherin such dwell forever (The Qur'an 72:23)

also in hadith bukkhaari Volume 9, Book 89, Number 258:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "A Muslim has to listen to and obey (the order of his ruler) whether he likes it or not, as long as his orders involve not one in disobedience (to Allah), but if an act of disobedience (to Allah) is imposed one should not listen to it or obey it. (See Hadith No. 203, Vol. 4)

Therefore it will absolutely be wrong to rebel against the Saudi rulers, especially when suadi is the only country that rules by the law of the shari’aa, you won’t even see people trading at the time of prayers, people will go to prayers and leave their shops open and unattended because they trust Allah and hardly nobody will steal because they fear Allah.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Muslims are required by their religion to submit to the authority of the country they live in. They must comply with their rulers and not create chaos in anyway. The Qur’an directs them to follow those in authority after following Allah and the Prophet (sws) in the following words:
Obey God and the Prophet and those of you who are in authority. (4:59)

He who sees something despicable in his ruler should bear it, for he who even slightly disassociates himself from the state system and dies in this condition shall die the death of ignorance. (Bukhari: No. 7054)

but if they make you do haram you do not follow them on this, because then u will be dispobaying Allah ,
And whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, surely his is hell-fire, wherin such dwell forever (The Qur'an 72:23)

also in hadith bukkhaari Volume 9, Book 89, Number 258:

Narrated 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "A Muslim has to listen to and obey (the order of his ruler) whether he likes it or not, as long as his orders involve not one in disobedience (to Allah), but if an act of disobedience (to Allah) is imposed one should not listen to it or obey it. (See Hadith No. 203, Vol. 4)

Therefore it will absolutely be wrong to rebel against the Saudi rulers, especially when suadi is the only country that rules by the law of the shari’aa, you won’t even see people trading at the time of prayers, people will go to prayers and leave their shops open and unattended because they trust Allah and hardly nobody will steal because they fear Allah.

assalaamu alaykum,

i will leave the debate on whether the saudis truly rule by shariah, but taking your view that they do or at least intend to as correct then this also leaves aside another point.

what if in another matter they have been declared as apostates?

the rulings above do not apply to an apostate ruler, then different rulings apply. if i get time today at work i will find them but big time scholars like sheikh ash shu'aybi declared takfir on the previous saudi king.

but i understand the scholars are divided on whether to rebel under the present circumstances, even the greater part of those who believe the king to have left islam still say their ruling is that their is greater potential fitnah in removing him than leaving him in place and warning him and advising him to leave his crimes of taking the kuffar as his awliyah.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:

about all these corrupt muslim leaders, isnt it the duty of muslims as a whole to correct any leader? Didnt a man say to Umar RA that he would fix him with his sword?

So yes we obey the rulers (if its in the boundaries of shariah) but at the same time we should strive to correct them, not completely submit to the false ways and become comfortable with them.

 

[Dawud_uk]

:salamext:

about all these corrupt muslim leaders, isnt it the duty of muslims as a whole to correct any leader? Didnt a man say to Umar RA that he would fix him with his sword?

So yes we obey the rulers (if its in the boundaries of shariah) but at the same time we should strive to correct them, not completely submit to the false ways and become comfortable with them.

assalaamu alaykum,

yes but we shouldnt rebel just because they are sinful, as long as the shariah is observed and enforced and as long as the ruler doesnt become an apostate then their is no question of rebelling against them.

other than that it is the scholars who should make rulings on this matter but the problem is many of the scholars are in the pockets of the rulers or affraid of them so will not speak the truth. many of the truthful ones are either dead, imprisoned or on the front lines already.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[Jayda]

hola jihaadu nafs,

i do not wish to interrupt your conversation but i am very confused by your question... do muslims believe islam is not complete or not fully a religion yet? is there supposed to be another prophet... i thought the quran said that mohammed is the last prophet...

gracias

 

[jihaadu nafs]

:salamext:

about all these corrupt muslim leaders, isnt it the duty of muslims as a whole to correct any leader? Didnt a man say to Umar RA that he would fix him with his sword?

So yes we obey the rulers (if its in the boundaries of shariah) but at the same time we should strive to correct them, not completely submit to the false ways and become comfortable with them.

Absolutely if we can we should try to correct the rulers but we should take in consideration the following word by sheikh Ibn Baz on the Manhaj of Correcting the Rulers.

It is not to publicise the faults of the Rulers and to mention such things from the pulpit because that leads to confusion, disorder and the absence of hearing and obeying the ruler in what is good. It also results in (the people) becoming engrossed (with these matters, arguing and debating) which causes harm and produces no benefit. However is to give naseehah (advice) with respect to the matters which are between themselves and the leader, writing to him or by reaching him through the scholars who keep in touch with him (to advise him) until the ruler is directed towards the good. Repelling the evil occurs without mentioning the doer of the evil. So fornication, drinking of intoxicants and the taking of usury are curbed without mentioning the one who does such things. Warding off the evil and warning and the people against it is sufficient without it being mentioned that such and such a person does it, whether he is a ruler or other than the ruler.

And when the fitnah occurred in the time of 'Uthmaan, some of the people said to Usaamah ibn Zaid , "Will you not speak to 'Uthmaan?" So he replied, "You think that I will not talk to him without letting you know about it (also). Indeed, I will certainly talk to him regarding that which concerns me and him without initiating a matter which I do not love to be the first to initiate."

And when they (the Khawaarij) opened up the evil in the time of 'Uthmaan and rejected 'Uthmaan openly, the fitnah, the killing and the mischief, which has not ceased to affect the people to this day, was brought about And this caused the fitnah to occur between 'Alee and Mu'aawiyyah and 'Uthmaan was killed for these reasons.

(Furthermore) a large number of Companions and other besides them were killed due to this open rebellion and the open proclamation of the faults (of the ruler), until the people began to hate the one charged with authority over them and killed him. We ask Allaah for success." End of the words of the Shaykh.

 

[jihaadu nafs]

Both at the same time

I will disagree on the fact that both should come together at the same time. Because the prophet SAW did not do this he concentrated on twheed first for 13 years, we should look back to the Seerah of our prophet SAW. And the best of guidance is the guidance of the prophet SAW if we leave his guidance then it will not work. You have to remove the Jahal from the people first and make them understand the deen.

Furthermore you can’t plant a tree and eats it fruit at the same time, so how can you do both at the same time. There is way to do things, everything should be done step by step, this is the way of Allah he created everything step by step.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

i understand what you mean jihaadu,

invite to the way of your lord with wisdome and beautiful preaching,

i guess this implies when talking to rulers aswell...