which one is right
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peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence jayda,
islam is complete. however some muslims do not follow it completely.
now islam has divine legislation covering all aspects of society, from a legal prospective, from a moral prospective, from a military prospective, from an economic prospective etc etc.
one of the biggest areas we as muslims are failing to impliment islam completely is implementing islam from a governmental prospective in that the muslims are at the moment ruled by tyrant kings and presidents who have mostly been imposed upon the muslims by their former colonial rulers before they left or through western interference afterwards.
so what we are discussing is whether it is allowable to rebel against such rulers or not, and the rulings about that from the scholars of islam.
does that help explain things?
peace be upon those who follow righteous guidence,
Abu Abdullah
you mean like the islamic republic of iran? which is about as islamic as the democratic republic of china is democratic.
the same aplies, the name doesnt mean anything if the actions dont back it up.
Abu Abdullah
pakistan is a muslim country it is not islamic.
even its 'islamic laws' are pretty mixed and were brought in under a military dictator called general zia who was trying to move pakistan to make it more islamic and more moral,
so it is not purely islamic in its government and has a lot of secular law mixed in no matter what it claims.
saying that, pakistan is where i have most hope for the islamic revival, the people might be cultural but they have a lot of love in their hearts for islam but have been sold a falsehood, they have been told their nation is islamic when it is not.
the natural consequence of them being told the truth will be a demand for the genuine article increasingly from the muslims there.
Abu Abdullah
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yes, i know but it uses the name "islamic republic of" since zia.
not surprisingly, my hopes for pakistan are different than yours.
yes, they use the name but a name doesnt mean anything, as in my use of the 'democratic republic of china' as an example.
i have no doubts your hopes are different, but i know what God would want and it makes me happy that pakistan is heading in the right direction, even if it is two steps forward, one step back.
i support and agree with the later one "to give dawah of tauheed, greatness superiorty power of Almighty Allah, calling ppl to His command" this is our main work and getting government is Allah's work, He knows the best time for it.dawah is important tool for muslims to survive with their Islam intact, as well as, to get help of Allah Taala, which is the main thing in our life. getting government is not the "sabab" reason to spread islam,
following the command of Allah Taala and sunnah of Muhammad Sallalahu alayhi wa salaam is the real "sabab" cause for muslims to progress.
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I often hear scholars make excuses for their lack of development saying "Oh where in the mekkan period" but where not were in the year 2007, the deen has been perfected, also your argument is invalid, what happened to 'tawakul', do you sit at home and make dua to allah to provide for u while u sit there and do nothing, of course u don't, the deen won't just fall into place, also u say we must make people understand the deen, again that's not a valid argument, what u saying we must make 1.5 billion muslims learned before we attempt to establish a sharia run country?
jihaadu nafs
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Wa alykuma salam
Your statement doest make sense FBI
You said’
"Oh where in the mekkan period" but where not were in the year 2007:”
Whether we are in the year 2007, or in the 80s or 60 or even the mekkan times, it makes no different because the deen has been complete.
Allaah says, "this day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion" (5:3)
This verse embodies a clear statement that the religion has been completed and so has no need of addition and deletion, and our noble Messenger (SAW) said, "there is nothing that Allaah ordered you with except that I have ordered you with it, and there is nothing that Allaah forbade you from except that I have forbidden you from it" (al-Bayhaqee and others)
So am confused what do mean when you say we are 2007? Are you saying we should have a new up to date Islam???
You said;
We must make people understand the deen, again that's not a valid argument, what u saying we must make 1.5 billion muslims learned before we attempt to establish a sharia run country?
If we try to take the hakimiya, how can we do this if the majority of the people don’t even know the importance of tawheed, when they are ignorant and are involve is usury, shirk and many evil things, are you going to force the hukum on them? Wouldn’t they retaliate?
Rememeber the saying of Allah
"Let there be no compulsion in religion..” Qur'an 2:256.
Furthermore all I am saying is if we want to establish something Islamicallay we should follow the way of the prophets SAW as he was our best example. So are you saying we are better then HIM or HE is not a good example for us? Or because of the fact we are in 2007 HIS way is no longer sufficient for us and we should therefore appose his way??.
If this is what you mean then how are we gona establish hukum if we oppose the way the prophet SAW?
Disobedience results in defeat, remember that story of the battle Uhud which gave us an important lesson by which befits us, which is that when a Muslims suffer defeat they blame themselves, As Allah the mighty and majestic has informed the Muslims the reason for their defeat in the battle of Uhud was themselves as they disobeyed the Prophets SAW. Contemplate on this Akhi and be objective.
Stick to the Quran and Sunnah, Islam is a complete and perfect religion. All harm, injustices and crookedness is raised from it.
Remember the saying of Imaam Malik ‘The later part of this Ummah will not be corrected except, by that which corrected its former part.”
Therefore the key to establish the hakimiyah is implementing of the beneficial knowledge and establishing righteous and correct action, which is achieved by Tasfiya (purification of the deen) and Tharbiyah (Cultivating the people about Islam).
You have also said:
‘Do you sit at home and make dua to allah to provide for u while u sit there and do nothing, of course u don't, the deen won't just fall into place,’
Answer:
Firstly I haven’t said anything about sitting and doing nothing.
In fact to bring about Tasfiya wa Tharbiyaa requires a great deal of effort and sincere cooperation between all Muslims, from all those concerned with establishing the desired Islamic society.
Secondly lets not under estimate dua. As Dua is the most potent weapon of a believer. It is the essence of ibadah or worship. With it we can never fail; without it we can never succeed. In the proper scheme of things, dua should be the first and the last resort of the believer, with all his plans and actions coming in between.
Stick to the Quran and Sunnah Akhi, as this is sufficient for us.
May Allah guides us and give us knowledge. Amen
May Allah forgive me, any mistakes I have made is from myself and the shydaan, and any good is from Allah alone.
Your statement doest make sense FBI
You said’
"Oh where in the mekkan period" but where not were in the year 2007:”
Whether we are in the year 2007, or in the 80s or 60 or even the mekkan times, it makes no different because the deen has been complete.
Allaah says, "this day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion" (5:3)
This verse embodies a clear statement that the religion has been completed and so has no need of addition and deletion, and our noble Messenger (SAW) said, "there is nothing that Allaah ordered you with except that I have ordered you with it, and there is nothing that Allaah forbade you from except that I have forbidden you from it" (al-Bayhaqee and others)
So am confused what do mean when you say we are 2007? Are you saying we should have a new up to date Islam???
You said;
We must make people understand the deen, again that's not a valid argument, what u saying we must make 1.5 billion muslims learned before we attempt to establish a sharia run country?
If we try to take the hakimiya, how can we do this if the majority of the people don’t even know the importance of tawheed, when they are ignorant and are involve is usury, shirk and many evil things, are you going to force the hukum on them? Wouldn’t they retaliate?
Rememeber the saying of Allah
"Let there be no compulsion in religion..” Qur'an 2:256.
Furthermore all I am saying is if we want to establish something Islamicallay we should follow the way of the prophets SAW as he was our best example. So are you saying we are better then HIM or HE is not a good example for us? Or because of the fact we are in 2007 HIS way is no longer sufficient for us and we should therefore appose his way??.
If this is what you mean then how are we gona establish hukum if we oppose the way the prophet SAW?
Disobedience results in defeat, remember that story of the battle Uhud which gave us an important lesson by which befits us, which is that when a Muslims suffer defeat they blame themselves, As Allah the mighty and majestic has informed the Muslims the reason for their defeat in the battle of Uhud was themselves as they disobeyed the Prophets SAW. Contemplate on this Akhi and be objective.
Stick to the Quran and Sunnah, Islam is a complete and perfect religion. All harm, injustices and crookedness is raised from it.
Remember the saying of Imaam Malik ‘The later part of this Ummah will not be corrected except, by that which corrected its former part.”
Therefore the key to establish the hakimiyah is implementing of the beneficial knowledge and establishing righteous and correct action, which is achieved by Tasfiya (purification of the deen) and Tharbiyah (Cultivating the people about Islam).
You have also said:
‘Do you sit at home and make dua to allah to provide for u while u sit there and do nothing, of course u don't, the deen won't just fall into place,’
Answer:
Firstly I haven’t said anything about sitting and doing nothing.
In fact to bring about Tasfiya wa Tharbiyaa requires a great deal of effort and sincere cooperation between all Muslims, from all those concerned with establishing the desired Islamic society.
Secondly lets not under estimate dua. As Dua is the most potent weapon of a believer. It is the essence of ibadah or worship. With it we can never fail; without it we can never succeed. In the proper scheme of things, dua should be the first and the last resort of the believer, with all his plans and actions coming in between.
Stick to the Quran and Sunnah Akhi, as this is sufficient for us.
May Allah guides us and give us knowledge. Amen
May Allah forgive me, any mistakes I have made is from myself and the shydaan, and any good is from Allah alone.
assalaamu alaykum,
sometimes force is possible, allowable and necessary.
didnt abu Bakr (ra) and other sahabah not fight the rebelling tribes as apostates in some cases just for a refusal of paying zakat?
so yes force is sometimes necessary to bring people into line in islam. if an islamic state comes about they must forbid evil and enjoin good and if people continue to commit evil and call to it then it is the states responsibility to stop them.
assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
sometimes force is possible, allowable and necessary.
didnt abu Bakr (ra) and other sahabah not fight the rebelling tribes as apostates in some cases just for a refusal of paying zakat?
so yes force is sometimes necessary to bring people into line in islam. if an islamic state comes about they must forbid evil and enjoin good and if people continue to commit evil and call to it then it is the states responsibility to stop them.
assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah
jihaadu nafs
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wa alykuma salam wa rahmatullah wa barakatu
These people that the sahabaas fought were mubtaduun (people who believed then disbelieved) And abu bakr was the kalifaah at the time so he had the authority, so if there is Islamic state then your right force is necessary in order to forbid evil and enjoy the good.and Allah knows best.
These people that the sahabaas fought were mubtaduun (people who believed then disbelieved) And abu bakr was the kalifaah at the time so he had the authority, so if there is Islamic state then your right force is necessary in order to forbid evil and enjoy the good.and Allah knows best.
yes, they had disbelieved after delieving, and yet for some of them the very fact they refused to pay zakaat was enough they prayed and still professed to be muslim?
Abu Abdullah
the sahabah used their strength, moreover, the Help of Allah SWT were with them against the rebellious nations and tribes, when UMMAH had already been formed.
today the ummah is shattered and disunited. All these destruction are there in muslim lands because the Ummah has not remained an Ummah. the ummah is divided into alot of things. many strange slogans and ideologies are being raised which further divides the ummah.
Those who know truth should call upon people who dont know it. ignorance and disobedience of Allah is common in muslim societies. Allah SWT does not punish the nation until unless there comes messenger who call people to truth. if they reject truth, then the war is not atually between the believers and disbelievers, but actually it is the war between Allah and the disblievers.
dawah is important work to be initiated to get the help of Allah SWT which at present is lost in general ummah, for there is no ummah.
little points to share.
