Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?
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Grace Seeker
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Zilkiflim, I'm reposting this in case you care to respond to it. Philosopher did respond in a long post that I couldn't see how it related to either one of our comments nor to the topic in general. So, I thought maybe you would care to speak for yourself?
Salaam,
Well after all the deletion i cant recall what they main argument was about..
Hmm.,...let me try to F8 my brain..LOL
Abdul-Raouf
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Hmmm.. The important point u have left is u consider Jesus as God(ie accordin to u the three persons, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost)...
Redeemed
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Why didn't you say I consider Him the Son of God? You didn't understand my question: I asked what if you suddenly realized that it is possible for God to be one yet consist of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit? What if you could see that Jesus is Allah's word made into flesh as a man and the Holy Spirit is God's Spirit??:? If you could see this, then you would know what we see as Christians.
Redeemed
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By the way, the Qur'an misrepresents Biblical Christianity. It bases its assumptions on Catholicism, because no where in the Bible does it state that followers of Christ are to include Mary as deity or part of the trinity. Remember, we do not see God as one in three gods. We see Him as one substance yet three persons, and contrary to the Qur'an, Mary is not part of it.
Malaikah
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Redeemed
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The name above all names:thumbs_upJesus.:thumbs_up
Redeemed
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a lot of what you say is truth. But i think it does have an impact more so on them what our view is of the Qur'an than what their view is of the trinity. As I have mentioned, the Qur'an misrepresents Biblical Christianity. It bases its assumptions on Catholicism, because no where in the Bible does it state that followers of Christ are to include Mary as deity or part of the trinity. Remember, we do not see God as one in three gods like they say we do (cause their only form of reference is the Qur'an). We see Him as one substance and yet in three persons. Contrary to the Qur'an, Mary is not part of it. We see Jesus as the word of God which became flesh, and we see God as a Spirit; therefore, He is the Holy Spirit. There is only ONE God. It is not our job to explain how this is possible. With man this is not possible, but with God all things are possible.:statisfie
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had you any manners (or indeed any knowledge) you would have answered my question instead of alway talking what rhyms with bullspit
NoName55 which came first after Paul and sun-god constantine; Catholicism or your particular version?alapiana1By the way, the Qur'an misrepresents Biblical Christianity. It bases its assumptions on Catholicism, because no where in the Bible does it state that followers of Christ are to include Mary as deity or part of the trinity. Remember, we do not see God as one in three gods. We see Him as one substance yet three persons, and contrary to the Qur'an, Mary is not part of it.Originally Posted by NoName55
^^ my new signature is for you
how do you trace your creed back to Paul if not thru Rome?
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Trumble
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Catholics do not 'worship' Mary. They venerate her, honour her and show devotion to both her and other Saints. They would agree with you that only God is 'worthy of worship'.
Hello, I was brought up a catholic and was certainly taught to pray to her statue, praise her and ask her for things. what else do you call that? it is certainly not right to put her on a par with 'other saints'.
The whole month of May was devoted to the worship of Mary in my (& all other catholic) schools.
peace
Trumble
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I call it veneration, and not 'worship', although I agree with your last point; I phrased that badly. Exactly the same is true of many traditional Buddhist practices in some cultures, that are (incorrectly) interpreted as 'worshipping' the Buddha. I did a quick google and found this, which seems to make the Catholic position clear, Do Catholics Worship Mary?
A question for you; did you perceive your 'worship' of Mary as being that appropriate to a god?
we were constantly and enthusiastically told by the nuns that Mary was the 'mother of God' and therefore so 'special' and 'unique' and 'high status' and so on and on. If anyone told you 'here is God your creator, pray to Him and ask Him for whatever you want, and by the way this here is His mother, you can pray to her for whatever you want too' what do you think they are trying to tell you? what would you think, if you were to take them at their word? If anyone questioned anything, or tried to 'tie down' a doctrine to a definite position, they were given short shrift.
when I prayed to Mary, I believed I was praying to the 'Mother of God'. I can't give you any further explanations of it than that. I believe polytheism means praying to someone other than God, and asking them for things and so on. I suppose someone can say 'well I pray to (whoever) and I 'venerate' them and I believe they have power to give me what I ask - but I don't worship them' - well they are deluding themselves.
and that's what I believe.
peace
From my perspective, Catholics worship Mary (hail Mary, statues, etc) and they call her the Mother of God while Protestants worship Jesus (rely upon him to save them from their sins) and they call him the Son of God. It is readily apparent to Muslims for anyone to call a human as God, or Son of God, or Mother of God as blasphemously ascribing partners with the One God. This is despite the good intentions of Christians to be monotheistic.
I agree. Another point is that Christianity has changed considerably since the Quran was revealed, particularly the Protestant Reformation led by Martin Luther in 1500's. Wikipedia "Church beliefs and practices under attack by Protestant reformers included purgatory, particular judgment, devotion to Mary, the intercession of the saints, most of the sacraments, and the authority of the Pope." BTW there were no Baptist or Methodists in 600 A.D.
Trumble
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I see "devotion", not "worship".
Muslim Knight
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This echoes the polytheists in Makkah who oppressed the Prophet during the birth of Islam. They did not outrightly reject Allah, but their sin was to set up partners for Him with whom they worship. They were saying that Hubal, Al-Lat and Uzza had the right for devotion alongside Allah.
That Muhammad said these idols made by their own hands, were powerless, enraged them and made them obstinate against the Message of Islam and the testification of faith, Laa ilaha il Allah, There is no deity worthy of worship but Allah.
'Devote' or 'worship' really makes no difference. Let us call a black kettle, black. We Muslims do not suffer the mental illness of seeing 1 as 3 or 3 as 1.