Who is the Trinity to Christians & Muslims?
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Yes, Jesus paid for my sins with His own blood, and that payment was IN FULL for ALL my sins. "We love Him because He first loved us" (1 John 4:19). Because He loved me and died for me, I love Him and, in gratitude for all He did for me, I live to serve and please Him. So, I don't even think like you speak ("do whatever the hell you want"). Why am I still living? Because He has not chosen to take me home (heaven) yet. When He does, I will live no more in this body, but in Heaven with Him! Praise God! 2 Cor. 5:9 says, "Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent [from the body], to be well pleasing to Him."
Wrong. wrong. wrong. I am not lying to myself because I did not originate this "good news" (Gospel) but God Himself did. I know to your unregenerate mind, it is foolishness. I expect nothing else. When you receive and believe, if you ever do, you will understand and you will rejoice with me and the millions who have done likewise down through the ages since He demonstrated that great love at Calvary. For you to spurn that love and reject His offer of eternal life as a free gift, is to sentence yourself to an eternity of indescribable loss. You are a lost sinner now, as I was many years ago, but your lostness now is nothing compared to your future state, if you remain in unbelief.
Peace
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And I haven't put my hand into Jesus' wounds either, like He invited Thomas to do. That makes me more blessed than Thomas:
John 20:
24. But Thomas, called Didymus, one of the twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
25. The other disciples therefore said to him, "We have seen the Lord.'' But he said to them, "Unless I see in His hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.''
26. And after eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas with them. Jesus came, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, "Peace to you!''
27. Then He said to Thomas, "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing.''
28. And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!''
29. Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.''
Jesus also gave the account of Lazarus and the rich man, the latter going to hell and later begging Abraham to send Lazarus back to life to warn the rich man's brothers about hell. What was Abraham's response to that request? "If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.''
You don't hear Moses and the prophets concerning all that was said of Jesus and you don't hear the Gospel of John or anything else in the New Testament. I do. So what difference does it make to you when, where, or how the Gospel of John was written? You wouldn't believe it anyway, right?
Peace
No one is saying you should switch from Islam to Greek Mythology. To my knowledge, there are no Greek mythologists on this board suggesting that.
What I suggest is that you will have to pay for every single sin you ever committed, in word, thought, or deed, if you don't accept Jesus' payment for you. Every sin must be paid for, by someone---either the person who committed it, or by Jesus. And don't think because you have big numbers of people believing like you, that you must be right, "for broad is the way that leads to destruction, and MANY there be that go in thereat" (Matt. 7:13).
Peace
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Again, I'll take my chances... and I have already taken enough philosophy courses in my undergrad to draw the similarities myself between Christianity and Greek myth-- I don't need a Greek philosopher to draw the conclusion for me.... Let me add further, that if I wanted to read the bible, which by the way I do. I do it in Arabic... is it any wonder those who are Christian in the Arab world don't follow your brand of Christianity?.. what they call 50% new and improved.
I hate to disappoint you.. maybe not a disappointment at all? but what you quote or don't quote is completely inconsequential to me. If you can't sell it to Jews, you can't sell it to Muslims! Simply it is like going backwards... Now that Jesus is paying for your sins, do you go back to following Moses or Noah?
peace!
I hate to disappoint you.. maybe not a disappointment at all? but what you quote or don't quote is completely inconsequential to me. If you can't sell it to Jews, you can't sell it to Muslims! Simply it is like going backwards... Now that Jesus is paying for your sins, do you go back to following Moses or Noah?
peace!
Is that how you see the judgment, "panic...among people"? I suppose at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev. 20:11-15), that might be the case, where the dead, who do not have their names written in the Book of Life, will be judged for every single sin they have ever committed, in word, thought, or deed, and then cast into the Lake of Fire.
By contrast, the Christian's judgment will be much different. In this present life, we are told we can "come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need" (Heb. 4:16). Christians can approach the Lord as their Heavenly Father, just as a small child runs to its daddy. There is a boldness, because their sins have been forgiven, paid for, and they know He loves them, that love having been shown to the max at Calvary.
Jesus preoccupied? No, He will be on the throne doing the judging (John 5:22-23). He already paid for sins at Calvary, and will have completed His intercessory role on our behalf at the Father's right hand during this life (1 John 2:1-2; Heb. 7:25). At the judgment of believers, including Mary, He will be on the throne judging believers' works and giving rewards for them (1 Cor. 3:11-15; Rom. 14:10).
Peace
No, I go onward, serving Jesus. Why would I go back and follow Moses or Noah just because my sins are paid for? I'm not following your logic, if there is any.
When the early Christians preached the Gospel, not all the Jews "bought" it. Not all the Gentiles "bought" it either. That was common then and it is common now. Some believe, some don't. So what? Acts 28: 24 says, "And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not."
You believe not. That's your choice.
Peace
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Yes you go on serving Jesus and I go on serving he who created Jesus... it is as simple as that... The final Message and the religion with G-D is Islam!
like wise whether you believe or not it is your choice..
Hope we are done here?
peace!
like wise whether you believe or not it is your choice..
Hope we are done here?
peace!
vpb
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Go then with you way
Surah Maryam:
88. They say: "((Allah)) Most Gracious has begotten a son!"
89. Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!
90. At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,
91. That they should invoke a son for ((Allah)) Most Gracious.
92. For it is not consonant with the majesty of ((Allah)) Most Gracious that He should beget a son.
93. Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to ((Allah)) Most Gracious as a servant.
94. He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly.
95. And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment.
Surah An-Nisa:
171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
172. Christ disdaineth nor to serve and worship Allah, nor do the angels, those nearest (to Allah): those who disdain His worship and are arrogant,-He will gather them all together unto Himself to (answer).
173. But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, He will give their (due) rewards,- and more, out of His bounty: But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish with a grievous penalty; Nor will they find, besides Allah, any to protect or help them.
Surah As-Saaffat:
149. Now ask them their opinion: Is it that thy Lord has (only) daughters, and they have sons?-
150. Or that We created the angels female, and they are witnesses (thereto)?
151. Is it not that they say, from their own invention,
152. "(Allah) has begotten children"? but they are liars!
153. Did He (then) choose daughters rather than sons?
154. What is the matter with you? How judge ye?
155. Will ye not then receive admonition?
156. Or have ye an authority manifest?
157. Then bring ye your Book (of authority) if ye be truthful!
158. And they have invented a blood-relationship between Him and the Jinns: but the Jinns know (quite well) that they have indeed to appear (before his Judgment- Seat)!
159. Glory to Allah. (He is free) from the things they ascribe (to Him)!
160. Not (so do) the Servants of Allah, sincere and devoted.
Surah Al-Isra:
111. Say: "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: yea, magnify Him for His greatness and glory!"
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Redeemed
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I said you are ascribing to Allah a partner for a few reasons. For instance, your honor for the prophet is unprecedented through out Biblical history. God never had the children of God say believe in Jehovah and His messenger Moses or God and his messenger Abraham or even God and John the Baptist who was the greatest of all spiritual men that ever walked on the face of this earth next to Jesus, because he was filled with God's spirit at birth. You have made Muhammad partner with Allah in your confession of faith (Shahada). This is not what we do. We do not confess any prophets with God for our salvation or to be a Christian, but you most certainly do. If we confessed a prophet along with God as a part of our confession of faith, a mere man that sins like all the rest of us, we would be guilty of idolatry. You have elevated Muhammad to a place that no other prophet has ever been. There have been many great prophets recorded in the Bible, and not one of them have been ascribe with God through a confession of prayer to show submission to the Lord. People just simply chose to obey or not the word of the Lord through them that is all, and the prophet’s job was over. That is it - period. God never shared His glory with a prophet; moreover, he never will. But, that is not so in Islam. I share what God showed me through prayer not from any book. Remember, it is written, “With what measure you judge, it shall be measured unto you.” We love and serve the Lord God creator of heaven and earth and we associate no prophet with Him; He is our God and The Prince of Peace. He can be and wants to be yours as well; for God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to the knowledge of truth.
You are loved
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Woodrow
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I said you are ascribing to Allah a partner for a few reasons. For instance, your honor for the prophet is unprecedented through out Biblical history. God never had the children of God say believe in Jehovah and His messenger Moses or God and his messenger Abraham or even God and John the Baptist who was the greatest of all spiritual men that ever walked on the face of this earth next to Jesus, because he was filled with God's spirit at birth. You have made Muhammad partner with Allah in your confession of faith (Shahada). This is not what we do. We do not confess any prophets with God for our salvation or to be a Christian, but you most certainly do. If we confessed a prophet along with God as a part of our confession of faith, a mere man that sins like all the rest of us, we would be guilty of idolatry. You have elevated Muhammad to a place that no other prophet has ever been. There have been many great prophets recorded in the Bible, and not one of them have been ascribe with God through a confession of prayer to show submission to the Lord. People just simply chose to obey or not the word of the Lord through them that is all, and the prophet’s job was over. That is it - period. God never shared His glory with a prophet; moreover, he never will. But, that is not so in Islam. I share what God showed me through prayer not from any book. Remember, it is written, “With what measure you judge, it shall be measured unto you.” We love and serve the Lord God creator of heaven and earth and we associate no prophet with Him; He is our God and The Prince of Peace. He can be and wants to be yours as well; for God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to the knowledge of truth.
You are loved
You are also loved.
As Shakespeare wrote "Methinks he doth protest too much." From the sounds of things you are no longer protesting Islam, you are seeking justifications to keep your own beliefs. Listen to your doubts, they will serve you well and help lead you to the truth. It is God(swt) who is putting your doubts about Christianity into your mind and you should heed them.
Redeemed
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You are bending a very,very powerful flexible rod against its design to face back at me what I shared. There is so much tension on that rod that you will tire of holding it against its design just before it springs back to hurt, but remember, it is written, "Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful"
Peace and love to you:thumbs_up
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There is no rod.. there is only Al3rwata alwathqa, la infisam laha
[Pickthal 2:256] There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower
Seems you are the one holding rods and stick, so brittle, they fall apart with one word...
peace!
قَد تَّبَيَّنَ الرُّشْدُ مِنَ الْغَيِّ فَمَنْ يَكْفُرْ بِالطَّاغُوتِ وَيُؤْمِن بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ اسْتَمْسَكَ بِالْعُرْوَةِ الْوُثْقَىَ لاَ انفِصَامَ لَهَا وَاللّهُ سَمِيعٌ عَلِيمٌ {
[Pickthal 2:256] There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower
Seems you are the one holding rods and stick, so brittle, they fall apart with one word...
peace!
Woodrow
May Allah have mercy on him رحمة الله عليه
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There is no rod, there is no tension. You sound very much like I did at one time. I put up a very strong fight against Islam until Allah(swt) woke me up.
All of my protesting and denial was just me being afraid to let loose of my "old comfort zone" and take a plunge of pure faith. Well, to be honest it was not so much of a plunge as it was a feeling of being embraced with pure love.
The point is that a Muslim is one who submits his will to that of Allah. We know what the Will of Allah is for our worship and our lives through Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). If we did not have that as a reference point we would be left to our own speculation as to how to worship Allah. For example, where do Christians find the directives for their worship services?
So, yes, to be a Muslim today one must testify that Muhammad (pbuh) is the Messenger of Allah. In no sense of the concept is this ascribing partners with Allah as you claim.
What is your reference? If you did not actually write this, then this post is plagarism. If you did write it, how did you get so close to Allah that he talks to you?
(sarcasm) If Chrstians are "saved" by the blood of Jesus, what's there to fear? Punishment of sin? Hell? Allah's Wrath?
Good answer from the Christian persepective.
I would say there is some truth in what you wrote, but Allah's judgement of good and evil is so superior to our present understanding that none of us can stand up and say "I know that I am going to Heaven because I said all of my obligatory and superogatory prayers perfectly, I fasted during every Ramaddan....." A very important point is our intentions. A person may have even died during jihad and thought that he was a martyr (guaranteed Paradise), but he may have been fighting so that he would gain praise from his family and friends and not for the sake of Allah.
But is this security of salvation real or imagined?
Based on the Bible which you BELIEVE to be the Word of God.
The foundation that I stand on is "There is no god, but the One God and Muhammad is His Messenger". On Judgement Day, Allah will judge between us.