Why am I "good"?

[Argamemnon]

'Good as obedience' is the reductionist approach of course is as expected, after all empathy as defined by atheism is nothing more than a mere extension of narcissism-- true goodness is a very evolved trait that requires more ism and less materialism-- it is too much of an abstract for an atheist to wrap his mind around!

Sister, I hardly ever understand your posts. Might be my poor English. I did understand all words in this post, but couldn't make anything of it. Let me try; are you saying that when atheists do something good - such as helping people in need - they do it to please themselves, or feel good about themselves, and in reality do not care about the people they are helping?

 

[جوري]

The fellow is defining 'good' when comes to theists as

'obedience to God (as I suspect many religious folks define it)'

see above for reference!.. and by same token, I am defining Good, in terms of atheism as an extension of narcissism if we are to take the reductionist approach..

whatever the case, I really believe the last few verses of suret Al-kahf are the best response to this thread

• (103) Say: "Shall we tell you who are the greatest losers in whatever they may do?
  
• (104) "[It is] they whose labour has gone astray in [the pursuit of no more than] this world's life, and who none the less think that they are doing good works: (105) it is they who have chosen to deny their Sustainer's messages and the truth;'that they are desEined to meet Him."
  
• Hence, all their [good] deeds come to nought, and no weight shall We assign to them on Resurrection Aay.'0° (106) That will be their recompense - [their] hell -for having denied the truth and made My messages and My apostles a target of their mockery.

 

[Abdiel]

"I have a good conscience and an innate instinct to be kind to my fellow human beings... Perhaps God has decided to create me as a nice person hoping I'll come round to religion at some point! Perhaps goodness is something that can shine through without the influence of the almighty?"

Karina, is the point of life merely to be good?

But first: how can you be sure that the goodness you show does not come from the Almighty, if it is possible that He made you in His own image to begin with? Perhaps God is the source of your conscience and (as you suggested) it is meant to lead you to Him, but not just religion for its own sake?

Yet it says in Paul's letter to the Romans that our consciences alternately affirm and condemn us. Do you think that a good thing you do today can balance out or even erase a bad thing done yesterday? That might make sense, but in practise I don't think it works. If I stole a car one day, and volunteered at a soup kitchen the next I would still go to jail. In Isaiah it says that all our good deeds are like filthy, menstral rags to God. So the bad in our lives always taints the good.

Jesus even said that there are none good except God alone. So when you ask "why am I good," I say you are not, in fact, good at all, just like me. So if we are not good, and cannot become good (because our bad always taints us) then what are we supposed to do? Good news for us: God has made an alternative choice possible through the Death and Resurrection of Christ. Through Him, He can erase our bad and cover us with His own goodness, so that in His eyes we can be perfect (absolutely good), and be adopted as His Sons and Daughters.

So the point of life is not just to be "good," but to enjoy and love God.

 

[ZarathustraDK]

An evolutionist would say that the reason you do good things (in this context stuff that benefits yourself and others, even for seemingly altruistic reasons), is because it enhances the individuals chance of survival, makes it more fit.

Teamwork allows groups of individuals to accomplish things which a single individual cannot, so it "pays off" to be nice to your fellow humans, as they're more likely to help you back when you need it. Of course, most normal people do this by instinct (they don't actively think "hey if I help these guys then they must reciprocate").

 

[Karina]

Thank you dear people for your replies. I've not been around for a while so only just got round to looking at this....

I was not seeking answers, simply stimulating polite debate as usual!

 

[Grace Seeker]

Thank you dear people for your replies. I've not been around for a while so only just got round to looking at this....

I was not seeking answers, simply stimulating polite debate as usual!

Mind if I debate the premise itself? You ask, "Why am I good?" in which you assume that the premise that you are "good" is true. But I would like to suggest that "goodness" is a state of being like God with respect to righteousness. By that standard I don't believe that any of us humans -- you, me, not even Muhammad (pbuh) -- is truly good, because if we were then we would be equal to God and none of us qualifies for that distinction. Perhaps by his grace and with God's help we can become "good", but not since Adam chose to go his own way rather than God's way do I think we can say that any of us have been truly "good". Sure, some of us have been "better" than others. But what does that mean if those we measure ourselves by are already known to not be so good in the first place? The only legitimate standard by which we can measure "goodness" is God himself, and when we do this we all fall short.

 

[Qingu]

Mind if I debate the premise itself? You ask, "Why am I good?" in which you assume that the premise that you are "good" is true. But I would like to suggest that "goodness" is a state of being like God with respect to righteousness. By that standard I don't believe that any of us humans -- you, me, not even Muhammad (pbuh) -- is truly good, because if we were then we would be equal to God and none of us qualifies for that distinction. Perhaps by his grace and with God's help we can become "good", but not since Adam chose to go his own way rather than God's way do I think we can say that any of us have been truly "good". Sure, some of us have been "better" than others. But what does that mean if those we measure ourselves by are already known to not be so good in the first place? The only legitimate standard by which we can measure "goodness" is God himself, and when we do this we all fall short.

The problem with this is if we take the Biblical god seriously then we're forced to conclude that slavery and genocide are good things.

In Deuteronomy 20, Yahweh commands you to enslave all the men of cities you conquer—that is, unless they live in the holy land, in which case you are to "let nothing that breathes remain alive." This is the deity who, in Deuteronomy 28, says he will "take delight in your ruin and destruction" if you fail to follow all of his ridiculous laws (including the ones commanding slavery and genocide). Among Yahweh's preferred methods of destroying the disobedient are inflicting a litany of disease-curses, bringing foreign nations to enslave you, and forcing you to eat the flesh of your own miscarried children.

Yahweh is despicable. Aside from his sadism and intolerance, he is the only deity that I am aware of to actually command his followers to commit genocide. While I imagine many bronze-age nomads thought genocide was a-okay, it is hard to imagine an honest modern Christian defining "goodness" in terms of a genocidal deity.

Which is to say, Grace Seeker: I seriously doubt Yahweh is your moral yardstick in any sense at all. Instead, I think this is just theological nonsense that Christians have trained themselves to say, without actually thinking about its implications. But please correct me if your moral yardstick does, in fact, entail a tolerance for genocide and slavery.

 

[Karina]

OK I get the point!

"good" "nice" "pleasant" "kind" "good-hearted" "honourable"

Goodness is many things, it's such a broad category which varies from culture to culture. How good is defined is debatable, which is why I put the word in inverted commas!

Personally I don't define myself as "bad", "unpleasant" or "vile", but hey... that's incredibly subjective.

Maybe I should have phrased the question "Why am I not a murder, liar or thief?"

 

[Grace Seeker]

Maybe I should have phrased the question "Why am I not a murder, liar or thief?"

So, why aren't you? Is it by choice, fear of retribution, or just happenstance?

 

[sevgi]

how can you be good when your not asking for forgiveness from God even though you transgress him in hideous ways everyday?


i remind myself before you, and i assure you i never think of myself as good..... even though i do ask forgiveness many times...

How do you know she trangresses God in hideous ways everyday?

She is a good moral being. She has drawn out very moral and somewhat 'Islamic' principles for herself in the context to which she belongs.

Did our prophet not do the same thing before Islam was revealed to him? I don't think it is much of a risk to call our prophet an agnostic, prior to Islam.

I don't know if he drank alcohol. But even if he had, it wasn't forbidden then.

The way you find inner peace is upto you. I know for a fact that many people would fall into depression if they were to 'never believe that they are good'. Perhaps the key is to never think you are 'good enough'. And the OP does mention her flaws. She is well aware of the fact that she is not good enough.

 

[Karl]

everybody is good and evil...something has to die to give us life and we have no choice, we're not solar powered. Dont get too deep in morality you'll go mad.