You know, there's this binge drinking and one may never come out of a coma, but as far as I know there's no binge eating lol so which one is more harmful?
Why are christians and Jews close minded?
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You know, there's this binge drinking and one may never come out of a coma, but as far as I know there's no binge eating lol so which one is more harmful?
Search for "Binge eating" in Google. Not only is "binge eating" a well-known phrase but it gives only slightly fewer results than "binge drinking" does. And it's not a question of whether one is more harmful than another (that is a red herring) - the question is whether alcohol consumption is intrinsically wrong or whether (like with food) consumption in moderation is OK.
So do you think we should forward these drinks to teenagers? and kids why not? :rollseyes
I really do not understand why you defend drinking alcohol. Don't you see the effects on the humans? don't you see the youth? don't you see the car accidents due to drink-driving? and so on! I guess, you gotta feel it on your own, then you'll know it why alcohol is harmful. There's a proverb in German: "Wer nicht hören will, muss fühlen!" --> If you don't want to listen, find out the hard way 
We don't feed babies solid food until they are sufficiently developed. It is the same with alcohol. Unless someone is both physically developed enough to consume alcohol safely and mature enough to drink wisely then they shouldn't drink alcohol.
I defend drinking alcohol in moderation. I deplore drinking it in excess and drinking unwisely. You are setting up a straw man.I really do not understand why you defend drinking alcohol. Don't you see the effects on the humans? don't you see the youth? don't you see the car accidents due to drink-driving? and so on! I guess, you gotta feel it on your own, then you'll know it why alcohol is harmful. There's a proverb in German: "Wer nicht hören will, muss fühlen!" --> If you don't want to listen, find out the hard way
Why is that? A 16-year-old isn't a kid anymore. They could drink "moderately" and "safely and wisely" as you said. Do I have to dig statistics to show how mature adults consume alcohol "safely and wisely"?
If a 16-year-old is sufficiently physically developed and willing and able to drink responsibly then I have no issue with that. What I take issue with is people who are unwilling but able to drink responsibly. Alcohol (like food, sex, or pretty much anything else that is intrinsically good) can be harmful when misused. What I am saying (and what the Bible teaches) is that it is the misuse of alcohol that is wrong, not alcohol itself.
Rabi Mansur
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If I might, can I defend the Christians and Jews? I think the point is well taken that the bible has teachings that are against excessive alcohol and teachings that allow for consumption. The teachings against alcohol tend to discourage drunkeness, excessive drinking, etc. In the OT the only teaching that outright says don't drink at all applies to those taking a Nazarite vow. The Jews have a long history of wine being involved in worship and it is not forbidden anywhere in the Torah (at least I've never read anything like that).
OTOH Paul told Timothy in the NT to drink a little wine for his belly from time to time. Jesus turned water into wine. As part of the Lord's supper, they drank wine. Jesus was criticized because his disciples did not fast but they were eating and drinking. Wine has always been a part of the Eucharist and is not outright forbidden anywhere in the NT. And as a side note, if it is called wine, then it has alchohol by definition.
So, is it any wonder that Jews and Christians allow for responsible consumption of alcohol? They condemn drunkeness of course and excessive drinking has always been condemned.
Now, along comes Muhammad pbuh some 600 or so years after Jesus. In the early years of his being a prophet, alcohol was not outright condemned IIRC. Later, based on what was revealed to him in the Qur'an alcohol was forbidden. And his followers in Madinah were willing to pour out their alcohol and follow the Messenger of Allah. As the final Messenger, he revealed Allah's will and this IMHO abrogated what was previously revealed. This was based on new scripture.
Any good Muslim will avoid alcohol because he follows what is written in the Qur'an and what was taught by Muhammad pbuh.
But since the Christians and Jews do not believe in the Qur'an they follow what is written in the Bible. And the Bible does not outright disallow alcohol. Pretty simple really.
I don't think it does any good to call Christians and Jews close-minded. If anything it reflects on the one who insists on calling them close-minded.
:wa:
On what grounds would you say that a responsible and sufficiently physically developed human being should not drink alcohol?
Excessive alcohol causes addiction. So does food. When eaten excessively.
On the grounds that I love my child and don't want him to lose his brain.
http://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/effects-of-alcohol-2
http://www.drinkaware.co.uk/facts/health-facts
????? Do you support smoking and drugs as well? ^^
EDIT: I'm sorry I meant moderate* smoking and drugs.
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Do you understand the distinction I have been consistently making between consumption of alcohol and excessive consumption of alcohol? Do you understand that those articles talk about the harmful effects of excessive consumption of alcohol not consumption of alcohol? Drinking in moderation doesn't cause "brain loss".
No, because there is no difference between smoking and smoking excessively (and the same with drugs).
So those things listed don't occur with consumption of alcohol?
There is a difference with smoking once a week and daily. You may be interested in this brother's posts about marihuana:
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134298622-marijuana-islam-my-life.html
EDIT: I should probably go to sleep now. I'll respond to you tomorrow insha'Allah.
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nousername
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If I might, can I defend the Christians and Jews? I think the point is well taken that the bible has teachings that are against excessive alcohol and teachings that allow for consumption. The teachings against alcohol tend to discourage drunkeness, excessive drinking, etc. In the OT the only teaching that outright says don't drink at all applies to those taking a Nazarite vow. The Jews have a long history of wine being involved in worship and it is not forbidden anywhere in the Torah (at least I've never read anything like that).
OTOH Paul told Timothy in the NT to drink a little wine for his belly from time to time. Jesus turned water into wine. As part of the Lord's supper, they drank wine. Jesus was criticized because his disciples did not fast but they were eating and drinking. Wine has always been a part of the Eucharist and is not outright forbidden anywhere in the NT. And as a side note, if it is called wine, then it has alchohol by definition.
So, is it any wonder that Jews and Christians allow for responsible consumption of alcohol? They condemn drunkeness of course and excessive drinking has always been condemned.
Now, along comes Muhammad pbuh some 600 or so years after Jesus. In the early years of his being a prophet, alcohol was not outright condemned IIRC. Later, based on what was revealed to him in the Qur'an alcohol was forbidden. And his followers in Madinah were willing to pour out their alcohol and follow the Messenger of Allah. As the final Messenger, he revealed Allah's will and this IMHO abrogated what was previously revealed. This was based on new scripture.
Any good Muslim will avoid alcohol because he follows what is written in the Qur'an and what was taught by Muhammad pbuh.
But since the Christians and Jews do not believe in the Qur'an they follow what is written in the Bible. And the Bible does not outright disallow alcohol. Pretty simple really.
I don't think it does any good to call Christians and Jews close-minded. If anything it reflects on the one who insists on calling them close-minded.
:wa:
This is what I was trying to say when I posted, but you said it much better than me. Alcohol was not implicitly forbidden until the time of Prophet Mohamed pbuh.
Suzeteo, you try to justify this saying it's only dangerous on excess. But what do you mean by excess? You know, drinking alcohol for ten years on a daily basis and even if it's little, it's still excessive. You know there's no benchmark of excess, so everyone could drink the he wants and say "hey this ain't excessive". Everyone has got their own benchmark, so do not justify it with excess. All in all, everyone knows it drugs and alcohol are harmful.
No, not in general. Only excessive drinking (as shown by the phrases "heavy drinking", "too much alcohol", etc. in the articles) has harmful effects.
Yes there is a difference in degree (just as increasing alcohol intake above a certain level increases the number and severity of harmful effects), but any amount of smoking, no matter how infrequently, is damaging (and the same with marijuana).
I'm starting to mess up my quotes now, so probably the same for me! Thanks for the discussion, and look forward to more.
glo
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@Glo:
Yep, for sure, Jesus - peace be upon him - drank wine.
Friede sei mit Dir, Brasco
I am not sure how you can know what I do and don't believe. Do you have special powers?
As you can see, it was MrKhan who first mentioned that Jesus drank wine. So it seems that he, as a Muslim, also believes that Jesus drank wine ... but somehow it was special non-alcoholic wine ...
The point I was making is that wine - by it's definition - is an alcoholic drink.
If it wasn't, it would be grape juice.
I think other people have pointed out rightly that the drinking of alcohol was permitted in the Old Testament. People did drink alcohol, apart from those who had taken special vows.
Prohibiting the consumption of alcohol was only eventually introduced by Muhammad, it had not been a law before then.