Why British Muslim women struggle to find a marriage partner

[Muezzin]

The point people are trying to make is that if both the man and the woman are pious, of good moral character, attracted to each other and actually want to get married etc, it's not for any third party to prevent them from marrying.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

The Prophet ( Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) is clear in his advice to us regarding what we should look for in a suitor and that is that we should look for a person who has piety and good character. The Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi Wassallam) was the best anti racism campaigners in those days when racism and jahiliyyah (ignorance) was rampant. He did his best to try and eradicate this narrow minded backward thinking and he went a very long way in doing so but it is clear we still have a long way to go to continue in the amazing works and achievements of our beloved Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam).

So let us not fall into jahilliyya or become so narrow minded. As Muslims we do not let cultural biases and restrictions rule our lives rather our deen takes prescidence over everything else. Culture is fine as long as it is not contray to Shariah.

So let us live our lives in accordance to the Quran and Sunnah and not be bound by our cultures to such an extent that we think and do that which is contray to shariah.

 

[CosmicPathos]

The Prophet ( Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) is clear in his advice to us regarding what we should look for in a suitor and that is that we should look for a person who has piety and good character. The Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi Wassallam) was the best anti racism campaigners in those days when racism and jahiliyyah (ignorance) was rampant. He did his best to try and eradicate this narrow minded backward thinking and he went a very long way in doing so but it is clear we still have a long way to go to continue in the amazing works and achievements of our beloved Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam).

I agree with all of that.
Your logical fallacy is that you are saying my preferences are racist when I am not discriminating against any race.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

I agree with all of that.
Your logical fallacy is that you are saying my preferences are racist when I am not discriminating against any race.

I never said you are racist brother for I just made general statements. Please do not become defensive. The point I am trying to make to you is that when you write off somebody that is a good suitor for your son or daughter and you are happy in that he or she has piety and you are happy with their character then what reason do you have to reject them apart from race or nationality?

The Prophet (Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam) is clear in the hadith when he says do not reject a person if you are happy with their character and piety. Meaning that we should not reject them for other reasons like "our honour" what others may think or just because he is not from the same caste, region, nationality or race.

 

[joyous fairy]

My parents did not pass on that mentality. But they did make sure they pass on the mentality that if I have to choose between my parents or my wife, i choose my parents. If situations come in my life where I cannot fulfill rights of my wife, I have the option to divorce her. Fair enough, God wont punish me for not fulfilling her rights since she wont be my wife anymore and I would have divorced her. I cannot "divorce" my parents.

Thats good then Alhamdulillah.

 

[joyous fairy]

I agree with all of that.
Your logical fallacy is that you are saying my preferences are racist when I am not discriminating against any race.

Sorry brother, but when you say you will not allow your daughter to marry from outside your own culture, that is discrimination, no?

And at the end of the day its your daughter marrying them, not you. So why do you get to make the final choice?

I still have not heard a reasonable explanation for you not allowing your daughter to marry outside of your race/culture.

I, myself would want to marry a Pakistani, because I am one too, but I would not rule out someone who isnt. I just feel I'd get on better with them and with being from a similar background, probably understand them more.

Can I ask, which country are you living in?

 

[CosmicPathos]

Sorry brother, but when you say you will not allow your daughter to marry from outside your own culture, that is discrimination, no?

How is that discrimination? Was that guy born with Divine right to marry MY daughter? I choose to decide whom I'd let my daughter be married off too (of course after she agrees).

Plus this is irrational argument. You agree that I should not let me daughter be married off to a drunkard gangster right? So by your logic, I am discriminating against drunkard gangsters by not giving them a chance to marry my daughter.

 

[CosmicPathos]

And at the end of the day its your daughter marrying them, not you. So why do you get to make the final choice?

because I'd be the Wali. My job is to make sure that my daughter spends her future life with ease and not in misery, and that she marries the right person who I approve. A wali's approval depends on many factors, such as thinking well of his daughter, thinking of possible grand children, thinking of extending relationship with in-laws, establishing ties etc etc, and not just mere love at first sight sort of immature thing.

If my daughter marries lets say a Scottish Muslim, my grand children will be Muslim and Scottish. What if I want to keep my lineage Muslim and Rajput?

Can I ask, which country are you living in?

I live in Canada.

 

[CosmicPathos]

It is a well known for that although Umar Bin Khattab (ra) was among the best of men he was also quite a strong and harsh in character. So you could say his character was just not for everyone.

I was rethinking about this bro, and I have to say that something is really wrong with the person who prefers their own wishes/likes over being blessed to marry someone who as guaranteed Jannah. Umm Kalthoom bint Abu Bakr was a daughter of sahaabi and I am sure she had very strong emaan, but rejecting a person (umar bin khattab!) who is guaranteed Jannah because of her personal "desires about easy life" is probably not an ideal way of a Muslim. Am I right? Is not a Muslim's goal to maximize his/her chance of getting into Jannah and not following our desires? And what better way of increasing chances by being married to a Jannati?

 

[Tyrion]

How is that discrimination?

How is it not?


dis·crim·i·na·tion   [dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
an act or instance of discriminating.
2.
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

 

[CosmicPathos]

How is it not?


dis·crim·i·na·tion   [dih-skrim-uh-ney-shuhn] Show IPA
noun
1.
an act or instance of discriminating.
2.
treatment or consideration of, or making a distinction in favor of or against, a person or thing based on the group, class, or category to which that person or thing belongs rather than on individual merit: racial and religious intolerance and discrimination.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/discrimination

I guess then we all Muslims discriminate against kaafirs, drunkards, bisexuals, cuz after all we wont let our daughters be married to them.

 

[Tyrion]

I guess then we all Muslims discriminate against kaafirs, drunkards, homosexuals, cuz after all we wont let our daughters be married to them.

Sure, but that kind of discrimination is sanctioned by our religion, and is typically not out of arrogance or hatred. It seems that you're suggesting discrimination based on racial preference, which is dangerously close to racism and also opposed to Islamic teachings.

 

[CosmicPathos]

It seems that you're suggesting discrimination based on racial preference, which is dangerously close to racism and also opposed to Islamic teachings.

rest assured it is not out of hatred (I dont need to justify it to you, only God is judge), but out of preference, and expanding ties within ethnicity. If you want to look at it as racism, I dont give a flying rat.
My religion also has not sanctioned on me many things which I still do and to my knowledge, it is not haram to do them.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

I was rethinking about this bro, and I have to say that something is really wrong with the person who prefers their own wishes/likes over being blessed to marry someone who as guaranteed Jannah. Umm Kalthoom bint Abu Bakr was a daughter of sahaabi and I am sure she had very strong emaan, but rejecting a person (umar bin khattab!) who is guaranteed Jannah because of her personal "desires about easy life" is probably not an ideal way of a Muslim. Am I right? Is not a Muslim's goal to maximize his/her chance of getting into Jannah and not following our desires? And what better way of increasing chances by being married to a Jannati?

Brother i had not previously looked into the marriage of Umm Kulthoom and Umar before in any detail and after having done some research on the topic it is clear that most Sunni even shia sources are in agreement that the marriage between the daughter of Ali (Ra) Umme Kulthoom and Umar (ra) definately did take place. So i would like to see where you got your sources from regarding this.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Brother i had not previously looked into the marriage of Umm Kulthoom and Umar before in any detail and after having done some research on the topic it is clear that most Sunni even shia sources are in agreement that the marriage between the daughter of Ali (Ra) Umme Kulthoom and Umar (ra) definately did take place. So i would like to see where you got your sources from regarding this.

Bro, jazakAllah.
Yes, there are two umm kalthoom. Umm Kalthoom Bint Abu Bakr, and Umm Kalthoom Bint Ali. Umar (ra) married Ali's (ra) daughter after Abu Bakr's (ra) daughter rejected the offer.

 

[joyous fairy]

How is that discrimination? Was that guy born with Divine right to marry MY daughter? I choose to decide whom I'd let my daughter be married off too (of course after she agrees).

Plus this is irrational argument. You agree that I should not let me daughter be married off to a drunkard gangster right? So by your logic, I am discriminating against drunkard gangsters by not giving them a chance to marry my daughter.

You dont seem to understand what discrimination is. You are not giving guys from other races a chance just because they are from a different background.

Of course, you would not marry your daughter off to a drunkard because he is a drunkard! He was not born that way and he can easily try and change that. You cant change your race/culture just like that.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Can we please not become confrontational or get into arguments. State your opinions in a good manner as we should as Muslims. I would rather not throw this thread into the recycled bin.

 

[CosmicPathos]

You are not giving guys from other races a chance just because they are from a different background.

Why should I, under the pretense of giving chance, ruin my daughter's life, when I know that interracial marriages bring lots of problems with them more often than not? There is some evidence for it, read on.

I do not want to discourage any one of you from having an interracial marriage if that is what you want, and may Allah swt bless your marriage, but please do not impose your views on me.

Here is a good reading:

Abstract: The literature on interracial families has examined social stigmas attached to interracial relationships but
has not thoroughly documented whether crossing racial boundaries increases the risk of divorce. Using the 2002
National Survey of Family Growth (Cycle VI), we compare the likelihood of divorce for interracial couples to that
of same-race couples. Comparisons across marriage cohorts reveal that, overall, interracial couples have higher rates
of divorce, particularly for those marrying during the late-1980s. We also find race and gender variation. Compared
to White/White couples, White female/Black male, and White female/Asian male marriages were more prone to
divorce; meanwhile, those involving non-White females and White males and Hispanics and non-Hispanic persons
had similar or lower risks of divorce.

Bratter and King, Family Relations, 57 (April 2008), 160–171. Blackwell Publishing.
Copyright 2008 by the National Council on Family Relations.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3729.2008.00491.x/pdf

 

[joyous fairy]

because I'd be the Wali. My job is to make sure that my daughter spends her future life with ease and not in misery, and that she marries the right person who I approve. A wali's approval depends on many factors, such as thinking well of his daughter, thinking of possible grand children, thinking of extending relationship with in-laws, establishing ties etc etc, and not just mere love at first sight sort of immature thing.

If my daughter marries lets say a Scottish Muslim, my grand children will be Muslim and Scottish. What if I want to keep my lineage Muslim and Rajput?



I live in Canada.

Yes you have the right, but you should consider what your daughter wants more than what you want. And yes, you want your kids to be happy which is exactly why you need to think about what they want. If you say to them 'sorry you cant marry a non-Paki' thats not necessarily looking out for their happiness because you dont know the guys yet.

And what would be wrong with being a Scottish Muslim? Your lineage will change no matter what anyway. Pakistan has not always been Pakistan, for instance.

So youre Canadian, your kids will be Canadian then if you dont go somewhere else. They wont be fully Pakistani. im a British Muslim, I see myself as that but my ethnic origin is Pakistani. Your daughter will still see her ethnic origin as Pakistani so you shouldnt worry about that.

 

[joyous fairy]

Why should I, under the pretense of giving chance, ruin my daughter's life, when I know that interracial marriages bring lots of problems with them more often than not? There is some evidence for it, read on.

I do not want to discourage any one of you from having an interracial marriage if that is what you want, and may Allah swt bless your marriage, but please do not impose your views on me.

Here is a good reading:

Abstract: The literature on interracial families has examined social stigmas attached to interracial relationships but
has not thoroughly documented whether crossing racial boundaries increases the risk of divorce. Using the 2002
National Survey of Family Growth (Cycle VI), we compare the likelihood of divorce for interracial couples to that
of same-race couples. Comparisons across marriage cohorts reveal that, overall, interracial couples have higher rates
of divorce, particularly for those marrying during the late-1980s. We also find race and gender variation. Compared
to White/White couples, White female/Black male, and White female/Asian male marriages were more prone to
divorce; meanwhile, those involving non-White females and White males and Hispanics and non-Hispanic persons
had similar or lower risks of divorce.

Bratter and King, Family Relations, 57 (April 2008), 160–171. Blackwell Publishing.
Copyright 2008 by the National Council on Family Relations.

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1741-3729.2008.00491.x/pdf

ok, JazakAllah Khair, I will read it inshaAllah.

Sorry if I sound harsh or anything, I dont mean to. I just dont understand where you are coming from because you have not met the future guys who may want to marry your future daughter inshaAllah lol.