Why Christianity is False

[Umar001]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Unfortunately, you're not in a position to take the high moral ground here. The punishment for apostasy in Islam is also death.

Well I'll at least take it head on that I believe that.

Also have you read the conditions for the way the punishment is carried out? That's interesting too. Maybe on that note I do have a position to take the Moral High Ground.

 

[Qingu]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

i think you made a spellin mistake in your name mate

dont you mean pingu :embarrass
....

NOBODY calls me Pingu! NOBODY!

Take it back!

 

[Qingu]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Well I'll at least take it head on that I believe that.

Also have you read the conditions for the way the punishment is carried out? That's interesting too. Maybe on that note I do have a position to take the Moral High Ground.

What are the conditions for killing unbelievers and apostates in Islam? Or are you referring to the way the unbeliever is killed? Beheading, as opposed to stoning?

I guess if I had to be killed for the crime of not believing in a 1,500 year old book written by desert nomads, I would prefer to be beheaded rather than stoned to death. That's quite a moral high ground Islam has!

 

[glo]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Jesus was very clear that one has to adhere to the law or they would not make it into heaven.

His words:

7 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

I am by no means a Bible scholar, but I think to just look at this passage on its own is too simplistic ...

When I look at Jesus' own examples throughout his life I see that I have to look deeper.

On several occasions is Jesus himself reported to have broken the laws:
He broke the Sabbath laws by healing on the Sabbath and instructing a healed man to carry his own mat on the Sabbath.
He broke the cleanliness laws by allowing his disciples to eat without first washing their hands.
He intervened and prevented the stoning of an adulteress.
(These are just a few that spring to mind at 11.30 a night ...)

So how then can Jesus tell us to keep the law, if he didn't himself???!

Reading through the gospel, the entire message of Jesus' teaching seems to be that it is never good enough to 'just obey the law for the sake of obeying it' ...
Compassion for his fellow men seems to overrule the law alone:

At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to him, "Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath."
He answered, "Haven't you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that one greater than the temple is here. If you had known what these words mean, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the innocent. For the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath."
(Matthew 12: 1-8)

He said to them, "If any of you has a sheep and it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will you not take hold of it and lift it out? How much more valuable is a man than a sheep! Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath." (Matthew 12: 11-12)

Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath." (Mark 2:27-28)

Jesus also said that all the laws could be compressed into these two:

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
(Mark 12: 29-31)

On the sermon of the Mount Jesus tells us how far we really have to go to obey the law. Just following the letter by far isn't enough:
He equates looking at a woman lustfully with committing adultery - punishable by death according to the Law.
He equates having angry thoughts about another person with committing murder - also punishable by death according to the Law.
He tells us to turn the other cheek, to walk the extra mile, to forgive, to love not just our friends but our enemies too, and to not judge others unless we are perfect ourselves ...

In short, he asks what is humanly impossible!
Who has not ever coveted something that wasn't his?
Who has not had judgmental thoughts about others?
Who has not had angry thoughts about others?

The bottom line of Christ's message is this:
We cannot do it. None of us can! If entering the kingdom of heaven is dependent on us adhering to all those laws, then we are all in trouble!
Without God's grace and mercy we cannot get there!

That's not to say that we shouldn't strive to keep the laws.
In fact I would say that following God fills you with the desire to do so.
But however hard we try, we will never be good enough in our own strength ...

Here endeth the sermon!
Gotta stop rambling now.

Peace

 

[Qingu]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Jesus justified his breaking the laws because he is God.

Also: do you think it is immoral to own slaves and kill unbelievers? I mean, I recognize that Christians are no longer obliged to follow the laws, because you don't have to follow laws to be saved anymore. But would it be wrong to follow them? Shouldn't we try to follow them the best we can?

 

[BlackMamba]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

There is not ONE unequivocal statement in the entire Bible that has Jesus saying he is God and ordering people to worship him. Not ONE. can u believe this, and this is wat Christians base their entire religion on. LOL. And in fact, there are many verses in the bible that point towards Islamic monotheism. Quotes from Jesus saying that only God is all-powerful. In our Quran, it says time and time again that Allah is one and to worship only Allah.

 

[glo]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Jesus justified his breaking the laws because he is God.

Nice to see an atheist state that Jesus is God. Halleluja!!

Also: do you think it is immoral to own slaves and kill unbelievers?

Are you asking me personally?
Then the answer most certainly is, yes, I do think it is immoral ...

I mean, I recognize that Christians are no longer obliged to follow the laws, because you don't have to follow laws to be saved anymore. But would it be wrong to follow them? Shouldn't we try to follow them the best we can?

If you read my above post you will hopefully understand my own position on this. If not, then I am not sure what else to say. I don't think I can explain it any better ...

Perhaps these sentences from my previous post sum it up best;

Reading through the gospel, the entire message of Jesus' teaching seems to be that it is never good enough to 'just obey the law for the sake of obeying it' ...
Compassion for his fellow men seems to overrule the law alone

and

"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.' The second is this: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no commandment greater than these."
(Mark 12: 29-31)

Now, this is my personal understanding only. There may be Christians who would disagree with me - I cannot speak for those. I can only speak for myself.

I believe (according to what I wrote earlier) that we have the responsibility to seek God's will in every situation. That requires much more than just following a set of laws, and ticking them off as you go along ...

I am aware that if I felt so inclined I would not have to search long in scripture to find verses which seem to support hatred and threats against homosexuals, adulterers, non-believers, sinners in any way shape or form, etc, etc.
Some people do just that. Most don't. I certainly don't.

Through prayer and through the example of Jesus I just don't believe that is the right way.
That is my personal understanding and I take personal responsiblity for it.
I believe that one day I will have to justify myself before God for it.

And should he say "Why didn't you stone prostitutes and homosexuals like I instructed you?" or "Didn't I tell you clearly that Muhammed was my last Prophet?" - then all I can say is "Lord, I did the best I could to my best understanding ..."

I am not sure I have answered your question, but it has been very useful for me to ponder.
Thanks for bearing with me. I do have a habit of rambling ...

Peace

 

[glo]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

There is not ONE unequivocal statement in the entire Bible that has Jesus saying he is God and ordering people to worship him. Not ONE. can u believe this, and this is wat Christians base their entire religion on. LOL. And in fact, there are many verses in the bible that point towards Islamic monotheism. Quotes from Jesus saying that only God is all-powerful. In our Quran, it says time and time again that Allah is one and to worship only Allah.

I do not usually resort to copying and pasting from internet sites - it is much more fun searching scripture for myself.
But today, on Christmas Eve, I am quite busy with other preparations, so I will make an exception.
Incidentally, it is something we have discussed in this section so many times, that I will just leave thos post standing as it is, rather than getting into lengthy debates about it ...

Question: "Is Jesus God? Did Jesus ever claim to be God?"

Answer: Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30). John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!" Again, in response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God?

John 1:1 says that “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh.” This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, "...Be shepherds of the church of God, which He bought with His own blood." Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. Acts 20:28 declares that God purchased the church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Thomas the disciple declared concerning Jesus, “Lord and my God” (John 20:28). Jesus does not correct him. Titus 2:13 encourages us to wait for the coming of our God and Savior - Jesus Christ (see also 2 Peter 1:1). In Hebrews 1:8, the Father declares of Jesus, "But about the Son He says, "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever, and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom."

In Revelation, an angel instructed the Apostle John to only worship God (Revelation 19:10). Several times in Scripture Jesus receives worship (Matthew 2:11; 14:33; 28:9,17; Luke 24:52; John 9:38). He never rebukes people for worshiping Him. If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him, just as the angel in Revelation had. There are many other verses and passages of Scripture that argue for Jesus’ deity.

You have to ask yourself, why would Jesus (if he was a prophet from God, rather than God himself) allow people to worship him or make references of deity about him??
That would have been an outrageous sin! In fact so much so that it did outrage the Jews of the time.
It would be shirk! It would be idolatry! As a faithful prophet of God, Jesus would never have allowed this to happen.

Peace

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

I see nothing wrong with God telling us to obey him. God is the reason why we live and continue living. Nothing can be gained by not following him. Life is a test and you follow him to pass it.

Depends on your viewpoint I suppose. I see things like this and come to the conclusion that obedience is far more important to the authors of these books and creators of these religions than morality is. It is always "Do as I say" and "Obey me" and never "Do what is right". THe only time it ever suggests to do what is right is to do so out of obedience, not out of any moral sense.

I see things like the first 5 of the 10 commandments and I come to the conclusion that religion burries morality beneath obedience. That I encounter religious people who actually seem to think that morality can not exist without a "law giver" shows that people are in fact confusing obedience and morality and seem to think that obedience IS morality.

Islam itself means "submitter" I am told. The Torah and Bible both contain plenty of stories about obedience, and few about morality.

Then you have stories like Abraham & Isaac pitting obedience directly against morality and the story doesn't end with Abraham saying "no i will not kill my son, it is wrong" and God saying "Very good Abraham you have passed the test, do what is right not what authority tells you", but instead it ends with "Ok God I'll kill for you" and God saying "oh good you'll do whatever I say no matter how immoral. Ok, I was just kidding. Just wanted to test your loyalty" as if God is some kind of mobster.

The Garden of Eden story also falls into this pattern, in that the "forbidden fruit" described in the Bible is labelled there as "the fruit of knowledge of good and evil", showing that God didn't WANT us to know right from wrong and instead just wanted us to obey him. THe funny bit about this is that somehow he expected Adam and Eve to know its "right" to obey him before they ate of the fruit to tell them right from wrong. They could not have known that God is good (if in fact he is) before eating the fruit yet he still expected their obedience.

I expect this obedience over all else theme has served the religions well (to keep the masses in line) and that is why they thrived and spread and survived to be with us today.

 

[al_islam]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Any one observe the 10 commandments in today's world?

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Well, it does seem that Paul contradicted Jesus in some ways. I am now studying the history of the Christian Church and am wondering if the religion might more aptly be called "Paulism."

If one reads the first two chapters of Galatians with a truly open mind, then one can gain an understanding for the origins of Christianity as tracing back to Paul - not to the teachings of Jesus (as), a Prophet sent to the "lost sheep of Israel".

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

There is a great need in this world to look after God's creation, and that comes down to looking after each other despite all our differences.

See also the parable of the "Good Samaritan" who helped the injured traveler while the priest walked on by.

Or Jesus washing the feet of his disciples, and this has a profound meaning that can be experienced in many churches on the Thursday before Easter.

You rightly focus on the teachings and example of Jesus (as). Were Christians to truly follow, rather than worship, Jesus (as) how different would they be? I suspect that you, along with other Christians such as GraceSeeker, Keltoi, Glo and Caroline truly strive to follow the teachings of Jesus (as) and to live "Christ-like" lives.

 

[aminahjaan]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

How many times was the bible re-written? And how many times was the Quran re-written. Exactly. The Quran was NEVER re-written. The true, book of God to guide us. It states scientific things that have not been discovered since a recent period of time. I can give so many examples. None the less, in Islam, we respect God, we beleive that God is SO great, SO powerful, that none can compare to his strength, so that he can have no child, no family, just ONE. JUST because they were about to stone Jesus, does NOT mean that he claimed to be God. I would prefer not to believe that a human is God. But he had many special miracles, like talking when he was an infant, he wasn't just a man, He was brought up to heaven by God But he doesn't compare to God. If you would like to believe a book that has been changed by many people go ahead. But I believe in a book that has only been from the words of God.

 

[al_islam]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

The Bible was never claimed to be a book written by God and so it contains many erros.

Why would you choose to follow the word of man and not of God.

The Quran was Divine rRvelation and has stood the test of time.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Why do I always hear Christians putting emphasis on the Ten Commandments while the sermon on the mount is hardly ever mentioned?

... and what is the first and most important commandment? Exodus 20:1-5 And God spake all these words, saying, I am Jehovah thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (la ilaha Il'Allah) Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of what is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God... Did Moses, Noah, Abraham or David equate Jesus with God? Does God change? Aren't the images of Jesus and Mary in churches today in fact idols and objects of worship?

See also Mark 12:28-30 And one of the scribes came, and heard them questioning together, and knowing that he had answered them well, asked him, What commandment is the first of all? Jesus answered, The first is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God, the Lord is one (la ilaha Il'Allah) and thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength. Note that Jesus (as) did not follow this with, "Therefore worship me, the Father and the Holy Spirit as the three persons of the One God."

 

[BlackMamba]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Examine these quotes from bible and the tell me if Jesus was god or not.
Jesus saying- " for the Father is greater than I."(John 14:28_
Jesus saying- "My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all" (John 10:29)
Jesus saying- "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." (John 5:30)--Now if someone says that, then they are a Muslim. Jesus Christ (PBUH) was a Muslim!
So what is the deal with these quotes from the bible, they really hint towards Islamic monotheism. What do u guys think.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

... and what is the first and most important commandment? Exodus 20:1-5 And God spake all these words, saying, I am Jehovah thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt have no other gods before me. (la ilaha Il'Allah) Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of what is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God... Did Moses, Noah, Abraham or David equate Jesus with God? Does God change? Aren't the images of Jesus and Mary in churches today in fact idols and objects of worship?

You stress my point for me. These religions are more about obedience to authority than any kind of moral values.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

You stress my point for me. These religions are more about obedience to authority than any kind of moral values.

Yes, the purpose of our religion is first and foremeost to establish the proper beliefs and worship of Allah. However, we are also judged by how we treat our fellow creatures and Islam provides direction on that too.

Quran 107:1-7 Have you seen the one who denies the Day of Judgment? He it is who drives away the orphan with harshness and does not encourage the feeding of the poor. So woe to those who offer Salah (prayers), but are neglectful of their Salah (offer Prayers but disregard the very purpose of establishing Salah - to have the fear of Allah and be mindful to the needs of other people); those who make a show of piety and refuse to share the necessities of life.

Also Hadith Qudsi (Holy Hadith)
O son of Adam, I fell ill and you visited Me not. He will say: O Lord, and how should I visit You when You are the Lord of the worlds? He will say: Did you not know that My servant So-and-so had fallen ill and you visited him not? Did you not know that had you visited him you would have found Me with him? O son of Adam, I asked you for food and you fed Me not. He will say: O Lord, and how should I feed You when You are the Lord of the worlds? He will say: Did you not know that My servant So-and-so asked you for food and you fed him not? Did you not know that had you fed him you would surely have found that (the reward for doing so) with Me? O son of Adam, I asked you to give Me to drink and you gave Me not to drink. He will say: O Lord, how should I give You to drink whin You are the Lord of the worlds? He will say: My servant So-and-so asked you to give him to drink and you gave him not to drink. Had you given him to drink you would have surely found that with Me.

Charity is much emphasized in Islam and we are command to forbid the evil and to enforce the good in our communities.

 

[Imam]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

I do not usually resort to copying and pasting from internet sites - it is much more fun searching scripture for myself.
But today, on Christmas Eve, I am quite busy with other preparations, so I will make an exception.

Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.”

Greetings

You need to read the text, not in a hurry.....

as a matter of fact such passage in not for the Trinity,it is against it...

such passage and others too,have been refuted several times ,

Question: " Did Jesus ever claim in John 10:34 to be God?"


what of the incident in John 10?

Jesus said 'I and the Father are one'. His opponents reply,

"We are stoning you... for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

He defused this charge of blasphemy, By showing that it is not NECESSARILY blasphemy to claim to be God.
Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, `I have said you are gods'? If he called them `gods,' to whom the word of God came - and the Scripture cannot be broken - what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world?"

Surely the thrust of Jesus' reply is clear: if it's not blasphemy for part of their Law (Psalm 82) to call certain people 'gods', surely it is not blasphemy if applied to Jesus.

The meaning of this place may be thus expressed:
"You charge me with blasphemy. The foundation of that charge is the use of the name God, or the Son of God, applied to myself; yet that same term is applied in the Scriptures to magistrates. The use of it there shows that it is right to apply it to those who sustain important offices. And especially you, Jews, ought not to attempt to found a charge of blasphemy on the application of a word to the Messiah which in your own Scriptures is applied to all magistrates."

peace

 

[BlackMamba]

Re: Why Christianity is Fake

Christians and Muslims that want to learn more about this should watch this debate. It is Zakir Naik vs. an Arab Christian Pastor Rukni.
Zakir Naik destroys him lol. Heres the links to part 1 and part 2. But u gotta check this debate out, its real good.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...319&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...319&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1