Why do Christians free mix without zina but we can't....?

[Mustafa16]

I would just like to point out the hypocrisy in this post because you say you can handle not committing zina yet in the same paragraph you say you have obsesssion with the opposite sex I have nothing against you I am not attacking you but your being contradictory I mean just the other day u said you sit there on your pillow and imagine it's a female and rub your private on it so how can you say you can handle zina allah has more wisdom then you don't question it and if you actually research his decision you'll see how wise it is

I see [MENTION=36867]keiv[/MENTION] , nor anybody, bothered to answer my question, and instead choose to continue to feed me the same arguments despite me agreeing with them

 

[Bobbyflay23]

I see [MENTION=36867]keiv[/MENTION] , nor anybody, bothered to answer my question, and instead choose to continue to feed me the same arguments despite me agreeing with them

Here's a answer only allah and understanding to the Quran can help you rverytime u feel erect go pray 2 rukah

 

[Bobbyflay23]

All these "psychotherapy" and yada yada is garbage

 

[Simple_Person]

Let's get back on the defensive side brother he is attacking let us defend let us not attack back

In discussions there are questions and there are answers. A question can be regarded as (attack) and a answer can be regarded as (defense). This however is for logical, rational and reasonable people.

There are in life people that will rant and question and question..for the sake of questioning or to justify (try to corner you) in to wanting to pursue what they desire.

This guys is NOT open for dialogue. When somebody is open for dialogue even if he/she does not agree..they at least have their argument which might be even a good argument. So in such cases we agree to disagree. In his cases, evidence on top of evidence on top of evidence is given..but he just doesn't care for evidence. He just wants to commit zina..that is all what he is interested in.

Now is my question to you or to anybody else, what can you do to prevent somebody from doing that? Talking doesn't help as he has closed his eyes and ears. A lost case is a lost case, admitting defeat is also part of the logical, rational and reasonable person. This guy when he even started this discussion was already on the right path as how he sees himself. So in a discussion the person that has closed his heart for input has already won the discussion as he/she is not willing to listen/ponder/process..etc.

I believe he in another topic said he was lightly autistic. Autistic people tend to not follow feelings, but STRONGLY follow logic, rationality and reason. Yet this even isn't to be found with him.

 

[Simple_Person]

hellllloooo? did you not see my post? im asking if i should not visit that secularist lady or just ask for accomodations????

If you understood just SLIGHTLY what Islam was all about, you would not even have to ask this question. In Islam there is no burden on it. You can visit her..what is there wrong with. Purely Islamic principles is that women and men are not mixed with each other. What prevents you to go outside? Or do something else as your mother and that women will start women-talk..are you that interested in what they have to say?? Or just when you are even in the mixed mode to get a grip on your desires. You can also not tell me that EVERY day you visit such ladies with your mother. Grab your phone go read something on your phone when sitting there..do something ..you make things so black and white as if NO other thing you could do.

That is why i say ponder. Ponder about things and in'sha'Allah, Allah will give you a way out. Listening to Qur'an or anasheed with earpieces in or listening to some beneficial videos youtube that don't necessarily have to be religious. Or if there are other males you could go and hangout with them....THINK..there are so many ways out of it.

However you make yourself like a baby..that isn't able to feed himself..."oooh i am such a victim what Islam is doing to me"-mentality. There are in this day and age SOOO MANY ways one can keep themselves busy, but we have become sheep and only say that we can do one or two things.

 

[Bobbyflay23]

In discussions there are questions and there are answers. A question can be regarded as (attack) and a answer can be regarded as (defense). This however is for logical, rational and reasonable people.

There are in life people that will rant and question and question..for the sake of questioning or to justify (try to corner you) in to wanting to pursue what they desire.

This guys is NOT open for dialogue. When somebody is open for dialogue even if he/she does not agree..they at least have their argument which might be even a good argument. So in such cases we agree to disagree. In his cases, evidence on top of evidence on top of evidence is given..but he just doesn't care for evidence. He just wants to commit zina..that is all what he is interested in.

Now is my question to you or to anybody else, what can you do to prevent somebody from doing that? Talking doesn't help as he has closed his eyes and ears. A lost case is a lost case, admitting defeat is also part of the logical, rational and reasonable person. This guy when he even started this discussion was already on the right path as how he sees himself. So in a discussion the person that has closed his heart for input has already won the discussion as he/she is not willing to listen/ponder/process..etc.

I believe he in another topic said he was lightly autistic. Autistic people tend to not follow feelings, but STRONGLY follow logic, rationality and reason. Yet this even isn't to be found with him.

1.sabr
2.yes it's logical to admit defeat buuutt that doesn't mean there's never hope he has a good heart there's just envy in it if you think about it allah guided him to a community full of Muslims what's his buisness here if all he cares about is sin and doesn't care about Islam I'm pretty sure he'll be guided inshallah
3.ive listened to somthing from nouman ali khan before people like this are not completely arrogant but they just have root problems root problems as in they need accoutciance in Islam and as he's said before he's tried to convert to jewdasiam so I mean he probably has a unsolved root problem nouman ali khan was saying that when you have a root problem if you answer any smaller question like why is pork haram they'll keep switching questions until they made a 360 degree turn and come back to the same question I'm sure we could answer his root problems and then move onto his smaller questions as that would be the most logical I actually have just realized this is probably his problem

 

[Bobbyflay23]

I see [MENTION=36867]keiv[/MENTION] , nor anybody, bothered to answer my question, and instead choose to continue to feed me the same arguments despite me agreeing with them

Mustfa I have a feeling you have a root problem in your faith as you have had a past of questioning it and stuff such as that one time when you tried to convert to become a Jew so we can all answer any question but first let's address your root problem and fix it then we can go to smaller problems I'm sure you've had questions such as why should I be a Muslim and never got the question answered well Islam unlike other faiths has proof and logic and reasoning behind everything although of course some things are part of the unseen like the jinn so if you would like we can move to the private message or we can stay here or we can move to a different forum in case someone ever had a similar problem where would you like to discuss this?

 

[Bobbyflay23]

If you understood just SLIGHTLY what Islam was all about, you would not even have to ask this question. In Islam there is no burden on it. You can visit her..what is there wrong with. Purely Islamic principles is that women and men are not mixed with each other. What prevents you to go outside? Or do something else as your mother and that women will start women-talk..are you that interested in what they have to say?? Or just when you are even in the mixed mode to get a grip on your desires. You can also not tell me that EVERY day you visit such ladies with your mother. Grab your phone go read something on your phone when sitting there..do something ..you make things so black and white as if NO other thing you could do.

That is why i say ponder. Ponder about things and in'sha'Allah, Allah will give you a way out. Listening to Qur'an or anasheed with earpieces in or listening to some beneficial videos youtube that don't necessarily have to be religious. Or if there are other males you could go and hangout with them....THINK..there are so many ways out of it.

However you make yourself like a baby..that isn't able to feed himself..."oooh i am such a victim what Islam is doing to me"-mentality. There are in this day and age SOOO MANY ways one can keep themselves busy, but we have become sheep and only say that we can do one or two things.

Brother stop attacking him seriously if your going to criticize him make it constructive criticizim

 

[azc]

I have known many religious christians and know about many others who free mix with the opposite sex and have girlfriends and boyfriends but dont ever committ zina out of religious belief, or, for young people, a fear of getting diseases or getting a girl pregnant/becoming pregnant and interfering with studies. I knew a girl in my 12th grade class who free mixed with the opposite sex, was Mexican Hispanic, and got accepted into Harvard and will even be paid A STIPEND for going to UNDERGRAD. I know her friend, who is also a top student, and free mixes but commented that people who fornicate at this age (young adulthood/teenhood) are ruining their futures. I had a blue-collar, Republican-surrounded-by-Republican bus driver (who even watches such fox news morons as sean hannity) and says she tells her kids they dont have to go to college, and is very religious (as you can infer by her demographic) who seems shocked that muslims dont even talk to the opposite sex for fear of zina. i also knew an educated special ed teacher who was an evangelical religious christian (and a republican), who would get shocked when i described gender segregation to her, even as I explained the reasoning wholeheartedly. she even argued with me, saying it is perfectly fine for men and women to be friends.
she is one of the most religious christians i have known. christianity teaches not to fornicate, and its followers have no problem with this, yet we have to get even stricter for the same results, and end up turning the opposite sex into a sex object as a result (and this goes both ways). i also ask because soon, during eid, my mother and i are visiting a non gulenist, secularist turkish woman for eid, and she has a husband, and a daughter around my age (17 or 18, im 18). they probably wont segregate, and my mother doesn't practice it.

Islam stops from free mixing with opposite gender, it's enough.

 

[azc]

Brother stop attacking him seriously if your going to criticize him make it constructive criticizim

OP seems to be influenced by others.

Islamic ruling concerning this issue can't be changed.

In your personal life you're free to do as you wish.

 

[Simple_Person]

1.sabr
2.yes it's logical to admit defeat buuutt that doesn't mean there's never hope he has a good heart there's just envy in it if you think about it allah guided him to a community full of Muslims what's his buisness here if all he cares about is sin and doesn't care about Islam I'm pretty sure he'll be guided inshallah
3.ive listened to somthing from nouman ali khan before people like this are not completely arrogant but they just have root problems root problems as in they need accoutciance in Islam and as he's said before he's tried to convert to jewdasiam so I mean he probably has a unsolved root problem nouman ali khan was saying that when you have a root problem if you answer any smaller question like why is pork haram they'll keep switching questions until they made a 360 degree turn and come back to the same question I'm sure we could answer his root problems and then move onto his smaller questions as that would be the most logical I actually have just realized this is probably his problem

I agree with you with the root problem, however this all starts with thinking and wanting to solve the root problem. As i earlier said he said earlier he was somehow autistic, but people who are autistic would be very black and white in things, but do think when new information is put in the equation. However this he even does not do.

So far he i believe does not acknowledge to have any root problems, secondly does not want to solve things..but rather just want to head his own way.

Anyways, like i earlier said, he just want to follow the desires. I disagree with brother scrimitar on many things, but on some of the things i do fully agree with. The last thing this guy want is to listen to what somebody else has to say.

 

[Simple_Person]

Brother stop attacking him seriously if your going to criticize him make it constructive criticizim

There is constructive criticism, i fully agree with you. This however is for people who want to listen and want to ponder. Many people including i say something, but i am willing to listen to what somebody has to say to me..and more then not i get constructive criticism and i even welcome that, because then i can change things.

This isn't the "first" topic when i tried to have constructive criticism. I never just "attack/criticize" somebody out of the blue. It has a road and many things have happened before it comes to that. If somebody as you most probably have already read earlier in other topics tried to discuss things logically, rationally and reasonably. However in no topic he just sees that he is wrong or somehow. All he does is people must agree with him without even giving solid argument. I criticize his behavior so he might even ponder about what suddenly me coming up with this?

Just imagine..you are walking down the road somebody suddenly coming to you and shouting or criticize you..that would be very awkward..and you would rather ask yourself..what have i done to deserve this? However that is as i said not the case. Things have happened before. Such people need to be put on their place if they do not want to have some civilized discussion.

 

[Umm♥Layth]

You guys REALLY need to work on your belief systems and find a middle ground. The opposite gender is NOT a sex object and if you think that the general population feels this way, you have a rude awakening coming. The only reason it seems like that to you right now is because you are young and still very immature. When you grow up and realize what a great responsibility a woman is, you won't feel the same anymore.

People tend to pay too much attention to what they cannot have instead of looking at what they can have and what they do have. That's why this obsession with the opposite gender happens.

Muslims don't just segregate out of "fear of zina", they segregate out of RESPECT AND HONOR for each other and for themselves. At least, that is how it used to be before society became the way it is today. A good man with the right head on his shoulders will look at a woman with lifelong companionship in mind. THERE ARE GOOD MEN who will save themselves for marriage, believe it. Not everyone falls into this hypersexualization trap.

I come from a hispanic background and my family is very conservative. My cousins had one boyfriend each who they presented to the family and married them. That's typical in traditional hispanic families and is CULTURAL not religious. Hispanic men are expected to ask for the woman's hand in marriage once she presents him to the family, or he will approach the father before being presented to the family. These families also practice segregation at home during parties and get togethers. Women typically stay inside the house and men outside. This is because not everyone is related and it is a way of keeping dignity and respect in the family. This behavior was passed down and is slowly changing because it isn't from religion anymore. Once upon a time it was, but not anymore. That's what happens when we allow culture to take over.

The focus on studies comes from support at home, not from choosing to freemix or not. My cousins all had uni paid for as well, graduated top of their class blah blah. That means nothing as far as freemixing. We are supposed to believe the best of each person, so if they claim they were virgins upon marriage, we have to believe them, but it doesn't mean it is the case. It doesn't means thinsg don't happen behind closed doors and it is extremely naive to believe that men and women can be friends. NEVER has that been the case in the history of humanity, no matter how much you try to justify it. Not because of objectification, but simply because up until 100 years ago, people understood the difference between men and women and they understood that the attraction that can spark between two is STRONG and difficult to stop once it is sparked. Not something you want to play with

Furthermore, you know nothing about a person simply by talking to them. A person who appears religious on the outside can have a huge box of secrets you know nothing about! lol. Don't be naive.

 

[anatolian]

I think we must define the term "free mixing" at first. I see that it is used frequently but I doubt all the ones using the term know its definition at all. I really cant say I know. Is there an Arabic equavelent of it which is mentioned in Quran or sahih hadith?

For example, there are men and women in the same places where I work. Is this considered "free mixing"? If not what is considered ? What are the boundaries ?

 

[azc]

I think we must define the term "free mixing" at first. I see that it is used frequently but I doubt all the ones using the term know its definition at all. I really cant say I know. Is there an Arabic equavelent of it which is mentioned in Quran or sahih hadith?

For example, there are men and women in the same places where I work. Is this considered "free mixing"? If not what is considered ? What are the boundaries ?

From Islamic point of view it's also not allowed but it appears working at the same places isn't objectionable in your eyes.
And this is the point whence differences in opinion come out. Those who're close to mentality of progressive Muslims consider it correct whereas those who strictly follow the shariah disagree with you.

 

[Simple_Person]

From Islamic point of view it's also not allowed but it appears working at the same places isn't objectionable in your eyes.
And this is the point whence differences in opinion come out. Those who're close to mentality of progressive Muslims consider it correct whereas those who strictly follow the shariah disagree with you.

An uncle on this forum a time back gave a very good perspective on even working together. He brought up the time when Musa(as) approached the two ladies and asked them what is going on. They telling him the situation and instead of Musa(as) saying to the two sisters go and still give the animals something to drink among those men that also were giving water to their animals, he instead grabbed those animals and brought them to the place of watering.

That uncle said indeed this shows that even WORKING together is not allowed, which from that perspective i even agreed to it.

 

[anatolian]

In order to decide which is considered what which is not I believe we must firstly define that thing. I have yet to seen a definition of free mixing.

 

[azc]

In order to decide which is considered what which is not I believe we must firstly define that thing. I have yet to seen a definition of free mixing.

How do you define free mixing...?

 

[Bobbyflay23]

Layth;2968268]You guys REALLY need to work on your belief systems and find a middle ground. The opposite gender is NOT a sex object and if you think that the general population feels this way, you have a rude awakening coming. The only reason it seems like that to you right now is because you are young and still very immature. When you grow up and realize what a great responsibility a woman is, you won't feel the same anymore.

People tend to pay too much attention to what they cannot have instead of looking at what they can have and what they do have. That's why this obsession with the opposite gender happens.

Muslims don't just segregate out of "fear of zina", they segregate out of RESPECT AND HONOR for each other and for themselves. At least, that is how it used to be before society became the way it is today. A good man with the right head on his shoulders will look at a woman with lifelong companionship in mind. THERE ARE GOOD MEN who will save themselves for marriage, believe it. Not everyone falls into this hypersexualization trap.

I come from a hispanic background and my family is very conservative. My cousins had one boyfriend each who they presented to the family and married them. That's typical in traditional hispanic families and is CULTURAL not religious. Hispanic men are expected to ask for the woman's hand in marriage once she presents him to the family, or he will approach the father before being presented to the family. These families also practice segregation at home during parties and get togethers. Women typically stay inside the house and men outside. This is because not everyone is related and it is a way of keeping dignity and respect in the family. This behavior was passed down and is slowly changing because it isn't from religion anymore. Once upon a time it was, but not anymore. That's what happens when we allow culture to take over.

The focus on studies comes from support at home, not from choosing to freemix or not. My cousins all had uni paid for as well, graduated top of their class blah blah. That means nothing as far as freemixing. We are supposed to believe the best of each person, so if they claim they were virgins upon marriage, we have to believe them, but it doesn't mean it is the case. It doesn't means thinsg don't happen behind closed doors and it is extremely naive to believe that men and women can be friends. NEVER has that been the case in the history of humanity, no matter how much you try to justify it. Not because of objectification, but simply because up until 100 years ago, people understood the difference between men and women and they understood that the attraction that can spark between two is STRONG and difficult to stop once it is sparked. Not something you want to play with

Furthermore, you know nothing about a person simply by talking to them. A person who appears religious on the outside can have a huge box of secrets you know nothing about! lol. Don't be naive.

As I said no one and I mean no one exposed to this overly sexualized enviorment doesn't have some deep psychological programming deep inside them making them view women differently I would say the average Muslim doesn't have very much and we usually are not aware of the view due to the fact that it's buried deep within us every time we for example are at school and a female try's to flirt with you or is dressed improperly or anything like that and I mean even women have some psychological programming done on them so they act as if women are sexual objects too the Muslim usually has it deep inside them and we will never be able to get rid of it unless we go somewhere like a Muslim land but the kuffar they openly have those views like they are fully aware that they basically view the women as a sexual object they just sortve lie to themselves and think that they don't but then in like a few minutes the same kuffar will be talking about stereotypes to women and only talking about a women's body and things like that what I mean is practicing Muslims also have this view deep inside them but it's soooo minimal that ittl never affect your conicousness it could affect subconscious decisions though and even women have fallen for the trap and it's been scientifically proved by straight up connecting wires to a human beings brain and this isn't just on women some women view men as sexual objects too it just depends on what environment we both are in when we are in a hyper sexualized environment it will change our psychology but that doesn't mean we can't change it and shun those ideas whenever we realize we get a thought like that

 

[Bobbyflay23]

There is constructive criticism, i fully agree with you. This however is for people who want to listen and want to ponder. Many people including i say something, but i am willing to listen to what somebody has to say to me..and more then not i get constructive criticism and i even welcome that, because then i can change things.

This isn't the "first" topic when i tried to have constructive criticism. I never just "attack/criticize" somebody out of the blue. It has a road and many things have happened before it comes to that. If somebody as you most probably have already read earlier in other topics tried to discuss things logically, rationally and reasonably. However in no topic he just sees that he is wrong or somehow. All he does is people must agree with him without even giving solid argument. I criticize his behavior so he might even ponder about what suddenly me coming up with this?

Just imagine..you are walking down the road somebody suddenly coming to you and shouting or criticize you..that would be very awkward..and you would rather ask yourself..what have i done to deserve this? However that is as i said not the case. Things have happened before. Such people need to be put on their place if they do not want to have some civilized discussion.

Chapter (3) sūrat āl ʿim'rān (The Family of Imrān)



Sahih International: So by mercy from Allah , [O Muhammad], you were lenient with them. And if you had been rude [in speech] and harsh in heart, they would have disbanded from about you. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult them in the matter. And when you have decided, then rely upon Allah. Indeed, Allah loves those who rely [upon Him].



If your kind and he doesn't follow along then it won't make a difference if your rude I don't know what's in the brothers heart but I do know that anyone who truly is arrogant will just get more arrogant when your rude to them

I'm not acting like a angle often times I will do the same thing like it's possible I've done it on Islamic board and not realized it or the times that I've done it to my dad by arguing and screaming at eachover and stuff but like I've acknowledged it and am after every situation trying to fix it and stuff inshallah one day I can have a bunch of sabr for that is probably one of the most important things for a Muslim to have