Why do muslims use the bible if they don't 'believe' in it?

[westcoast]

^also, in the hadiths it states that muhammad split the moon and that this was a miracle of his, yet as i quoted above he told his disbelievers that he was "just a messenger"

do i believe the Qu'ran, or the Hadith?

 

[جوري]

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
اقْتَرَبَتِ السَّاعَةُ وَانشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ {1}​

[Pickthal 54:1] The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain.

وَإِن يَرَوْا آيَةً يُعْرِضُوا وَيَقُولُوا سِحْرٌ مُّسْتَمِرٌّ {2}​

[Pickthal 54:2] And if they behold a portent they turn away and say: Prolonged illusion.

وَكَذَّبُوا وَاتَّبَعُوا أَهْوَاءهُمْ وَكُلُّ أَمْرٍ مُّسْتَقِرٌّ {3}​

[Pickthal 54:3] They denied (the Truth) and followed their own lusts. Yet everything will come to a decision

وَلَقَدْ جَاءهُم مِّنَ الْأَنبَاء مَا فِيهِ مُزْدَجَرٌ {4}​

[Pickthal 54:4] And surely there hath come unto them news whereof the purport should deter,

LUNAR DATA SUPPORT IDEA THAT COLLISION SPLIT EARTH, MOON
NASA by Douglas Isbell, David Morse


Find More Results for: "NASA moon splitting "
SPACE SCIENCE:...
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Analysis of data from NASA's Lunar Prospector spacecraft has confirmed that the Moon has a small core, supporting the theory that the bulk of the Moon was ripped away from the early Earth when an object the size of Mars collided with the Earth.

Scientists presented this result and other findings today in a series of papers at the 30th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston, TX. Their data show that the lunar core contains less than four percent of the Moon's total mass, with the probable value being two percent or slightly less. This is very small when compared with the Earth, whose iron core contains approximately 30 percent of the planet's mass.

"This is a critical finding in helping scientists determine how the Earth and Moon formed," said Dr. Alan Binder of the Lunar Research Institute, Tucson, AZ, principal investigator for Lunar Prospector.

Similarities in the mineral composition of the Earth and the Moon indicate that they share a common origin. However, if they had simply formed from the same cloud of rocks and dust, the Moon would have a core similar in proportion to the Earth's. A third theory suggests that the moon was captured fully intact by the Earth's gravity.


Based on information first gathered during the Apollo era, scientists suggested that the Moon was formed when a Mars-sized body hit the Earth during its earliest history. "This impact occurred after the Earth's iron core had formed, ejecting rocky, iron-poor material from the outer shell into orbit," Binder explained. "It was this material that collected to form the Moon.

"Further analysis of Lunar Prospector data to refine the exact size of the lunar core and the amounts of elements like gold, platinum and iridium in lunar rocks -- all of which are concentrated with metallic iron -- is required," Binder added. "This will do much to pin down for good if the 'giant impact' model of the formation of the Moon is correct, or if the Moon formed in a different manner."

The current data come from gravity measurements conducted by Dr. Alex Konopliv of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA. His results indicate that the Moon's core radius is between 140 and 280 miles (220 and 450 kilometers). This result is consistent with independent magnetic data, evaluated by Dr. Lon Hood of the University of Arizona, Tucson, which suggest that the core radius is between 180 and 260 miles (300 and 425 km).

In other results from Lunar Prospector, Dr. Robert Lin of the University of California at Berkeley, Dr. Mario Acua of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, MD, and Hood also found that a broad section of the southern far-side of the Moon has large localized magnetic fields in its crust. These fields occur opposite the large Crisium, Serenitatis and Imbrium basins -- three of the "seas" that cover much of the Moon's near side. This result supports earlier evidence linking strong magnetized concentrations on one side of the Moon with young, large impact basins on the other side.

Results of efforts to map the composition of the lunar crust have surpassed the expectations of the spectrometer team, led by Dr. William Feldman of the Department of Energy's Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. Data obtained are so good that the distribution of thorium has been mapped with a resolution of 36 miles (60 kilometers). At this amount of detail, scientists can detect individual deposits rich in thorium and related elements. Their current observations suggest that thorium was excavated by impacts of asteroids and comets, and then distributed around craters, rather than being deposited by volcanic activity.

Lunar Prospector conducted its primary mapping mission at an altitude of 63 miles (100 kilometers) for almost one year after its arrival in lunar orbit on Jan. 11, 1998. In December and January, the spacecraft's altitude was lowered to approximately 15 miles by 23 miles (24 kilometers by 37 kilometers). Analyses of data from the lower-altitude observations are expected to further improve scientific understanding of the origin, evolution and physical resources of the Moon.

The $63 million mission is managed by NASA's Ames Research Center, Moffett Field, CA, and was developed under NASA's Discovery Program of lower-cost, highly focused small scientific spacecraft.

Further information about Lunar Prospector, its science data return, and relevant charts and graphics can be found on the project website at:

http://lunar.arc.nasa.gov

[/IMG]

-end-


WITNESS OF MOON SPLITTING (A MIRACLE OF PROPHET MUHAMMAD (PBUH ))

CHAKRAWATI FARMAS KING OF MALABAR, INDIA

The incident relating to King Chakrawati Farmas is documented in an old manuscript in the India Office Library, London, which has reference number: Arabic, 2807, 152-173. It was quoted in the book "Muhammad Rasulullah," by M. Hamidullah:

"There is a very old tradition in Malabar, South-West Coast of India, that Chakrawati Farmas, one of their kings, had observed the splitting of the moon, the celebrated miracle of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) at Mecca, and learning on inquiry that there was a prediction of the coming of a Messanger of God from Arabia (Detail given bellow), he appointed his son as regent and set out to meet him. He embraced Islam at the hand of the Prophet, and when returning home, at the direction of the Prophet, died at the port of Zafar, Yemen, where the tomb of the "Indian king" was piously visited for many centuries."

The old manuscript in the 'India Office Library' contains several other details about King Chakrawati Farmas and his travel[1].

The king spent weeks in seclusion. In the midst of his quiet life, he set out on the journey along with the Arab travelers who'd promised him earlier. On the way, they stopped by Koylandi and from there to Dharmapatnam where they halted for 3 days. Then they set out to Shehr Muqalla. On reaching there, they set for the Hajj pilgrimage and thereafter returned to Malabar. He aspired to spread the message of Islam. But on the way, he fell sick and breathed his last.

A tradition of the Holy Prophet has also been reported from one of the companions, Abu Saeed al Kaudri, regarding the arrival of Cheraman Perumel. "A king from India presented the Messenger of Allah with a bottle of pickle that had ginger in it. The Holy Prophet distributed it among his companions. I also received a piece to eat ". (Hakim reports in 'Al Musthadrak )

Umar Qazi's poem on Cheraman Perumal.
Umar Qazi was well aware of the story of Cheraman Perumal - the first Indian to accept Islam. He narrates it thus in one of his poems inscribed on the walls of Ponnani Juma Masjid.

Kodungallur was a center of festivals established by the great Emperor Cheraman Perumal .....
The major part of all the minor kingdoms were under his rule ...
As such, one day he saw he saw the moon split into two (a miracle of Holy Prophet performed in Arabia) on a clear cloudless night ....
As a result the love for Holy Prophet grew in his heart and he became the earliest Muslim of this nation....[2]

Moon Splitting in The Quran
The splitting of the moon is mentioned in the Holy Qur'an, Surah Al-Qamar (54), Verses 1-3:

The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain.
And if they behold a portent they turn away and say:
Prolonged illusion.
They denied (the Truth) and followed their own lusts.
Yet everything will come to a decision.

Moon Splitting in Hadiths
Narrated Abdullah bin Masud: "During the lifetime of the Prophet the moon was split into two parts and on that the Prophet said, 'Bear witness (to thus).' (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 830)"

Narrated Anas: "That the Meccan people requested Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle, and so he showed them the splitting of the moon. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 831)"

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas: "The moon was split into two parts during the lifetime of the Prophet. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Virtues and Merits of the Prophet (pbuh) and his Companions, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 832)"

Narrated Anas bin Malik: "The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 208)"

Narrated 'Abdullah: "The moon was split ( into two pieces ) while we were with the Prophet in Mina. He said, "Be witnesses." Then a Piece of the moon went towards the mountain. (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 209)"

Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas: "During the lifetime of Allah's Apostle the moon was split (into two places). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 210)"

Narrated 'Abdullah: "The moon was split (into two pieces). (Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar), Volume 5, Book 58, Number 211)"[3]

According to Maududi, the traditionists and commentators have agreed that this incident took place at Mina in Makkah about five years before the Holy Prophet's Hijra (migration) to Madinah.

The Moon had split into two distinct parts in front of their very eyes. The two parts had separated and receded so much apart from each other that to the on-lookers (in Makkah) one part had appeared on one side of the mountain and the other on the other side of it. Then, in an instant the two had rejoined. This was a manifest proof of the truth that the system of the universe was neither eternal nor immortal, it could be disrupted.

This incident indicated that huge stars and planets could split asunder, disintegrate, collide with each other, and everything that had been described in the Qur'an on the Resurrection could happen. The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) invited the people's attention to this event only with this object in view and asked them to mark it and be a witness to it. But the disbelievers described it as a magical illusion and persisted in their denial. They were reproached in Surah Al-Qamar (The Moon) for their stubbornness.

Other Relevant Notes
It is due to this incident about their king, the people of Malabar became the first community in India to accept Islam. Subsequently, they increased their trade with Arabs, as the Arab ships used to pass by their shores on the way to China before the advent of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Before Prophet Muhammad (pbuh), Malabar also had a Christian community dating back from the earliest followers of Prophet Jesus ('Isa), pbuh. St. Thomas is believed to have migrated to India and died there. This community remained untouched by later theological developments in Christianity until the arrival of Portugese traveler Vasco da Gama.

When the British were consolidating their stronghold in India, they deployed the largest naval operation (on the shores of India) against the Muslims of Malabar[4].

Predictions of the coming of a Messanger of God from Arabia
Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) was commanded by God to inform that he was not the only Messenger of God to the world [Al Qur'an 46:9]. Scholars say that there had been some 124,000 Prophet sent to the world who preached in the language of the respective people [A Qur'an 14:4]. The true religion they preached and their scriptures got corrupted with passage of time (with the exception of Al Qur'an). However, the message on the last and greatest Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) is retained till date in the scriptures of all major world religions.

The Hindu scriptures identify the greatest Prophet to come mentioning details of his birth, events of his life, his followers, etc. Some even give his Arabic name or its equivalents! This article will help creating right belief (Iman) in other religionists.

Further, it will help Muslims appreciate yet another facet of greatness of Prophet (Pbuh) and deepen their Iman. We will see here only a sample of the overwhelming evidences!

Prophet (Pbuh) Foretold in India (A) Hindu scriptures
There is no doubt that God sent Prophets (Pbuh) to people of India. There is no mention of any Indian Prophet or scripture in Holy Qur'an. But Bukhari records Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh) as saying he was enjoying breeze wafting from India laden with fragrance of Tawhid (unity of God). The four Vedas (scriptures) of Hindus and their epics are said to be 5000-10,000 years old. They contain a great deal of monotheistic ideas, and of course, prophecies on Hadrath Muhammad (Pbuh).

Bhavishya Puran
This is a Sanskrit work of prophecies. The title means 'Book of the Future'. Since Hinduism is based in India it was, and still is, taken for granted that its sages will be born in India itself. Contrary to this belief the Book says that a great master will appear in a foreign country (mlechcha acharya) and live in a sandy region (marusthal). His name will be Mahaaamad. Within a short span of 18 couplets Mahaamad is mentioned five times.

There is an interesting information in Bhavishya Purana that Mahaamad would appear to Bhoj, ruler of Dhar, and say that he would establish the religion of meat eaters, by the command of Ishwar i.e. God. There is a tradition that long afterwards, Bhoj got terrified on seeing the full moon split into two. Learned men consulted holy books and told him that it was one of the signs of the Universal Master to be born in a country to the West. Bhoj sent his minister to Prophet (Pbuh) in Arabia, who named the king Abdullah. The Tomb of Abdullah is still there at Dhar...

Mahabharat
This is a Hindu epic describing the struggle and triumph of good against evil. It was written by sage Vyas who also authored Bhavishya Purana. Mahabharata says that in the last eon called Kali Yug (in which we now live) a great sage will appear with name Mahaamad. He would preach about unity of God. He will be driven away from his native place by his own folk. By him the world would get peace. (Islam means peace). Mahabharat further says that cloud will provide him shade. It is recorded in history that Buhaira, the Christian priest of Syria observed this sign with Muhammad e in his boyhood and identified him as the last Prophet anticipated for millennia.

Kalki Puran
The signs and events of the final Avatar Kalki point out to final Prophet Muhammad (Pbuh). They fit those of Muhammad (Pbuh) neatly and perfectly. They are as follows;

Kalki will appear in the last on Kali Yug and will be the guide for the entire world.

He will be born on the 12th day of the month. Prophet (Pbuh) as born on 12th Of Rabiyyul Awwal).

His parents will be: Vishnu Bhagat and Soomati meaning servant of God (the Cherisher) and peace. (Messenger's (Pbuh) father's name was Abdullah, God's servant and mother was Amina refuge giver which includes the idea of 'peace'.)

He will be with a beauty par-excellence. His body will be fragrant.

He will get wisdom on a mountain. (Messenger (Pbuh) was conferred Prophethood on Mt.Hira)

He will receive a horse from God, which will be faster than lightning. Riding it he will go around the earth and seven skies. (During Mi'raj Prophet (Pbuh) got Buraq meaning lightning and toured the entire universe.)

Kalki will split the moon. Like Bhoj, Cheraman (Zamorin) Perumal the ruler of Indian kingdom of Kerala, witnessed splitting of the moon performed by Prophet (Pbuh). After gathering the facts he sailed to Arabia and became Muslim at Prophet's (Pbuh) hand. His Tomb is near the city of Salala in Oman[5].

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings,

I would suggest rather than bombarding people with many different questions in this thread, let's deal with one thing at a time.

Going back to the topic and the original question: why do Muslims use the Bible if they don't believe in it, this has already been asked before, such as in this recent thread: http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/39029-question-relating-bible-being-changed-3.html

The main point to note is that we believe in the Bible as well as the Torah as originally being revealed by God to their respective peoples. Over time, the people changed these books and this meant that truth could no longer be distinguished from falsehood.

When the Qur'an was revealed, it abrogated the previous scriptures and brought the people back onto the Straight Path. Furthermore, Allaah promised to protect it from being corrupted like the previous scriptures had been, which is why it is a trustworthy Book over the others.

This is why the Qur'an and the hadeeth are used as a criterion to determine whether or not something is true in the previous scriptures such as the Bible: anything that contradicts the Qur'an and the hadeeth is to be rejected. Seeing as many parts of the Bible are of unknown authenticity, we cannot use it as a source of knowledge as we cannot deny their authenticity nor can we convincingly affirm them. However, the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) explained that all the knowledge that was essential to know was available in the Qur'an and the hadeeth.

I hope this has helped you to understand the matter, and Allaah (swt) knows best.

Peace.

 

[westcoast]

SMH once again someone keeps deleting my posts.
response to ambrosia's impossibly long post:

the hadiths state that MUHAMAD "split the moon" this is what the Qu'ran says:
Surah[ 10:20] They say, "How come no miracle came down to him from his Lord?" Say, "The future belongs to GOD; so wait, and I am waiting along with you."

[29:50] They said, "If only miracles could come down to him from his Lord!" Say, "All miracles come only from GOD; I am no more than a manifest warner."


So is the recollection of the accounts that occurred valid in the Hadith and not the Qu'ran then? Clearly, if the Qu'ran is to be taken as the word of God, then the above quotes nullify your claims about muhammad splitting the moon.

 

[NoName55]

SMH once again someone keeps deleting my posts.

because moon is off topic, another discussion, focus on one thing instead of jumping around

http://www.islamicboard.com/691356-post43.html

when post is deleted you get a PM which gives reason (in this case reason given was "off topic posts: Moon is discussed elsewhere on forums"

topic at hand is: Why do muslims use the bible if they don't 'believe' in it?

 

[جوري]

SMH once again someone keeps deleting my posts.
response to ambrosia's impossibly long post:

the hadiths state that MUHAMAD "split the moon" this is what the Qu'ran says:
Surah[ 10:20] They say, "How come no miracle came down to him from his Lord?" Say, "The future belongs to GOD; so wait, and I am waiting along with you."

[29:50] They said, "If only miracles could come down to him from his Lord!" Say, "All miracles come only from GOD; I am no more than a manifest warner."


So is the recollection of the accounts that occurred valid in the Hadith and not the Qu'ran then? Clearly, if the Qu'ran is to be taken as the word of God, then the above quotes nullify your claims about muhammad splitting the moon.

The Quran Happened over a period of 23 yrs not all at once.. so until you can discern which sura came before which... which sura is (madanya or makkia and for what purpose....and respectfully I have my doubts that you do can you then quote a verse out of context and say will this speaks of no miracles preformed.. since we did quote you (FROM THE QURAN) in the above the MIRACLE preformed OF THE SPLITTING OF THE MOON... in fact you didn't have to go through the entire text to see it.. it was in the first few lines.. affirmed in hadith and later by NASA... .. I must ask you have you read the entire sura (10) and know of whom it speaks? Quoting out of context makes you appear foolish!

And... Yes miracles are from G-D... who did you think they were from? this is true of messengers even before prophet Mohammed PBUH...

Lastly you can't prove Christ (PBUH) existed if it weren't for the bible and the Quran later affirming-- there are volumes of literature out there written by non-muslims who can refute any number of events in the bible... in other words short of the bible and the Quran you can't really attest that Jesus (PBUH) preformed any miracles... where as the Quran is Prophet Mohammed's greatest miracle ... its wonders never cease, its transcendent-- you'll have to be a native Arabic speaker to actually understand and appreciate why... but it shouldn't be a deterrent from appreciating it nonetheless
peace!

 

[جوري]

NoName isn't deleting your posts! he and I both had our posts deleted as well! with a request to be kinder although I can't imagine why at this point you don't even read what we have written--- this is from the Quran... again for the last time with 3 different transliteration--

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
اقْتَرَبَتِ السَّاعَةُ وَانشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ {1}​

[Shakir 54:1] The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder.
[Yusufali 54:1] The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.
[Pickthal 54:1] The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain.

وَإِن يَرَوْا آيَةً يُعْرِضُوا وَيَقُولُوا سِحْرٌ مُّسْتَمِرٌّ {2}​

[Shakir 54:2] And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: Transient magic.
[Yusufali 54:2] But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, "This is (but) transient magic."
[Pickthal 54:2] And if they behold a portent they turn away and say: Prolonged illusion.

peace!

 

[Woodrow]

we will now continue on with the thread staying on topic. All off topic posts will be deleted if I see them.

Any questions about deleted posts please take it up with the Mods and not with other members. Only mods and admins have the ability to delete posts and threads. We are identified on our avatars.

 

[MustafaMc]

May the One God guide you to the truth!

I am a former Christian who read the Bible before and after becoming a Muslim. Yes, I have quoted from the Bible, but not to prove that it prophesied the coming of Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. Since Christians accept the Bible as the word of God, I point out certain verses in a different light in order to stimulate a more unbiased understanding. You may find it hard to believe, but reading the same verses after converting to Islam meant something completely different from my new perspective.

I believe that Jesus, peace be upon him, was also a Prophet and a Messenger of God. I also believe in the Gospel, or Injeel, that was revealed through him to the "lost sheep of Israel". However, I don't accept the New Testament of the Bible as the original, unadulterated message, but rather a collection of legitimate (and some fabicated) sayings and actions of Jesus and of his disciples and also some letters of Paul. Note that Paul (Saul) staunchly opposed Jesus' disciples, e.g. stoning of Stephen, until he "saw the light" on the road to Damascus. Where did Paul get the "Gospel" that he defends in Galatians? Does this make him a de facto prophet also?

I am amazed at the amount of Truth that remains in the Bible. The greatest commandment according to Mark 12:29 is the very foundation of Islam. How many times is Jesus (pbuh) quoted in Matthew, Mark and Luke as refering to himself as the Son of God? How many times as the Son of Man? The verses that you refer to, e.g. John 16:7-15, regarding the "Comforter" or "Counseler" mean something to me that is different from what Christians interpret. Yes, I understand this passage to mean that Jesus (pbuh) foretold the coming of Muhammad (pbuh), but Christians have been taught this refers to the Holy Spirit.

When I read the Bible, I compare it to my "Gold Standard", the Quran, in order to discern truth from falsehood. For example, how can Hebrews 7:1-3 refer to any other than God Himself. How can any man have no father and no mother? How can any man have no beginning of days (creation Adam & Eve, birth all else) and no end of life (death)?

 

[westcoast]

The verses that you refer to, e.g. John 16:7-15, regarding the "Comforter" or "Counseler" mean something to me that is different from what Christians interpret. Yes, I understand this passage to mean that Jesus (pbuh) foretold the coming of Muhammad (pbuh),

funny how when convenient, the Bible is valid so as to prove the validity of Muhamad. Yet if i tried to use that passage to mean differently, it's "wrong" and whatever else you claim.
You either reject the Bible or accept what it states, simple and plain. you cant pick whatever works to your advantage and reject things that clearly negate what you claim.

peace

 

[جوري]

funny how when convenient, the Bible is valid so as to prove the validity of Muhamad. Yet if i tried to use that passage to mean differently, it's "wrong" and whatever else you claim.
You either reject the Bible or accept what it states, simple and plain. you cant pick whatever works to your advantage and reject things that clearly negate what you claim.

peace

Why not exercise cognitive conservatism a little less... you come across as abrasive and combative, and not genuine in wanting to learn, which is the ultimate purpose of this forum...and I say this because thrice I quoted you an answer to your question from the Quran and again you asked the same question!... You are entitled to your views and opinions and you may state your reasons in accordance to your understanding, and it is the burden of proof of those whom you make the request to explain the reasoning behind what they write. If you still don't like what they wrote then you can disagree amicably-- no one is coercing you into a conversion and I assume you came here willingly?

peace!

 

[Woodrow]

funny how when convenient, the Bible is valid so as to prove the validity of Muhamad. Yet if i tried to use that passage to mean differently, it's "wrong" and whatever else you claim.
You either reject the Bible or accept what it states, simple and plain. you cant pick whatever works to your advantage and reject things that clearly negate what you claim.

peace

It is quite logical. the original source of the Bible was from Allah(swt) Some of it does remain unchanged and that which is in agreement with the Qur'an we view as being unchanged.

i.e. Even though you do not believe the Qur'an is the Word of Allah(swt) would you not agree that that Isa(as) was born of a virgin as is also stated in the Bible. and that at least that much of the Qur'an is true even if you do not believe another word of it.

Actually we are not to use the Bible as a valid source to prove Islam. However, since many of us are reverts and are familiar with the Bible. We often go back to old habits and quote from the Bible.

 

[westcoast]

NoName isn't deleting your posts! he and I both had our posts deleted as well! with a request to be kinder although I can't imagine why at this point you don't even read what we have written--- this is from the Quran... again for the last time with 3 different transliteration--

بِسْمِ اللهِ الرَّحْمنِ الرَّحِيمِ
اقْتَرَبَتِ السَّاعَةُ وَانشَقَّ الْقَمَرُ {1}​

[Shakir 54:1] The hour drew nigh and the moon did rend asunder.
[Yusufali 54:1] The Hour (of Judgment) is nigh, and the moon is cleft asunder.
[Pickthal 54:1] The hour drew nigh and the moon was rent in twain.

وَإِن يَرَوْا آيَةً يُعْرِضُوا وَيَقُولُوا سِحْرٌ مُّسْتَمِرٌّ {2}​

[Shakir 54:2] And if they see a miracle they turn aside and say: Transient magic.
[Yusufali 54:2] But if they see a Sign, they turn away, and say, "This is (but) transient magic."
[Pickthal 54:2] And if they behold a portent they turn away and say: Prolonged illusion.

peace!

throughout the Qu'ran muhammad is said to be just a messenger, and that his only miracle is being able to deliver the word of allah through the Qu'ran. Not only that, when pressed by people of his time to show them miracles he pointed out the futility of miracles by stating that prophets in passed times came with miracles and they still killed them or didnt believe them
"Quran 03: 138
"Allah took our promise not to believe in an messenger unless He showed us a sacrifice consumed by Fire (From heaven)." Say: "There came to you messengers before me, with clear Signs and even with what ye ask for: why then did ye slay them, if ye speak the truth?" if you are truthful? "

again;
the only clear specific detail that actually says muhamad "split the moon" is found in the hadiths, which are NOT the word of allah
Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 208
"The people of Mecca asked Allah's Apostle to show them a miracle. So he showed them the moon split in two halves between which they saw the Hiram' mountain."

^you see how easy they make it seem for the prophet to perform such a miracle? BUT in the qu'ran, non believers told him:
"Q. 17: 90
They say: "We shall not believe in thee, until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth,"
(we wont believe in you until you perform this miracle)
---to which Muhamad responded:
"Q. 17: 93
Say: "Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- a messenger?"
Surely causing a spring to come from the earth is nothing to a man who can "split the moon" right?

There are lots of inconsistencies when one refers to the hadiths and cross references them with the Qu'ran.

 

[westcoast]

It is quite logical. the original source of the Bible was from Allah(swt) Some of it does remain unchanged and that which is in agreement with the Qur'an we view as being unchanged.

i.e. Even though you do not believe the Qur'an is the Word of Allah(swt) would you not agree that that Isa(as) was born of a virgin as is also stated in the Bible. and that at least that much of the Qur'an is true even if you do not believe another word of it.

Actually we are not to use the Bible as a valid source to prove Islam. However, since many of us are reverts and are familiar with the Bible. We often go back to old habits and quote from the Bible.

okay, explain exactly where the Bible no longer becomes valid, i've read various places throughout this website that everything in the New Testament isnt "good" or whatever, yet they continue to quote from it.. i dont get it

 

[جوري]

lol... I really don't know what is wrong with you?... I thank you for highlighting your ignorance & repeatedly... and I thank you for affirming that you are not familiar with one verse in the Quran... least of which one which is quoted to you repeatedly... Enjoy the soliloquy of your Argumentum ad ignorantiam!

oh and by the way this is what 3.138 really says... so how about you read the actual Quran--before you cut and paste from your various ready sources I think it is a bit embaressing for you to have this sort of a dent in your fecund little manifestos...

هَـذَا بَيَانٌ لِّلنَّاسِ وَهُدًى وَمَوْعِظَةٌ لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ {138}​

[Pickthal 3:138] This is a declaration for mankind, a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil)

 

[westcoast]

lol... I really don't know what is wrong with you?... I thank you for highlighting your ignorance & repeatedly... and I thank you for affirming that you are not familiar with one verse in the Quran... least of which one which is quoted to you repeatedly... Enjoy the the soliloquy of your Argumentum ad ignorantiam!

huh?
what i typed is clear

1) hadiths stating muhammad split the moon
2) Qu'ranic passages clearly showing how disbelievers at the time of Muhamad were weary of his message and challenged him to perform miracles to prove he was from God
3) To which he responded that he is just a messenger.

Where is the ignorance in that?

Imagine if I was simply an observer who was becoming interested in Islam, and provided you with quotes from the Qu'ran which i found confusing. This is how you would respond? "LOL !!you're ignorant, you dont know the quran!!!"

Come on buddy, i'm quoting YOUR holy book where it says people tested muhamad by challenging him to perform miracles and he responded with not a miracle but saying that he is just a messenger.
THOSE ARE QUOTES FROM THE QU'RAN.

 

[westcoast]

"oh and by the way" i realized it isnt 3: 138
it is
3:183 (check for urself)


clearly you see how one would make that mistake while typing. but i've since then found my error and corrected it

ITS A MIRACLE!

 

[جوري]

Do you speak Arabic? law taqdar an taqra'a hazha fa'anta 7imar

You have conveniently left out the part of the post where we pointed out your blatant misquote of the Quran here it is again
هَـذَا بَيَانٌ لِّلنَّاسِ وَهُدًى وَمَوْعِظَةٌ لِّلْمُتَّقِينَ {138}
[Pickthal 3:138] This is a declaration for mankind, a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil)...

furthermore which part of Sura 54 verses one and two-- with three different transliteration FROM THE QURAN do you not understand? I mean are you suffering from Attention deficit disorder or do you have problems with your occipital lobe that your vision is failing you? Please read before you type.. also verify from the Quran instead of other sources so you don't come across like a fool time and again..

 

[جوري]

"oh and by the way" i realized it isnt 3: 138
it is
3:183 (check for urself)


clearly you see how one would make that mistake while typing. but i've since then found my error and corrected it

ITS A MIRACLE!

We can only hope you see the error with the rest as well but I doubt it...

الَّذِينَ قَالُواْ إِنَّ اللّهَ عَهِدَ إِلَيْنَا أَلاَّ نُؤْمِنَ لِرَسُولٍ حَتَّىَ يَأْتِيَنَا بِقُرْبَانٍ تَأْكُلُهُ النَّارُ قُلْ قَدْ جَاءكُمْ رُسُلٌ مِّن قَبْلِي بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَبِالَّذِي قُلْتُمْ فَلِمَ قَتَلْتُمُوهُمْ إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ {183}​

[Pickthal 3:183] (The same are) those who say: Lo! Allah hath charged us that we believe not in any messenger until he bring us an offering which fire (from heaven) shall devour. Say (unto them): Messengers came unto you before me with miracles, and with that (very miracle) which ye describe. Why then did ye slay them? (Answer that) if ye are truthful!

فَإِن كَذَّبُوكَ فَقَدْ كُذِّبَ رُسُلٌ مِّن قَبْلِكَ جَآؤُوا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالزُّبُرِ وَالْكِتَابِ الْمُنِيرِ {184}​

[Pickthal 3:184] And if they deny thee, even so did they deny messengers who were before thee, who came with miracles and with the Psalms and with the Scripture giving light.

Where in these verses is the implication that Mohammed (PBUH) can't perform miracles?--- And again which part of sura 54 did you not understand?

 

[Woodrow]

okay, explain exactly where the Bible no longer becomes valid, i've read various places throughout this website that everything in the New Testament isnt "good" or whatever, yet they continue to quote from it.. i dont get it

For beginners name one line in the NT that is the Injil which was revealed to Isa(as) That has been completely left out. There is not a single statement in the NT that is the word of Isa(as).

It is true that Mark, John Paul and Matthew did witness events. But, we only read of their interpretations as was later translated by Paul. No where in the NT do we read the actual words of Isa(as)

Does this mean that the teachings of Isa(as) were not valid until we got Paul's version? Was not the words of Isa(as) good enough to have been preserved? People threw away or lost the true words of Isa(as) and after rejecting them turned and accepted the words of Paul.

The NT is the word of Paul and not the words of Isa(as)