Why do muslims use the bible if they don't 'believe' in it?

[Born_Believer]

Hi Dough,

If you want to understand the context of John 10:30, please watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTT5BiS9kxk
[MENTION=39587]dwa2day[/MENTION]

 

[dwa2day]

Hi Dough,

If you want to understand the context of John 10:30, please watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTT5BiS9kxk
@dwa2day

Hi Born Believer.
Thank you for the reference to the YouTube clip. I must say was quit impressed with Ahmed Deedat understanding of the context of John 10:30. Yet his global reference missed a very important point, thus the reason tone should read the Word of God not memorise it. You will notice when the bile writes about the one true God of Creation, it is type with a capital letter “G” = God. Reference to any other god of is a god of this world not of heaven.
Rightly so is Satan the god of this world as he has been give full control to rule the word till God sees fit.
Trust this help your understanding.

Regards
Doug

 

[Kiro]

Please can you offer references for your statement "the prophesied one should be in all versions of the bible" show what is excluded in what bible.

Regards
Doug

The caller. Or comforter. When Prophet Jesus says there will be someone after this.

I hope this is the correct reference.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:






"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".



John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

Muslims believe Prophet Muhammad :saws: is this comforter

 

[Serinity]

The caller. Or comforter. When Prophet Jesus says there will be someone after this.

I hope this is the correct reference.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:






"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".



John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

Muslims believe Prophet Muhammad :saws: is this comforter

"another" implies that it is not Jesus. Jesus could read and write. The Prophet :saw: or comforter spoken of, is described as illiterate.

The best candidate is Prophet Muhammad :saw: . It is very clear.

All indicates towards it being Prophet :saw: . So clear Imo.

If I said:

"Here I have the code, next time there will be sent ANOTHER code / Comforter.. I.e. NOT the previous code / Jesus."

"we have made strawberry milk for 2 years, next year we will make another Milk."

or:

Customer: my phone broke! it is smoked!
Employee: hmm, send it over here, we will provide you with another one."
Customer: mkay, here ya go.
Employee gets the phone, sends the other one.
Custmer: YEHAAAA, a NEW phone!!!!

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/another

 

[Born_Believer]

Hi Born Believer.
Thank you for the reference to the YouTube clip. I must say was quit impressed with Ahmed Deedat understanding of the context of John 10:30. Yet his global reference missed a very important point, thus the reason tone should read the Word of God not memorise it. You will notice when the bile writes about the one true God of Creation, it is type with a capital letter “G” = God. Reference to any other god of is a god of this world not of heaven.
Rightly so is Satan the god of this world as he has been give full control to rule the word till God sees fit.
Trust this help your understanding.

Regards
Doug

No offense but that made zero sense.

You can't refute a single point made in the video? Are you denying what Jesus himself said in the Bible, or that he was at the temple, considering that's what your own Bible is telling you. Do you know what Psalms says about the issue of Gods and the Jews describing themselves as such, which is what Jesus says in John? I bet you don't even know which part of Psalms I'm referring to. Check it out.

Also, this is not a linguistic discussion on how God is spelled or not. This is a discussion upon the basis of the verse you yourself quoted. If you wish to avoid or ignore or twist the context for your own means, go ahead. Remember, this will be on your soul, not mine.

 

[dwa2day]

The caller. Or comforter. When Prophet Jesus says there will be someone after this.

I hope this is the correct reference.
Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you".
John chapter 14 verse 16:
"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

Muslims believe Prophet Muhammad

is this comforter

Hi Kiro
Thanks for the opportunity to discuss this with you. Yes your references are correct, but please know I also would have understood the topic. For your reference the King James Bible is not known for been a good translation, however it by no means dose it misrepresent the topic at hand.

To answer your question we need to go to the Greek word used in the translation. For this you can use a Strong’s Greek- English dictionary or an English Greek linear Bible, this the original Greek transcript directly translated word for word into English. That is it the Strong’s reference number, then under that the Greek word, underneath that the Greek word in English, then the common word used in translation, under that if it is a nown or adjective. So we get this from the on line inter liner bible. (http://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/16.htm and http://biblehub.com/greek/3875.htm)

Original Word: παράκλητος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: paraklétos
Phonetic Spelling: (par-ak'-lay-tos)
Short Definition: an advocate, comforter, helper, Paraclete
Definition: (a) an advocate, intercessor, (b) a consoler, comforter, helper, (c) Paraclete.

Take note there are 111 Greek manuscripts available today that pre date Islam, all of which use the words paraklétos in all reference to comforter.

This is the Helper advocate and comforter referred to in Acts 2:1-4 (KJV)
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Muslims have suggested that Ahmad is the translation of periklutos, celebrated or the Praised One, which is a corruption of parakletos. Of the 5,000 odd Greek manuscripts that postdate Islam none refer a word periklutos only Paracletos. Not to mention it does not appear in any Greek dictionary I know off.

Hope this helps you.

Regards
Doug

 

[dwa2day]

No offense but that made zero sense.

You can't refute a single point made in the video? Are you denying what Jesus himself said in the Bible, or that he was at the temple, considering that's what your own Bible is telling you. Do you know what Psalms says about the issue of Gods and the Jews describing themselves as such, which is what Jesus says in John? I bet you don't even know which part of Psalms I'm referring to. Check it out.

Also, this is not a linguistic discussion on how God is spelled or not. This is a discussion upon the basis of the verse you yourself quoted. If you wish to avoid or ignore or twist the context for your own means, go ahead. Remember, this will be on your soul, not mine.

Hi Born_Believer
Make it about whatever you wish. The fact remains, when the bible refers to God of Creation it is spelt with a capital “G”. If the bible refers to any other god it is spelt with a small “g”. Muslims trying to use a lesser god quoted in the bible to refer to Jesus is manipulating scripture for the own gain.
What the Bible say about Jesus I accept as truth. But that’s not the discussion is it. The discussion is your you tube clip and the mixing up of the respective gods noted in the bible and the One true God to miss lead and lie to you. Do not believe me stop watch you tube and start reading.

Regards
Doug

 

[Born_Believer]

Hi Born_Believer
Make it about whatever you wish. The fact remains, when the bible refers to God of Creation it is spelt with a capital “G”. If the bible refers to any other god it is spelt with a small “g”. Muslims trying to use a lesser god quoted in the bible to refer to Jesus is manipulating scripture for the own gain.
What the Bible say about Jesus I accept as truth. But that’s not the discussion is it. The discussion is your you tube clip and the mixing up of the respective gods noted in the bible and the One true God to miss lead and lie to you. Do not believe me stop watch you tube and start reading.

Regards
Doug

I've highlighted the part which is just 100% wrong. You will never hear a Muslim claim Jesus manipulated anything. Where did you get that from? It is your so called scholars that have manipulated Jesus' words, not ours. It is your so called scholars who have given him the label of God and Son of God and Trinity and so on. We have done no such thing.

Once again, at no point have you even attempted to try and refuse the points raised in the video. Was Jesus not at the temple of Solomon and surrounded by Jews? Did they not accuse him of claiming to be a prophet/messenger/messiah? Did they not accuse him of claiming to be divine? What was Jesus' response? Did he reply "Yes, I am God" ?

No he did not. His reply was as follows: "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[SUP][d][/SUP]? [SUP]35 [/SUP]If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— [SUP]36 [/SUP]what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?"

At what stage does he describe himself as God? He flat out denies the false divinity of the Jews themselves and when given the opportunity, does not proclaim himself divine. Why did he not simply state, "Yes, I am God". Capital G and all? Does God in the Bible not state, "I am not the father of confusion"? Why then is Jesus being so cryptic...if he indeed is claiming divinity.

So you are once again left, trying to find an unequivocal statement by Jesus himself where he claims to be God. "I and my Father are one" is not the correct answer because that is in relation to both Jesus' and Gods mission of guiding people to the right path, explained using the metaphor of sheep. It has nothing to do with divinity and Jesus proclaims it in relation to the first accusation (are you are a messiah or not?). Jesus does not repeat the same thing following the second accusation (are you God?).

 

[dwa2day]

Hi Born Believer.
Let me deal with the objections you have come up with and trust you will gain a better understanding.

I've highlighted the part which is just 100% wrong. You will never hear a Muslim claim Jesus manipulated anything. Where did you get that from?

In your post #181 you made reference to a you tube clip. www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTT5BiS9kxk In this clip Ahmed Deedat (a Muslim) put John 10:30 in the correct context, however then quotes three scripture out of context to (Exodus, Psalms and II Corinthians) to show Jesus claim to been One with the Father is nothing less than a god of the world equal to Satan. The clip makes it clear.

It is your so called scholars that have manipulated Jesus' words, not ours. It is your so called scholars who have given him the label of God and Son of God and Trinity and so on. We have done no such thing.

Both Jews and Christians view the Bible as the inspired word of God. It is Islam claim that it is corrupt and unreliable, that’s fine with me it’s your belief. In the same manner I believe the Bible and its doctrines that Jesus is the Son of God and as well as the doctrine of the Trinity as rendered in correct reading of the Bible. This is my belief, the fact you do not like it is not the discussion. However if you wish to discuss specifics were you feel we have manipulate the scripture I am open to it. Then bring points with references to the verses in question noting clearly your objection.

Once again, at no point have you even attempted to try and refuse the points raised in the video. Was Jesus not at the temple of Solomon and surrounded by Jews? Did they not accuse him of claiming to be a prophet/messenger/messiah? Did they not accuse him of claiming to be divine? What was Jesus' response? Did he reply "Yes, I am God" ?

I am in full agreement with John 10:22-30 as it has been written in the bible. I do not think I can make this more clear to you.

QUOTE=Born_Believer;2927707]No he did not. His reply was as follows: "Is it not written in your Law, ‘I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called them ‘gods,’ to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be set aside— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?" [/QUOTE]

Firstly keep in mind John 10 is all about spiritual blindness. In the same way as one looks for ones spectacles for 20 minutes to find them right there in plain sight on the desk. In the same way the Jews were looking for the Messiah. What Messiah were they looking for?
The Feast of Dedication refers us to some Jewish history (John 10:22). The Jews at the time would know this feast was about remembering Judas Maccabeus army reclaiming the temple from the Syrian king Antiochus Epiphanes (167BC) who had set up a pagan alter to displace the alter of Israel’s God. This understanding is found in the Christian study guides in the same manner you would find greater knowledge of Muhammad by reading the Hadeeth.
So what Messiah were the Jews expecting? One who would come with an army to defeat the roman occupation of Israel! Thus the Jews were blinded to Jesus message by placing their personal form off a Messiah in the place of what the scripture, they claimed to know was prophesying.

Can Jesus be both Man and God as claimed, well it fulfils the prophecy in Jerimiah 23:5-6 that the Messiah would be both God and man. See also John 13:13, 1Timonthy 3:16

QUOTE=Born_Believer;2927707]………I have said you are “gods”’[d]? 35 If he called ,…. [/QUOTE]

Take note of the d] reference, the foot note would refer you to Psalm 82:6. Meaning Jesus is quoting from the Psalm. Elohim is the Hebrew name for God, the creator and ruler of the universe. However God passed the right to man to have dominion over the world, Genesis 1:28. The right to be king and ruler of the world.
Thus in reading Psalm 82 Jesus is re enforcing His statement, I have given you authority to man to rule but we have become gods unto yourself blind to using Gods model to rule. We have chosen to follow our own evil system which ignores the weak and poor that we should be adding. The Psalmsest concludes inverses 6-8 it Gods rule he seeks not rules of the world.

At what stage does he describe himself as God?

John 1:1-3 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made... 1:14 - And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us,
John 5:17,18 - “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” Therefore the Jews sought to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God.
John 5:23 - that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.
John 8:24 - “Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM [He], you will die in your sins.”
John 8:58 - Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”
John 14:6-7 - Jesus said to him, “I AM the way, the truth, and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.”

Why did he not simply state, "Yes, I am God". Capital G and all? Does God in the Bible not state, "I am not the father of confusion"? Why then is Jesus being so cryptic...if he indeed is claiming divinity.

It is not about been cryptic it is about free choice. We see this in the previous chapter, John 9 were Jesus heals a blind man from birth and is questioned by the Jewish leaders. He knows he was healed by God through Jesus. However the Jewish leaders are blind to the scripture they know. Note this is a direct fulfilment of the prophecy in Isaiah 35:5-6 a ministry of miracles.

God’s law is to be followed out of love for God and in relationship with Him. The Old Testament is proof we as human cannot do it on our own, the final chapter of Gods plan of salvation is Jesus Christ, the one we must chose, because we believe in Him and believe Gods plan of redemption for our sins.

"I am not the father of confusion"?

I assume you are referring to 1 Corinthians 14:33 (NKJV) For God is not the author of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.

Yes I believe this and see no confusion by Gods hand in scripture. It is us humans in seeking our own desires that create confusion manipulation of the truth to justify one’s personal aims.

So you are once again left, trying to find an unequivocal statement by Jesus himself where he claims to be God. "I and my Father are one" is not the correct answer because that is in relation to both Jesus' and Gods mission of guiding people to the right path,

It is not the right answer to you as it does not fit your belief and that fine with me. I trust you will offer my faith the same respect.

I am unsure what you want to know about the sheep?

Regards
Doug

 

[popsthebuilder]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

I just got somethin to say about using the Bible to prove that Muhamad was prophecised
according to most if not all muslims, the Bible is flawed and what not, so why use it to "prove" you cause? and if all the verses you quoted do indeed "prophecise" mohamad, then what do you make of verses proclaiming the divinity of Jesus Christ? all you're doing is chosing quotes that'll suit your purpose and ignoring the overwhelming majority of quotes in the Bible that suggest otherwise.

If permissible here on this sight; perhaps you could refer to scripture(bible) stating the divinity of Christ as a man, as opposed to simply asserting such. Thanks

Peace

 

[popsthebuilder]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

it doesn't make any sense to me. If i used the Bible to show the divinity of Jesus Christ, then you'd disagree with my statement because not only do you not believe in the Bible, but the Qu'ran also does not coincide with the teachings of the Bible (i.e Qu'ran saying God has no sons)
secondly a lot of people use and manipulate quotes from the Bible to prove their points, often times using them out of context.
The first quote from the book of Deutoronomy is used in this thread, and they claimed that this is a quote that prophesied the coming of Muhamad. Again, using a quote from the Bible out of context to prove your points:

Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him."

Unfortunately, this quote was not about Muhammad.
"If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote of me." (John 5:46)

^Is that not crystal clear?

Did you say that the bible and Quran are different in teachings? That is to say they are of two different wills. This is not the case whatsoever.

The two are nearly one and the same, though one leans more on the written law than the law of the selfless heart both lead to the same thing when the bias of self is removed from the equation.

Peace

 

[dwa2day]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

I just got somethin to say about using the Bible to prove that Muhamad was prophecised
according to most if not all muslims, the Bible is flawed and what not, so why use it to "prove" you cause? and if all the verses you quoted do indeed "prophecise" mohamad, then what do you make of verses proclaiming the divinity of Jesus Christ? all you're doing is chosing quotes that'll suit your purpose and ignoring the overwhelming majority of quotes in the Bible that suggest otherwise.

What I would like to see is Islam take the Bible, re edit it to what suits them, call it the Islamic Bible and get on with their faith. This will then define the true preservative of the use of the bible and stop the biblical gymnastics.

Regards
Doug

 

[crimsontide06]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

I personally believe in sharing Islam. There is no reason to argue about Christianity, the prophet(pbuh) as far as I know never got into arguments and debates about Jesus....etc. He only brought the message to worship God and only God...

If your religion is the correct one, you shouldn't be trying to use another religion's text to prove yours or disprove theirs.

I just got somethin to say about using the Bible to prove that Muhamad was prophecised
according to most if not all muslims, the Bible is flawed and what not, so why use it to "prove" you cause? and if all the verses you quoted do indeed "prophecise" mohamad, then what do you make of verses proclaiming the divinity of Jesus Christ? all you're doing is chosing quotes that'll suit your purpose and ignoring the overwhelming majority of quotes in the Bible that suggest otherwise.

 

[dwa2day]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

I personally believe in sharing Islam. There is no reason to argue about Christianity, the prophet(pbuh) as far as I know never got into arguments and debates about Jesus....etc. He only brought the message to worship God and only God...

If your religion is the correct one, you shouldn't be trying to use another religion's text to prove yours or disprove theirs.

I agree, yet Islam uses the Bible as there source of Islam but denies it teachings , 66 books by 44 different authors written over 1,500 against on man's revelation. This makes no sense.

Regards
Doug

 

[Nisthar]

Hi A-Way-Of-Life
With reference to your opening statement I will be more than happy to answer mistakes you noted are in the bible. Please can you be specific with reference.

You raise two very good questions. To fully comprehend this you would have to also understand the trinity, this in itself is not easy for most Christians. So I will avoid this for now in my explanation / answer to your questions.

“Is it true that nowhere in the bible does Jesus (PBUH) say he "is God" or the "son of god"?

The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” We need only to look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement to know He was claiming to be God. They tried to stone Him for this very reason: “You, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood exactly what Jesus was claiming—deity. When Jesus declared, “I and the Father are one,” He was saying that He and the Father are of one nature and essence. John 8:58 is another example. Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth … before Abraham was born, I am!” Jews who heard this statement responded by taking up stones to kill Him for blasphemy, as the Mosaic Law commanded (Leviticus 24:16).
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). These verses clearly indicate that Jesus is God in the flesh. Acts 20:28 tells us, “Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.” Who bought the church with His own blood? Jesus Christ. And this same verse declares that God purchased His church with His own blood. Therefore, Jesus is God!

Regarding the Son of God.
Mark says it at the outset of his gospel (1:1).
The angel told Mary her child would be the Son of God (Luke 1:35).
John the Baptist said the same thing (John 1:34).
Nathanael said it (John 1:49).
Martha believed it (John 11:27).
The centurion said so (Matthew 27:54).
Jesus claimed that He said so (John 10:36).
Jesus clearly implies it in John 11:4.
The demons called Jesus the Son of God (Matthew 8:29; Luke 4:41; Mark 3:11).
The charge against Jesus was that He claimed to be the Son of God (Matthew 27:43; John 19:7), a claim He never denied, and virtually admitted (Luke 22:70).
The Gospel of John was written to convince the reader that Jesus was the Son of God (John 20:31).
Why, you might ask, does Jesus not say so plainly. I think the answer is found in Matthew 16:15-17:
15 He said to them, “And who do you say that I am?” 16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” 17 And Jesus answered him, “You are blessed, Simon son of Jonah, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven!” (Matthew 16:15-17).

Jesus did not want Peter and His disciples to believe He was the Son of God just because He said so. He wanted God to bring them to this conclusion, based upon the overwhelming evidence of Scripture and our Lord’s life and teaching.


When Jesus (PBUH) says "father" in the bible, what does this mean? I really doubt he used "father" to adress God. Was it something the gospel writers added in?

The term Father in Heaven is used by Jesus some 181 times in the gospels. About once in every 140 words spoken by Jesus. Jesus was speaking about His Father. His central message and purpose was to restore us to a relationship with our Daddy in Heaven.

I fully understand from a Muslim view this is not the manner to relate to our Creator. However consider the family unit here. Father Mother and Son. The father is the king of the household, the mother the support and the child. It is through the direction and respect commanded from the father that instructs the child. He still calls you daddy and you heart melts like butter. Thus in time the formation of a solid father son relationship. Thus the reason God, in the form of Jesus broke through the bounds of time to interact with us so we could see that his law were as important as a direct relationship in love with Him.

Regards
Doug

In my opinion, Its very clear that christains have misunderstood the message sent to them. Also, its pity that you could not find a solid verse from the bible that supports your primary belief. I read the verses you quoted before and all i could understand is that “The Word was God”. This is referring to the bible. and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). Now the second verse is talking about the actual representation of the verses. It is clear that Prophet Isa (pbuh) acted only according to the message sent down to him. So, this verse clearly states that.

“Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.”
Everyone reading this verse could only understand one thing. I know you would also get it. But you are just quoting to prove a lie. Everyone knows the god created all the things and everything belongs to him. Its so simple that a common man can understand it without a explanation. Its just the explanation thats wrong.

You can disagree with my explanation. But you should know that a verse like this in the bible can be misinterpreted in many ways. Also, most of the christain scholars have accpeted that there is interpolation in the current bible.


Your answer reminded of me a video that i saw long time back, if you want you could watch it here, its speech from yusuf estes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHFgcRGIrH0

 

[Nisthar]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

I agree, yet Islam uses the Bible as there source of Islam but denies it teachings , 66 books by 44 different authors written over 1,500 against on man's revelation. This makes no sense.

Regards
Doug

Ok, you should first understand that islam does not uses bible as its source. But as muslims, we believe in injil , the original word of god sent down to prophet Isa (pbuh). Not just injil, but we believe in all the revelations sent down to all the prophets before prophet Isa (pbuh). I don't know why you asked this question in the first place. Its very clear to most christains.

 

[dwa2day]

In my opinion, Its very clear that christains have misunderstood the message sent to them. Also, its pity that you could not find a solid verse from the bible that supports your primary belief. I read the verses you quoted before and all i could understand is that “The Word was God”. This is referring to the bible. and “the Word became flesh” (John 1:1, 14). Now the second verse is talking about the actual representation of the verses. It is clear that Prophet Isa (pbuh) acted only according to the message sent down to him. So, this verse clearly states that.

“Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.”
Everyone reading this verse could only understand one thing. I know you would also get it. But you are just quoting to prove a lie. Everyone knows the god created all the things and everything belongs to him. Its so simple that a common man can understand it without a explanation. Its just the explanation thats wrong.

You can disagree with my explanation. But you should know that a verse like this in the bible can be misinterpreted in many ways. Also, most of the christain scholars have accpeted that there is interpolation in the current bible.

Your answer reminded of me a video that i saw long time back, if you want you could watch it here, its speech from yusuf estes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHFgcRGIrH0[/QUOTE]

I am sorry you do not understand my explanation and as Christians we understand this as spiritual blindness and thus the reluctance to see the truth.
With reference to John1:1 as long as you view this passage as Isa a mere prophet and not as Jesus Christ the Son of God you will not understand the passage.

Claiming I am simply quoting to prove a lie and my explanation is wrong with out supporting your statement is simply a measure of poor character and proves the weakness of your argument.
Regards
Doug

 

[dwa2day]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

………………… we believe in all the revelations sent down to all the prophets before prophet Isa (pbuh).

If this is what you believe then why do you not accept the 300 plus prophecies regarding Jesus Christ from these prophets?

If you believe in these prophets how then this is not the source of your faith as their writings are way before the Quran.

Most Christians do not understand this, they have just not asked. This is the biggest problem I have with Muslims, there is never a clear answer, it always clouded in Mystery. To prove my point answer this question.

Where can I get a copy of the Injil to read?

Regards

Doug

 

[Nisthar]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

If this is what you believe then why do you not accept the 300 plus prophecies regarding Jesus Christ from these prophets?

If you believe in these prophets how then this is not the source of your faith as their writings are way before the Quran.

Most Christians do not understand this, they have just not asked. This is the biggest problem I have with Muslims, there is never a clear answer, it always clouded in Mystery. To prove my point answer this question.

Where can I get a copy of the Injil to read?

Regards

Doug

Yes, there would be prophecies about prophet Isa (pbuh). One of the prophecy is that Isa (pbuh) would be a prophet. Also, Its not just about prophet Isa (pbuh), prophet muhammed (pbuh) is prophesied in the bible. Check this for reference: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...coming-Prophet-Muhammad-unearthed-Turkey.html


As for your previous comment, i say that we agreeing calling prophet Isa(pbuh) as son of god same way as prophet Adam(pbuh) is called son of god. Infact, According to the Bible every righteous person who follows the Commandments of God is referred to as ‘son of God’. Only the word begotten is the problem.
The word ‘begotten’ mentioned in the Gospel of John, Chap 3 vs. 16 has been thrown out from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible as an interpolation, as a fabrication. The Revised Standard Version has been revised by 32 Christian Scholars of the highest eminence, backed by 50 different co-operating denominations and these Scholars have removed this blasphemous word without any ceremony as an interpolation, concoction, fabrication, and adulteration. Yet the majority of Christians are unaware of this important fact because they do not read their own Bibles. The priests in their sermons continue to use this blasphemous verse and indoctrinate the masses with false teachings.

So if you are still using this blasphemous word, please stop using it because it does NOT exist in the original manuscripts of the Bible and has been thrown out of the Bible.

 

[dwa2day]

Re: Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) Prophecised in other Scriptures.

Yes, there would be prophecies about prophet Isa (pbuh). One of the prophecy is that Isa (pbuh) would be a prophet. Also, Its not just about prophet Isa (pbuh), prophet muhammed (pbuh) is prophesied in the bible. Check this for reference: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...coming-Prophet-Muhammad-unearthed-Turkey.html

As for your previous comment, i say that we agreeing calling prophet Isa(pbuh) as son of god same way as prophet Adam(pbuh) is called son of god. Infact, According to the Bible every righteous person who follows the Commandments of God is referred to as ‘son of God’. Only the word begotten is the problem.
The word ‘begotten’ mentioned in the Gospel of John, Chap 3 vs. 16 has been thrown out from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible as an interpolation, as a fabrication. The Revised Standard Version has been revised by 32 Christian Scholars of the highest eminence, backed by 50 different co-operating denominations and these Scholars have removed this blasphemous word without any ceremony as an interpolation, concoction, fabrication, and adulteration. Yet the majority of Christians are unaware of this important fact because they do not read their own Bibles. The priests in their sermons continue to use this blasphemous verse and indoctrinate the masses with false teachings.

So if you are still using this blasphemous word, please stop using it because it does NOT exist in the original manuscripts of the Bible and has been thrown out of the Bible.

Hi Nisthar.
Again I asked one simple question and you avoid in answering it. Why? Because you can not/ further if you read the Quran you will know that Mohammad attested to the authority of the entire Bible. See Surha 3:3.
You are greatly deceived when you claim Mohammad is prophesied in the Bible and again, I ask why use our text to prove your faith, can Islam not stand on its own two feet as a religion.
Bible translations are based on the source document of which there are some 300 plus which predate Islam and thus the truth stands simply through available ancient text to refer to. Something the Quran fails dismally in. Thus your rendering of John 3:16 is incorrect and not accepted by any Christian standards, if they do I say to you they are no better than Satan.
Please show your reference material regarding John3:16 as not been in the ancient text. If not please accept that our faith is that Jesus Christ, is the only begotten Son of God, came to earth as a human. Die on the cross for our sins and overcame death and is risen sitting at the right hand of God the Father interceding on our behalf.
Your comments on priest and blasphemy I doubt come from credible source other than you need to slander one faith. Further proves the point that.
Please can you answer the question, where can I get a copy of the Injil?

Regards
Doug