Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

[scentsofjannah]

Greetings,


How about here:



I grant that it doesn't say to hate kaffirs, but it does warn against befriending them.

Peace

That verse was revealed after the battle of Uhud..Allah revealed this verse reminding the believers they should not seek protection from others but they should protect themselves...the word wali means patrons and protectors.

Allah doesn't forbid us to befriend christians and jews..as long as we hold strong to our faith..many places Allah tells us to treat decent jews and christians kindly like in this verse .

[Allah forbids you not with regard to those who fight you not for your faith, nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them. For Allah loves those who are just. Allah only forbids you with regard to those who fight you for your faith, and drive you out of your homes and support others in driving you out, from turning to them for protection (or taking them as wali). Those who seek their protection they are indeed wrong- doers.] (Al-Mumtahinah 60: 8-9)

Also our Prophet treated muslims and nonmuslims in the same manner you can read a short biography of him by a nonmuslim here http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/lifeofprophet.html

 

[SirZubair]

Brothers and sisters,muslims and non-muslims,children of all ages,..

I will today present to you an article written by a good friend of mine,who goes by the name of AFROZ ALI,who is the founder of the Al Ghazzali Centre In Sydney ( www.alghazzali.org ) Regarding Friendship with Non-muslims According To The Quran.

So please,take your time in reading it,and Insha'allah some of you might Benefit from it.

Wa'salaam.

CLICK HERE

 

[cleo]

Well i agree with that. Just trying to find out the reason why some members choose to still live in western countrys even tho they apparently hate it, as I read many a time in many posts, posted by members. I fully understand that there are many who are quite happy in there western countries.

I was born here. I remember a time we were free. We could go to forests, which is mostly closed now. We could travel without ID, papers, and answer to no one. A person was responsible for their actions. not told how to think and act. There was respect of your parents, and someone was always home with a warm meal. We had morals, mostly, because we were taught to. Now it is sex, sex, and drugs. It is not the country I grew up in. They are just memories. I don't hate this beautiful country, I dispise what man has made it....and it is lost.

 

[Rou]

As far as I am aware what is going on in Iraq right now is that an elected parliament, with many members from all the major ethnic, religious and political groups, are meeting to approve Iraq's first full-term government since Saddam was ousted. Sounds like democracy to me. The electoral turnout was very high, and many of those who didn't vote failed to do so only because they were threatened by the so-called "resistance".

I by no means approve of everything happening in Iraq, and indeed much of US foreign policy in general, but I see no reason to think the Iraqi government is anything other than democratic. It is certainly far more legitimate (in the sense of being there as a result of the will of the people) than Saddam's regime ever was.

I would point out, also, that the whole reason for the current problems in Palestine is that a Hamas government was democratically elected using exactly the same process.

there is alot that is going on iraq...and no its not democracy...a goverment that is put in place in these circumstances is in no favour to the people...the attroicties they have suffered and are suffering are in no way be questioned by that goverment and neither will they... as for wether this is better than saddams reign i am no fan of his sick deprived mind but no i can not say it is any better now...

less people have roofs over there heads there are more dead people and suffering than before, less medical facilties than before and people are living in a state of war and constant fear now more than they were when saddam was around!?

the goverment that is in place has been chosen by the people!?? democraticlly put in!? think....

do you have any idea what state iraq is in!? what suffering the people havesen? they dont care who rules they just want some kind of normalty...

a goverment that plays ball with the west is what will be in place of saddam who did not play ball..

a goverment more willing to take o the dress and ideas of the west that is all...

the people will still be under control...

The lash has not been removed... the owner has changed thats alll...

ots easy to sit here and say oh theres a goverment in place a democratic one that will make it all better...

no it wont...

tukey is democratic...but what has that done to islam? we have our culture to protect and the form of democracy that comes from the hands of america and britan is there form it has no place for cultural diffrences...

you play ball and accept our ways or your not democratic...

thats a spread of a reigme not democracy...

no one wants war or undemocratic acts but a people must be allowed to developp in there own rights not be flushed with western ideals and products and tv shows to be just like the west and that is what this nice free! demoocratic goverment will briing to the iraqis...via there american oil trading masters...

well lets hope not lets hope they all live happily ever after...

 

[HeiGou]

no one wants war or undemocratic acts but a people must be allowed to developp in there own rights not be flushed with western ideals and products and tv shows to be just like the west and that is what this nice free! demoocratic goverment will briing to the iraqis...via there american oil trading masters

What is wrong with being "flushed" with Western ideals and products and TV shows? The US is not forcing people to watch that garbage. They do so because they want to. They do so even though it is illegal in many Muslim countries to do so. They do not get it of terrestrial TV - which is mainly government-run - but of satellite TV. They choose to watch it. They pay to watch it. If they did not like it, they would not watch it. Are you seriously suggesting people ought to be forced not to watch pay-TV? If so, how can you stop them?

 

[Trumble]

the goverment that is in place has been chosen by the people!?? democraticlly put in!? think....

Yes, it was. Why would you think otherwise? Final turnout was around 57% (although initial claims were somewhat higher), which is the sort of figure you would expect in Western countries - although in those, of course, there are no threats of being murdered if you do.

do you have any idea what state iraq is in!? what suffering the people havesen? they dont care who rules they just want some kind of normalty...

If they didn't care, why did 57% of them turn out to vote for their preferred candidates? They could have just stayed at home.

a goverment that plays ball with the west is what will be in place of saddam who did not play ball..

a goverment more willing to take o the dress and ideas of the west that is all...

Looking at its composition, I find that highly unlikely. The dominant faction is the Shia United Iraqi Alliance, its candidates all sponsored by the Grand Ayatollah Ali Sistani. Saddam's regime was far more likely to "take to the dress and ideas of the West"!

 

[bint_muhammed]

As far as I am aware what is going on in Iraq right now is that an elected parliament, with many members from all the major ethnic, religious and political groups, are meeting to approve Iraq's first full-term government since Saddam was ousted. Sounds like democracy to me. The electoral turnout was very high, and many of those who didn't vote failed to do so only because they were threatened by the so-called "resistance".

I by no means approve of everything happening in Iraq, and indeed much of US foreign policy in general, but I see no reason to think the Iraqi government is anything other than democratic. It is certainly far more legitimate (in the sense of being there as a result of the will of the people) than Saddam's regime ever was.

I would point out, also, that the whole reason for the current problems in Palestine is that a Hamas government was democratically elected using exactly the same process.

really you an outsider really think that ist more democratic! well let me tell u sumthing, a persn who has experienced war you do not kno wat hell is like if ya hant been there. i feel sick wen peole like you who hav no idea, and make comments bout countries like iraq using the BIAS national british news to make judgment believing it more democratic. PEOPLE LIKE U NEED TO WAKE , NEED TO LOOK THIS IDEOLOGY CREATED BY PEOPLE SUCH AS THE US GOVERNMENT AND SEE THE REAL PROBLEMS!!!!!!!:heated: :heated: :heated:

 

[Islamicboy]

I had no choice when i was young my parents came to canada inshallaah I plan on moving away in couple of years.... A person living in the western can go astray easily.

 

[HeiGou]

I had no choice when i was young my parents came to canada inshallaah I plan on moving away in couple of years.... A person living in the western can go astray easily.

May I, in all seriousness, ask why you are waiting? Don't you trust that God will provide wherever you go for your Faith?

 

[Islamicboy]

I do trust in Allaah S.W.T inshallaah as soons as in couple of years i save enough money i can go. Also I did ask my parents couple of times to help me but they dont agree with me leaving. I can understand there concerns and why they wouldn't want me to leave.

 

[Trumble]

really you an outsider really think that ist more democratic! well let me tell u sumthing, a persn who has experienced war you do not kno wat hell is like if ya hant been there. i feel sick wen peole like you who hav no idea, and make comments bout countries like iraq using the BIAS national british news to make judgment believing it more democratic.

Could you please explain why you believe the elections were not democratic, and what form of government you believe would be more democratic?

 

[Dawud_uk]

Could you please explain why you believe the elections were not democratic, and what form of government you believe would be more democratic?

assalaamu alaykum,

personally i care nothing for your democracy, its methods or principles.

i am sorry, i dont respect democracy, so i will never respect democracy in iraq, afghanistan or any other islamic land. full stop and make du'a (suplication) to Allah for the muslims there to throw off democracy and establish genuine islamic states.

in islam ultimate authority lays with the creator of the heaven and the earth - Allah! not with the people as in democracy,
if the government wish to do something that is against shariah they cannot and it is disbelief to do so no matter how many people wish them to do it.

simularly secular 'muslim' governments commit acts of kufr (disbelief) by ruling by other than what Allah has revealed.

in a true islamic state, the most pious learned person is chosen as the ruler, not the person who has the most cash for a political campaign or who is the best and most slick speaker.

keep your democracy in the west, keep your troops in the west, keep your bribed kaffir murteed (apostate) puppet rulers in the west,we dont want them and then there will be no more attacks upon you either in the east or the west.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

 

[dishdash]

Daw'ud - on that point about leaders, I would say the most learned scholar is rarely the best leader. Different qualities are needed. A great leader will rely on the advice of the ulema but the ulema have never proved to be the best leaders.

We can pick a few that do not conform to this, but as a rule of thumb, scholarly types don't tend to make great leaders (and Islam accomodates this) and vice versa.

Which country in their current political and religious climate, would you suggest would make the best destination for us to go to?

 

[HeiGou]

personally i care nothing for your democracy, its methods or principles.

You're a revert right?

i am sorry, i dont respect democracy, so i will never respect democracy in iraq, afghanistan or any other islamic land. full stop and make du'a (suplication) to Allah for the muslims there to throw off democracy and establish genuine islamic states.

Well please don't let me stop you. Work for a non-democratic Islamic state wherever you want. But I think it is important not to do so violently. What do you think?

in islam ultimate authority lays with the creator of the heaven and the earth - Allah! not with the people as in democracy,
if the government wish to do something that is against shariah they cannot and it is disbelief to do so no matter how many people wish them to do it.

Well they can do it, but perhaps they should not. You see the difference? Without democracy how are you going to stop the government doing what it should not? I have a distrust of the Cult of Personality approach you seem to be taking - it is too typical of some Catholics I know who wanted that one perfect man and so as a result supported Franco or Mussolini or even a short Austrian guy. But let's go with your dictator approach - you have that one pious man in power and he wants to do something Un-Islamic. How do you stop him without a vote? Remember that it took a handful of Caliphs before the Caliphate became a Kingdom and that was despite knowing Muahmmed personally and many of those Caliphs being of excellent moral character.

in a true islamic state, the most pious learned person is chosen as the ruler, not the person who has the most cash for a political campaign or who is the best and most slick speaker.

Who is going to choose the most pious learned person?

keep your democracy in the west, keep your troops in the west, keep your bribed kaffir murteed (apostate) puppet rulers in the west,we dont want them and then there will be no more attacks upon you either in the east or the west.

Funny, when the Muslims invaded Spain I don't recall any Spanish soldiers in the Muslim world or any bribed kaffir murteed (apostate) puppet rulers. And yet they still were invaded. What makes you think that the attacks will stop simply because the West withdraws from the Middle East?

 

[Caliphate]

This is a good question. The hypocrits still keep asking why we hate the west while they burn our houses, kill our fathers and sons, humiliate and rape our mothers and daughters, exploite and plounder the resources from our lands, and now not only do they sto here they even occupy our heart: Palestine land of the symbol of Al Israa Wal Mi3raaj.

Yet they keep asking this silly question which they should answer themselves wallahi. They play with our intellect and our intelligence when they ask this, because they should know their crimes and realize the fact that muslims are the victims and had always been attacked by the ignorant west, not to mention the daily attacks and killings of muslim nations in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan I could go on as the LIST is very long. I myself grew up in the west, and here is where I have lived almost all my life, but just because of that it doesnt mean that I love the west. How can I love those who commit all those cirmes against us? They are the reason why our parents left their countries to seek a better life, because the west destroyed the Islamic state which used to protect the interests of the muslims and replaced it with their evil systems over the muslim lands and set up puppet regimes to oppress the muslims, divide them , corrupt them and to exploide their resources. Indeed they are those who made our parents leave their countries because they were oppressed and the puppet regimes which serves the interest of the ignorant west made their lives a misery and a hell so they start seeking a better life for themselves and for their children. So here we are, the second generation of those parent-generation and they expect us to love their corrupt and ignorant values and systems?

The answer is clear, and it will be no as the west is the mother of all crimes and all misery we witness in all muslim lands in the hands of the agents they hire to torture, kill, humiliate,oppress and abuse muslims in all the muslim world.

One thing should be understood right: I am not saying or having any intention to kill or attack any person in the west, in fact Islam is an intellectual ideology and the system which would organize the affairs of all human beings, so here I wantt o make clear that we are not wanting to kill or attack the western people. But to give them an alternative to their failed and corrupt systems and values, which is Islam to save them from the man-made systems which only oppress and bring humanity to misery. Indeed Islam forbids the killing and attacking of western people in the west, but as those who occupy as in the case in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan it is a Duty from Islam on every muslim in the world. Islam is the alternative and the only solution for the west and for the muslim world and the rest of the world as humanity is yearning after justice, peace, securiy and the hnour of being a human, and wallahi only Islam can prove humanity all this without limuiting it to muslims only but to all humans regardless their religion, race or culture.

Only Islam is the Solution.

 

[primitivefuture]

Yes, Islam is the solution.

 

[HeiGou]

This is a good question. The hypocrits still keep asking why we hate the west while they burn our houses, kill our fathers and sons, humiliate and rape our mothers and daughters, exploite and plounder the resources from our lands, and now not only do they sto here they even occupy our heart: Palestine land of the symbol of Al Israa Wal Mi3raaj.

Funny, I do not remember anyone burning houses, killing fathers and sons, raping mothers and daughters in Copenhagen. Wow. Denmark must be a much rougher and tougher place than I thought.

They play with our intellect and our intelligence when they ask this, because they should know their crimes and realize the fact that muslims are the victims and had always been attacked by the ignorant west,

Really? In 800 where was the West attacking Islam? In 1000? In 1400? In 1700?

I myself grew up in the west, and here is where I have lived almost all my life, but just because of that it doesnt mean that I love the west. How can I love those who commit all those cirmes against us?

Who are the Danes killing in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan?

Indeed Islam forbids the killing and attacking of western people in the west, but as those who occupy as in the case in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan it is a Duty from Islam on every muslim in the world.

But if it is the West that is occupying Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan, why isn't it a duty, in your opinion, for every Muslim to attack the West?

 

[HeiGou]

Yes, Islam is the solution.

Why do you believe that? Where has it been tried since Ali died and worked? Where has it been partially tried and made things partially better since Ali died? I can accept that as a statement of belief, but is it anything more?

 

[Caliphate]

assalaamu alaykum,

personally i care nothing for your democracy, its methods or principles.

i am sorry, i dont respect democracy, so i will never respect democracy in iraq, afghanistan or any other islamic land. full stop and make du'a (suplication) to Allah for the muslims there to throw off democracy and establish genuine islamic states.

in islam ultimate authority lays with the creator of the heaven and the earth - Allah! not with the people as in democracy,
if the government wish to do something that is against shariah they cannot and it is disbelief to do so no matter how many people wish them to do it.

simularly secular 'muslim' governments commit acts of kufr (disbelief) by ruling by other than what Allah has revealed.

in a true islamic state, the most pious learned person is chosen as the ruler, not the person who has the most cash for a political campaign or who is the best and most slick speaker.

keep your democracy in the west, keep your troops in the west, keep your bribed kaffir murteed (apostate) puppet rulers in the west,we dont want them and then there will be no more attacks upon you either in the east or the west.

assalaamu alaykum,
Daw'ud

Takbiiir- Allahu Akbar

Takbiiir- Allahu akbar

Takbiir-Allahu akbar

Assalamu alikom wr Allah wb ya akhi al kariim.

Mashallah your words of truth touchs the heart of al Muminoon wallahi, I ask Allah swt to make the rest of muslim Ummah realize the fact that democracy is Kufr and it is corrupt. The mask of ignorant democracy and all other wester values are falling off as we see all their acts against innocent people being kept as detainees in Guantanamo without any crime or a prove for this. Wallahi only Al Khilafah is the solution for muslims, because Allah swt says:

"He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth to make it victorious over all (other) ways of life even though the Mushrikun (polytheists) hate (it). "

[ As Saff: 8 - 9]

Only Khilafah is the Solution

 

[Rou]

Why do you believe that? Where has it been tried since Ali died and worked? Where has it been partially tried and made things partially better since Ali died? I can accept that as a statement of belief, but is it anything more?

lol your questioning why or how islam has made things better or it hasnt!??

on what basis again!? islam as a way of life has made it better for many muslims who llive around the world if your talking about goverments and ways of life that is don to the human population not the religon...

islam as a religon if followed correctly lol even to the basics improves your life

what are you matching up islam to again?

compared to what??

western life?

IF!! islam was allowed to prosper without intervention yes it would grow if money was not allowed to make the world go round indeed it would make things better but unfortunatly the balance in this world is tipped by unfair economics and to survive one must play a games with this economics...

saudi arabia if you think is in any way a view of what a caliphate under true islamic law would be like then you are gravely mistaken...

the rules are bartered between the well off and the poor just as in the USA and the UK...

oil that is bought by the west and the power that is given to those who do not deserve it nake sure that the balance in islam can not be laid down...

you say islam has not improved any thing or brought any good since the time of ali!?? and how much research did you do to get to that as it is an untrue statment!

the caliphate improved itself and grew in power and knowledge well after ali.

islam has improved so many peoples lives mine included and you right it of as a goverment that controls a country!? you are misguided in thinking that there is a diffrence in a goverment and a way of life the islamic way of life demands peace and demands fairness where as the fairness shown in the UK and USA are abhorent!

the people are used there ways of life controlled to the last second...

if caliphate is reborn and it will be and when islam is followed clearly then question it... not in times where the economic market control who starves and who suffers...

including the saudi leaders who have sold themselves and become used to living there rich ways while there brothers suffer...

do not mistake that for islam...

for it is nothing but greed that has spread like a disease...

and do not pass your judgment on that of which you do not know...

your right in our life time we have not seen the caliphate nor its success but you aint dead yet...