Why do you live in the West if you hate it so?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Uma Rayanah
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies Replies 447
  • Views Views 39K
Greetings,
primitivefuture said:
He meant that kaffirs, as humans and creations of God, don't deserve to enjoy this planet when they fail to obey their Creator.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you feel confident enough to respond for someone else, and you may be right in your interpretation, but I think I'll wait for the originator of the comment to explain his own words.

Peace
 
woodworm said:
Those stupid extremists like bin laden hate the west because we are more efficient than the east. we have more money, and your jellous. your living the lifestyle we had 500 years ago for crying out flaming loud!
and trying to run a country with religion is a baaad idea.
Click to expand...

Woodworm - :blind: me - :giggling:

i have nothing more to say.....
 
Rou said:
im talking about many have lived under muslims rule whop werent muslims and they were not oppressed or made to be muslims...
Click to expand...

Sounds like how the West treats Muslims only less so.

they were allowed to follow there religon and lived peacefully alongside muslims...
Click to expand...

Indeed. Mind you they also had to pay special taxes. As a Muslim in the West, do you?

to be muslim is a choice it can not be forced...
Click to expand...

Well that is not entirely true depending on what you mean by "Muslim". The Dhimmi status was only ever offered to Jews, Christians, Sabians, Zoroastrians and eventually Hindus in practice but not in theory wasn't it? Pagans were not given a choice, they had to convert.

there is a massive misconception of islam and thats why it is feared and that which is feared is attacked and in the end wether you like it or not that which is attacked will strike back...
Click to expand...

I would argue that the more experience people have of Islam as it is actually practiced, or at least has been in the past, the more they fear Islam. Greece is not known for its fondness for Turkey, nor India for Pakistan, nor Israel for any Arab nation. Japan on the other hand has no idea what being ruled by Muslims means and so there is ignorance but no fear. Would you say that is a fair comment or perhaps you have some counter-examples of non-Muslim countries which really get on well with their Muslim neighbors - Serbia perhaps?

there is no point in complaining about it afterwards...
Click to expand...

nd yet everyone is here complaining about America striking back when attacked.

islam is peace but it will strike back when attacked simple...
Click to expand...

And so has America. Is that their right to do so?
 
Rou said:
once again hei gou you have answered in ignorance of what you truly speak of?
Click to expand...

Well I do try my best.

america as peacful was it?

so america didnt do anything and muslims just decided they would start to attack this country is that what you beleive? i suggest you do a little more research before talking about something...
Click to expand...

I did not say America was peaceful. Why do you feel the need to invent claims I have not made? But as it happens, yes, America was peacefully minding its own business when Osama Bin Laden and his friends fly some planes into some buildings. America had done nothing to OBL, nor to his friends. And I notice that people who do have grounds for complaint - the Palestinians for instance - did not approve of this attack at all. So what is it, do you think, that America did to OBL that made them deserve this attack?

i pay tax to the country indeed i do...and you say those who were not muslim were made to pay tax!? indeed you are correct they paid tax just as i do in this country whats your point???
Click to expand...

I assume you pay the same taxes as everyone else. Non-Muslims paid a special discriminatory tax. Do you pay any of those?

the tax that non muslims paid in a muslim state was nothing compared to the fact that they were defended within that state by muslim soilders
Click to expand...

Defend from whom exactly? Do you mean their Christian brothers just over the border? Do you mean the Bedouin who were prone to plunder? Do you mean perhaps the Turkic nomads from Central Asia? I mean on the whole you have to say that the Muslims did not do a good job of protecting the kafirs from people they wanted to be protected from but they did do a good job of preventing the kafirs being protected by the people they wanted to be protected by.

adn the fact that muslims had to pay the zakat that was considrebly higher than the tax of the non muslims.
Click to expand...

There is no evidence of that and I would like to see you try to prove it. Non-Muslims also paid the Kharaj which was 50 percent of their crop in the case of the Jews of Khaybar. Muslims only paid the ushr, which was the same as the Roman agricultural tax, at 10 percent. The pressure of tax was enough to force dhimmis off the land en masse and many of them convert. Again you can see who paid taxes because the Ummayyads often refused to accept that people had converted and sent Muslims back to farm the land and pay taxes as if they were dhimmis. If the taxes were the same, they would not have cared.

as i said i suggest you do your research before talking nd stop attacking islam on the basis o india and pakistan and dont tell me indians dont like pakistan on the basis of it being a muslim state ok mate cos its on the basis of kashmir not being muslim as there are thousands of muslims in india.
Click to expand...

I am happy to be corrected if you have evidence of some massive ground swell of love for Muslims in India. I can trivially point to dozens of Indian authors who express very different views and the existence of the BJP.

and no one was MADE to convert and if people make another forcully convert then that is not islam...for to force someone to in to any religon is against the religon itself...
Click to expand...

Go and read the Chachnama. But if you can't be bothered, can we agree that the day before the Muslims captured Mecca and destroyed all the idols there were no Muslims in Mecca. And the day after they captured Mecca and destroyed all the idols there were no non-Muslims in Mecca?

do not make enemies of those who do not wish to be your enemy...for it makes no sense...
Click to expand...

Indeed. This is what I tell Muslims. I do not think it is non-Muslims making enemies of Muslims. I think the non-Muslims of Europe especially have offered the hand of friendship to the Muslims of world. And in return they have dead people on the Paris underground, dead people on buses in London, dead people on trains in Spain.

as i said no one is attacking you so it seems irrelvent for you to attack them...

seek justice not enemies...
Click to expand...

Indeed. I like that last bit and it would be so much more effective coming from anyone else. But you are attacking me. This post is mainly a rant against me personally. There are people out there trying to kill me. I am not inventing enemies I do not have. I think we all need to work together but I am happy to accept that with some people that is not possible.
 
HeiGou said:
Well I do try my best.



I did not say America was peaceful. Why do you feel the need to invent claims I have not made? But as it happens, yes, America was peacefully minding its own business when Osama Bin Laden and his friends fly some planes into some buildings. America had done nothing to OBL, nor to his friends. And I notice that people who do have grounds for complaint - the Palestinians for instance - did not approve of this attack at all. So what is it, do you think, that America did to OBL that made them deserve this attack?



I assume you pay the same taxes as everyone else. Non-Muslims paid a special discriminatory tax. Do you pay any of those?



Defend from whom exactly? Do you mean their Christian brothers just over the border? Do you mean the Bedouin who were prone to plunder? Do you mean perhaps the Turkic nomads from Central Asia? I mean on the whole you have to say that the Muslims did not do a good job of protecting the kafirs from people they wanted to be protected from but they did do a good job of preventing the kafirs being protected by the people they wanted to be protected by.



There is no evidence of that and I would like to see you try to prove it. Non-Muslims also paid the Kharaj which was 50 percent of their crop in the case of the Jews of Khaybar. Muslims only paid the ushr, which was the same as the Roman agricultural tax, at 10 percent. The pressure of tax was enough to force dhimmis off the land en masse and many of them convert. Again you can see who paid taxes because the Ummayyads often refused to accept that people had converted and sent Muslims back to farm the land and pay taxes as if they were dhimmis. If the taxes were the same, they would not have cared.



I am happy to be corrected if you have evidence of some massive ground swell of love for Muslims in India. I can trivially point to dozens of Indian authors who express very different views and the existence of the BJP.



Go and read the Chachnama. But if you can't be bothered, can we agree that the day before the Muslims captured Mecca and destroyed all the idols there were no Muslims in Mecca. And the day after they captured Mecca and destroyed all the idols there were no non-Muslims in Mecca?



Indeed. This is what I tell Muslims. I do not think it is non-Muslims making enemies of Muslims. I think the non-Muslims of Europe especially have offered the hand of friendship to the Muslims of world. And in return they have dead people on the Paris underground, dead people on buses in London, dead people on trains in Spain.



Indeed. I like that last bit and it would be so much more effective coming from anyone else. But you are attacking me. This post is mainly a rant against me personally. There are people out there trying to kill me. I am not inventing enemies I do not have. I think we all need to work together but I am happy to accept that with some people that is not possible.
Click to expand...

Hei gou is it worth talking to you!?? your not even reading carefully!? i said they were made to pay a tax that supported the state you say it discriminated them!? are you feeling ok!? they were paying a less tax than the muslims them selves so that they could be protected within that muslim state!?

so whos the lesser person in the situation the muslims who are protecting everyone and payjing more taxes or the muslims who put there lives at risk to protect the whole state and still pay higher taxes1??

i suggest you take your hate and live with it instead of trying to pin muslims with all diffrent acusations that end up false ayhow!?

i mean its pathatic what kind of life is that!?

do you even know what your talking about your posts are a joke!?

your saying christians wanted protection from others but were made to stay in islamic states!?? facts mate when the crusaders came the jews and the christians of the middle east came to the muslims for protection as the crusaders were barbaric and raped and killed any one they came past!

the christians and jews were protected by muslims they were not prisoners they could have left at any point!



HeiGou said:
Go and read the Chachnama. But if you can't be bothered, can we agree that the day before the Muslims captured Mecca and destroyed all the idols there were no Muslims in Mecca. And the day after they captured Mecca and destroyed all the idols there were no non-Muslims in Mecca?.
Click to expand...

here we go again with ignorance to the truth!?

what you think i have never come past these lies beore!?? get your facts straight ok!

FOR ONE! mecca was a temple to the one god allah that was built by abraham so the idols that were in it were there against the will of the man who built the temple to the one god...

so what was islams was taken back and SECOND!

the idols were not smashed in the barbaric way that you put it , prophet mohammed (peace be upon him) asked the beleivers in the idols that if you beleive these idols as gods that you have made from your own hands and fear them so they should be able to protect themselves... the beleivers said that that is what they beleived, then the prophet (peace be upon him) asked if he would go to smash them would they protect themselves , he was told yes at which point he said to the beleivers that i can smash these idols and they will not strike back in any way..the beleivers found this to be untrue ,and they were asked before they idols were smashed to prove to them that there would be no out come!

let me guess you have read nothing of what i wrote and will continue on your pathetic course!? go right ahead its your life and your hate that will waste it...

DO RESEARCH!!!!

stop coming out with whats in your head cos whats in your head is there beacuse you hate islam and muslims beacuse your nothing but a puppet that has been fed this hate since you were born!!

as i stated what basis are you attacking islam on!?? do you see anyone attacking you!??!

whos talking of india? whos attacking hindus?? whos questioning atheists here!??

not every muslim mate and so far on this thread and the many that ive seen no one has !

no doubt many have but you seem to make a following out of trying to make muslims look bad!?

all i can say is congratulations you seem to be following SUCH a noble cause hey!?

you truly are the saviour and not the destroyer right!?

you are the defender not the attacker right!?

carry on with your false hate and see where in the end it gets you....
 
Last edited:
a.abraar said:
why all this disagreement about residing in these lands,the youth need guidance and help
Click to expand...

:sl:

As a youth, I know what the situation is, Haram is in our faces on a daily basis, It's very risky to live in a non-muslim country when your iman isn't strong.
 
You telling me, so many bro and sis go astray. All we can do is become better muslim and lead the way for the next generation, and that is from better education on our deen.
 
Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

I was debating PrimitiveFuture in another thread and felt that it would be best to start a new thread instead of going off topic. I'm not saying that I agree with further isolation, but it is worth debating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by primitivefuture
Yes, I know. My point is that Muslims do not want to part of a society that is so sinful its disgusting.


I've thought about this. I sympathize with those who feel their lives are negatively affected by the majority of people in western societies. In the USA we have the Amish population which have the same dislike for western society. They isolate themselves within their own communities. They home school their kids, or have their own schools, they live peacefully with little interaction among the rest of society. Could this be a possible solution for Muslims in Western society?
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

It possibly could, but remember not all muslims in the west think that western society is disgusting i know all too many muslims who drink, have lots of premarital sex, cheat, basically act disgusting, etc etc. It is a fact that western societies have no morals, i mean most claim they are christian, catholic etc yet do not even go by their own books of faith because those activites i just stated above go against the bible as well. Maybe im babbling but this is just my take on things.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Globalisation makes it impossible for Muslims to to isolate from the West.

And considering the fact that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the US, I find your idea quite unrealistic.
 
Re: Should Muslims choose islolation in the West?

Crystal4Peace said:
It possibly could, but remember not all muslims in the west think that western society is disgusting i know all too many muslims who drink, have lots of premarital sex, cheat, basically act disgusting, etc etc. It is a fact that western societies have no morals, i mean most claim they are christian, catholic etc yet do not even go by their own books of faith because those activites i just stated above go against the bible as well. Maybe im babbling but this is just my take on things.
Click to expand...

You speak some truth. My suggestion of further isolation is for those Muslims who do adhere to Islam and hate western society, yet wish to live in those societies.
 

Similar Threads

Back
Top