Why does the Quran deny Jesus as a son of God ?

[davejames2027]

The penalty for breaking God's law is prescribed according to crime committed.

the Law was sent to humanity not to "cleanse" them of sin - but it was sent to mankind so that they know how to live in accordance to Gods will - simple as that.

I do not mean to put you down in any ways but I would like to use you as an example of the fact that even you do not follow the bible yourself.

you are greeting everyone with "Hello Sir"

But Bible says:

Luke 24:36
[ Jesus Appears to the Disciples ] While they were still talking about this, Jesus himself stood among them and said to them, "Peace be with you."

John 20:19
[ Jesus Appears to His Disciples ] On the evening of that first day of the week, when the disciples were together, with the doors locked for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

John 20:21
Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you."

John 20:26
A week later his disciples were in the house again, and Thomas was with them. Though the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, "Peace be with you!"

-------------------------------
Of course Jesus did not speak English, he said, "Peace be with you!" in his native Aramaic, which was "Shalom aleichem" itself, and we know Aramaic was only a dialect of Hebrew.

Do you ever wonder why Christians do not use the greeting of Jesus (on him peace)? Muslims greet each other with the greetings of Peace just like all the Prophets of God (Peace and Blessings be upon them all). Makes you wonder why the Christians do not relate their greetings to that of their beloved Savior

You have to see the truth that the Bible has been not only corrupted but also has been abandoned with the excuse that "Jesus died for our sins"

That is why Muslims follow the Quran and try their best to do what it says.
Allah sees the intention of the people and judges them.
It is our efforts we are judged on not our "sins" alone.
For sin is nothing for God - he can wipe out the sins of the entire human race with his Mercy alone.


Even Jesus him self said When a diciple asked why not preach to everyone ?
He Said: "I have not but come on to the lost sheep of Isreal"

Further more Jesus is not the only Begotten son of God according to the Bible itself:

BEGOTTEN???

Psalms 2:7….(God said to David)….I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me(David), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Furthermore you find in some places in the Bible the word "lord" written in Capitals like so: LORD
In other places you find it in smalls like this "lord"

Bible was in hebrew or Aramiac - whichever language u believe out of the 2 - but the fact is either of these languages DO NOT contain Capitals letters! So who decided what to put in caps and what to put in smalls ?

Greetings,

Here is the original biblical verse that you posted. I reposted it because words were added to it to suit the purposes.

Ps 2:7 ¶ "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.

God`s word has many levels. This was a psalm of David. He was also a prophet and this verse is saying that God does beget. When God creates people or angels, this is what we term "beget". Adam was a son of God and Christ was a son of God because lineage can be traced (see Luke). Adam was a son of God because He was created by God.

Nowhere in Quran is it explicitly written that the Bible is 100% corrupt. Only atheist and muslims I heard say this.

The Quran mentions by name most of the Prophets of old which are written in the Bible, but you listen to men who say the Bible is corrupted and therefore reject it as a whole.

The mere fact that "Lord" is written in caps or not should not be the cause of someones falling away from the faith. Would you reject the Quran if sometimes "Mohamed" was written as "Muhhamed" or again as "Mohammad" ? My personal Quran (Kanzul Iman) has many spelling mistakes which makes a mockery of the english language. Do I use this as an excuse to not believe the words written therein ?

We are not monkeys. We are men, will we therefore reject the Bible because someone said so ? Does Gabriel in the Quran say to reject the Bible ? Does Mohamed tell us to reject the Bible ?

The Bible says that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and Mohamed is subtely telling us also in the Quran to read the books of the Holy Scriptures. Prophet Mohamed mentions Abraham, Isaac,Jacob, Jesus,Jonas,David,Solomon . Do you think he invented these names ?

Why should we believe our teachers who say the Bible is corrupt and not to be heeded ?

Do we follow man or do we seek to follow Allah ?

You said :You have to see the truth that the Bible has been not only corrupted but also has been abandoned with the excuse that "Jesus died for our sins"

Do you abandon God`s Prophet and Messiah because mainstream Christianity uses the excuse "Jesus died for our sins" ?

Jesus was greater than Mohamed. Not to obey the Bible because of the excuse "the Bible is corrupt" does not come from angels or Allah but from men.

 

[minaz]

Not to obey the Bible because of the excuse "the Bible is corrupt" does not come from angels or Allah but from men.

Or plain common sense

 

[Khaldun]

Jesus called himself the son of man , meaning , the son of Adam. Indeed , Jesus was 100% human. When he came, he was not an angel nor indeed was he Allah but he was a man. He was however a sinless man. You said :So why then single out Jesus as His "son"? I didn`t say it. Jesus himself said it :
Lu 22:70 Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am." (NKJV)

Please clarify, is Jesus son of God or son of Man I sense your perhaps confused?

There seems to be a conflict. All the words that Jesus spoke, it was not his words ,but it was His Father`s words. What this means is that all the words that Jesus spoke when he was on the earth as a man was Allah`s word. Do you trust Allah ? And Because you agree with me that Jesus was a mighty prophet, then I trust you believe his words.

I trust Allah :brother: although I trust the Quran more then I trust the Bible.

And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things. I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. [Surah Maidah Ayah 116-117]

You say that Jesus was not a son of God when Jesus himself says so and I believe Mohamed held the view that Jesus is a son of God (even if those surahs appear to say otherwise)

Please bring evidence before making any claims about what the Prophet (Peace and blessings upon him) believed. And tell me, if the Prophet really believed, as you say, that Jesus was the son of God then why would the Quran be full with conflicting verses and statments?

The Taurat, Prophets and the Gospel are truth. Mohamed held this view as well. You cannot call yourself a believer or a follower of Mohamed if you do not acknowledge Christ as the son of God. Allah is one. The term "son of God" doesn`t mean that you are AlLah. He is a son of the Father. Gabriel is equally a son of God.

You have mixed truth with falsehood I am afraid, lets seperate it, shall we? Firstly you are right about that us muslims have to believe in the previous scripture however it is a known factthat these books have undergone changes throughout time and thus their authenticity cant be varified, and thats why Allah sent down the Quran, a final statement to mankind from the same Lord that sent down the Taurah and Injeel. And Allah promised its preservation Himself, Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian. [Surah Hijr Ayah 9]

And if we look historically this is indeed the case the Quran is still in arabic as it was revealed and it hasnt been changed at all, even in the slightest. All Praise be to Allah Your second statment I am afraid is utter rubbish. And it makes me wonder, do you really read the Quran? Surely you have read;
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! [Surah Tawbah Ayah 30]

Please define what you mean by the term "son" as I feel we do not agree with eachother on this. Are you the son of God aswell?

Now my problem is why did Mohamed say that Allah does not beget when Allah has so clearly made it known to us that He did beget many sons and daughters.

Im sorry but Allah has not said that, and be careful in utter such a lie.

Say: Those who forge a lie against Allah shall not be successful. [Surah Yunus Ayah 69]

 

[Khaldun]

Some people keep repeating that the Quran is perfect and complete. If it is from God it should be, but then why is there hadith to complete and perfect the Quran?

To Complete? This is a false statement without any basis to it, the hadith explains the Quran, they go hand in hand, since the Hadith is from the Messenger of Allah it will not contradict the Quran in the slightest.

Turin Turambar, thats a nice fairy tale you have put there unless you have any solid evidence to bring please do not post such things, as anyone can make up baseless theories and it would not help us in this disscussion in the slightest.

 

[davejames2027]

Please clarify, is Jesus son of God or son of Man I sense your perhaps confused?


I trust Allah :brother: although I trust the Quran more then I trust the Bible.

And when Allah will say: O Isa son of Marium! did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah he will say: Glory be to Thee, it it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things. I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things. [Surah Maidah Ayah 116-117]



Please bring evidence before making any claims about what the Prophet (Peace and blessings upon him) believed. And tell me, if the Prophet really believed, as you say, that Jesus was the son of God then why would the Quran be full with conflicting verses and statments?


You have mixed truth with falsehood I am afraid, lets seperate it, shall we? Firstly you are right about that us muslims have to believe in the previous scripture however it is a known factthat these books have undergone changes throughout time and thus their authenticity cant be varified, and thats why Allah sent down the Quran, a final statement to mankind from the same Lord that sent down the Taurah and Injeel. And Allah promised its preservation Himself, Surely We have revealed the Reminder and We will most surely be its guardian. [Surah Hijr Ayah 9]

And if we look historically this is indeed the case the Quran is still in arabic as it was revealed and it hasnt been changed at all, even in the slightest. All Praise be to Allah Your second statment I am afraid is utter rubbish. And it makes me wonder, do you really read the Quran? Surely you have read;
And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away! [Surah Tawbah Ayah 30]

Please define what you mean by the term "son" as I feel we do not agree with eachother on this. Are you the son of God aswell?



Im sorry but Allah has not said that, and be careful in utter such a lie.

Say: Those who forge a lie against Allah shall not be successful. [Surah Yunus Ayah 69]

Concerning the term "son of God"

Here is some verses concerning this.

Job 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Ga 3:26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

We cannot be sons of God without acknowledging Jesus Christ as the Messiah and beleiving him AND doing God`s will. Knowing that Allah is one and there is no One like Him is a foundation of truth. Islam has understood this. Mainstream Christianity has not, unfortunately.

Jesus said:
Mr 3:35 "For whoever does the will of God is My brother and My sister and mother."

Be careful to judge me so quickly. There is a difference in someone who intently seeks to forge a lie and willingly deceive people and those who simply believe and want to share his view.

There is something that we all have to understand when reading Holy Writ or the Quran. We must be very cautious to deduce an idea or make a final conclusion when reading a certain statement. Here is what I mean:

Statement:
The ox (cow) with both of its ears piearced is in my backyard.

If I was to proceed to write down on a piece of paper that the ox with its right ear piearced is in my backyard, what might people conclude by my written statement?

1) I own the ox because it is in my backyard
2) that the animal`s left ear is not piearced

These assumptions are not necessarily true. We must be cautious in making final conclusions with verses or surahs that we read. Satan is very crafty.

If the Quran speaks of only one resurrection, does that mean that the possibility of a second resurrection or even a third, or yet again a fourth is to be thrown to the ground and trampled ?
(Now, because I mention 4 resurrections, do you assume I believe this?)

Unless we read a statement like "There exists ONLY one resurrection for all time." , we must not deduce anything else.

That is how we must approach reading God`s Word.

Ironically, just as the traditions of men (which Jesus clearly rebuked) and error the Catholic Church held, Islam also.

Traditions of men are not to be obeyed but the Living God.

 

[Khaldun]

Ro 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

We cannot be sons of God without acknowledging Jesus Christ as the Messiah and beleiving him AND doing God`s will. Knowing that Allah is one and there is no One like Him is a foundation of truth. Islam has understood this. Mainstream Christianity has not, unfortunately.

Just as I suspected, there is a confusion in the term Son of God which most people have taken literally whereas even in the bible it has been translated as Servant and this is the orginial meaning of the Hebrew derivative.

Look at this;

King James Version
Acts 3:25 - Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

Acts 3:26 - Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.​

Compare it word for word with;

New King James Version
Acts 3:25 - You are the sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, 'And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Acts 3:26 - To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning every one of you away from his iniquities.​

This explains the word Son, and thus we do actually agree that in this sense Jesus was the "Son" of God (hebrew for Servant of God) see Son Of God?

Be careful to judge me so quickly. There is a difference in someone who intently seeks to forge a lie and willingly deceive people and those who simply believe and want to share his view.

Yes please do forgive me, but in my eyes this is still a lie against Allah, we will have to agree on disagreeing

There is something that we all have to understand when reading Holy Writ or the Quran. We must be very cautious to deduce an idea or make a final conclusion when reading a certain statement. Here is what I mean:

Statement:
The ox (cow) with both of its ears piearced is in my backyard.

If I was to proceed to write down on a piece of paper that the ox with its right ear piearced is in my backyard, what might people conclude by my written statement?

1) I own the ox because it is in my backyard
2) that the animal`s left ear is not piearced

These assumptions are not necessarily true. We must be cautious in making final conclusions with verses or surahs that we read. Satan is very crafty.

Praise be to Allah, you just explained the reason of the misunderstanding of the Word "Son" yourself! The word Son in hebrew is not the same as Son in other languages (take english as an example)

That is why Allah said;

Such is Isa, son of Marium; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute.

It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a ! son, glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is.

And surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.
[Surah Maryam Ayah 34-36]

If the Quran speaks of only one resurrection, does that mean that the possibility of a second resurrection or even a third, or yet again a fourth is to be thrown to the ground and trampled ?
(Now, because I mention 4 resurrections, do you assume I believe this?)

Unless we read a statement like "There exists ONLY one resurrection for all time." , we must not deduce anything else.

That is how we must approach reading God`s Word.

I understand your worry; however have you read Allah's statment?

And at the time when the hour shall come, the guilty shall swear (that) they did not tarry but an hour; thus are they ever turned away.

And those who are given knowledge and faith will say: Certainly you tarried according to the ordinance of Allah till the day of resurrection, so this is the day of resurrection, but you did not know. [Surah Ruum Ayah 55-56]

The Key word is "Day" and note it doesnt say "Days" thus there is only one main resurrection, I am sure you just took this as an example but Im only showing you that the Quran is not ambiguis in the least and the Prophet did explain it to the people.

Ironically, just as the traditions of men (which Jesus clearly rebuked) and error the Catholic Church held, Islam also.

Traditions of men are not to be obeyed but the Living God.

I think you are refering to the Hadith, correct me if Im wrong.
However these arent traditions of men, they are the sayings of the Messenger of Allah surely he would be the most knowledgable when it comes to the Quran...

 

[Turin Turambar]

To Khaldun,

Please don't get angry. We are both looking for the truth. You say that my story is a "fairy tale" and ask for a proof. The problem is that you don't have any proof of your version either! You cannot say that the Quran is true because the Quran says so. That is obviously wrong form a logical point of view. You would need a proof external to the Quran and that you don't have. So either your version is right or my version is right, but we don't have proofs. What to do?

Let's try with a real fairy tale. Suppose that TODAY in some place in China where most people follow Buddha or Confucius a new religion arises. The founder wants people to follow him and he claims that he is receiving a dictation from God. He takes some doctrines from Bhudda and some from Confucius, he mixes them and presents them as the new religion. He claims that both Buddha and Confucius were prophets as he is but he is superior to them because he came last. He insists on total obedience to himself.

You are left with two options:

1) He is really receiving TODAY a revelation from God that happens to incorporate bits and pieces of already existing religions.

2) He has some familiarity with the older religions and he is making everything up, taking those bits and pieces from them as he sees convenient.

What would you believe? That is exactly what I believe.

 

[abdul Majid]

"The Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you."
[Bible - John 14:26]

Jesus, the son of Mary, said, "A messenger will come after me,named Ahmad."
[Quran 61:6]

The chief priests and Levites asked John the Baptist, "If you are not the Christ (Messiah), and not Elijah - are you THAT Prophet?"
[John 1:20]





When the chief priests and Levites asked John the Baptist who he was, they asked him in a very strange way. First the questioned him as to whether or not he was the anticipated "Messiah" [Christ in Koine Greek]. He was not the "Messiah" that had hoped for. Next they asked if he was the prophet Elijah and again he tells them, "No." Now comes the really strange part. Finally, they asked him if he is "That Prophet?"

*
1. Are you Christ? - [No]
* 2. Are you Elijah? - [No]
* 3. Are you THAT Prophet? - [No]

What did they mean by "That Prophet?" We of course, know who the "Christ" is. After all, Christians should know that "Christ" is merely a shortened form of the Koine Greek word "christos," intended to mean the Hebrew word "Messiah."

The Jews of two thousand years ago were definitely looking for the Messiah, who it was foretold in their books, would come and lead them to victory over their oppressors and thus gain for them mastery over this world. They were very oppressed under Roman domination and even their own Jewish kings were seen as nothing more than puppets or agents for the disbelievers. Certainly, they would have been most happy to see someone come on the scene who would defeat their Roman masters and slave drivers.

Then the priests and Levites asked John the Baptist if he might be the prophet Elijah, returning back after hundreds of years being away. There was the notion amongst them that Elijah would come back. But again, John the Baptist is denying he is Elijah.

Then, who is he? They wonder at this man living out in the desert and forsaking wealth and luxury and fasting, avoiding the material attractions of life.

Again, they ask John the Baptist who he is. "Are you THAT Prophet?" And one more time he denies being "THAT Prophet," but then he does tell them about someone who will come after him soon, whom he claims he is not worthy to even unlace his shoes.

However, this does not answer the question, "Who were they expecting besides the Messiah?" Could it be they were looking for someone like Muhammad? (Could be)

Who is THAT Prophet? -

Keep reading and learn who "That Prophet" is and what other proofs can be discovered within the Holy texts to support this idea.

____________________

For centuries Muslims have believed Jesus, peace be upon him, was "THAT Prophet" mentioned in these words of the Gospel of John. The Quran states one of the important features of Jesus' mission was to give the "bashir" or 'glad tidings' of the coming of the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him. During his short missionary career that lasted not more than three years, and which was overshadowed by the hostile attitude of his own people, Jesus gave them the good news of Ahmad, (one of the forms of "Muhammad") the last messenger of God, who would perfect the divine teaching both in theory and in practice. The Quran mentions that, Jesus says:
"O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah {Almighty God} (sent) to you, confirming the Law (Torah or Old Testament) before me, and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." (Surah 61:6)

The Quran gives the name as Ahmad, one of several ways to say Muhammad's name. Just as we have in English the name Joseph, and often use a shorter form such as "Joe" or the familiar form, "Joey," and other names like "Jonathan" which becomes "John"; "Jack" or "Johnny", so in the same way we find Arabic has similar forms for a name. Muhammad, Ahmad and Hamad are a few of the names originating from the root word, "hamd" (meaning 'praise) in Arabic, and can be understood as "The one who praises (God)"; "the praised one"; "praising"; etc.

Abdullah Yusuf Ali in his translation of the meanings of the Quran to English, he states, "Ahmad or Muhammad, the Praised One is a translation of the Koine Greek word Periclytos. In the present gospel of John 14:16, 15:26 and 16:7, the Greek word Paracletos is translated in the NIV as Comforter. Paracletos can mean an Advocate, or "one called to the help of another", "a kind friend." Muhammad, peace be upon him, was known from birth as one who brought comfort and reconciliation to family, friends and strangers alike, especially in bringing together the ties of kinship and brotherly love.

Another nick name of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, mentioned in the Bible (or at least what is left of it in the English language) is "The Spirit of Truth." As-Saddiq means exactly that and it is was another name given to Muhammad, peace be upon him, by those who knew his proclivity for honesty and integrity.

The New Testament Gospel according to John, Jesus, peace be upon him, promises them the Paracletos will come four times (John 14:16; 14:26; 15:26; 16:7). Naturally, Jesus, peace be upon him, did not return in their lifetime nor did any other prophet for that matter, so later thinkers came up with the notion that it was not Jesus "in person" but rather, Jesus coming back in "spirit form." This led some Christians to assert, this was to be the Holy Spirit, who would descend upon the disciples on the Day of the Pentecost (Acts 2), to witness Christ and lead them into the whole truth and to be with the believers forever, and they would not die (John 3:16), but have everlasting life. Also, some added verses later (see footnotes to Revised Standard Version of the Bible) to the very last chapter of Mark (16), wherein, they have the Spirit coming upon them in such a way they imagined themselves going to be able to speak with new languages; pick up snakes, lay hands on the sick to cure them and even drink poison and nothing would hurt them. [Luke 23:17-18]

Another point is, the Paracletos, comforter or the Spirit of truth, was going to dwell with us from now on. Certainly anyone could see Muhammad's influence and his message of worshipping only One God without any partners has prevailed long after his earthly life.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

1) He is really receiving TODAY a revelation from God that happens to incorporate bits and pieces of already existing religions.

2) He has some familiarity with the older religions and he is making everything up, taking those bits and pieces from them as he sees convenient.

In which case you admit that you have no evidence to back up your views on Prophet Muhammad pbuh but simply follow a personal bias in this matter.

 

[davejames2027]

Abdul Majid,

The greek word behind Spirit as in "spirit of truth" is "Pneuma" which is "Ruwack" in Hebrew.

Before Christ came to the earth, only a select few had God`s Ruh or Spirit. David wrote a song asking Allah not remove His Ruh from him. This could further give you hints and an indication of what exactly is God`s Spirit.

Ps 51:11 Do not cast me away from Your presence, And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

The Spirit of Truth that Christ mentionned in the Gospel of John is not Mohamed.

The Spirit of God is the Ruh of Allah. The Ruh is not a person. It is not Gabriel. It has no gender. It is the Power of Allah. We should not worship it but Allah only.

There was a prophet in the sacred land whose name was Yow’el and Allah revealed him this prophecy:

Then you shall know that I am in the midst of Israel: I am the LORD your God And there is no other. My people shall never be put to shame."And it shall come to pass afterward That I will pour out My Spirit (RUWACH) on all flesh; Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, Your old men shall dream dreams, Your young men shall see visions. And also on My menservants and on My maidservants I will pour out My Spirit in those days. "And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth: Blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD. And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.

This is the Spirit of Truth mentionned by our Lord Yahoshua. It is clearly not Mohamed. This prophecy in Yow`el has not been completed yet. It will only be complete when all flesh has Allah`s Ruah.

Joh 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. (NKJV)

This New Testament version has translated the original greek word "Parakletos" with the english word "Helper". The Parakletos is the Holy Spirit prophesied by Yow`el.

You cannot read the New Testament without the Hebrew Bible in the same way you cannot read the Quran without both the Hebrew Bible and New Testament. Do not listen to your teachers if they speak hatred toward Yahuwdah or any other people. We must not rebuke Shaitan if we are true worshippers of Elahh.

David

 

[akulion]

Greetings,

Here is the original biblical verse that you posted. I reposted it because words were added to it to suit the purposes.

Ps 2:7 ¶ "I will declare the decree: The LORD has said to Me, ‘You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.

God`s word has many levels. This was a psalm of David. He was also a prophet and this verse is saying that God does beget. When God creates people or angels, this is what we term "beget". Adam was a son of God and Christ was a son of God because lineage can be traced (see Luke). Adam was a son of God because He was created by God.

Nowhere in Quran is it explicitly written that the Bible is 100% corrupt. Only atheist and muslims I heard say this.

The Quran mentions by name most of the Prophets of old which are written in the Bible, but you listen to men who say the Bible is corrupted and therefore reject it as a whole.

The mere fact that "Lord" is written in caps or not should not be the cause of someones falling away from the faith. Would you reject the Quran if sometimes "Mohamed" was written as "Muhhamed" or again as "Mohammad" ? My personal Quran (Kanzul Iman) has many spelling mistakes which makes a mockery of the english language. Do I use this as an excuse to not believe the words written therein ?

We are not monkeys. We are men, will we therefore reject the Bible because someone said so ? Does Gabriel in the Quran say to reject the Bible ? Does Mohamed tell us to reject the Bible ?

The Bible says that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and Mohamed is subtely telling us also in the Quran to read the books of the Holy Scriptures. Prophet Mohamed mentions Abraham, Isaac,Jacob, Jesus,Jonas,David,Solomon . Do you think he invented these names ?

Why should we believe our teachers who say the Bible is corrupt and not to be heeded ?

Do we follow man or do we seek to follow Allah ?

You said :You have to see the truth that the Bible has been not only corrupted but also has been abandoned with the excuse that "Jesus died for our sins"

Do you abandon God`s Prophet and Messiah because mainstream Christianity uses the excuse "Jesus died for our sins" ?

Jesus was greater than Mohamed. Not to obey the Bible because of the excuse "the Bible is corrupt" does not come from angels or Allah but from men.

Your entire counter arguments are based on "take it as i say it" and dont adress the discrepencies...

Like I asked who decides where God is literal and where God is figuratively speaking?

who decides on tha caps ?

These things you dismiss so easily but for me they are very important because quite frankly I am not willing to hand over my self to the church on a silver platter and say "whatever u say is right"

As for "Jesus dying for our sins" is a self defeating argument because it makes the whole bible and its laws and rules obselete - so its credibility also goes don the drain quite frankly.

 

[abdul Majid]

dear dave,

im not gonna debate and all that but i agree on some things, like the bible itself was in aramayic, jews worship ilah as well, maybe thats why the crusified jesus(pbh) as they say....but What did they mean by "That Prophet?" We of course, know who the "Christ" is. After all, Christians should know that "Christ" is merely a shortened form of the Koine Greek word "christos," intended to mean the Hebrew word "Messiah."....and in ISLAM we beleive GODswt has NOO sons or duaghters or wife, GOD is all mighty, Moses(pbh) and the 10 COMANDMENTS, there really more but they say ten for now...., we beleive in them too,

 

[davejames2027]

Your entire counter arguments are based on "take it as i say it" and dont adress the discrepencies...

Like I asked who decides where God is literal and where God is figuratively speaking?

who decides on tha caps ?

These things you dismiss so easily but for me they are very important because quite frankly I am not willing to hand over my self to the church on a silver platter and say "whatever u say is right"

As for "Jesus dying for our sins" is a self defeating argument because it makes the whole bible and its laws and rules obselete - so its credibility also goes don the drain quite frankly.

Akulion,

You ask: Like I asked who decides where God is literal and where God is figuratively speaking?

God decides. We can only come to understand God`s Word if we have His Spirit in us. This is not polytheism. The Spirit of Allah is His power. It is the means we can understand spiritual matters. The only caveat for the gift of Allah`s Spirit is to be immersed under water in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and to believe that Jesus is the son of God. There is no other way. This is what Jesus taught the whole world. If we reject it and follow men`s traditions, we are not pleasing Allah and we will be raised up in the second resurrection with Hitler and Santa Claus. Allah is Allmighty and He is the One true God.

Mt 5:18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Allah`s Sacred Law must be kept, including the 7th day of rest from friday dark to saturday dark. We are not saved because we keep Allah`s Sacred Law. What has been abolished however are the animals sacrifices, and that, because that Temple was destroyed 1936 years ago.

You say: who decides on tha caps ?
These things you dismiss so easily but for me they are very important because quite frankly I am not willing to hand over my self to the church on a silver platter and say "whatever u say is right"

I dont know who decides on the caps. What is important is pleasing Allah by obeying His commandments which are written in the Hebrew Bible and being in Christ. Will you tell Jesus in your day that you didn`t believe in the Bible because there were "caps" ?

The men who teach to disobey the Bible will be in graver trouble than those who have been duped. We must obey Allah and not men`s traditions.

David

 

[akulion]

Once again you are talking about faith

I am asking about logical explanation

We cannot mix logic and faith - one cannot believe then decide its the truth

it has to be decide and then believe

 

[davejames2027]

Akulion,

Everything that we hear from our teachers, we must prove with God`s Word to see if it is true and if we must obey it. We must not obey men if it goes against Allah`s Sacred Law. True Worshippers of Allah would die rather than to obey men`s traditions.

Mainstream Christianity today has taught that it is okay to have crosses around your neck as a reminder of Jesus` death on the stake. To put a cross around your neck is a transgression of Allah`s Sacred Law. Anyone who wears crosses or lunar crescents or any graven image will not have life.

The term "sons of God" is for those who are loyal to Allah. It is not joining Allah with other gods. Jesus Christ was the Son of God. He was not Allah but he was His Son and Allah is the Father, Allmighty. Do not believe me but believe Jesus himself because He said it.

Lu 22:70 Then they all said, "Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am." (NKJV)

Will we be like the jews who in Jesus`time denied this ?

Matthew 16:16 Simon Peter answered and said, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. (NKJV)

Just as Jesus said, no man can convince someone that Jesus Christ is the Son of God but only Allah.

David

 

[azim]

God decides. We can only come to understand God`s Word if we have His Spirit in us.

I really dont know what kind of spirits you were drinking when you decided this, but you said...

This is not polytheism. The Spirit of Allah is His power. It is the means we can understand spiritual matters. The only caveat for the gift of Allah`s Spirit is to be immersed under water in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins and to believe that Jesus is the son of God. There is no other way. This is what Jesus taught the whole world.

If you can show me where in the Bible Jesus teaches the above, I might take you a little bit more seriously (but only a little).

If we reject it and follow men`s traditions, we are not pleasing Allah and we will be raised up in the second resurrection with Hitler and Santa Claus. Allah is Allmighty and He is the One true God.

Men's traditions...men like Paul? The laws of the Quran are the laws of the OT, both from God. Everything that you are preaching comes from Matthew, John, Luke, Mark and Paul. All of them men. None of them trustworthy.

Who is following men's teachings?

Who is following Gods?

 

[akulion]

All my teachers always explained things to us

So they were logical and we understood why we have to learn them

Even the alphabet - we learn it to be able to read and write all those colorful story books (made sence to me)

So I cannot believe first and then read

Its like someone saying to me "believe in the holy monkey - afterwards we can discuss the nitty gritty details"

Unacceptable

 

[davejames2027]

John 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
54 "Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 "For My flesh is food indeed, and My blood is drink indeed.
56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. (NKJV)

Joh 17:3 "And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (NKJV)

Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." (NKJV)

Cannibalism is forbidden. So is drinking blood. Unless you feed off from Christ, there is no life in you.

Matthew 28:17 And when they saw him they worshiped him; but some doubted.
18 And Jesus came and said to them, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age." (RSV)

False teachers of today will use verse 17 above to prove that the disciples worshipped Jesus so therefore he must be God. The original greek word behind "worshipped" here is the greek term "proskuneo". This means to make obeisance, whether in order to express respect or to make supplication. The apostles did not worship Jesus. They worshipped Allah. They prayed to Allah the Father, in the name of Jesus Christ.

The word "baptizing" here in verse 19 is the greek word "baptizo" which means to immerse, to submerge in water. Not sprinkled water on the forehead: Fully submerged under water in the name of Jesus Christ and Allah by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is what the original greek text says. This is not a tradition, these are the words Jesus Christ spoke. We must obey him.

Lu 6:46 "But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do the things which I say? (NKJV)

Lu 18:19 So Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.

You said:Men's traditions...men like Paul?

Definition of "tradition" according to the Oxford Dictionary 10th ed.:
1.Transmission of customs or beliefs from generation to generation, or the fact of being so passed on.

2.Theology (in Christianity) - Doctrine not explicit in the Bible but held to derive from the oral teaching of Christ and the Apostles.

3.(In Judaism) an ordinance of the oral law not in the Torah but held to have been given by God to Moses.

4.(in Islam) a saying or act ascribed to the Prophet but not recorded in the Koran.

All of these has Jesus Christ himself spoke against.

Mr 7:9 He said to them, "All too well you reject the commandment of God, that you may keep your tradition. (NKJV)

Mr 7:13 "making the word of God of no effect through your tradition which you have handed down. And many such things you do." (NKJV)

You said:Men's traditions...men like Paul? The laws of the Quran are the laws of the OT, both from God. Everything that you are preaching comes from Matthew, John, Luke, Mark and Paul. All of them men. None of them trustworthy.

The Quran doesn`t contain all of Allah`s commandments. Yes, men have written the Bible just as men have written the Quran. Now do you need for me to define to you the word "written" ?

We may think they are not valid but that is only because we disobey Allah and obey rather the traditions of our teachers. Nowhere in the Quran is it written that the Hebrew Bible is to be rejected.

True worshippers of Allah would die rather than to obey false teachers of traditions.

David

 

[Munda Pakistani]

Hello sir,

Logically, if the Bible could be corrupted, do you not think that the Quran could also be corrupted ?

The adversary (Shaitan) seeks to corrupt what is true (He doesnt bother to corrupt what is already false). The Quran, which was Gabriel`s words commanded by Allah in the 600`s is truth.

It is undeniable fact that some verses in the Bible have been corrupt. Shaitan seeks to corrupt what is true. He is the god of this world and has been given rulership of this planet. The verses that have been corrupted have all been exposed and documented. God has granted humanity immense mercy and grace by showing them to us.

We simply need to do some research and pray God that He bestows upon us mercy and He will indeed show us the corrupted verses. The important ones can be found on the internet.

What man among you will not seek and search the precious gem that fell into the barrel of cow dung, and be glad when he finds it ?

No. There are more than 10 million Muslims today who know the Qur'an by heart. Each and every word. How many people can say the same for the Bible.

If you agree that this Bible is indeed not as it was when it was revealed to Isa Alaih-as-Salam, then please tell me how you can tell which verses are corrupt? Is not every single verse the n in doubt?

When Allah sends a book to guide his sons, figuratively, he sends it for all manking unti the last day. And for that to happen, everyone must have access to Allah's word as it is. That, in turn, necessitates a book free of corruption; in a nutshell, that, in turn, necessitates the Qur'an.

Peace.

 

[davejames2027]

No. There are more than 10 million Muslims today who know the Qur'an by heart. Each and every word. How many people can say the same for the Bible.

If you agree that this Bible is indeed not as it was when it was revealed to Isa Alaih-as-Salam, then please tell me how you can tell which verses are corrupt? Is not every single verse the n in doubt?

When Allah sends a book to guide his sons, figuratively, he sends it for all manking unti the last day. And for that to happen, everyone must have access to Allah's word as it is. That, in turn, necessitates a book free of corruption; in a nutshell, that, in turn, necessitates the Qur'an.

Peace.

Greetings,

Learning the Quran or Bible by heart is utterly useless if we keep the false traditions of our teachers. God has given us the capacity to memorize scripture but that accomplishes nothing if we keep men`s traditions over Allah`s Sacred Law. Nowhere does Jesus command us to memorize the Bible but he did command us to obey him and to obey God in keeping His commandments.

To believe our teachers when they say "the Bible is to be rejected as truth" is obeying men and their traditions.

You said:If you agree that this Bible is indeed not as it was when it was revealed to Isa Alaih-as-Salam, then please tell me how you can tell which verses are corrupt? Is not every single verse the n in doubt?

In a nutshell, it is the Spirit of Allah that tells us which verses are corrupt.

1John 5:7 For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one. (NKJV)

This verse has been added in the ancient greek manuscripts. With a little research of your own, you can find the locality of the manuscripts and purchase a plan ticket and visit the museum where it is held and you will see for yourself the different colored ink added. Men have attempted to corrupt the text and in some limited way, they did. But it changes nothing in God`s plan.

Those who are convicted by truth will not blindly believe what men speak if it cannot be verified by Holy Writ.

David