Why does the west claim that the

[sameer]

Haven't gotten past this thread yet.

This is taken from another thread..folowing up on the queeestion .. if we thought jews who were living in palestine b4 the state if israel should pack up and go also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo View Original
I'm talking about the Jews that have been living there the whole time. Since the Roman empire. When the Ottomans came all the Jews didn't up and leave. There's a poster here that lives in Israel that can trace his roots back to those times. What about him should he leave too? As for all muslims being from Mecca and Medina all I got to say is where did Islam first came on the scene? Wasn't it Muhammed that brought people to Islam?

so by ure logic...all chritians should go back to "israel" too? where did christianity come from? not from that area too? y dont u go back there?

No the jews living there shoudlnt have to leave...but as u said it....all the jews didint up and leave....meaing that they were lving there all the time and i might add...they recieved protection by the muslims from crusading chritians throughtout the centuries. So if the jews were living there all the time.... y form a fake state of israel to the detrement of the palestines?
Isnt it a jewish belief that a messiah would return and rebuild the temple on the mount and then set up a state of israel?
Are u that messiah by chance?

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Show me where.

Im gunna have to find it myself cuz i heard it on the news...and they were "orthodox jews" who mentioned this.

 

[sameer]

You do realize this is a very small group that is consider to be out of touch with most Jews. That they don't even represent 1% of the Jewish population

u asked where in the torah spoke about establishing the state of israel only when the messiah comes.... i believe that in my post it had the verse quoted there.

 

[Geronimo]

u asked where in the torah spoke about establishing the state of israel only when the messiah comes.... i believe that in my post it had the verse quoted there.

They said it shouldn't use human force they didn't, they bought land and was then granted a state by the UN. Show me where it says Israel should not exist.

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

You do realize this is a very small group that is consider to be out of touch with most Jews. That they don't even represent 1% of the Jewish population

theyre out of touch becuz theyre stating the truth? Of course everyone is gunna denounce them becuz they brought up a fact..!!!!! >.<

 

[Geronimo]

Im gunna have to find it myself cuz i heard it on the news...and they were "orthodox jews" who mentioned this.

You must have missed this but I'll bold it for you:

Mainstream Orthodox Jewish communities, including some who oppose Zionism, have denounced Neturei Karta's activities; according to The Guardian, "[e]ven among Charedi, or ultra-Orthodox circles, the Neturei Karta are regarded as a wild fringe".

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

nope i read it lol..damn this thread is gettin all over the place..

 

[Geronimo]

This is taken from another thread..folowing up on the queeestion .. if we thought jews who were living in palestine b4 the state if israel should pack up and go also.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Geronimo View Original
I'm talking about the Jews that have been living there the whole time. Since the Roman empire. When the Ottomans came all the Jews didn't up and leave. There's a poster here that lives in Israel that can trace his roots back to those times. What about him should he leave too? As for all muslims being from Mecca and Medina all I got to say is where did Islam first came on the scene? Wasn't it Muhammed that brought people to Islam?

so by ure logic...all chritians should go back to "israel" too? where did christianity come from? not from that area too? y dont u go back there?

No the jews living there shoudlnt have to leave...but as u said it....all the jews didint up and leave....meaing that they were lving there all the time and i might add...they recieved protection by the muslims from crusading chritians throughtout the centuries. So if the jews were living there all the time.... y form a fake state of israel to the detrement of the palestines?
Isnt it a jewish belief that a messiah would return and rebuild the temple on the mount and then set up a state of israel?
Are u that messiah by chance?

I'll address this in the appropriate thread

 

[Geronimo]

You bolded the wrong part:
teaches that Jews shall not use human force to bring about the establishment of a Jewish state.

Where does it say it is not to exist at all? It just says human force cannot be used to extablish it.

 

[SirZubair]

I am not going to get into the political side of things here.

I will make my statements as clear as i can, so that insha'allah there will be no misunderstandings.

The jews that ORIGINALLY took over the land are All dead,or Dying.

The ones who are still there are the ones who were born there.

So as far as i can see,i do not see a reason why they should leave the land. that is Their MOTHERLAND.

BUT,having said that,..

..i don't see a reason why they can't share the land with their 'neighbours' :?

First thing both sides has to stop doing is,..they have to stop breeding hate in the hearts of their children. But neither side is willing to do that. The Palestinians are being as bad as the israelies.

Having said all that, .. muslims and jews have lived in peace and harmony in the past. They can live in peace and harmony even today.

It all comes down to "WILL",..is either side willing to live in peace with the other side?

No.

Let the death and destruction continue.

Eye for an eye and the world goes blind.

*Sigh*



-Zubair

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

Your right...so true

 

[Geronimo]

I am not going to get into the political side of things here.

I will make my statements as clear as i can, so that insha'allah there will be no misunderstandings.

The jews that ORIGINALLY took over the land are All dead,or Dying.

The ones who are still there are the ones who were born there.

So as far as i can see,i do not see a reason why they should leave the land. that is Their MOTHERLAND.

BUT,having said that,..

..i don't see a reason why they can't share the land with their 'neighbours' :?

First thing both sides has to stop doing is,..they have to stop breeding hate in the hearts of their children. But neither side is willing to do that. The Palestinians are being as bad as the israelies.

Having said all that, .. muslims and jews have lived in peace and harmony in the past. They can live in peace and harmony even today.

It all comes down to "WILL",..is either side willing to live in peace with the other side?

No.

Let the death and destruction continue.

Eye for an eye and the world goes blind.

*Sigh*



-Zubair

I agree they should live in peace and I believe Olmert was working toward that. He was elected under the banner of giving back the West Bank and half of Jersualem. All HAMAS had to do was reject violence and recognize Israel.

 

[sameer]

You bolded the wrong part:
teaches that Jews shall not use human force to bring about the establishment of a Jewish state.

Where does it say it is not to exist at all? It just says human force cannot be used to extablish it.

ok main word..human...
is it not humans created it?
wheres the messiah? dosent it say that it shall not use human force b4 to establish it b4 the coming of the messiah? therefore it shoudltn be establsihed b4 the coming of the messiah.

 

[sameer]

I agree they should live in peace and I believe Olmert was working toward that. He was elected under the banner of giving back the West Bank and half of Jersualem. All HAMAS had to do was reject violence and recognize Israel.

Was jerusalem part of the original israel as declared by the UN or who ever in 1947?

 

[Keltoi]

What right does the non-existant state of Palestine have to exist? Perhaps we should be thinking about peace, and the only way to peace is for both states to exist.

 

[sameer]

What right does the non-existant state of Palestine have to exist? Perhaps we should be thinking about peace, and the only way to peace is for both states to exist.

beacuse they were currently living there for hundreds of years As also were some jews, but how come they did not establish a paletinian State?

 

[Keltoi]

beacuse they were currently living there for hundreds of years As also were some jews, but how come they did not establish a paletinian State?

If they want a Palestinian state then they should recognize Israel and stop the violence. They would already have a state by now if that was the case.

 

[sameer]

If they want a Palestinian state then they should recognize Israel and stop the violence. They would already have a state by now if that was the case.

y dont u suggest that they stick to the lands giving to them by the UN in 1947? and return the rest of lands taken from the palestinians , egyptiians , lebanon etc.? Y dont they stict to their state? in stead of siezing new lands and extending their boundaries?

 

[Keltoi]

y dont u suggest that they stick to the lands giving to them by the UN in 1947? and return the rest of lands taken from the palestinians , egyptiians , lebanon etc.? Y dont they stict to their state? in stead of siezing new lands and extending their boundaries?

That land was taken in a war against Israel by a coalition of Arab states. Perhaps that will be a lesson for them the next time they consider such an act.

 

[sameer]

That land was taken in a war against Israel by a coalition of Arab states. Perhaps that will be a lesson for them the next time they consider such an act.

what about incursions after the war?