Why don't Muslims believe in the Trinity?
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PRISONERofJOY12
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Why did Jesus eat drink etc while he was here on earth?
Rabi'ya:rose:
that isn't a very good question we all know he was still very much human
*Hana*
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Salam Alaikum and peace PrisonerofJoy:
I have just spent the past 30 minutes or so reading over this thread and I would like to offer this for you to think about:
At one point you tried to describe the trinity as 1 person being a father, brother, son, etc. This type of logic won't work. When I am with my son, I am a mom, with my sister I am a sister, with my mom I am a daughter. However, my knowledge doesn't change. Meaning the knowledge I have as a mom, doesn't change when I take on the role of daughter, etc. All my knowledge remains completely intact. That same logic cannot be applied to Jesus, pbuh. If Jesus, pbuh, were part of a trinity and therefore God, He would have knowledge of all things....just as God does. But, he didn't have that luxury. Mark 13:31-32 “Heaven and the earth shall pass away but my word shall not pass away, but of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in the heaven nor the Son but the Father.” One of the attributes of God is omniscience, knowledge of all things. So, his denial of knowledge of the Day of Judgement is also a denial of divinity, for one who does not know the time of the final hour cannot possibly be God.
Your analogy of ice, water and steam doesn't work either. Once steam evaporates, it's gone. The 3 cannot be put back together. Therefore, they are not 3 in 1.
If you take His miracles as proof He is divine, then you must also assume that others who performed the same miracles are also divine. You can't use this logic and attritute divinity to one and not the others. Let me give you some examples: Jesus fed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fish. Elisha fed 100 people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (II Kings 4:44); Jesus healed lepers. Elisha cured Naaman the leper (II Kings 5:14); Jesus caused the blind to see. Elisha caused the blind to see (II Kings 6:17&20); Jesus raised the dead. Elijah did the same (I Kings 17:22). So did Elisha (II Kings 4:34). Even Elisha’s bones could restore the dead (II Kings 13:21); Jesus walked on water. Moses and his people crossed the dead sea (Exodus 14:22).
There are also texts in the New Testament which confirm that Jesus did not act on his own. Jesus is quoted in John 5:30, as saying: “I can of mine own self do nothing...” and in Luke 11:20, as saying, “But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the Kingdom of God is come upon you.” In Acts 2:22, Paul writes: “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know...”
I think this post is long enough, but you should also ask yourself, why God, who is just and all merciful, would allow an innocent man to suffer such horrific atrocities and torture to take away sins, when He has the power to do that on His own. He doesn't need a middle man to have the power to forgive. Does this really seem just to you?
Anyway, I hope this gives you something more to think about.
Take care and wasalam,
Hana
I have just spent the past 30 minutes or so reading over this thread and I would like to offer this for you to think about:
At one point you tried to describe the trinity as 1 person being a father, brother, son, etc. This type of logic won't work. When I am with my son, I am a mom, with my sister I am a sister, with my mom I am a daughter. However, my knowledge doesn't change. Meaning the knowledge I have as a mom, doesn't change when I take on the role of daughter, etc. All my knowledge remains completely intact. That same logic cannot be applied to Jesus, pbuh. If Jesus, pbuh, were part of a trinity and therefore God, He would have knowledge of all things....just as God does. But, he didn't have that luxury. Mark 13:31-32 “Heaven and the earth shall pass away but my word shall not pass away, but of that day or hour no man knoweth, neither the angels in the heaven nor the Son but the Father.” One of the attributes of God is omniscience, knowledge of all things. So, his denial of knowledge of the Day of Judgement is also a denial of divinity, for one who does not know the time of the final hour cannot possibly be God.
Your analogy of ice, water and steam doesn't work either. Once steam evaporates, it's gone. The 3 cannot be put back together. Therefore, they are not 3 in 1.
If you take His miracles as proof He is divine, then you must also assume that others who performed the same miracles are also divine. You can't use this logic and attritute divinity to one and not the others. Let me give you some examples: Jesus fed 5,000 people with five loaves of bread and two fish. Elisha fed 100 people with twenty barley loaves and a few ears of corn (II Kings 4:44); Jesus healed lepers. Elisha cured Naaman the leper (II Kings 5:14); Jesus caused the blind to see. Elisha caused the blind to see (II Kings 6:17&20); Jesus raised the dead. Elijah did the same (I Kings 17:22). So did Elisha (II Kings 4:34). Even Elisha’s bones could restore the dead (II Kings 13:21); Jesus walked on water. Moses and his people crossed the dead sea (Exodus 14:22).
There are also texts in the New Testament which confirm that Jesus did not act on his own. Jesus is quoted in John 5:30, as saying: “I can of mine own self do nothing...” and in Luke 11:20, as saying, “But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the Kingdom of God is come upon you.” In Acts 2:22, Paul writes: “Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know...”
I think this post is long enough, but you should also ask yourself, why God, who is just and all merciful, would allow an innocent man to suffer such horrific atrocities and torture to take away sins, when He has the power to do that on His own. He doesn't need a middle man to have the power to forgive. Does this really seem just to you?
Anyway, I hope this gives you something more to think about.
Take care and wasalam,
Hana
Hana
PRISONERofJOY12
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luke 21:29 Look at the fig tree. The coming of spring is announced by the greening of the trees ( cf. Matthew 24:32-35;Mark 11:13 and note; 13:28-31). in a similar way, one can anticipate the coming of the kingdom when its signs are seen. But " kingdom" is used in different ways ( see note on 4:43 ). The reference in v.31 is to the future kingdom.
Mark 11:13 note-- not the season for figs. fig trees around jerusalem normally begin to get leaves in march or april but do not produce figs until their leaves are all out in june. This tree was an exception in that it was already, at passover time, full of leaves.
in Luke 21:32
This generation. if reference here is to the destruction of the Jerusalem that occurred about 40 years after Jesus spoke these words, "generetion" is used in its ordinary sence of a normal life span. "All thse things" would then have been fulfilled in the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem. on the other hand, if reference here is to the second coming of Christ, "generation" might refer to a future generation alive at the beginning of "these things." It does not mean that jesus had a mistaken notion he was going to return immediately
Mark 11:13 note-- not the season for figs. fig trees around jerusalem normally begin to get leaves in march or april but do not produce figs until their leaves are all out in june. This tree was an exception in that it was already, at passover time, full of leaves.
in Luke 21:32
This generation. if reference here is to the destruction of the Jerusalem that occurred about 40 years after Jesus spoke these words, "generetion" is used in its ordinary sence of a normal life span. "All thse things" would then have been fulfilled in the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem. on the other hand, if reference here is to the second coming of Christ, "generation" might refer to a future generation alive at the beginning of "these things." It does not mean that jesus had a mistaken notion he was going to return immediately
akulion
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ok this may seem very "insulting " to you but believe me it is not meant to be insulting at all! Wallahi!
Now Hindus often tell me that they consider the feaces (popo and pepe) of their Animal Gods to be holy.
Would you consider the excrements of Jesus to be holy as well since EVERYTHING about him was holy according to your faith?
Now Hindus often tell me that they consider the feaces (popo and pepe) of their Animal Gods to be holy.
Would you consider the excrements of Jesus to be holy as well since EVERYTHING about him was holy according to your faith?
Rabi'ya
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If Jesus is God and Jesus is human then does that mean God is human(astaghfirullah)???
You see, these things simply dont add up, if you cant understand what it is that you are believing then why believe it? this is a basic of your faith adn you cannot understand it enought o explain it simply.
Rabi'ya:rose:
You see, these things simply dont add up, if you cant understand what it is that you are believing then why believe it? this is a basic of your faith adn you cannot understand it enought o explain it simply.
Rabi'ya:rose:
akulion
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Also I would like to know how can you say all of Bible is the Truth when it is talking about Unicorns...can you show me a unicorn or prove they exist?
The only explanation I got of this yet was from a guy who said, A Unicorn is basically a Horse with a Horn
...uumm ok but where are they?
additionally why do christians eat pork when it is forbidden in the scriptures?
The only explanation I got of this yet was from a guy who said, A Unicorn is basically a Horse with a Horn
...uumm ok but where are they?
additionally why do christians eat pork when it is forbidden in the scriptures?
*Hana*
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Salam Alaikum and Peace:
PrisonerofJoy, no disrespect, but I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying figs are foretelling the day of judgement? See, the problem is, God, in the bible said He is not the author of confusion. So, if you take text and try to turn it to suit a purpose, it won't work. The apples on my trees came very early this year....but I don't think that was a sign of the day of Judgement.
Maybe that's not what you meant?
Maybe you can elaborate a bit more.
Wasalam,
Hana
PrisonerofJoy, no disrespect, but I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying figs are foretelling the day of judgement? See, the problem is, God, in the bible said He is not the author of confusion. So, if you take text and try to turn it to suit a purpose, it won't work. The apples on my trees came very early this year....but I don't think that was a sign of the day of Judgement.
Maybe that's not what you meant?
Maybe you can elaborate a bit more. Wasalam,
Hana
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Salam Alaikum and Peace:
PrisonerofJoy, no disrespect, but I'm not exactly sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying figs are foretelling the day of judgement? See, the problem is, God, in the bible said He is not the author of confusion. So, if you take text and try to turn it to suit a purpose, it won't work. The apples on my trees came very early this year....but I don't think that was a sign of the day of Judgement.
Maybe that's not what you meant?
Wasalam,
Hana
no I am saying that you know when the grass of the ground or the trees will sprout its leaves by the signs.. that spring is coming
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Greetings,
How can the core of your religion be this confusing, when you complain that Islam is too difficult? In Islam, the very basic principle about God is so easy that even a child can explain to an adult within half a minute, if not less: God is One! He has no partner; no son; none that are like Him. The Qur'an enforces this monotheistic belief again and again, from the very opening chapter. There is no contradiction, nor bending over backward trying to explain the most fundamental belief underpinning the whole religion.
Which notes are these that explain the contradictions?
Peace.
P.S. The posts regarding the Bible and the Qur'an have been moved to the respective thread; please try to stay on topic!
(emphasis added)
How can the core of your religion be this confusing, when you complain that Islam is too difficult? In Islam, the very basic principle about God is so easy that even a child can explain to an adult within half a minute, if not less: God is One! He has no partner; no son; none that are like Him. The Qur'an enforces this monotheistic belief again and again, from the very opening chapter. There is no contradiction, nor bending over backward trying to explain the most fundamental belief underpinning the whole religion.
(emphasis added)
Which notes are these that explain the contradictions?
You admit that adding and taking away is wrong, yet why do we find errors then? Surely the Bible should have been perfect like the Qur'an if it were the Words of God?
And here you admit there have been changes, thus how can you adhere to a book that has been changed; despite the fact that it orders not to be?
Peace.
P.S. The posts regarding the Bible and the Qur'an have been moved to the respective thread; please try to stay on topic!
PRISONERofJOY12
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Jesus abolished the the OLD LAW.... HENCE OLD TESTAMENT.. and made a new law
your gur an is not perfect... I am sorry who ever told you that is very much wrong...excuse me while I check for a phrophecy .... ?
it says that natural disasters will be like birth pains
meaning the natural disasters will come more often and will steadily get worse and worse
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akulion
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Oh so if the Bible is obselete then why use it now?
Additionally that would mean that Old Tastament can no longer be Quoted for any sorts of evidence yea?
Plus what about the Unicorns? Did they ever exist?
Additionally that would mean that Old Tastament can no longer be Quoted for any sorts of evidence yea?
Plus what about the Unicorns? Did they ever exist?
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*Hana*
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Salam Alaikum, and Peace:
Whoa, Jesus, pbuh, did not come to abolish the law, He came to fullfill it. What makes you think He came to change it. You are saying something completely opposite to the bible here.
Paul changed it, not Jesus, pbuh.
And, I forgot to mention you also said the trinity is confusing. Your entire salvation is based on something you can't explain and Jesus, pbuh, never taught. As I mentioned before, God said He was not the author of confusion. Does it make sense that he would make something as serious as your salvation totally confusing without any possibility of logical explanation?
Wasalam
Hana
Whoa, Jesus, pbuh, did not come to abolish the law, He came to fullfill it. What makes you think He came to change it. You are saying something completely opposite to the bible here.
Paul changed it, not Jesus, pbuh.
And, I forgot to mention you also said the trinity is confusing. Your entire salvation is based on something you can't explain and Jesus, pbuh, never taught. As I mentioned before, God said He was not the author of confusion. Does it make sense that he would make something as serious as your salvation totally confusing without any possibility of logical explanation?
Wasalam
Hana
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