Why is it that it seems ok to promote the idea of a Muslim conspiracy to rule ?

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^lol - it must've been an inadvertent mistake on your part, why not pm the mod?

Yea the only mistake was that since I was talking about Western countries, I made the mistake of referring to the majority population there i.e. white. Oops.

I do not want to make this thread on races, but to clarify, some classical Islamic scholars also divided Muslim population into two: Arabs and Ajams. Some also gave the ruling that non-Arab Muslim men were not allowed to marry Arab women. This was done under the title of Kafaah/Lineage.
The ruling relevant to non-Arabs is as follows: ‘An Ajmi (non-Arab) cannot be a match for a woman of Arab descent, no matter that he be an Aalim (religious scholar) or even a Sultan (ruling authority). (Raddul Muhtar p.209 v.4)


To end it off, white Muslim brothers and sisters if you love Allah, then I also love you. Signing off.
 
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The ruling relevant to non-Arabs is as follows: ‘An Ajmi (non-Arab) cannot be a match for a woman of Arab descent, no matter that he be an Aalim (religious scholar) or even a Sultan (ruling authority). (Raddul Muhtar p.209 v.4)

whoever said that should have referred to the marriage of the black abyssinian slave bilal (ra) to an arab lady,
the Prophet was behind the marriage and even advised the parents.

from the prophet (pbuh)'s farewell speech
....O People, listen to me in earnest, worship God, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.
All mankind is from Adam and Eve,
an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor doas a non-Arab have any superiority over an Arab;
also a white has no superiority over black nor does a black have any superiority over white except by piety and good action.
Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood.
Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.....

let's come back to topic,
 
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Isnt that racist against the "Western" more evolved nations? We know that it is generally assumed that these Western nations have Caucasians as the majority (majority in policy making as well).

You are assuming too much from what I actually said, bro.
 
I find it hilarious (not to mention the obvious irony) when a secular west claiming there's a muslim conspiracy to rule the world, when the fact is that western troops are in muslim lands, and leaders of western countries are shoving secular western values on everyone on the planet

Agreed. It isn't much of a secret, even to us westerners, that the US is engaging in imperialism and that these "wars" have little to nothing to do with "keeping America safe". It is the military industrial complex at play.
 
^^ Yea so I think just like that my comment was twisted and interpreted as racist.

Here is what you wrote:

He probably slept around, she probably slept around, You cannot really know that for white people.

You now want to qualify this by saying "Kufar white", as if that is any less bigotted.

Its about equal to this:

He's probably a terrorist, she's probably a terrorist, You cannot really know that for muslims.
 
It is the military industrial complex at play.

Ah, the wonders of the English language. Such an innocent word for such a horrific activity. I am, of course, assuming that you are not downplaying the gravity of the issue.
 
Believe it or not, there are those of us in the west who are just as disgusted and dismayed at the actions of the (primarily) US military overseas. I am personally ashamed of Canada's involvement in Afghanistan and am glad we pulled out. I'm with Ron Paul on this particular issue. We should focus our monies on improving our own societies and let the middle east take care of itself, removing all foreign aid from the region (including Israel!) and be done with it. But there are powerful forces at play in the (primarily) US that won't let that happen. Ron Paul was actually excluded from a recent debate because he won't tow the line for Israel.
 
Here is what you wrote:



You now want to qualify this by saying "Kufar white", as if that is any less bigotted.

Its about equal to this: Its about equal to this:

He's probably a terrorist, she's probably a terrorist, You cannot really know that for muslims.

Dont majority of white kufaar, who have never academically studied Islam or history, already think that? I mean banning niqab cuz of being scared about what is the woman hiding under that dress says a lot about what your lot thinks in the first place. This lot did the same thing with Aboriginals: "educated them for their betterment."

So are you saying that pre-marital sex and such promiscuity is not common among your people? I think you have not been to night clubs on Friday nights then.

The fact that night club owners and porn/adult shop owners are protected by law to sell their filth, and the majority of your nation agrees with their rights, does not that reflect on the promiscuous nature of your peoples? Does not the fact that your people cannot communicate with a niqabi woman without seeing her face, her eyes, her lips, her facial expressions, her body, say a lot about the inherent promiscuity of your peoples? On one hand your people make those claims, yet your people keep on developing things such as msn, facebook etc where no facial expressions are required yet communication takes place flawlessly. Who is being a hypocrite? Cut the political correctness crap.

I think there was not a single day when my preceptor in family med was not prescribing/guiding teenagers out of grade 9/10 on how to use birth control pills, condoms and of course abortions. And of course the number we treated for STis is a totally different ball game.
 
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Dont majority of white kufaar, who have never academically studied Islam or history, already think that?

No. I actually don't personally in my real life know a single "white kufaar" who thinks that, nor black kufaar nor asian or indian kufaar who thinks that. I don't even personally know any conservatives who think that, not even my fundamentalist christian friends I but heads with (who incidentally happen to be white kufaar possibly more chaste than you). If I did hear somebody actually say the above quote I would call them out on their bigoted statement just as I have you.

Just because you want to be a bigot and paint entire races with broad brushes doesn't mean we all do, and from my muslim friends have told me Islam doesn't teach you to do that either.
 
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To the mods: Why is his rubbish tolerated while other (less ignorant and more "unislamic") posts are cleaned up immediately?

He received infractions, others that you may have in mind never received any.
And I thought his post was deleted?


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I deleted his racist remark and subsequent references to it.
 
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And with that, it would be good if we could all return to the topic of the first post of this thread, about why it is apparently acceptable to promote the idea that there is a Muslim conspiracy to rule the world.
 
Now that's a very interesting observation. When I think about it, that seems true in my Christian faith as well. I've met a very few Muslims, and quite a few Christians, and people of other faiths, in real life, conversing face to face. None that I can think of seemed as unreasonable or mean-spirited as some whom I've encountered on the internet. And I might extend that idea to the news media as well -- I don't understand how some "Christians" I've read about in the news could act so badly, as if they had no conscience at all. Some of their actions go against any and all teachings I've ever received, first-hand, from people of my faith -- and the same goes for most ordinary discussions I've had with other Christians (of course I've met a few Christians who will never date my daughters, but I wouldn't describe them as evil.)

One reason I'm reading this forum, to learn more about Islam, is that two of the finest people my husband and I have ever known were Muslims (and that says a lot when you consider that I've met, face to face, maybe a total of five Muslims). When my husband was involved in a movement against injustice in our region, and things got hard, and everyone started to scatter, his Muslim friend stood, calmly, graciously, but firmly, without fear or hesitation -- his extraordinary courage and noble demeanor in the face of trouble inspired my husband, along with a few others, to stay and stand beside him.

Do you think there is a Muslim equivalent of the ugly "media Christians" we see on the news every day? Do we (sincere people of any faith) behave differently, better, when we come to know each other face to face? rebecca
Dear Rebecca. Sorry for late reply.

Extremists are exist in every religion. Islam also has 'its own' extremist who call themselves "Jihadist" but kill innocent people and commit terror that actually forbidden in Islam.

Of course, not all Muslims are terrorists, but unfortunately many non-Muslims have bad image on Muslims as terrorists. This make me sad.

I know, there are extreme Christians who hate Islam/Muslims, but I cannot say all Christians hate Islam/Muslims. There are many Protestant Christians in my mommy big family, and I have many Christian (protestant) and Catholic friends. My relationship with them is very good, Alhamdulillah, and they always respect to Islam/Muslim. Also, when I was kid I studied in Catholic elementary school which all of my teachers are nuns. They taught and treated me very well.

I always remind people in my Muslim community, not all Christians hate Islam/Muslims. There are many good Christians who have great religious tolerance.

I do not expect anything from Christian people. But I am very happy if there are Christians who can tell other Christians, not all Muslims are terrorists, there are many Muslims who have great religious tolerance.

:)
 
the two towers on 9/11 were bad enough, building 7 was worse.

and it's not that they believe a "muslim conspiracy" to rule, the books of Islam and prophecies are available to all - therefore ruling out the word "conspiracy",
rather it's their fear that ultimately the people of the world will choose Islam that keeps them moving:


“ There are people who control spacious territories teeming with manifest and hidden resources.
They dominate the intersections of world routes.
Their lands were the cradles of human civilizations and religions.
These people have one faith, one language, one history and the same aspirations. No natural barriers can isolate these people from one another
... if, per chance, this nation were to be unified into one state, it would then take the fate of the world into its hands and would separate Europe from the rest of the world.
Taking these considerations seriously, a foreign body
should be planted in the heart of this nation to prevent the convergence of its wings in such a way
that it could exhaust its powers in never-ending wars. It could also serve as a springboard for the West to gain its coveted objects.”

Sir Campbell Bannerman, [Prime Minister of Britain (1905-08)]

not long afterwards, the zionist movement began to move with the help of britain.



Lord Zetland [March 24, 1940, British Secretary of State for the colonial India]
“[T]he call of Islam is one which transcends the bounds of country. It may have lost some force as a result of the abolition of Caliphate by Mustafa Kamal Pasha, but it still has a very considerable appeal as witness for example Jinnah’s insistence on our giving undertaking that Indian troops should never be employed against any Muslim state, and the solicitude which he has constantly expressed for the Arabs of Palestine.”



US Think Tanks
In December 2004, A report by the National Intelligence Council (NIC) state a possible scenario that by 2020 a “New Caliphate" would have been established.
This 123-page report titled "Mapping the Global Future" was aimed to prepare the next Bush administration for future challenges,
and was presented to US President, members of Congress, cabinet members and key officials involved in policymaking.
According to CSIS (Center for Strategic and International Studies), Washington based think tank, this report was not a prediction, but a case exercise/study which involves observing the various events taking place in the world.
These events are then connected in such a way that there might be a possibility of forming of a Caliphate state.
Given that such a state may be established, then it is to be decided from today as to what needs to be done to prevent it, if it needs to be prevented.
Moreover there are two organizations which did such a study, one is the CIA and the other is Shell Oil Company.


 
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Do I believe that the Jews conrol the World the answer is no because there are evil people in all races religions and nations.
 
I don't think there is a Muslim conspiracy to take over the world. A "conspiracy" would imply its kept secret. However, it is stated openly by many Muslims that the world is divided into the House of Islam, which are areas ruled by Islamic law and the House of War, which are areas not ruled by Islamic law. These countries will be offered the possibility to accept Islam and, if they do not, Muslims will be justified (or are they obliged to, that's the part I am not sure about) to invade them and subject them to Islamic law. Is this a correct understanding of this House of Islam/House of War dichotomy? It is the one I have seen spoke of most often, but I would be interested if someone could rebuke it for me (because living in a non Islamic country, I don't fancy it being invaded and my being forced to conform to Islamic laws).
 
I don't think there is a Muslim conspiracy to take over the world. A "conspiracy" would imply its kept secret. However, it is stated openly by many Muslims that the world is divided into the House of Islam, which are areas ruled by Islamic law and the House of War, which are areas not ruled by Islamic law. These countries will be offered the possibility to accept Islam and, if they do not, Muslims will be justified (or are they obliged to, that's the part I am not sure about) to invade them and subject them to Islamic law. Is this a correct understanding of this House of Islam/House of War dichotomy? It is the one I have seen spoke of most often, but I would be interested if someone could rebuke it for me (because living in a non Islamic country, I don't fancy it being invaded and my being forced to conform to Islamic laws).

Can you please tell us the sources of this house of Islam and House of war dichotomy?
I don't think I can find it in Qur'an and Ahadeeth.
 
However, it is stated openly by many Muslims that the world is divided into the House of Islam, which are areas ruled by Islamic law and the House of War, which are areas not ruled by Islamic law. These countries will be offered the possibility to accept Islam and, if they do not, Muslims will be justified (or are they obliged to, that's the part I am not sure about) to invade them and subject them to Islamic law. Is this a correct understanding of this House of Islam/House of War dichotomy?

Muslims did not just take over countries to rule over them as kings and rip their resources, the status quo was that whoever gained enough power just ennexed other lands to their kingdom and demanded a permanent tax - regardless of who they were.
the Muslim rulers would send epistles to the kings of other lands
1. inviting them to Islam
2. giving them the option to pay the tax to them instead of it stopping at the current occupying king - whether from Rome or Persia or anywhere else - and allowing them to tell people about Islam.
3. war

if they accepted the first two the Muslim Caliphate would be duty bound to protect them from any external threat.
anyone who accepted Islam was no longer required to pay (proving that they didn't have their own "lordship" and financial gain in mind).
anyone who was weak or poor or unable to pay was exempt and would even receive benefits

History has recorded many examples of Muslims fulfilling their sacred promise towards the dhimmis. The companion of Prophet Muhammad, Abu Ubayda al-Jarrah, was the leader of the army that conquered Syria. He made agreement with its people to pay the jizya.Realizing the faithful loyalty of the Muslims, the Syrian people of the covenant resisted Muslim enemies and aided the Muslims against them. The residents of each town would send some of their people to spy against the Byzantines, who conveyed the news of the gathering of Byzantine army to Abu Ubayda’s commanders. Finally, when the Muslims feared they would not be able to guarantee their protectect ,Abu Ubayda wrote to his commanders to return all the money they had collected as jizya with the following message for the Syrians:‘We are returning your money to you because news has reached us of the awaiting armies. The condition of our agreement is that we protect you, and we are unable to do so, therefore, we are returning what we have taken from you. If God grants us victory, we will stand by out agreement.’When his commanders returned the money and conveyed his message, the Syrian response was:‘May God bring you back safely to us. May He grant you victory. If the Byzantines had been in your place, they would not have returned anything, they would have taken everything we own and left us with nothing.’The Muslims were victorious in the battle. When people of other towns saw how their allies were defeated, they sought to negotiate a truce with the Muslims. Abu Ubayda entered into a truce with all of them with all the rights he had extended in the first treaties. They also requested that the Byzantines hiding among them be given safe passage back home, with their families and possessions, without any harm, which Abu Ubayda agreed to.Then the Syrians sent the jizya and opened their cities to welcome Muslims. On the way back home, Abu Ubayda was met by the representatives of townspeople and villagers requesting him to extend the treaty to them as well, to which he happily complied.
Umar ibn al-Khattab the second caliph of Islam, once passed by a old, blind man begging in front of a house. Umar asked him which religious community he belonged to. The man said he was Jewish. Umar then asked him, ‘What has brought you to this?’ The old man said, ‘Do not ask me; ask …poverty, and old age.’ Umar took the man to his own home, helped him from his personal money, and then ordered the head of the treasury, ‘You must look after this man and others like him. We have not treated him fairly. He should not have spent the best years of his life among us to find misery in his old age.’ Umar also relieved him and others in his situation of paying the jizya.Another example is found in Khalid ibn al-Walid’s letter to the people of the Iraqi city of Hira. It contains the terms of truce he offered them:‘If God gives us victory, the people of the covenant will be protected. They have rights promised to them by God. It is the strictest covenant God has made incumbent on any of His prophets. They are also held by the duties that it places upon them and must not violate it. If they are conquered, they will live comfortably with everything due to them. I am commanded to exempt from jizya the elderly who cannot work, the disabled, or the poor who receive charity from their own community. The treasury will provide for them and their dependants as long as they live in Muslim lands or in the communities of Muslim emigrants. If they move outside of Muslim lands, neither they nor their dependants shall be entitled to any benefits.’




so you see it was not as simplistic as the orientalists would have you see it
 
Because some people are unusually paranoid about muslims. Then again if they were trying to take over the world, and successfully doing it, that would be very frightening indeed. But it's not, the anti muslim bigots ironically give muslims far far too much credit.
 
Well played here SorayaCali. You necromanced one of the many threads in which muslims said incredibly racist and offensive things JUST before you got banned for doing something similar (I presume after reading the ww3 thread). Seriously though, why play those games? This is their house and we are guests. They do have a few petulant children in the house who like to attack us, but we need to ignore them to conversation can with the others. Don't become a petulant child yourself. You'll see the exact same thing on atheist boards, christian boards, conservative boards, and liberal boards. Its the minority view person that has to have the thicker skin.
 
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