@ Psygoscelis... what is your view on Muslims and Islam? I'd like to know. You seem to be having a reasonable debate here and I haven't had the chance to converse with you much, so please indulge.
I'm engaged to a liberal muslim from Singapore and have some colleagues who are more conservative muslims. I have little issue with the religion as a whole. I do not and will likely never subscribe to it myself though as I do not believe that Gods (or any other supernatural things) exist. I came to this forum along with Snakelegs way back, both of us seeing the islamophobia following 9/11 and looking to dispel myths propogated by hateful evangelical christians on Paltalk (who are still there). Skavau came from there as well.
I learned through here, through my co-workers and through my fiance now that a lot of the things people say about Islam and muslims are false. I also learned that some are true. Mostly though I learned that Islam isn't as monolithic as I'd thought it was. You have your crazy hateful and violent fundamentalists and fuzzy warm pacifist liberals just like the Christians do.
Lately I've given up on trying to converse on here, following the posts in which some were wishing death on non-muslims and others admitted they were just here to attack non-muslims for no reason other than an emotional release. You can see that happening in this thread. We've now got one trying to make it appear that non-muslims don't care about muslims being killed (in fact implying that we're all out there killing you - we're not obviously) and another saying its a pitty that more people aren't hunting down and killing people who disagree with or oppose Islam, or who insult your prophet.
You yourself sound like somebody who we could engage in a good civil discussion, but it would be hard with the sideshow of clowns. We recently had another thread locked in which I and others answered some questions about atheists. No surprise, it devolved into people asking questions with no interest in reading answers (and ignoring the answers) and looking to score points instead of discuss anything, and others just there to attack.
For a civil discussion with atheists about Islam I'd really have to point you towards another board. Freeratio.org would be a good choice, but you'd be in the vast minority there, as it is mostly atheists. Most there will be civil. Avoid Dawkins' board, which is more like here but with the roles reversed.
I think it is only fair to do the same so I will say this. I believe that atheists have already come part way to saying the full shahada (declaration of faith in ONE GOD) because you believe there is no God.
Our Shahada: "There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is his messenger" pbuh.
I have heard this before. Saying we come half way though is only really true semantically. Atheists believe there are no Gods. Getting from there being no such thing as Gods to there being Gods is I think a much bigger jump than getter from there being one God to there being many. You've even got some relgions that seem to bridge that gap (ie, the Christian trinity, 3 Gods in one). I don't believe in Allah any more than I believe in Ganesh or Zeus, or ghosts or ESP, etc. I simply don't find them plausible and see no evidence for them.
worthy of worship Except Allah, because HE is the one true GOD.
I am anti-authoritarian, which is probably one reason why we could never agree on these things. The concept of "worship" doesn't jive with me. I am troubled by many monotheistic abrahamic (christian, jew, muslim) people who seem to conflate obedience for morality. Even if I believed God existed I would need a reason to do as he asks. I would not bow down to a celestial dictator or want to live in a celestial Noth Korea (as Hitchens used to put it).
Euthyphro's dilemma, which goes all the way back to Plato and Socrates, is one good illustration of this issue:
Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God? The former seems to make God a bit redundant but more acceptable to me. The latter is the conflation of "good" and "obedient" I'm speaking of. It renders anything God demands to be "Good", even if that is genocide, murder, sacrificing one's son, etc. I find that potentially dangerous.
I think my least favourite thing about Islam is tied up in this. The concept of "surrendering to God" (or those who you think are speaking for him) seems the ultimate in obedience over morality to me. I don't expect you to agree of course, but that's my vantage point.
On the other hand, I can see a lot of good coming out of Islam, including a very strong sense of community between muslims, a ban on usury, some sensible dietary laws, a command do to charitable works, etc. The recitation of the Quran can also be quite beautiful to listen to if done well and you don't have to be a muslim to enjoy it.
I also find it refreshing that Islam doesn't share into the central tenet of the Christian Faith, which I find very imoral: The idea that an innocent (Jesus) can suffer and die so that I can have MY wrongs absolved.
Anyway, since you asked, there are some of my thoughts.
Now we return this thread back to the circus...
or atheist sensibilities for that matter as the whole world as seen by them seems unequivocally jaded.. 'Wishing death' is a grievous crime.. committing mass exterminations against women and children doesn't get an honorable mention... it is most amusing indeed.. 
