Why is the west the best?

[Woodrow]

Russia is interesting. I believe that The Country Russia, should be considered Western. However the old USSR should not be.

It is really difficult to think of what is meant my Western. There are areas in the geographical west that do not seem to meet the criteria:

Cuba

Bolivia

Panama

Argentina

Greece

Turkey

Vatican City

And probably others

 

[north_malaysian]

Russia is interesting. I believe that The Country Russia, should be considered Western. However the old USSR should not be.

It is really difficult to think of what is meant my Western. There are areas in the geographical west that do not seem to meet the criteria:

Cuba

Bolivia

Panama

Argentina

Greece

Turkey

Vatican City

And probably others

Greece and Vatican City not meeting the "Western" criteria?:uuh:

How about Israel?

 

[north_malaysian]

Well, I would say- no.The main reason is that Russia accepted religion and culture tradition not from Rome but from Byzantium, which makes her rather a part of different civilization- "orthodox".

Erm... how about other Orthodox countries like Greece, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Romania, Moldova, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia and Ukraine?

 

[Woodrow]

Greece and Vatican City not meeting the "Western" criteria?:uuh:

How about Israel?

Vatican City is a theocracy. Although it is the central core of Catholicism, it does not have the same freedoms of Western Countries. It is more like a Christian version of Sharia. There is only Church law and it is not a secular, industrial, nor capitalistic nation. The Western laws of separation of church and state came about to prevent the Vatican from controlling Western Nations.

Greece is a bit odd. It is a combination of ancient and modern. I think there can be legitimate argument for calling it either. I personally view it more as Mid-eastern as the language, laws and economy do differ much from what is seen as Western.

Israel is odd also. Locality wise it is as Mideastern as possible. It seems to enjoy the distinction of receiving aid from the West, yet holding no alliance with any nation except itself. I would say it remains a bit of an out cast from all nations.

 

[The_Prince]

the reason the west is the best is because there are so many cultures and people from all over the world contributing to the western society and makes it what it is, its not white ppl only who have brought the west to where it is now and who continue to make it the dominant force.....

now that begs the Q, why are ppl from all over the world going to the west? very simple, leaders of the west have exploited third world nations by stealing their natural resources, hence they cant get a productive econamy, and they install dictators who will make sure the natural resource flow stays very good for western nations while they the dictars get a good share of the action, which again leads to a cr@p econamy. now when your econamy is cr@p this means the society wont be able to reach its full potential.....

now lets say the west cant sway a leader to become their puppet, then they will simply over-throw him through a coup, i.e. operation ajax....

to sum it up, external western nations cause internal strife and problems in thirld world countries which in turn leads these ppl to turn and go to the west which in turn means the brains and smarties of the third world are contributing their brains and genius ideas to western nations instead of their own respective ideas. its like a bad cycle.

 

[The_Prince]

the reason the west is the best is because there are so many cultures and people from all over the world contributing to the western society and makes it what it is, its not white ppl only who have brought the west to where it is now and who continue to make it the dominant force.....

now that begs the Q, why are ppl from all over the world going to the west? very simple, leaders of the west have exploited third world nations by stealing their natural resources, hence they cant get a productive econamy, and they install dictators who will make sure the natural resource flow stays very good for western nations while they the dictars get a good share of the action, which again leads to a cr@p econamy. now when your econamy is cr@p this means the society wont be able to reach its full potential.....

now lets say the west cant sway a leader to become their puppet, then they will simply over-throw him through a coup, i.e. operation ajax....

to sum it up, external western nations cause internal strife and problems in thirld world countries which in turn leads these ppl to turn and go to the west which in turn means the brains and smarties of the third world are contributing their brains and genius ideas to western nations instead of their own respective countries. its like a bad cycle.

 

[Amadeus85]

Erm... how about other Orthodox countries like Greece, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Serbia, Macedonia, Montenegro, Romania, Moldova, Belarus, Georgia, Armenia and Ukraine?

Well we shouldnt think that there are only two civilizations- West and East. Because what about Kenia,South Africa or Argenita? We have quite few civilizations and orthodox civilization is one of them (Greece,Bulgaria,Serbia etc.) There are those countries which embraced christianity from Byzantium and this fact impacted their culture,lifestyle and traditions.

 

[ricardo_sousa]

Like I have said "the west" this days is an ideology. Lots of countries around the world follow this political, social and economical way of life.

I think that the greatest achievement of the western civilization was the separation between Religion/Government. This way, the "western countries" no longer were tied by "dogmatic views" and they could research new ways of life and domains.

In the Muslim world you have the Turkey example. A Muslin country with no oil that is really making a difference in the world. If Turkey hadn´t clearly separate religion from State, it could have became just like Pakistan or Morocco...

 

[Amadeus85]

Russia is interesting. I believe that The Country Russia, should be considered Western. However the old USSR should not be.

Cuba

Bolivia

Panama

Argentina

Those countries are latnio american countries.I think that latin american civilization can be thought as one of the other civilization circles.

Greece

vide Russia

Turkey

Well, Turkey is interesting, because Turkey is a country which actually tried to leave one civilization cirlce (Islam) and become member of the other (Europe).But we see nowadays that islam is strong religion and it rebirths every part of time and we see it in Turkey nowadays.

Vatican City

It's rather a city or very special type of country.

 

[Bittersteel]

I would cite the Renaissance and the enlightenment and other sorts of revolution for the west's success.Creating empires and colonies i.e. military successes helped also.

In the Muslim world you have the Turkey example. A Muslin country with no oil that is really making a difference in the world. If Turkey hadn´t clearly separate religion from State, it could have became just like Pakistan or Morocco..

what do you mean by like Pakistan or Morocco?Both are becoming increasingly secular from what I am hearing.

 

[Woodrow]

Looking through this further it seems the terms East and West are no longer appropriate guides of delineation of the Nations.

Perhaps the better guides would be:

Industrial Capitalistic--USA, Canada, Australia, Japan, New Zealand, UK, Pakistan, India, Turkey, Iran, Greece, etc

Industrial Non Capitalistic--Dubai, Mexico, Cuba, Chechnya, Ukraine, China,

Agrarian/Natural resource economies--Saudi, Iraq, Argentina, Afghanistan, Kuwait, etc

Independent separatist--Israel, Vatican City etc

Undeveloped-- Somalia, Ethiopia, etc.


Or perhaps the true division is OPEC nations and Non Opec?

OPEC

The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) is a permanent, intergovernmental Organization, created at the Baghdad Conference on September 10–14, 1960, by Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and Venezuela. The five Founding Members were later joined by nine other Members: Qatar (1961); Indonesia (1962); Socialist Peoples Libyan Arab Jamahiriya (1962); United Arab Emirates (1967); Algeria (1969); Nigeria (1971); Ecuador (1973) -- suspended its membership from December 1992-December 2007; Angola (2007); and Gabon (1975–1994)

NON-OPEC

The rest of the World

OPEC seems to be pretty much a dividing criteria:

Source: http://www.opec.org/aboutus/

 

[The_Prince]

Like I have said "the west" this days is an ideology. Lots of countries around the world follow this political, social and economical way of life.

I think that the greatest achievement of the western civilization was the separation between Religion/Government. This way, the "western countries" no longer were tied by "dogmatic views" and they could research new ways of life and domains.

In the Muslim world you have the Turkey example. A Muslin country with no oil that is really making a difference in the world. If Turkey hadn´t clearly separate religion from State, it could have became just like Pakistan or Morocco...

morroco, pakistan, they have nothing do with religous rules, pakistans court is followed by british system, morroco have their own ways....nothing to do with religion....

btw, could you name me any REAL BIG differences and major contributions that Turkey has done for humanity?????? you said turkey is making a real difference to the world, i think you meant that positively, well could you name me one? (other than further destabilizing Iraq, oppressing kurds, banning religous freedom ehem opps these are negative, but still do have an effect on major worldy affairs)

 

[Amadeus85]

Like I have said "the west" this days is an ideology. Lots of countries around the world follow this political, social and economical way of life.

You are right and you are wrong . It's true that some asian or african countries are using western type of economy or goverment but it doesnt make them western(vide Japan or South Africa)

I think that the greatest achievement of the western civilization was the separation between Religion/Government. This way, the "western countries" no longer were tied by "dogmatic views" and they could research new ways of life and domains.

It's one of many achievments. Personally I would add human rights. But it's also important.

In the Muslim world you have the Turkey example. A Muslin country with no oil that is really making a difference in the world. If Turkey hadn´t clearly separate religion from State, it could have became just like Pakistan or Morocco...

Well that's a controversial theory for a muslim. It's hard to say for me actually, I dont have clear opinion about this.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

In my opinion the west is defined by greek-roman-judeochristian roots, secularization and materialism.
It includes european protestant and catholic nations, some protestant colonies(New Zealand, Australia, Canada, USA...even South Africa) and Israel.

 

[wilberhum]

What is really wild about this thread is the total lack of argument against the title.

So regardless of why, it seems that everyone is in agreement on one thing:

the west the best

 

[Keltoi]

I take it the title wasn't a pun on the old Doors song?

Anyway, I think when it gets right down to the point, military dominance is the key to any successful empire or civilization. That military dominance opens doors for colonization and cultural influence. Is there any power in the world that could compete militarily against the powers of the West? That includes the U.S., Great Britain, Canada, Germany, France, and on and on? Absolutely not. I'm sure many would point to a Chinese and Russian alliance, but that would hardly be enough.

 

[Woodrow]

I take it the title wasn't a pun on the old Doors song?

Anyway, I think when it gets right down to the point, military dominance is the key to any successful empire or civilization. That military dominance opens doors for colonization and cultural influence. Is there any power in the world that could compete militarily against the powers of the West? That includes the U.S., Great Britain, Canada, Germany, France, and on and on? Absolutely not. I'm sure many would point to a Chinese and Russian alliance, but that would hardly be enough.

Yes military strength is the door for colonization. but as history shows military dominance is expensive to uphold and since it is an expense and not a productive tool, it soon becomes too expensive to maintain and causes the fall of the very country it once served. too much expansion and too much military strength, bankrupts a country and cheats its people out of the necessities they tried to hold.

 

[Cognescenti]

it's all because of the imperialism and colonization of western country to the eastern...

we have everything here, but we support other country's economic and people.... we work here day and night unpaid, for the western people...

the old story, but change the world forever...

That is a circular argument, adeeb. You have to ask yourself how the Europeans had developed superior technologies, economic power and organizational entities to make colonialism possible in the first place.

 

[YusufNoor]

well, Fishman, i voted other; as in all is as Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aa'la has will it to be!

although i can't figure out what Door's song Keltoi is talking about...

 

[north_malaysian]

Greece is a bit odd. It is a combination of ancient and modern. I think there can be legitimate argument for calling it either. I personally view it more as Mid-eastern as the language, laws and economy do differ much from what is seen as Western.

Talking about modern Greek culture (food, traditional dress, music, dance etc.), it seems very similar to the Turks or Lebanese.... but by calling them Mid-Eastern, it is like an insult right? Furthermore, Greece is a member of EU.

Maybe we should call the Greeks as Easternized Westerns?:?